Olmert deputy says attack on Iran 'unavoidable'

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster
I would like to know how Israel plans on attacking Iranian nuclear sites

Iranian F-14s will be a good match against Israeli F-16s
& what about all the air defense systems?

It will not be Israel who attacks Iran. It will be Israel telling the U.S to attack Iran and the U.S listening
F-22 > ALL

Those F-14s havent flown in in nearly 30 years. Even if they somehow could get parts for them on the black market. I dont think their training would allow them to fair well against the Israeli's.

Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S.

Israel has roughly 1000 aircraft in its airforce and its pilots are arguably the best trained and most skilled in the world. And pilots have to be short to fit in most cockpits and Jews generally come in XS, S, and M, resulting in a natural aviator body It would not be a close fight. You sound like Iraq claiming they would "crush" and "destroy" the american forces if they invaded.

Israel does not have 1,000 aircraft that can reach Iran, but thanks for trying.

I didn't say they did, I said they had 1000 aircraft in their air force. of those, hey have approximately 500 fighter jets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster
I would like to know how Israel plans on attacking Iranian nuclear sites

Iranian F-14s will be a good match against Israeli F-16s
& what about all the air defense systems?

It will not be Israel who attacks Iran. It will be Israel telling the U.S to attack Iran and the U.S listening
F-22 > ALL

Those F-14s havent flown in in nearly 30 years. Even if they somehow could get parts for them on the black market. I dont think their training would allow them to fair well against the Israeli's.

Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S.

Israel has roughly 1000 aircraft in its airforce and its pilots are arguably the best trained and most skilled in the world. And pilots have to be short to fit in most cockpits and Jews generally come in XS, S, and M, resulting in a natural aviator body It would not be a close fight. You sound like Iraq claiming they would "crush" and "destroy" the american forces if they invaded.

Israel does not have 1,000 aircraft that can reach Iran, but thanks for trying.

I didn't say they did, I said they had 1000 aircraft in their air force. of those, hey have approximately 500 fighter jets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force

Dude Iran and Israel are not going to go to war.

There is never going to be a war.

It is going to be 5-10 aircraft entering Iran and returning back to Israel. I don't know what dream you had where the two nations would actually have a major war.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

If they fly and if they are armed they can take out Israeli F-16s. We are not talking about a dogfight here.

The F-14s radar is what makes it dangerous and the type of missiles they can carry. There are many reports that suggest Russia upgraded their engines and even gave them missiles that have the same range as the Phoenix missiles. There are even reports Russia was given one of the F-14s in exchange for such support.

There are also reports Russia sold Iran 300 Su-30's, I guess if that is true Israel will be demolished. Reminds em of the Iraq foreign minister "Troops are not in Baghdad"

There is nothing to prove Iran has S-300 or doesn't.

However, given the fact that Iranian F-14s are flying and look better than new in their pictures one has to assume they are getting assistance. Iran also orders aircraft engines from Russia rather than fighter jets. These engines have to go somewhere.

The aircraft can be from the 1970s but it is a threat. I don't think anyone will disagree with this comment:
If Iranian F-14s are flying they are a threat to Israeli F-16s and can very likely take them out.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Obviously any plane in the air *can* be a threat, a commercial airliner could potentially take out a F16 Israel plane, the real question is how realistic that is.

As well, if you truly believe Iran propaganda, they have a few hundred Russian/Chinese plans all ready to deploy at a minutes notice. Seriously, basing your assumptions off a photograph "oh they look they are doing ok" is reaching.

You're just making a fool out of yourself.

Anyone will tell you than an F-14 is a threat to F-16s.
How the hell can you sit here and tell me "haha that is a joke. An F-16 will easily take out an F-14".
It sounds to me like you don't know what u r talking about. You can try to educate yourself or you can continue to make these claims "it is newer it must win" in every single one of ur posts.

You are trying to sit here and say "It doesn't matter what modern technology Israel has access too, Irans 30 year old fleet that is barely making it along with black marker tech will prove to be a formidable opponent". Your delusional and reaching. Iran has not had any recent real life experience (Training simulators is not the same as actual fighting experience), Iran does not have China/Russia Airforce trainers living there helping them train daily with the technology, Iran has been shopping desperately for replacement aircraft because there fleet is so decrepit. Sure there air-force was good, 30 years ago when they were still getting training and parts from the US directly. To think that this level of expertise and proficiency has continued on nearly the same level Israels training and technology has is ignorant. You might need to educate yourself on the actual capabilities of Israel's airfoce and the severe deficiency of Irans. There is a reason Iran is relying on air defense more than planes.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster
I would like to know how Israel plans on attacking Iranian nuclear sites

Iranian F-14s will be a good match against Israeli F-16s
& what about all the air defense systems?

It will not be Israel who attacks Iran. It will be Israel telling the U.S to attack Iran and the U.S listening
F-22 > ALL

Those F-14s havent flown in in nearly 30 years. Even if they somehow could get parts for them on the black market. I dont think their training would allow them to fair well against the Israeli's.

Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S.

Show me some proof of this. At best they have stripped down F-14's from the late 1970's with training from that period. Versus Israelis with F-16s and the latest electronics and vastly superior training.

Every documentary I have seen that mentions those F-14s everybody admits they would have had a hard time flying them within 2 weeks of the embargo. Which is the reason why we didnt bomb the planes on the ground. Decided to just let time take its toll. 30 years later and they are still flying them in high numbers? How high exactly? They only recieved 79 of them?

edit: I found some article talking about a resotratoin project the Iranians started in 2002. Reportedly with the help of a black market they are claiming 3 of them are flying. But with the original electronics equipment. Good luck vs a decked out 2008 F16 with Israeli training to boot.

Iranian pilots proved themselves in the Iran-Iraq War. I don't know where you got the information that Iranian pilots are not capable of taking out fighters. The Arabs sent Iraq their best pilots and aircraft. The Iranians continued to shoot them down. Israel is #2 to air-air kill ratio Iran is #3. Not that much of a difference. U.S is #1.

Iran flew at least a dozen F-14s, Mirages, Migs, Sus, etc at their little publicity stunt last month.

http://www.airliners.net/photo...iG-29UB-(9-51)/1349418
I spot 12 of them.

This is one picture out of many. There are videos all over youtube too.

Text

according to this, as of Feb 2006, Iran had 20 F-14's in service (out of 59) along with 35 MiG-29's...they also have 39 F-4 Phantoms :Q

I am sure that article knows exactly what they are talking about. Nobody knows the state of Iran's air force.

Iranian F-14s aren't even supposed to be flying.

until you can provide a link other than youtube on some numbers backing up your outlandlish claims, you are blowing some serious shit out of your ass...

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

you really think OIL PROFITS and NATURAL GAS PROFITS haven't bought SHIT YOU AND AIMSTER DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT?

Your ignorance of Irans internal politics is overwhelming.

Arrogant much?

You think the Mullahs don't know that the USA and Israel are a tremendous threat to their safety?

I hope you are right.. but if you are wrong and understimate your enemy .. then what?

Also, now that we are on topic of Natural Resources.... Who buys most of Irans NR's and are they big enough to influence us?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

If they fly and if they are armed they can take out Israeli F-16s. We are not talking about a dogfight here.

The F-14s radar is what makes it dangerous and the type of missiles they can carry. There are many reports that suggest Russia upgraded their engines and even gave them missiles that have the same range as the Phoenix missiles. There are even reports Russia was given one of the F-14s in exchange for such support.

There are also reports Russia sold Iran 300 Su-30's, I guess if that is true Israel will be demolished. Reminds em of the Iraq foreign minister "Troops are not in Baghdad"

There is nothing to prove Iran has S-300 or doesn't.

However, given the fact that Iranian F-14s are flying and look better than new in their pictures one has to assume they are getting assistance. Iran also orders aircraft engines from Russia rather than fighter jets. These engines have to go somewhere.

The aircraft can be from the 1970s but it is a threat. I don't think anyone will disagree with this comment:
If Iranian F-14s are flying they are a threat to Israeli F-16s and can very likely take them out.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Obviously any plane in the air *can* be a threat, a commercial airliner could potentially take out a F16 Israel plane, the real question is how realistic that is.

As well, if you truly believe Iran propaganda, they have a few hundred Russian/Chinese plans all ready to deploy at a minutes notice. Seriously, basing your assumptions off a photograph "oh they look they are doing ok" is reaching.

You're just making a fool out of yourself.

Anyone will tell you than an F-14 is a threat to F-16s.
How the hell can you sit here and tell me "haha that is a joke. An F-16 will easily take out an F-14".
It sounds to me like you don't know what u r talking about. You can try to educate yourself or you can continue to make these claims "it is newer it must win" in every single one of ur posts.

You are trying to sit here and say "It doesn't matter what modern technology Israel has access too, Irans 30 year old fleet that is barely making it along with black marker tech will prove to be a formidable opponent". Your delusional and reaching. Iran has not had any recent real life experience (Training simulators is not the same as actual fighting experience), Iran does not have China/Russia Airforce trainers living there helping them train daily with the technology, Iran has been shopping desperately for replacement aircraft because there fleet is so decrepit. Sure there air-force was good, 30 years ago when they were still getting training and parts from the US directly. To think that this level of expertise and proficiency has continued on nearly the same level Israels training and technology has is ignorant. You might need to educate yourself on the actual capabilities of Israel's airfoce and the severe deficiency of Irans. There is a reason Iran is relying on air defense more than planes.

All of the training required for the F-14 is inside Iran. The previous pilots could easily train the new pilots this way. Iranian F-14 pilots were one of the best and in some cases better than Israeli pilots. The fact that all the tools required to train the pilots is inside Iran is a key factor. Iran requires no help for teaching new pilots about the F-14.

When the hell did any of the current Israeli fighters have any fighting experience? Flying and bombing villages in Lebanon? That is fighting experience to you? Iran flies and bombs villages in Iraq. You for some reason think that the current Israeli pilots have actually engaged in air-air combat. Those pilots have retired.

You sound like a hillbilly who thinks Iran is a country full of camels with no cities and Israel is the most amazing country in the world and nothing a Muslim nation has could take out one of their precious F-16s. Look at your signature. Makes sense.

U.S built the F-14 and it built it good. Iran has the TOMCAT. It is a threat. I don't see how anyone could debate such a thing.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Aimster
I would like to know how Israel plans on attacking Iranian nuclear sites

Iranian F-14s will be a good match against Israeli F-16s
& what about all the air defense systems?

It will not be Israel who attacks Iran. It will be Israel telling the U.S to attack Iran and the U.S listening
F-22 > ALL

Those F-14s havent flown in in nearly 30 years. Even if they somehow could get parts for them on the black market. I dont think their training would allow them to fair well against the Israeli's.

Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S.

Show me some proof of this. At best they have stripped down F-14's from the late 1970's with training from that period. Versus Israelis with F-16s and the latest electronics and vastly superior training.

Every documentary I have seen that mentions those F-14s everybody admits they would have had a hard time flying them within 2 weeks of the embargo. Which is the reason why we didnt bomb the planes on the ground. Decided to just let time take its toll. 30 years later and they are still flying them in high numbers? How high exactly? They only recieved 79 of them?

edit: I found some article talking about a resotratoin project the Iranians started in 2002. Reportedly with the help of a black market they are claiming 3 of them are flying. But with the original electronics equipment. Good luck vs a decked out 2008 F16 with Israeli training to boot.

Iranian pilots proved themselves in the Iran-Iraq War. I don't know where you got the information that Iranian pilots are not capable of taking out fighters. The Arabs sent Iraq their best pilots and aircraft. The Iranians continued to shoot them down. Israel is #2 to air-air kill ratio Iran is #3. Not that much of a difference. U.S is #1.

Iran flew at least a dozen F-14s, Mirages, Migs, Sus, etc at their little publicity stunt last month.

http://www.airliners.net/photo...iG-29UB-(9-51)/1349418
I spot 12 of them.

This is one picture out of many. There are videos all over youtube too.

Text

according to this, as of Feb 2006, Iran had 20 F-14's in service (out of 59) along with 35 MiG-29's...they also have 39 F-4 Phantoms :Q

I am sure that article knows exactly what they are talking about. Nobody knows the state of Iran's air force.

Iranian F-14s aren't even supposed to be flying.

until you can provide a link other than youtube on some numbers backing up your outlandlish claims, you are blowing some serious shit out of your ass...

& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

you really think OIL PROFITS and NATURAL GAS PROFITS haven't bought SHIT YOU AND AIMSTER DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT?

Your ignorance of Irans internal politics is overwhelming.

Arrogant much?

You think the Mullahs don't know that the USA and Israel are a tremendous threat to their safety?

I hope you are right.. but if you are wrong and understimate your enemy .. then what?

Also, now that we are on topic of Natural Resources.... Who buys most of Irans NR's and are they big enough to influence us?

Do you think Irans leaders popularity is diminishing due to the west? or to domestic issues which are still not being resolved? What your saying is equivalent to "Why doesn't the US spend most of there dollars on defense against China!! my god!!" when the US has multiple domestic issues at home they need to resolve. Iran is actually pretty modern overall. Believe it or not, save for the crazy leader (though maybe that makes us more alike?) Iran and the US are pretty much the same overall but with different religions leading there policies.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

If they fly and if they are armed they can take out Israeli F-16s. We are not talking about a dogfight here.

The F-14s radar is what makes it dangerous and the type of missiles they can carry. There are many reports that suggest Russia upgraded their engines and even gave them missiles that have the same range as the Phoenix missiles. There are even reports Russia was given one of the F-14s in exchange for such support.

There are also reports Russia sold Iran 300 Su-30's, I guess if that is true Israel will be demolished. Reminds em of the Iraq foreign minister "Troops are not in Baghdad"

There is nothing to prove Iran has S-300 or doesn't.

However, given the fact that Iranian F-14s are flying and look better than new in their pictures one has to assume they are getting assistance. Iran also orders aircraft engines from Russia rather than fighter jets. These engines have to go somewhere.

The aircraft can be from the 1970s but it is a threat. I don't think anyone will disagree with this comment:
If Iranian F-14s are flying they are a threat to Israeli F-16s and can very likely take them out.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Obviously any plane in the air *can* be a threat, a commercial airliner could potentially take out a F16 Israel plane, the real question is how realistic that is.

As well, if you truly believe Iran propaganda, they have a few hundred Russian/Chinese plans all ready to deploy at a minutes notice. Seriously, basing your assumptions off a photograph "oh they look they are doing ok" is reaching.

You're just making a fool out of yourself.

Anyone will tell you than an F-14 is a threat to F-16s.
How the hell can you sit here and tell me "haha that is a joke. An F-16 will easily take out an F-14".
It sounds to me like you don't know what u r talking about. You can try to educate yourself or you can continue to make these claims "it is newer it must win" in every single one of ur posts.

You are trying to sit here and say "It doesn't matter what modern technology Israel has access too, Irans 30 year old fleet that is barely making it along with black marker tech will prove to be a formidable opponent". Your delusional and reaching. Iran has not had any recent real life experience (Training simulators is not the same as actual fighting experience), Iran does not have China/Russia Airforce trainers living there helping them train daily with the technology, Iran has been shopping desperately for replacement aircraft because there fleet is so decrepit. Sure there air-force was good, 30 years ago when they were still getting training and parts from the US directly. To think that this level of expertise and proficiency has continued on nearly the same level Israels training and technology has is ignorant. You might need to educate yourself on the actual capabilities of Israel's airfoce and the severe deficiency of Irans. There is a reason Iran is relying on air defense more than planes.

All of the training required for the F-14 is inside Iran. The previous pilots could easily train the new pilots this way. Iranian F-14 pilots were one of the best and in some cases better than Israeli pilots. The fact that all the tools required to train the pilots is inside Iran is a key factor. Iran requires no help for teaching new pilots about the F-14.

When the hell did any of the current Israeli fighters have any fighting experience? Flying and bombing villages in Lebanon? That is fighting experience to you? Iran flies and bombs villages in Iraq. You for some reason think that the current Israeli pilots have actually engaged in air-air combat. Those pilots have retired.

You sound like a hillbilly who thinks Iran is a country full of camels with no cities and Israel is the most amazing country in the world and nothing a Muslim nation has could take out one of their precious F-16s. Look at your signature. Makes sense.

U.S built the F-14 and it built it good. Iran has the TOMCAT. It is a threat. I don't see how anyone could debate such a thing.

You think simulators build 30 years ago counts as "modern training"?

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: Aimster
& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

are you really that deluded?

the US sold 79 F-14's nearly 30 years ago...8 years of war with Iraq and no access to new parts or modernization programs has surely taken their toll...

it would be a miracle if they even had that many (20) usable fighters today, regardless of what some random website states...

using some common sense, that number does not make the bullshit detector go off, unlike your claims that the Iran's dated airforce can tangle with Isreal's modern airforce...

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster
& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

are you really that deluded?

the US sold 79 F-14's nearly 30 years ago...8 years of war with Iraq and no access to new parts or modernization programs has surely taken their toll...

it would be a miracle if they even had that many (20) usable fighters today, regardless of what some random website states...

using some common sense, that number does not make the bullshit detector go off, unlike your claims that the Iran's dated airforce can tangle with Isreal's modern airforce...

maybe you do not read the paper.

The U.S was selling spare parts to Iran for years.
Iran ordered everything they could and stocked up.

The U.S found out and was like omgwtf and had to pass a law to stop it and ordered all F-14s destroyed.

& nowhere did I say Iran's Air Force was better than Israel's Air Force. This is what happens when people fail to read. I said Israeli F-16s entering Iran can easily be taken out by Iranian F-14s. That makes Iran's air force superior?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

If they fly and if they are armed they can take out Israeli F-16s. We are not talking about a dogfight here.

The F-14s radar is what makes it dangerous and the type of missiles they can carry. There are many reports that suggest Russia upgraded their engines and even gave them missiles that have the same range as the Phoenix missiles. There are even reports Russia was given one of the F-14s in exchange for such support.

There are also reports Russia sold Iran 300 Su-30's, I guess if that is true Israel will be demolished. Reminds em of the Iraq foreign minister "Troops are not in Baghdad"

There is nothing to prove Iran has S-300 or doesn't.

However, given the fact that Iranian F-14s are flying and look better than new in their pictures one has to assume they are getting assistance. Iran also orders aircraft engines from Russia rather than fighter jets. These engines have to go somewhere.

The aircraft can be from the 1970s but it is a threat. I don't think anyone will disagree with this comment:
If Iranian F-14s are flying they are a threat to Israeli F-16s and can very likely take them out.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Obviously any plane in the air *can* be a threat, a commercial airliner could potentially take out a F16 Israel plane, the real question is how realistic that is.

As well, if you truly believe Iran propaganda, they have a few hundred Russian/Chinese plans all ready to deploy at a minutes notice. Seriously, basing your assumptions off a photograph "oh they look they are doing ok" is reaching.

You're just making a fool out of yourself.

Anyone will tell you than an F-14 is a threat to F-16s.
How the hell can you sit here and tell me "haha that is a joke. An F-16 will easily take out an F-14".
It sounds to me like you don't know what u r talking about. You can try to educate yourself or you can continue to make these claims "it is newer it must win" in every single one of ur posts.

You are trying to sit here and say "It doesn't matter what modern technology Israel has access too, Irans 30 year old fleet that is barely making it along with black marker tech will prove to be a formidable opponent". Your delusional and reaching. Iran has not had any recent real life experience (Training simulators is not the same as actual fighting experience), Iran does not have China/Russia Airforce trainers living there helping them train daily with the technology, Iran has been shopping desperately for replacement aircraft because there fleet is so decrepit. Sure there air-force was good, 30 years ago when they were still getting training and parts from the US directly. To think that this level of expertise and proficiency has continued on nearly the same level Israels training and technology has is ignorant. You might need to educate yourself on the actual capabilities of Israel's airfoce and the severe deficiency of Irans. There is a reason Iran is relying on air defense more than planes.

All of the training required for the F-14 is inside Iran. The previous pilots could easily train the new pilots this way. Iranian F-14 pilots were one of the best and in some cases better than Israeli pilots. The fact that all the tools required to train the pilots is inside Iran is a key factor. Iran requires no help for teaching new pilots about the F-14.

When the hell did any of the current Israeli fighters have any fighting experience? Flying and bombing villages in Lebanon? That is fighting experience to you? Iran flies and bombs villages in Iraq. You for some reason think that the current Israeli pilots have actually engaged in air-air combat. Those pilots have retired.

You sound like a hillbilly who thinks Iran is a country full of camels with no cities and Israel is the most amazing country in the world and nothing a Muslim nation has could take out one of their precious F-16s. Look at your signature. Makes sense.

U.S built the F-14 and it built it good. Iran has the TOMCAT. It is a threat. I don't see how anyone could debate such a thing.

You think simulators build 30 years ago counts as "modern training"?

An F-14 can take out a target over 100 miles away.
It is an interceptor

An F-16 is not an interceptor

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster
& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

are you really that deluded?

the US sold 79 F-14's nearly 30 years ago...8 years of war with Iraq and no access to new parts or modernization programs has surely taken their toll...

it would be a miracle if they even had that many (20) usable fighters today, regardless of what some random website states...

using some common sense, that number does not make the bullshit detector go off, unlike your claims that the Iran's dated airforce can tangle with Isreal's modern airforce...

well if he's insinuating that the published reports are false, then that means Iran is not disclosing the actual numbers in their airforce which is yet another shadowy secretive reason not to trust them.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster
& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

are you really that deluded?

the US sold 79 F-14's nearly 30 years ago...8 years of war with Iraq and no access to new parts or modernization programs has surely taken their toll...

it would be a miracle if they even had that many (20) usable fighters today, regardless of what some random website states...

using some common sense, that number does not make the bullshit detector go off, unlike your claims that the Iran's dated airforce can tangle with Isreal's modern airforce...

well if he's insinuating that the published reports are false, then that means Iran is not disclosing the actual numbers in their airforce which is yet another shadowy secretive reason not to trust them.

I am not saying they are right/wrong.
Nobody knows what Iran has. You can only tell by their pictures.

20 F-14s is plenty to stop 5-10 F-16s coming to attack a nuclear plant.

I am not talking about Israel Air Force versus Iran's Air Force. The only Air Force that is on par with Israel's in the M.E is Turkey.

 

[RichardE]

--snipped massive quote nest---

An F-14 can take out a target over 100 miles away.
It is an interceptor

An F-16 is not an interceptor

You do realize the Iran aircrafts are the A models? Not to mention the F14 has a massive radar signature. I'm not saying that they would not be a threat, I'm saying your assumption of them giving Israel a run for there money is unwarranted, not to mention the assumption that these planes will even make it out of the hangers.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster
& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

are you really that deluded?

the US sold 79 F-14's nearly 30 years ago...8 years of war with Iraq and no access to new parts or modernization programs has surely taken their toll...

it would be a miracle if they even had that many (20) usable fighters today, regardless of what some random website states...

using some common sense, that number does not make the bullshit detector go off, unlike your claims that the Iran's dated airforce can tangle with Isreal's modern airforce...

well if he's insinuating that the published reports are false, then that means Iran is not disclosing the actual numbers in their airforce which is yet another shadowy secretive reason not to trust them.

I am not saying they are right/wrong.
Nobody knows what Iran has. You can only tell by their pictures.

20 F-14s is plenty to stop 5-10 F-16s coming to attack a nuclear plant.

I am not talking about Israel Air Force versus Iran's Air Force. The only Air Force that is on par with Israel's in the M.E is Turkey.

Iraq ran with 16 planes to bomb Iraq's reactor again an air force that was negligible as well a target that was in the open. They will obviously bring many more planes this time to complete the needed 'hit every target at once" scenario.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: tvarad
Aimster:

"Iranian F-14s fly and they fly in high numbers. Iran has stockpiled on spare parts and has gotten Russian assistance.

The U.S installed all their training for the F-14 inside Iran. The simulations and everything are inside Iran not in the U.S."

When well-maintained, modern U.S. planes themselves are under stress, I don't see how '70s era airplanes maintained with junkyard spares are going to be much of a threat. Remember that these planes have also been through the Iran-Iraq war, thus it's doubtful if they're in any condition to match what Israel has.

If they fly and if they are armed they can take out Israeli F-16s. We are not talking about a dogfight here.

The F-14s radar is what makes it dangerous and the type of missiles they can carry. There are many reports that suggest Russia upgraded their engines and even gave them missiles that have the same range as the Phoenix missiles. There are even reports Russia was given one of the F-14s in exchange for such support.

There are also reports Russia sold Iran 300 Su-30's, I guess if that is true Israel will be demolished. Reminds em of the Iraq foreign minister "Troops are not in Baghdad"

There is nothing to prove Iran has S-300 or doesn't.

However, given the fact that Iranian F-14s are flying and look better than new in their pictures one has to assume they are getting assistance. Iran also orders aircraft engines from Russia rather than fighter jets. These engines have to go somewhere.

The aircraft can be from the 1970s but it is a threat. I don't think anyone will disagree with this comment:
If Iranian F-14s are flying they are a threat to Israeli F-16s and can very likely take them out.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Obviously any plane in the air *can* be a threat, a commercial airliner could potentially take out a F16 Israel plane, the real question is how realistic that is.

As well, if you truly believe Iran propaganda, they have a few hundred Russian/Chinese plans all ready to deploy at a minutes notice. Seriously, basing your assumptions off a photograph "oh they look they are doing ok" is reaching.

You're just making a fool out of yourself.

Anyone will tell you than an F-14 is a threat to F-16s.
How the hell can you sit here and tell me "haha that is a joke. An F-16 will easily take out an F-14".
It sounds to me like you don't know what u r talking about. You can try to educate yourself or you can continue to make these claims "it is newer it must win" in every single one of ur posts.

You are trying to sit here and say "It doesn't matter what modern technology Israel has access too, Irans 30 year old fleet that is barely making it along with black marker tech will prove to be a formidable opponent". Your delusional and reaching. Iran has not had any recent real life experience (Training simulators is not the same as actual fighting experience), Iran does not have China/Russia Airforce trainers living there helping them train daily with the technology, Iran has been shopping desperately for replacement aircraft because there fleet is so decrepit. Sure there air-force was good, 30 years ago when they were still getting training and parts from the US directly. To think that this level of expertise and proficiency has continued on nearly the same level Israels training and technology has is ignorant. You might need to educate yourself on the actual capabilities of Israel's airfoce and the severe deficiency of Irans. There is a reason Iran is relying on air defense more than planes.

All of the training required for the F-14 is inside Iran. The previous pilots could easily train the new pilots this way. Iranian F-14 pilots were one of the best and in some cases better than Israeli pilots. The fact that all the tools required to train the pilots is inside Iran is a key factor. Iran requires no help for teaching new pilots about the F-14.

When the hell did any of the current Israeli fighters have any fighting experience? Flying and bombing villages in Lebanon? That is fighting experience to you? Iran flies and bombs villages in Iraq. You for some reason think that the current Israeli pilots have actually engaged in air-air combat. Those pilots have retired.

You sound like a hillbilly who thinks Iran is a country full of camels with no cities and Israel is the most amazing country in the world and nothing a Muslim nation has could take out one of their precious F-16s. Look at your signature. Makes sense.

U.S built the F-14 and it built it good. Iran has the TOMCAT. It is a threat. I don't see how anyone could debate such a thing.

You think simulators build 30 years ago counts as "modern training"?

An F-14 can take out a target over 100 miles away.
It is an interceptor

An F-16 is not an interceptor

You do realize the Iran aircrafts are the A models? Not to mention the F14 has a massive radar signature. I'm not saying that they would not be a threat, I'm saying your assumption of them giving Israel a run for there money is unwarranted, not to mention the assumption that these planes will even make it out of the hangers.

Yes they are the A model and they could still take out multiple targets with the A model radars at a long distance. It is an excellent aircraft.

You are suggesting they are pure crap because they are A models.

Can an Israeli F-16i take out multiple targets 100 miles away without the help of an AWACS ? You seem to know tell me.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Originally posted by: Aimster
& you can prove how some random website who nobody has ever heard of knows about Iran's air force capabilities.

Do they have a spy?

are you really that deluded?

the US sold 79 F-14's nearly 30 years ago...8 years of war with Iraq and no access to new parts or modernization programs has surely taken their toll...

it would be a miracle if they even had that many (20) usable fighters today, regardless of what some random website states...

using some common sense, that number does not make the bullshit detector go off, unlike your claims that the Iran's dated airforce can tangle with Isreal's modern airforce...

well if he's insinuating that the published reports are false, then that means Iran is not disclosing the actual numbers in their airforce which is yet another shadowy secretive reason not to trust them.

I am not saying they are right/wrong.
Nobody knows what Iran has. You can only tell by their pictures.

20 F-14s is plenty to stop 5-10 F-16s coming to attack a nuclear plant.

I am not talking about Israel Air Force versus Iran's Air Force. The only Air Force that is on par with Israel's in the M.E is Turkey.

Iraq ran with 16 planes to bomb Iraq's reactor again an air force that was negligible as well a target that was in the open. They will obviously bring many more planes this time to complete the needed 'hit every target at once" scenario.

Yes, I am sure that is not going to light up on radar. Iran must be very close to Israel for Israel to be able to pull off this operation with all those aircraft and go unnoticed.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
An Attack on Iran b Israel will make everyone rethink their strategic alliances which may lead a major regional war. I for one would support fully my country if it declared war on Israel as retaliation to an attack by it on Iran.

Look at it this way;

With the worlds track record on countries that have obtained nuclear energy then progressed to weapons, and Iran's track record of doing what they want, it is not a question of if Iran will the question is when.

The world does not need any more nuclear weaponized countries, it does not need to have the Middle East destabilized any more than it is and sure as hell does not need a nuclear arms race triggered in that region all of which will happen if Iran goes nuclear.

No matter how much you hate Israel or how deserved you think Iran is of obtaining nuclear weapons allowing a nuclear Iran is an insane idea and the reprocussions from it would dwarf any made by the continued existence of Israel.

 

[badkarma1399]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
An Attack on Iran b Israel will make everyone rethink their strategic alliances which may lead a major regional war. I for one would support fully my country if it declared war on Israel as retaliation to an attack by it on Iran.

Look at it this way;

With the worlds track record on countries that have obtained nuclear energy then progressed to weapons, and Iran's track record of doing what they want, it is not a question of if Iran will the question is when.

The world does not need any more nuclear weaponized countries, it does not need to have the Middle East destabilized any more than it is and sure as hell does not need a nuclear arms race triggered in that region all of which will happen if Iran goes nuclear.

No matter how much you hate Israel or how deserved you think Iran is of obtaining nuclear weapons allowing a nuclear Iran is an insane idea and the reprocussions from it would dwarf any made by the continued existence of Israel.

While I completely agree with the bolded part, IMO this includes Israel. Even though I'm American, there is a part of me that wants Iran to have nuclear weapons. Maybe if they did, Israel and the west would f*** off with their warmongering. I'm sick of it and want nothing to do with their bickering.

 

[jpeyton]

Have fun Israel, just don't get us involved.

Originally posted by: Socio
Iran's track record of doing what they want, it is not a question of if Iran will the question is when.

Yet you completely ignore Iran's track record of not starting wars.

 

[extra]

I can see and can't say I blame Israel for doing this because of all the craziness from the Iranian president (yes I know he doesn't wield the real power).

I can see Iran retaliating massively somehow too, and I can't say I blame them either--their populace may demand it. ;

God there hasta be another way to fix this than all hell breaking loose.

Pray for a new Iranian president to settle things down perhaps. That's the best thing I can see at the moment. Someone to drastically change positions and the climate of fear and hate.

 

[Jhhnn]

I thought the burden of proof was with the accuser- in this case, the Israelis. Merely stating that the Iranians have a nuclear weapons program doesn't make it so, no matter how many times the charge is repeated.

Anybody prepared to offer any? And, uhh, no, Iran's enrichment program doesn't qualify, given that it's under the IAEA microscope...

The Iranians aren't fools, either, and staging a nuclear attack against the Israelis would make no sense whatsoever, given the Israelis' ability to retaliate several times over, not to mention the world's only superpower covering the Israelis' back...

I think we all need to realize that an Israeli attack against Iran would necessarily involve American complicity- Israeli aircraft, even with inflight refueling, simply can't penetrate Iranian Airspace w/o passing thru the US radar net that extends from north of Turkey to south of the cape of Oman, and all across the Persian gulf... employing both ground based and awacs radars.

No amount of Israeli saber-rattling can change that, so, uhh, are we really ready to engage in an expanded conflict in the region, to open a can o' worms that would make Iraq look like a picnic?

All in the name of "anticipatory self-defense" ( what a magnificent load of horseshit) from the Israelis? Because the Iranians said bad things?

 

[magomago]

Skipping the most likely retarded argument that egnaged...

this is ridiculous and shows israel is the one that is the aggressor. any fool knows that a) Iran has real energy problems regardless of weapons and b) the regime wants to STAY in power and NOT use them. Even all the rhetoric Ahmed spouts (MIS translated rhetoric) is just that, rhetoric. They want a defensive deterrent, and a nuke is a very credible one.
In case no one is aware - there is this thing for countries and their governments to always point out how we were the only ones who ever nuked someone else. No one wants to join that country in the pages of history as number 2. Terrorist groups don't count, and the Iranian govt isn't one that would handle over weapons.

Anyways - this is pure aggression by the Israelis and God damn our OWN government for allowing this fucked up situation in the Mid East from continuing. We need to change this approach, we need to become fair about it and fix a lot of these problems. We HAVE to be better than this

 

[piasabird]

Isreal is surrounded by Lebanon and Syria and both of them are full of Terrorists funded by the Iranians and you want to blame Isreal for defending itself. Rockets are landing in Isreal fired by these Iranian funded terrorists every day. Then this Idiot in Iran, A-Dumb-A-Nut-A-Job, says he plans on destroying Isreal. How can any sane person blame Isreal for anything they do? During the last big attack from Lebanon I could not understand why Isreal did not attack Iran. Everyone knows the Hezbolah are funded by Iran, so Isreal should have attacked the Country Funding the Terrorists.