On banks making a killing with overdraft fees

[her209]

What's fucked up is that some banks apply the debits first before the credit, thereby causing overdraft fees when there wasn't one.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Did you even read the article? lol its all right there in the link.

Oh? Where in the article does it state Dave's contention, which is that banks are secretly (and illegally, judging from his "nefarious" comment) removing money from your account to force an overdraft?

If you're referring to the sorting practice, I agree it is shady but this is not what he was referring to in his post and is not currently illegal to my knowledge. I also agree with Genx that the reason the banks push the debit card so much is because it is easier to cash in on these overdrafts.

I think what he means by "nefarious programming" is exactly what the article is suggesting. It is not a person making these decisions it is a banking software/program that decides which order they get processed. And as i said in my 1st post on page 1. With our tehcnology today all transactions should be time stamped and withdrawn immediatly at point of transaction. Dont take away my personal responsibility for one over draft fee and instead hit me with three as the article mentions. Its very shady scumbaggery business practices they are using.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: soulcougher73
I think what he means by "nefarious programming" is exactly what the article is suggesting. It is not a person making these decisions it is a banking software/program that decides which order they get processed. And as i said in my 1st post on page 1. With our tehcnology today all transactions should be time stamped and withdrawn immediatly at point of transaction. Dont take away my personal responsibility for one over draft fee and instead hit me with three as the article mentions. Its very shady scumbaggery business practices they are using.

Hey, I agree with you 100%. We're on the same page. :thumbsup:

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Was the fee due to some other committment that you agreed to that you failed to fulfil?

Like what? I left $500 in a checking account and I didn't write any checks.

It's my money right or does it belong to the bank as they claimed for inactivity?

LOL - So the company that owns the storage unit should just let me keep my stuff in my storage unit if I stop fulfilling the contract/paying my rent?

 

[Pens1566]

Fail comparison. Shocker

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Was the fee due to some other committment that you agreed to that you failed to fulfil?

Like what? I left $500 in a checking account and I didn't write any checks.

It's my money right or does it belong to the bank as they claimed for inactivity?

LOL - So the company that owns the storage unit should just let me keep my stuff in my storage unit if I stop fulfilling the contract/paying my rent?

By having money in a bank it benefits the bank. The problem with can't put down the Twinkies Dave statement is Wells doesn't' charge for inactivity and he can't post proof cause he doesn't have any.

 

[Pens1566]

Wells does in fact charge if you have a certain account which requires at least 1 transfer a month .... just saying.

 

[SunnyD]

The part that irritates me is the overdraft cascade. Banks that reorder transactions in the worst possible combination in order to trigger an overdraft cascade. I've had this happen twice with two different banks, both cases resulting in some $150+ in various overdraft charges. Both times, both banks when confronted with my transaction statement versus what their computers bring up show discrepancies in how the transactions were ordered, and you always get the same explanation: "Customer facing information is not in transaction order. We process the transactions in the order they're received. This is the way the majority of the customers said they wanted it." It's bullshit.

Now regardless of the reason for the overdraft, overdraft cascades are just plain ridiculous. Overdraft protection is even worse, which ended up causing an overdraft cascade because of fees in one case for me. I made them discontinue overdraft protection on my account. Now, if there ever happens to not be enough money for a transaction, the transaction isn't honored, and no fees happen.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: yllus
In this situation it is the account holder that bears final responsibility for the fees incurred. They also have the option of taking their business elsewhere.

Bullshit

In this situation the banks have ganged together and created fees the account holder should NOT be rsponsible for as the fees could not exist of it wasn't for the criminal activity the banks have made a part of their so called business model so there is no where for people to take their business.

The truth is obviously beyond your pitiful brain to comprehend.

What do you mean bullshit?

The bank doesn't magically withdraw money from your account causing you to overdraw the account.

I guess you think banks should be 100% free?

They used to be.

Back in the day, the bank would provide free services to depositors because they knew that they could lend that same money out to creditors.

Once nearly everyone became a depositor, they decided to get more creative.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: soulcougher73

Originally posted by: tk149
It sucks, but if you can't keep track of your money, why would you expect someone else to hold your hand? Heck, when you order checks, you even get a handy dandy checkbook register. If you're overdrawn, then 99% of the time, it's your fault.

Also, the official reason that banks debit your account for the largest amount first, is because the larger amount is most likely more important. For example, would you rather have your rent/alimony check bounce, or your $5 check to the grocery store?

Having worked at a bank, and having processed overdrafts, I can say that there's quite a bit of labor involved with overdrafts. Sure, banks make money off them, but it's not like they wave a magic wand and there's no cost (or risk) involved.

The only problem with this is nothing actually bounces. They still pay it. But slam you with over draft fees. Its a very weak argument they use to justify this.

In this day and age with internet and computers every transaction should be instintanious and time stamped. There is no rearranging charges at all to benefit either party. Its pure bank bullshit.

So if the bank actually pays the overdraft, you're getting an unsecured loan. You expect to get that for free?

No, but I also do not feel I should pay 5000%+ in interest on it.

"Fees" that are automatically charged need to be included in existing usury laws. They need to be percentage based and therefore adjustable to the amount of the transaction that the fee is paid on.

Including: ATM fees, Overdraft fees, Chargeback fees, Wire Transfer fees, "Teller" fees, Online Banking fees, Telephone Banking fees, Electronic Check fees, Direct Debit fees, etc...

Not including: Mortgage / Loan application fees.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: magomago
Didn't take long for this to turn into total shit.


Anyways, here is my 2 cents - at the stage we are, banks will fight to keep overdraft if the article is indeed true. 38 bil is a lot of money, its money that no one wants to give up.

Now the compromise option would be you swipe your debit card, and then you find out you have insufficient funds. You can choose to process and take the OD hit, or you can decline it. For some people, the need the complete a certain transaction is absolutely necessary and they are willing to pay the OD fee even though they mis calculated their funds. For others, the OD Fee isn't worth whatever they want to buy.

The only are where I would support legislation is processing these transactions in a FIFO manner. If you have 1k in the account, and process 10,90,1k check....that is how they should process it. It should NOT be taken and switched around. That is lying about the order of a transaction.
On the same note, I think if you make a late transaction at night, and only put in enough money the next day, you SHOULD be hit with an OD fee. Staying consistent needs to work both way. And in cases like these, one needs to use a CREDIT CARD....
I would hope that even those that don't want to pass legislation forcing banks to not allow overdraft (IMO --> personal responsibility comes first) can agree on this point. Do not lie about when the customer preforms a transaction, and process it as such. This isn't the days where you send in checks and a check that you later wrote, depending on the post office route it took and the location you sent it to, may arrive first.

Never had OD fee, used my debit card maybe thrice in my life.

Personally, I'd like to see it where they are only allowed to charge you ONE overdraft fee for each time your account goes negative. If they choose to continue processing transactions when you have no money, that is on them...

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Was the fee due to some other committment that you agreed to that you failed to fulfil?

Like what? I left $500 in a checking account and I didn't write any checks.

It's my money right or does it belong to the bank as they claimed for inactivity?

LOL - So the company that owns the storage unit should just let me keep my stuff in my storage unit if I stop fulfilling the contract/paying my rent?

If the storage unit company is making money by renting out your shit while it is "stored", then yes, they damn well should.

 

[manowar821]

Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

Yup. Always ask to talk to a manager or get transferred to the retention department.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

New legislation

All bank overdraft fee income is applied to the federal deficiet or perhaps UHC

That'l put a stop to that shit

 

[KlokWyze]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

This is just another example that they aren't really working for customers @ all. You have to FORCE them to be decent. What sucks is that the entire industry is like this. Like bankers are exalted or honest people, quite contrary to how they were viewed relatively recently.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: JayhaVVKU

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Funny Dave, I have a Credit Union of Colorado, ING Orange and a BBVA Compass account and all of my numbers have all added up every single year. No secret conspiracy program removing my money little by little like you imply.

I seriously think you suffer from paranoia, you have all the symptoms (everyone out to get you, organizations all conspiring)

I have worked for the government in the past, if you think those people are smart enough to conspire then you are the one who is the fool. They couldn't handle 3rd grade math let alone an actual conspiracy.

You got lucky.

I used Wells Fargo when I was in Denver. After I left the state I left $500 in an account there.

6 months later they took all the money saying they had a $125 inactivity fee per month.

They even had the gall to demand another $48 to close the account.

Banks steal, period.

Well, did you read what you signed up for?

Funny how people bitch about something after they sign up for it because THEY didn't want to take the time to read the fine print.

I picture you spending hours poring over EULAs, Bank agreements, and various other contracts you receive in the mail and online. They should make one of those Budweiser "real men of genius" songs about you.

"Today we salute you, Mr. I read every word of fine print presented to me twice-over guy."

I picture you being one of those people that doesn't bother reading documents before putting their signature on them.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: manowar821
Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

I had 5 overdraft fees($35 each) within the span of less than a week in my BoA checking last year because I paid my credit card bill twice and didn't know it.

All fees were refunded within 10 minutes of me calling. :thumbsup:

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: tk149
So if the bank actually pays the overdraft, you're getting an unsecured loan. You expect to get that for free?

Two points:

What I would expect is that with a debit card, the transaction would be declined. Given that it's all automatic, with no manual involvement whatsoever, there should be no fee, just a rejected transaction. It turns out though, that the default arrangement for a debit card is to put the customer in an overdraft position -- so that the customer won't be embarassed by being told that he doesn't have the money to buy that crappy whatever that he really didn't need. And if you do request that it be changed, you'll be told that the overdraft fee will be assessed even if the transaction is declined.

As you rightly point out, an overdraft is essentially an unsecured loan...so why the double hit each time? Why do customers end up paying a $20-$35 "loan origination fee" plus elevated interest charges? Why not just charge a flat origination fee to open an unsecured line of credit then charge interest as it is used?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: tk149
So if the bank actually pays the overdraft, you're getting an unsecured loan. You expect to get that for free?

Two points:

What I would expect is that with a debit card, the transaction would be declined. Given that it's all automatic, with no manual involvement whatsoever, there should be no fee, just a rejected transaction. It turns out though, that the default arrangement for a debit card is to put the customer in an overdraft position -- so that the customer won't be embarassed by being told that he doesn't have the money to buy that crappy whatever that he really didn't need. And if you do request that it be changed, you'll be told that the overdraft fee will be assessed even if the transaction is declined.

As you rightly point out, an overdraft is essentially an unsecured loan...so why the double hit each time? Why do customers end up paying a $20-$35 "loan origination fee" plus elevated interest charges? Why not just charge a flat origination fee to open an unsecured line of credit then charge interest as it is used?

It's absolutely disgusting how much money can be made with such a flimsy excuse.

I, for one, would like to see $40 Billion Dollars per year worth of people's embarrassment posted on YouTube. That would be hilarious.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: KlokWyze

Originally posted by: manowar821
Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

This is just another example that they aren't really working for customers @ all. You have to FORCE them to be decent. What sucks is that the entire industry is like this. Like bankers are exalted or honest people, quite contrary to how they were viewed relatively recently.

Exactly.

When did they start teaching "we don't give a fuck about our customers" in business school ?

It seems to be a very common thing lately, and not just in banking / healthcare.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: KlokWyze

Originally posted by: manowar821
Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

This is just another example that they aren't really working for customers @ all. You have to FORCE them to be decent. What sucks is that the entire industry is like this. Like bankers are exalted or honest people, quite contrary to how they were viewed relatively recently.

Exactly.

When did they start teaching "we don't give a fuck about our customers" in business school ?

It seems to be a very common thing lately, and not just in banking / healthcare.

because you have to many idotic people out there like peterous that thinkt he business is right adn not gameing the system. The business know they can get away with it by saying "see its in teh TOS" wich is in tiny font hidden in a block of text.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: KlokWyze

Originally posted by: manowar821
Just recently, I had 80 dollars worth of overdraft fees on my account due to a gas-station fucking up when using my checking card. I told them I'm sick and tired of their shit, and I'll be closing the account/taking my money, and that I wouldn't be paying them the money. They reversed everything for me on the spot, and even bumped up my credit-limit. It pays to have a spine.

This is just another example that they aren't really working for customers @ all. You have to FORCE them to be decent. What sucks is that the entire industry is like this. Like bankers are exalted or honest people, quite contrary to how they were viewed relatively recently.

Exactly.

When did they start teaching "we don't give a fuck about our customers" in business school ?

It seems to be a very common thing lately, and not just in banking / healthcare.

because you have to many idotic people out there like peterous that thinkt he business is right adn not gameing the system. The business know they can get away with it by saying "see its in teh TOS" wich is in tiny font hidden in a block of text.

It's a shame that virtually nobody anymore takes pride in providing the best products and the best customer service, or takes pride in running an honest business for fair pay.

"There is one rule for the industrialist, and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible, at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

 

[Killerme33]

If banks stopped charging overdraft fees they would have to make up the $ somewhere - most likely on checking/savings fees. Be grateful that 10% of the customers are subsidizing the other 90%. Also don't let your balance get so low. If you are someone who is constantly overdrafting or in danger of it, a bank is not gonna shed too many tears if you take your business elsewhere.

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

No, but I also do not feel I should pay 5000%+ in interest on it.

"Fees" that are automatically charged need to be included in existing usury laws. They need to be percentage based and therefore adjustable to the amount of the transaction that the fee is paid on.

Including: ATM fees, Overdraft fees, Chargeback fees, Wire Transfer fees, "Teller" fees, Online Banking fees, Telephone Banking fees, Electronic Check fees, Direct Debit fees, etc...

Not including: Mortgage / Loan application fees.

I think the fees are too high, but I don't believe this needs government regulation. Some people in this thread are very happy with their credit unions. If you don't like your banks' fees, go somewhere else. Banks charge what the market will support. If they charge more, they lose customers. That simple.

Also, most of the fees you listed involve direct costs to a bank. For example, ATM fees. IIRC, banks charge each other money for ATM transactions. Why not pass the cost on to the customer? Even the Telephone Banking fees involve some cost (albeit very low per transaction). You wouldn't expect McDonalds to not charge for cooking a burger, would you?