• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Oklahoma state trooper shoots unarmed man in the back

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
She told him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back. He doesnt, he resists, he fights her then tries to run off. Deserved to get shot IMO.
So you condone rogue police work? It's against police SOP. It's that simple.

Thank god for the real media alternative. It actually works. I still have RM on here from my AOL escapade and even that crap couldn't run its own video. I hate RM.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
She told him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back. He doesnt, he resists, he fights her then tries to run off. Deserved to get shot IMO.
So you condone rogue police work? It's against police SOP. It's that simple.

Thank god for the real media alternative. It actually works. I still have RM on here from my AOL escapade and even that crap couldn't run its own video. I hate RM.
I condone not fvcking with the person with the badge and gun. He could have EASILY gotten in his truck and fled and caused a accident with burning mangled vehicles and screaming babies trapped inside. And maybe even hit a tranker truck filled with petroleum which would have burst into flame or something.

 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
I condone not fvcking with the person with the badge and gun. He could have EASILY gotten in his truck and fled and caused a accident with burning mangled vehicles and screaming babies trapped inside. And maybe even hit a tranker truck filled with petroleum which would have burst into flame or something.
Those are all maybes. Fact is she's a bad cop, and the police force shouldn't have people like her. The police force has rules and she doesn't follow them. That makes her a bad cop, and bad cops shouldn't be on the force. For starters her language is atrocious and pathetically unprofessional. She also sounds like a whiney bitch.

She even tells him to watch his mouth when he swears once. The nerve!

You can't shoot somebody because they refuse to put their hands behind their back! She should have tried to either wrestle him at that point, or just taken out her baton and beaten on him a few times for good measure (cause he was a jackass), but you can't shoot somebody because they disobey you. He didn't threaten her in the least, so shooting was unwarranted.
 

mcveigh

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2000
6,468
6
81
she was an amatuer, she kept cussing then told him to watch his language ....

she should have called for backup a log time ago. she kept threating to shoot him. do they have pepper spray?
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: TechnoKid
There's corruption at its finest
It has nothing at all to do with corruption. You might want to peruse dictionary.com before making such a statement.
Corruption: n 1: lack of integrity or honesty

Integrity: n. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.

Oh I don't know. Putting an incompetent officer on the force, and then covering for her after she kills someone doesn't seem to adhere to either the ethical and moral code I'd expect out of law enforcement officers or any sense of honesty. Nor does covering for her seem particularly honest or ethical. I'd say that word fits.

You might want to take your own advice?

Edit: I'm a few minutes late with this I see. Oh well.
It had nothing to do with corruption. There has to be an outside influence or GAIN for it to be corruption. It's not just the loss of integrity. It has to be due to an outside force that compels someone(via gain) to do an act. How did she gain anything? Part of a definition is not the WHOLE meaning of the word.
*sigh* Couldn't you have just posted this inside that uber double post instead of making me respond to two almost identical posts?

Anyway, you said that part of a definition is not the whole meaning which is true. I notice you didn't bother to post the whole definition though. I'll do that.

n 1: lack of integrity or honesty; esp susceptibility to bribery; use of a position of trust for dishonest gain
Now, you said there HAS to be an outside influence or GAIN. I don't see where it says that here. It says "especially susceptibility to bribery" but it does not seem to say that is a key component. A very likely one of course but, according to the definition, essential

Edit: I also should say that I wasn't saying that she was corrupt but rather whoever pushed her through the program and also whoever is covering up for her and sheltering her from, at very least, the firing she deserves.
i agree with mill. it isn't corruption because it is required by federal law. sucks.

that's when the people should be able to step in and change the laws. unfortunately where AA is concerned the will of the majority seems to be irrelevant.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I condone not fvcking with the person with the badge and gun. He could have EASILY gotten in his truck and fled and caused a accident with burning mangled vehicles and screaming babies trapped inside. And maybe even hit a tranker truck filled with petroleum which would have burst into flame or something.
Those are all maybes. Fact is she's a bad cop, and the police force shouldn't have people like her. The police force has rules and she doesn't follow them. That makes her a bad cop, and bad cops shouldn't be on the force. For starters her language is atrocious and pathetically unprofessional. She also sounds like a whiney bitch.

She even tells him to watch his mouth when he swears once. The nerve!

You can't shoot somebody because they refuse to put their hands behind their back! She should have tried to either wrestle him at that point, or just taken out her baton and beaten on him a few times for good measure (cause he was a jackass), but you can't shoot somebody because they disobey you. He didn't threaten her in the least, so shooting was unwarranted.

I'll agree her language was completely uncalled for and completely unproffesional. But, I think (In my perfect world mind you) that if you make any unwarrented attempts at harm or escape while dealing with the police, they have every right to gun you down right where you stand. Because, truth be told I'm freaking TIRED of the entire justice system. Rapists get out in 2 years on good behavior, cops cant do this or that because procedure doesnt call for it thus they have to endanger themselves and others needlessly. I'm freaking tired of the criminal having more rights then the police and common citizens.
Again, its all my opinion and I'm not gonna get in some big flame war about it. Now, if she had gfunned him down using her whole clip into his head....Different story. But, she fired her gun once in a non killing shot to apprehend the subject. Now, while she as a whole is a pretty piss poor cop I wont say shes piss poor based on how she apprehended him but rather by her general manner overall.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,091
7,473
126
Even if you don't include the shooting, that tape is shocking because of her incompetence. She could have put the kid at ease and made the arrest MUCH more smooth than it was. Instead of immediately trying to cuff him after yelling at him for 10 minutes straight, she should have invited him back into her car and put him at ease rather than making him a nervous wreck. I've seen it done before. Plus her overuse of foul language is completely unprofessional and the way she treats him is just asking for him to resist. Hell, If I was treated like that *I* would be a nervous wreck, too.

AFTER her failure to put him at ease, she should have stepped back and called for backup when he started struggling rather than shooting him out of anger.

She has serious anger and stress issues and should have NEVER become a police officer.

You'll see me side with the cops in the vast majority of cases, but not this one. She NEVER should have passed the academy, much less been hired on as an officer.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: Amused
Even if you don't include the shooting, that tape is shocking because of her incompetence. She could have put the kid at ease and made the arrest MUCH more smooth than it was. Instead of immediately trying to cuff him after yelling at him for 10 minutes straight, she should have invited him back into her car and put him at ease rather than making him a nervous wreck. I've seen it done before. Plus her overuse of foul language is completely unprofessional and the way she treats him is just asking for him to resist. Hell, If I was treated like that *I* would be a nervous wreck, too.

AFTER her failure to put him at ease, she should have stepped back and called for backup when he started struggling rather than shooting him out of anger.

She has serious anger and stress issues and should have NEVER become a police officer.

You'll see me side with the cops in the vast majority of cases, but not this one. She NEVER should have passed the academy, much less been hired on as an officer.
makes you wonder. if the state of oklahoma found her fit to hire, what other incompetent minorities they'd be willing to put out there just to meet their quota.

i can see the AA is bad viewpoint, but you can't blame it all on AA, the department that hired her should take some heat also.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,091
7,473
126
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Amused
Even if you don't include the shooting, that tape is shocking because of her incompetence. She could have put the kid at ease and made the arrest MUCH more smooth than it was. Instead of immediately trying to cuff him after yelling at him for 10 minutes straight, she should have invited him back into her car and put him at ease rather than making him a nervous wreck. I've seen it done before. Plus her overuse of foul language is completely unprofessional and the way she treats him is just asking for him to resist. Hell, If I was treated like that *I* would be a nervous wreck, too.

AFTER her failure to put him at ease, she should have stepped back and called for backup when he started struggling rather than shooting him out of anger.

She has serious anger and stress issues and should have NEVER become a police officer.

You'll see me side with the cops in the vast majority of cases, but not this one. She NEVER should have passed the academy, much less been hired on as an officer.
makes you wonder. if the state of oklahoma found her fit to hire, what other incompetent minorities they'd be willing to put out there just to meet their quota.

i can see the AA is bad viewpoint, but you can't blame it all on AA, the department that hired her should take some heat also.
While I am anti-AA, I think this has less to do with AA itself, and more to do with bad management. You cannot tell me that the AA program could not have found a better candidate in all of OK.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
1
0
Originally posted by: Mill
All you have to do is watch.

All I can say as a CJ student and someone who wants to go into Law Enforcement was that she was 100% wrong. People on the officer.com message boards are outraged that she was not fired for this incident. A few OK state troopers said that was known to be a threat before she completed training, and that they campaigned against her hire. Not only that, but she attempted to quit the academy three times, but the brass begged her to stay because she would be the first Black female officer they had. Not only that, but she failed parts of the academy, and when she passed her FTO during training wanted to fail her. Unfortunately, she leaves a big black eye on anyone who believes in competent police work, and leaves a bigger black eye on her department. She was reassigned to other duties and will NOT be charged with a crime.
Reminds me of the case that happened while I was in Seattle. If I recall the incident correctly, a female officer was trying to handcuff a guy who was much larger than she was. He basically brushed her off and started to walk away, some say he made a comment how she shouldn't be trying to do a man's work. He was unarmed and walking away, and she pulled her gun and shot him in the back. It's not an argument against women as cops so much as it is enforcing a standard of ability in everyone. I went to school with guys that would have been brushed off like that too, and I wouldn't want them as a cop either. If you can't pull your weight, try a different line of work, or at least call for back-up.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
ATOT certainly makes me laugh.
1) You guys wanna electrify anyone who drives drunk.
2) A cop pulls over a drunk driver, then non lethally shoots him to keep him from fleeing into his vehicle and endangering others. You guys wanna electrify her too.

Gee, lets have our cake and eat it to shall we? So, drunk driving is bad, and keeping people from driving drunk by any non lethal means is bad too... :confused:

One thing is for sure, I'll NEVER understand ATOT! :D
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
My 2 cents:

1.) What a stupid officer, She knew she was on tape
2.) I don't know enough about arrest, etc to say if the shooting was justified.
3.) State of OK will lose a crapload of money just because of the way she acted, spoke on tape.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,091
7,473
126
Originally posted by: Shockwave
ATOT certainly makes me laugh.
1) You guys wanna electrify anyone who drives drunk.
2) A cop pulls over a drunk driver, then non lethally shoots him to keep him from fleeing into his vehicle and endangering others. You guys wanna electrify her too.

Gee, lets have our cake and eat it to shall we? So, drunk driving is bad, and keeping people from driving drunk by any non lethal means is bad too... :confused:

One thing is for sure, I'll NEVER understand ATOT! :D
1) I've never wanted to execute drunk drivers.

2) I've never advocated lethal force by a police officer when their own life or the lives of other is not immediately threatened.

3) Shooting is NOT "non-lethal." She's just as bad a shot as she is a cop, that's all. Shew could have just as easily have killed him.
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Now thats funny. Truly. Maybe others think its wrong, and I dont wanna get in a big argument, but I think its perfect. Maybe if they play it on TV it'll keep dillweeds from being...Well, dillweeds, and just do twhat the person with the badge and gun says.

In *MY* (And note the MY) opinion, if you dont dot your I's and cross your T's with the "nice" officer they have every right to use deadly force. She told him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back. He doesnt, he resists, he fights her then tries to run off. Deserved to get shot IMO.
One. The cop acted totaly innapropriately throughout the entire event. Second her shooting the guy in his back while unarmed, when she was NEVER IN DANGER, is illegal and she should be charged with crimes.

I jumped to a conclusion, but the point still remains. She acted improperly through the entire "arrest" her using a gun, is more than excessive force.
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Originally posted by: Skoorb
She told him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back. He doesnt, he resists, he fights her then tries to run off. Deserved to get shot IMO.
So you condone rogue police work? It's against police SOP. It's that simple.

Thank god for the real media alternative. It actually works. I still have RM on here from my AOL escapade and even that crap couldn't run its own video. I hate RM.
I condone not fvcking with the person with the badge and gun. He could have EASILY gotten in his truck and fled and caused a accident with burning mangled vehicles and screaming babies trapped inside. And maybe even hit a tranker truck filled with petroleum which would have burst into flame or something.
Dude she was the one acting IMPROPERLY THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE EVENT. Her actions caused all the problems, and to top it all off she MURDERED THE GUY. Thats what it ammounts to, she was NEVER in danger. She shot the guy in the back, he was unarmed. Theres no question if a white cop did this not only would he be fired immediately, he would be charged with all sorts of things.
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Shockwave
ATOT certainly makes me laugh.
1) You guys wanna electrify anyone who drives drunk.
2) A cop pulls over a drunk driver, then non lethally shoots him to keep him from fleeing into his vehicle and endangering others. You guys wanna electrify her too.

Gee, lets have our cake and eat it to shall we? So, drunk driving is bad, and keeping people from driving drunk by any non lethal means is bad too... :confused:

One thing is for sure, I'll NEVER understand ATOT! :D
1) I've never wanted to execute drunk drivers.

2) I've never advocated lethal force by a police officer when their own life or the lives of other is not immediately threatened.

3) Shooting is NOT "non-lethal." She's just as bad a shot as she is a cop, that's all. Shew could have just as easily have killed him.
1) Well, maybe not kill per se, but theres a HUGE hatred of drunk drivers on ATOT.

2) Just because you use a gun doesnt mean its lethal force.

3) You can shoot someone in the ass with little worry of killing them, especially with a 9mm (Standard police issue)

But yes, she IS a bad cop, I wont argue that particular point

 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,626
3
81
Independent of the shooting itself, it seems as though the way she acted throughout the entire incident was inappropriate and unprofessional.

Cheers!
Nate
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,091
7,473
126
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Shockwave
ATOT certainly makes me laugh.
1) You guys wanna electrify anyone who drives drunk.
2) A cop pulls over a drunk driver, then non lethally shoots him to keep him from fleeing into his vehicle and endangering others. You guys wanna electrify her too.

Gee, lets have our cake and eat it to shall we? So, drunk driving is bad, and keeping people from driving drunk by any non lethal means is bad too... :confused:

One thing is for sure, I'll NEVER understand ATOT! :D
1) I've never wanted to execute drunk drivers.

2) I've never advocated lethal force by a police officer when their own life or the lives of other is not immediately threatened.

3) Shooting is NOT "non-lethal." She's just as bad a shot as she is a cop, that's all. Shew could have just as easily have killed him.
1) Well, maybe not kill per se, but theres a HUGE hatred of drunk drivers on ATOT.

2) Just because you use a gun doesnt mean its lethal force.

3) You can shoot someone in the ass with little worry of killing them, especially with a 9mm (Standard police issue)

But yes, she IS a bad cop, I wont argue that particular point
Use of a firearm with normal ammunition is ALWAYS considered use of lethal force. No one has good enough aim to control exactly where the bullet enters, and even a shot in the arm or leg can sever an artery and cause death within a minute.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Use of a firearm with normal ammunition is ALWAYS considered use of lethal force. No one has good enough aim to control exactly where the bullet enters, and even a shot in the arm or leg can sever an artery and cause death within a minute.
You are right. Cops, even good ones, are not trained to give non-lethal shots at a person, because a bullet can always kill somebody even if it's plenty far from any vital organs, thanks to blood loss and surgical complications or infection. On a movie you see people shoot a person in the shoulder to wing them but in real life police are trained to not even try; if they are going to fire, it's shoot to kill. So, essentially she was trying to kill this guy (although that presumes that she was going by standard training, which we see her she wasn't!).

As mentioned above, if you can't subdue a suspect like this guy without using a gun, you should not be a cop. I don't cry for this guy, because he was a jackass, but a scrawny guy like that who presents little to no threat, and she can't even arrest him? That's pitiful. The second he tried resisting arrest she should have been calling for backup, and she never tried using pepper spray or her baton. She just went right for the gun. What in hell was she thinking? She should have criminal charges brought against her.

And yes I still think the guy was a jackass. He should probably be charged with resisting arrest, at least.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
27,283
1,337
126
ok, what am i missing?

it's a 12 min video. i skipped to the 1/2 way point (6min).

what did she do wrong? it looked like he didnt follow her orders. and where was the shooting? i didnt see it.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
She told him repeatedly to put his hands behind his back. He doesnt, he resists, he fights her then tries to run off. Deserved to get shot IMO.
So you condone rogue police work? It's against police SOP. It's that simple.

Thank god for the real media alternative. It actually works. I still have RM on here from my AOL escapade and even that crap couldn't run its own video. I hate RM.
If it were me I would also have a hard time complying with that after all the stuff this lady put him through....it's amazing that poor guy didn't start hyperventalating.

If I were him I'd be thinking as soon as the cuffs were on me I'd be toast.

She also has a habit of moving the person off camera a lot.

Affirmative Action is proven time and time again to put the wrong people into jobs. Sad fact is if you don't want to cry RACISM, you can't cry based on RACE you need to hire someone or they deserve an 'easier' test.

Å
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY