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Oklahoma state trooper shoots unarmed man in the back

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digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: JEDI
ok, what am i missing?

it's a 12 min video. i skipped to the 1/2 way point (6min).

what did she do wrong? it looked like he didnt follow her orders. and where was the shooting? i didnt see it.
Independent of the shooting itself, it seems as though the way she acted throughout the entire incident was inappropriate and unprofessional.
The way she acted was unprofessional and uncalled for, and it is likely why the guy acted the way he did. If she didnt act the way she did, its likely there wouldnt have been any problems.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
54,081
7,451
126
Originally posted by: JEDI
ok, what am i missing?

it's a 12 min video. i skipped to the 1/2 way point (6min).

what did she do wrong? it looked like he didnt follow her orders. and where was the shooting? i didnt see it.
Watch the entire video. The officer is completely unprofessional and handles the suspect in a manner that just BEGS for them to resist.
 

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
at one point she HAD him in the car and calmed down (at least calm sounding). and then pulled him out and the situation escalated again. and if i hear anyone going "i got my gun out! i'm gonna shoot you right now!" i'm gonna start freaking out, drunk or sober. especially after being talked to like she was talking to him. however, she did attempt to calm him down (altho she had a gun out and was threatening to shoot him while trying to "calm" him). i dunno, she's obviously incompetent and shouldn't be carrying a gun, but at the same time the guy was acting kinda strange. i guess if it was a male cop he might have more easily overpowered the guy without resorting to using a gun. i think once i had the guy in the car and acting calm i would have called for backup.

i'd also have to agree that if it was a white cop and a black guy everyone in the world would be screaming racist shooting and jesse would be on the first flight to oklahoma, but that's just how the world works these days.

oh and to those who haven't watched the video, you have no real room to comment at all. even the summaries can't really show you what the video clearly does, someone that shouldn't be doing the job they are doing. if your comment starts with "i won't use real player" then you might as well just stop posting.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Administrator
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
162
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
1. someone mentioned llama pay... I don't know about Okla, but in NY, State Troopers *start* at 48-49K per year... that's pretty good.

2. Someone please tell me that was filmed by some amateur video people... There can't possibly be someone that bad who is hired for law enforcement...
 

GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
6,986
0
0
Incompetence of the highest order.

A jury will decide if it was a crime. I would go with guilty, based on the vid...:disgust:
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
17,848
24
81
Even if you don't include the shooting, that tape is shocking because of her incompetence. She could have put the kid at ease and made the arrest MUCH more smooth than it was. Instead of immediately trying to cuff him after yelling at him for 10 minutes straight, she should have invited him back into her car and put him at ease rather than making him a nervous wreck. I've seen it done before.
Her inability to control the situation any other way but overreaction is not uncommon with police officers who are physically inferior than most of the suspects they will find themselves having to deal with. I have no problem with females being police officers or firemen, if they are able to meet the physical demands of the job.

When you're physically at a disadvantage over most of the potential suspects you might have to wrestle around with, there are few realistic options but to immediately escalate the level of force far beyond what a physically capable officer would (and should) need to gain and keep control. I understand there are suspects so large and strong that even a very large male officer would be at a disadvantage, but you have to consider the average population size and average situation, not the extremes.

Time and again we have seen female officers utterly incapable of maintaining the upper hand in physical confrontations with average-sized suspects and having no other choice but to immediately escalate the level of force far beyond what a more physically capable officer would (and should) need, call for backup, or just step back and let the men do the job.

I remember when no Michigan State Trooper was less than 6' tall, most being taller. When you saw a very large 220+lb Trooper enter a bar to take a complaint, it instantly commanded respect and few people dared be mouthy or uncooperative. I've also seen two female officers come into the same bar to field a complaint, and received little else but sneers and insults.
 

trek

Senior member
Dec 13, 2000
982
0
71
Originally posted by: DrPizza
1. someone mentioned llama pay... I don't know about Okla, but in NY, State Troopers *start* at 48-49K per year... that's pretty good.

2. Someone please tell me that was filmed by some amateur video people... There can't possibly be someone that bad who is hired for law enforcement...
the camera is mounted in the car
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Her inability to control the situation any other way but overreaction is not uncommon with police officers who are physically inferior than most of the suspects they will find themselves having to deal with. ....
I agree with that. She acted "unprofessional" because the guy wasn't listening and she had appear like she's a person who could make him comply through threats; and when he complied at first, she acted fine. I really don't see a problem there - I've seen even big male cops having to act tough at the get-go so the suspect would understand that the cops shouldn't be messed with...now, why are people giving this small female cop grief for doing the same thing? Back to the tape, the guy started throwing excuses left and right for not performing the drunk test and won't put his hands behind his back, she had to start getting tough again. Hell, she even BEGGED him to comply so she "can do this nice and easy." Asking him "will you work with me?" Then she shot him - I don't know what he did right before she shot him, but from what I saw, she had a hell of a time trying to get the guy to simply put his hands behind his back and not turn around. The cop was about to put her cuffs on him, and that means getting close to the suspect and risk being easily overpowered. She may have overreacted, but considering the situation (small cop, bigger guy who absolutely won't listen, the risks of handcuffing the suspect), she didn't step over the line.

The funny thing I've been seeing is a lot of people who sided with the white Cincinnati police officer (Steven Roach) for shooting and killing the unarmed black suspect who was running away (not the 300lb guy incident), saying that they always side with the police because they're just doing their jobs and that the suspect deserved to be shot, are the very same people who are condemning this black cop for doing hers. Since those people wanted to turn this in a race issue, I want to ask them if they think only white cops would not abuse their position or if only black suspects deserved to be shot. Of course, I don't expect people to give me a real answer, but I am very interested to see how people justify their defense of the white cop and their attack on this black cop, who both had to deal with suspects who won't comply.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Without a doubt one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen. <shudder>. Completely innapropriate actions on the police officer's part.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Her inability to control the situation any other way but overreaction is not uncommon with police officers who are physically inferior than most of the suspects they will find themselves having to deal with. ....
I agree with that. She acted "unprofessional" because the guy wasn't listening and she had appear like she's a person who could make him comply through threats; and when he complied at first, she acted fine. I really don't see a problem there - I've seen even big male cops having to act tough at the get-go so the suspect would understand that the cops shouldn't be messed with...now, why are people giving this small female cop grief for doing the same thing? Back to the tape, the guy started throwing excuses left and right for not performing the drunk test and won't put his hands behind his back, she had to start getting tough again. Hell, she even BEGGED him to comply so she "can do this nice and easy." Asking him "will you work with me?" Then she shot him - I don't know what he did right before she shot him, but from what I saw, she had a hell of a time trying to get the guy to simply put his hands behind his back and not turn around. The cop was about to put her cuffs on him, and that means getting close to the suspect and risk being easily overpowered. She may have overreacted, but considering the situation (small cop, bigger guy who absolutely won't listen, the risks of handcuffing the suspect), she didn't step over the line.

The funny thing I've been seeing is a lot of people who sided with the white Cincinnati police officer for shooting and killing the unarmed black suspect, saying that they always side with the police because they're just doing their jobs and that the suspect deserved to be shot, are the very same people who are condemning this black cop for doing hers. Since those people wanted to turn this in a race issue, I want to ask them if they think only white cops would not abuse their position or if only black suspects deserved to be shot. Of course, I don't expect people to give me a real answer, but I am very interested to see how people justify their defense of the white cop and their attack on this black cop, who both had to deal with suspects who won't comply.
Active violent resistance by a 400lb guy who was ATTACKING the police is comparable to this incident how? The guy in Cincy was attacking police with physical force, and the guy in Oklahoma never even touched the cop.
 

AaronB

Golden Member
Dec 25, 2002
1,214
0
0
From the article someone posted:
Last month, Oklahoma County District Attorney Wes Lane said Anderson made ''a split-second mistake'' when she shot Justin Lyle Thomas, but charges against the trooper were not warranted
She has since been put back on duty. For some reason she didn't get in any "real" trouble over this.:Q

I can tell everyone without a doubt what happened here.

She is a woman who has a chip on her shoulder because she thinks she is not respected. Either because of her gender or physical size. This becomes obvious when she overreacts to the suspects failure to pull over (she failed to use her siren). She overreacted to his inability or refusal to follow to follow her instructions during the stop (she verbally abuses him which only confused/frightened the man even more). Then, when he resisted arrest it became obvious to her that she would be unable to physically force him to submit so she became enraged and did what she felt trapped into doing. She shot him (she could have called for backup but in her mind that would have been a failure on her part)

I'm not trying to be an "internet psycologist" here. The above scenario just seems obvious to me.

Oh, and to hell with firing her for shootimg him. She should have been fired for all of her other actions. She is not fit to be in that position.


edit, someone one the officer.com forum posted this and I agree:
If anything, the driver of the car was acting in self-defense by running away. She was waving the gun around and threatening to shoot him even though he showed no weapon and no intent to hurt her.
I don't care what uniform or badge you wear. You were neven given the right to threaten my life without just cause.
 

QueHuong

Platinum Member
Nov 21, 2001
2,098
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Active violent resistance by a 400lb guy who was ATTACKING the police is comparable to this incident how? The guy in Cincy was attacking police with physical force, and the guy in Oklahoma never even touched the cop.
I wasn't talking about that incident. There has been another time Cincinnati was in trouble for police brutality. A black suspect was running away from officer Roach, who pulled out his gun and killed the guy. I edited my previous post to clarify. Like I said, people were defending the cop as if they were in his shoes; now the situation has reversed and suddenly, people are crying police brutality, some saying it was racially motivated.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: Mill
Active violent resistance by a 400lb guy who was ATTACKING the police is comparable to this incident how? The guy in Cincy was attacking police with physical force, and the guy in Oklahoma never even touched the cop.
I wasn't talking about that incident. There has been another time Cincinnati was in trouble for police brutality. A black suspect was running away from officer Roach, who pulled out his gun and killed the guy. I edited my previous post to clarify. Like I said, people were defending the cop as if they were in his shoes; now the situation has reversed and suddenly, people are crying police brutality, some saying it was racially motivated.
Have a link to the story? I don't think either situation was racially motivated, but her situation was due to AA.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Shockwave
ATOT certainly makes me laugh.
1) You guys wanna electrify anyone who drives drunk.
2) A cop pulls over a drunk driver, then non lethally shoots him to keep him from fleeing into his vehicle and endangering others. You guys wanna electrify her too.

Gee, lets have our cake and eat it to shall we? So, drunk driving is bad, and keeping people from driving drunk by any non lethal means is bad too... :confused:

One thing is for sure, I'll NEVER understand ATOT! :D
There is no indication he was getting into his vehicle. In fact, there was anything but that indication, because he pulled over in the first place. Anyway you seem to say that if someone is doing something illegal, that they deserve what they get regardless of the legality of it. Well I have a bit more belief in the Constitution than you, and this guy was certainly not acting like an asshole. If anything he was scared sh!tless of this lady being on a power trip. It makes the good cops(about 95% of all the police) and people who consider Law Enforcement a career choice out to look bad. We have to condemn this because it was illegal, unethical, unprofessional, and down right immoral.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
Originally posted by: MindStorm
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Her inability to control the situation any other way but overreaction is not uncommon with police officers who are physically inferior than most of the suspects they will find themselves having to deal with. ....
I agree with that. She acted "unprofessional" because the guy wasn't listening and she had appear like she's a person who could make him comply through threats; and when he complied at first, she acted fine. I really don't see a problem there - I've seen even big male cops having to act tough at the get-go so the suspect would understand that the cops shouldn't be messed with...now, why are people giving this small female cop grief for doing the same thing? Back to the tape, the guy started throwing excuses left and right for not performing the drunk test and won't put his hands behind his back, she had to start getting tough again. Hell, she even BEGGED him to comply so she "can do this nice and easy." Asking him "will you work with me?" Then she shot him - I don't know what he did right before she shot him, but from what I saw, she had a hell of a time trying to get the guy to simply put his hands behind his back and not turn around. The cop was about to put her cuffs on him, and that means getting close to the suspect and risk being easily overpowered. She may have overreacted, but considering the situation (small cop, bigger guy who absolutely won't listen, the risks of handcuffing the suspect), she didn't step over the line.

The funny thing I've been seeing is a lot of people who sided with the white Cincinnati police officer (Steven Roach) for shooting and killing the unarmed black suspect who was running away (not the 300lb guy incident), saying that they always side with the police because they're just doing their jobs and that the suspect deserved to be shot, are the very same people who are condemning this black cop for doing hers. Since those people wanted to turn this in a race issue, I want to ask them if they think only white cops would not abuse their position or if only black suspects deserved to be shot. Of course, I don't expect people to give me a real answer, but I am very interested to see how people justify their defense of the white cop and their attack on this black cop, who both had to deal with suspects who won't comply.

I am not sure where the hell you are going with this one....have you been pulled over much, arrested ever? For you it's very hard to hear on a road like that guy was pulled over on...you have the passing traffic, the engine of your car and/or the police cruiser (they should tell you to 'shut down' but they keep their cruiser running..for obvious reasons), and to have some stupid bish (who was already an idiot from the start before even getting the guy to pull over) yelling and screaming as well as going on tangents and accusations in every sentence.

I don't know about you, but I can picture myself in that situation, even sober, I would be wondering what the hell I am in for especially when she first told him to go 'way off camera'. I know officer's more or less want you in the front of their cars so they have everything on film....if I was asked to go way off to the dark side of a road I don't know how I'd handle that. Also you do not have to technically pull over instantly, if you feel threatened you can drive to a public area...however you are supposed to signal the cop you see them....it's sort of a touchy area because the cop has no idea what's going on, but if you have a cell phone the instructions are to call the station who can tell the officer what you are doing.

There is no reason to start intimidating to exercise power because 1) the other person is either going to care or not....being cocky or threatening is just going to escalate things esp if you are precieved as a 'wimp' or 'takable' 2) if you start scaring the other person they are going to be defensive and jumpy and confused...people in fear are thinking the next step is getting the crap beat out of them.

&Aring;
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
0
0
Originally posted by: DrPizza
1. someone mentioned llama pay... I don't know about Okla, but in NY, State Troopers *start* at 48-49K per year... that's pretty good.

2. Someone please tell me that was filmed by some amateur video people... There can't possibly be someone that bad who is hired for law enforcement...
I dont know what the Oklahoma either, but I do know what we pay E-1's... and it aint pretty.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
9
81
wow. just wow.

hope this hits the news etc. there needs to be a LOT of pressure on them to charge her and get her off the streets.

Im glad i dont live in that area. i would be scared when to get pulled over.

I know cops have a hard job. I usually side with them on such things. but that was unbelievable. this is a reason why AA is wrong. this women should NEVER been an officer.

edit: after thinking what iwould do if i was that man. i have to admit i think i would hav ran or attacked. She was threatning his life and pushing him off camera. that would really scare the heck out of me.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
16
81
The lowest in my area (a friend just starting) is $17.xx per hour, plus they get 2.5 times pay on holidays if they work the night shift (1 mandatory shift is required on any major holiday week, but it can be 'traded' or given to another officer if they want it).....this is start pay for non-4 year degree officers. There is a big increase in pay for a BA holder and police training.

Plus you have to look at benefits and pension if offered, plus most get a car here they can take home at night (my friend is 'sharing' a car...two officers get 1 car, they have to alternate days and nights, but are responsible for this vehicle).

&Aring;
 

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