Ok, I'v had enough of Israel!!!

[Czar]

Israeli state, good or bad?
- good

Palestine state, good or bad?
- good

Recent Isreali actions, good or bad?
- bad

Recent Pelestine actions, good or bad?
- bad

Sharon, good or bad?
- bad

Arafat, good or bad?
- bad

And finaly,
Who do you think is most likely to bring peace between Israel and Palestinie?
- Peres

 

[burnedout]

Reasoning? Sure.

>1. The settlements stay in the west bank.

A subject of much debate. But I can somewhat agree with it.

>2. Refugees do not return

Security risks.

>3. Israel controls the water

Strategic resource in the desert. Here's a map

>4. Palestinian state shall not have an army

Why risk escalating an already volatile situation?

>5. Israel reserves the right to control Palestines foreing policies

Foreign policy I believe? Where do the Palestinians obtain their weapons from now? Covertly, I might add.

>6. Israel shall have the right to fly it's military planes over Palestine

In view of the previous four major conflicts in the area, a well-founded condition.

>7. Israel has the right to set up military bases between Palestine and it's neighbours.

See #6

 

[Czar]

burnedout,
And to you, are these terms agreeable as basis for freedom for palestinian people? seems they would pretty much be in the same spot as they are now and if they would have agreed to these terms, except maybe less violence between them.

 

[burnedout]

Duetschvelle

You must mean "Deutsche Welle".

Eigentlich gut manchmal. Jedenfalls, etwas fehlt noch.

burnedout,
And to you, are these terms agreeable as basis for freedom for palestinian people? seems they would pretty much be in the same spot as they are now and if they would have agreed to these terms, except maybe less violence between them.

Depends upon whether or not the Palestinians desire to remain the "proxy fighters" for the rest of the "anti-Israeli" Arab world.

 

[Czar]

Interesting, reading this from the local teletext.

"Repricentatives of Israel and Palestine will meet tonight to discuss ways to stop violence and bring peace to the region.

Arial Sharon said today that truce would now be the main goal of his government.

Supprt for Sharon in Israel is decreaseing. His military policy has not made Israel safer but only increased Palestinian retaliation attacks on Isreal.

More than twenty thousands Isreali's participated in protests that took place yesterday, there they condamned Sharons policy and demanded that peace treaties would be signed. Also, Israelis of Arabic origin anounced a major strike."

 

[Passner]

Czar info on the death of Sgt. Madhat Yusef can be found somewhere in this article The Article

 

[angusthermopyle]

Hmmm, what a difficult situation. The only answer any rational person could give to this question is there is no right in it. Its true that Israelis are becoming tired of the present governments policies. Its also true that the Palestinians are fuelled by a fanatical desire to strike back.

One thing is indisputable, thats the fact that the Israeli government is unconcerned about world opinion. Canada has had some serious issues with them regarding the use of stolen Canadian passports as a cover for their Mossad agents. This practise has been protested by the Canadian government on several occasions with no satisfactory resolution being reached.

The Palestinian practise of using non combatants is reprehensible. It happens though, in such situations its hard to say a just course of action can exist.

As for those who ask if any of us have been involved in armed conflict. The answer is yes, I have. Not just one conflict, several. I've done tours of Somalia, Yugoslavia, Rwanda, and Haiti three times. I can answer that on every tour I've done our primary concern has been that non combatants are not injured. I have 20 years of service behind me now, so I believe that experience entitles me to as much say as those here who have a few years service or one or two hostile deployments.

I know some of the zealous participants in this debate will disagree with my view. I must state however that there is no clear cut good or bad side in this conflict. To see it in such simplistic terms is to disregard all facets of whats happening over there. Once again, I state, there is no right involved in this situation. Merely wrongs on both sides that compound each other to create injustices that cannot be justified by any rational person.

 

[spamsk8r]

<<

<< Ok, I'v had enough of Israel!!! >>



You picked the wrong team to root for. Israel 4, Arabs 0 in wars so far, and all of them sound thrashings administered by Team Israel. Let the Arabs bring it on, i'm sure Israel will be happy to make it 5-0. Heck, let Israel annex the land that used to be called the country of Syria after the war is done, that will solve quite a few terrorist problems at the same time.

Israel has a right to exist, and is here to stay... they have both the moral standing and military might to make sure that stays the case. The sooner everyone on earth recognizes that simple reality, the sooner we can go about achieving a peace worthy of the name in that region. >>



I agree wholeheartedly, and I think that when and if the United States stops backing Israel then we're all in for it

 

[SupaCh1nk]

i believe an eye for an eye but how come israel has to always kill many times more palestinians in retaliation?

 

[Baaka]

My 2 Cents!!!

god@amn those Israeli...yalll i have had it....Israel is teh biggest CRYBABY/SPOILED COUNTRY in the FREAKING WORLD!!!
man...Yall...ISRAEL ain't the victim...they are just guilty as its neighboring countries!!

every f*cken time, Israeli alz start $h!t, they alz do...but since the BIG BROTHER USA is allied to ISRAELI, everything is justify...stop listening to the propanganda people! realize that ISRAEL DO A LOT of $h!t and expect the US and its ALLIES to pick up the mess!!

ISRAEL is f*cken tampering with Lebanon...then tampers with Palestine every f*cken day!! they KILL HELL PEOPLE...but it's alz ok?? why is that??? sh!t...most of their victims are alz innocent peole, and senseless killing!! if there is one country that doesn't want peace it's ISRAEL! YALL! they want to fight adn fight and fight!!

Don't alz judge Palestine or other countries "at war" with ISRAEL...here in the US we are only seeing one side of the story simply cause we their allies...

btw...if we US get involve we going to WWIII as RUSSIA IS allied with LEBANNON and PALESTINE!! so we are f*cked already!!
DON"T BE BLINDED BY THINKING ISRAEL IS the GOOD GUY!!

there are no good guys, there are no bad guys!!


-baaka

 

[Baaka]

<< i believe an eye for an eye but how come israel has to always kill many times more palestinians in retaliation? >>



as for me....i am not too much into eye for an eye...but he\\ f*cken yeah!!...as you have notice...ISREAL ALZ Killz and many times mroe, adn they destroy way more...then waht Palestine does...in any case...


most of the palestinian attacks are by terrorist acts....adn groups...some affiliated with ARAFAT, but still why punish PALESTINE!!


adn waht teh f*ck were we thinking after WWII to even think that we had the right to go into a country and map it out as we like!!
we (Allies) didn't even consider waht palestine thought....we simply say....jewish people...here you go we gave you ISRAEL?? waht teh f*ck was that?

 

[b0mbrman]

<< we (Allies) didn't even consider waht palestine thought....we simply say....jewish people...here you go we gave you ISRAEL?? waht teh f*ck was that? >>


There was only the Ottoman Empire in the region before World War I. There was no "Palestine" to consider the thoughts of

 

[ElFenix]

<< Israeli state, good or bad?
Palestine state, good or bad?
Recent Isreali actions, good or bad?
Recent Pelestine actions, good or bad?
Sharon, good or bad?
Arafat, good or bad? >>


good idea, really poor execution.
never has been one, why start now?
bad, but they're in retaliation
bad, but they're in retaliation (see the vicious cycle?)
extremely intelligent politician, but i'm pretty sure hes evil.
again intelligent politician, and not so evil.

 

[etech]

ElFenix

Read up on Damour Lebanon and Arafat roll in that and then tell me that he is not more evil than Sharon.

 

[somethingwitty]

<< My 2 Cents!!!

god@amn those Israeli...yalll i have had it....Israel is teh biggest CRYBABY/SPOILED COUNTRY in the FREAKING WORLD!!!
man...Yall...ISRAEL ain't the victim...they are just guilty as its neighboring countries!!

every f*cken time, Israeli alz start $h!t, they alz do...but since the BIG BROTHER USA is allied to ISRAELI, everything is justify...stop listening to the propanganda people! realize that ISRAEL DO A LOT of $h!t and expect the US and its ALLIES to pick up the mess!!

ISRAEL is f*cken tampering with Lebanon...then tampers with Palestine every f*cken day!! they KILL HELL PEOPLE...but it's alz ok?? why is that??? sh!t...most of their victims are alz innocent peole, and senseless killing!! if there is one country that doesn't want peace it's ISRAEL! YALL! they want to fight adn fight and fight!!

Don't alz judge Palestine or other countries "at war" with ISRAEL...here in the US we are only seeing one side of the story simply cause we their allies...

btw...if we US get involve we going to WWIII as RUSSIA IS allied with LEBANNON and PALESTINE!! so we are f*cked already!!
DON"T BE BLINDED BY THINKING ISRAEL IS the GOOD GUY!!

there are no good guys, there are no bad guys!!


-baaka >>



for some reason a quote from Pulp Fiction comes to mind after reading the above. Specifically, the line in which Jules asks a man who is repeating "what" over and over again if he happens to speak english; quite the humorous line, if I may say.

 

[Cynicism]

Why do we not just let the jews and arabs duke it out? Why must the US get involved in every little spat?

 

[skylark]

Czar, I'm starting to wonder about you.. Palestine is in your blood.

 

[Czar]

<< Czar, I'm starting to wonder about you.. Palestine is in your blood. >>


Trust me it aint, it only seems so because there are so many here who blindly side with Israel.

 

[EagleKeeper]

<< Why do we not just let the jews and arabs duke it out? Why must the US get involved in every little spat? >>



At this point, only the Palestinians and the Israel are going at it.

The US is involved because we are perceived as using Israel as a proxy. The same is true with the rest of the Arab countries even if the support is not officially sanctioned by their governments.

The US provides support to Israel because we feel that
1) The country is owed for the mistakes that were made by the world free nations 70 years ago. (Remember, that we like to be considered the beacon in the darkness and stand for freedam and fait play.)

2) The country was the only democracy in the area at the time and is still that way. (Remember that we are the worlds leading democracy nation)

3) The country is an test bed for our new weapons.

4) It is felt that if the US does nto apply pressure to reign in the Israeli hardliners, the situation could escalate. Remember that Israel could turn Palestine into a waste land if they desired.

 

[ThePresence]

<< My 2 Cents!!!

god@amn those Israeli...yalll i have had it....Israel is teh biggest CRYBABY/SPOILED COUNTRY in the FREAKING WORLD!!!
man...Yall...ISRAEL ain't the victim...they are just guilty as its neighboring countries!!

every f*cken time, Israeli alz start $h!t, they alz do...but since the BIG BROTHER USA is allied to ISRAELI, everything is justify...stop listening to the propanganda people! realize that ISRAEL DO A LOT of $h!t and expect the US and its ALLIES to pick up the mess!!

ISRAEL is f*cken tampering with Lebanon...then tampers with Palestine every f*cken day!! they KILL HELL PEOPLE...but it's alz ok?? why is that??? sh!t...most of their victims are alz innocent peole, and senseless killing!! if there is one country that doesn't want peace it's ISRAEL! YALL! they want to fight adn fight and fight!!

Don't alz judge Palestine or other countries "at war" with ISRAEL...here in the US we are only seeing one side of the story simply cause we their allies...

btw...if we US get involve we going to WWIII as RUSSIA IS allied with LEBANNON and PALESTINE!! so we are f*cked already!!
DON"T BE BLINDED BY THINKING ISRAEL IS the GOOD GUY!!

there are no good guys, there are no bad guys!!


-baaka >>



Your 2 cents indeed, you gave us more than 20 bucks of your cents. What a mindless rant. Interesting how you say,

<< if there is one country that doesn't want peace it's ISRAEL! YALL! they want to fight adn fight and fight!! >>

, and then you have the balz to say that you believe

<< there are no good guys, there are no bad guys!! >>

. Seems to me that you dont really believe that. You just went on an anti-Israel tirade, and then you say there are no good guys or bad guys. Interesting.

 

[incallisto]

<< Israel was formed as a nation of Jews by the British without consideration of all resident ethnicities. The Palestinians now find themselves with limited rights in a land their ancestors called home, and have not been successful using diplomacy to get their land back (what nation would allow itself to be dissolved?). What options are left besides hostile actions against a nation whose military is the result of billions in aid from the US? Also, how do you win when you have explosives and the enemy has jets? They are mad at the master who fed the dog who is now biting them.

The Jews believe that God made a covenant with Abraham to protect his decendants, wage ward on their behalf, and obtain for them the land (currently the nation of Israel). In return the ancient Hebrews had to follow ethical rules and rituals laid down by God. So they view their current condition as the result of being faithful, and defend the nation God formed for them. >>



Very true. I like it when someone states the whoel truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[ThePresence]

<<

<< Israel was formed as a nation of Jews by the British without consideration of all resident ethnicities. The Palestinians now find themselves with limited rights in a land their ancestors called home, and have not been successful using diplomacy to get their land back (what nation would allow itself to be dissolved?). What options are left besides hostile actions against a nation whose military is the result of billions in aid from the US? Also, how do you win when you have explosives and the enemy has jets? They are mad at the master who fed the dog who is now biting them.

The Jews believe that God made a covenant with Abraham to protect his decendants, wage ward on their behalf, and obtain for them the land (currently the nation of Israel). In return the ancient Hebrews had to follow ethical rules and rituals laid down by God. So they view their current condition as the result of being faithful, and defend the nation God formed for them. >>



Very true. I like it when someone states the whoel truth and nothing but the truth. >>



That's the whole truth? lol. What a load of rubbish.

1) Israel was not formed by the British, contrary to popular opinion. Israel was formed by Israel. The UN had a partition plan, the Brits agreed. Then they promptly pulled out of the region. Israel was attacked by 7 countries. Israel barely made it through. When they did, they formed their OWN country.

2)What nation would allow itself to be dissolved? The Palestinian "nation" didnt exist untill about 3 years ago.

3) Interesting how you know so well what the Jews believe. I like the way you describe how they view their current condition. You dont have the foggiest notion of what you're talking about. Most Israelis and the Kenesset (parliament) aren't even religious! There are actually some powerful parties in the Kenesset that run on an anti-religious party line (shinui, Meretz). So don't try to describe the Israeli feelings as religious fanatacism.

 

[BeauJangles]

Wow, I'm sick of hearing about the horrible crap that's going on between the Arabs and Israeli's. If only the world hadn't decided to ship all the jews to Palistine and set up a country there this would have never happened! Granted, I don't believe either side has handled themselves well lately (the past 17 months), but you must remember that Israel was created by an international colition as a refuge for Jews, imagine if the rest of the world took Texas from the US and said that it would now be a Christian country where the Christians could go? Same damn thing would happen.

 

[ThePresence]

<< Wow, I'm sick of hearing about the horrible crap that's going on between the Arabs and Israeli's. If only the world hadn't decided to ship all the jews to Palistine and set up a country there this would have never happened! Granted, I don't believe either side has handled themselves well lately (the past 17 months), but you must remember that Israel was created by an international colition as a refuge for Jews, imagine if the rest of the world took Texas from the US and said that it would now be a Christian country where the Christians could go? Same damn thing would happen. >>



<flamesuit>
Yeah, if the rest of the world would've let the Jews live in their countries instead of killing them, then the Jews would not have needed to run to Palestine. Read this letter, One sided as it is (the letter), it still brings up some good points.
</flamesuit>

 

[mboy]

<< Wow, I'm sick of hearing about the horrible crap that's going on between the Arabs and Israeli's. If only the world hadn't decided to ship all the jews to Palistine and set up a country there this would have never happened! Granted, I don't believe either side has handled themselves well lately (the past 17 months), but you must remember that Israel was created by an international colition as a refuge for Jews, imagine if the rest of the world took Texas from the US and said that it would now be a Christian country where the Christians could go? Same damn thing would happen. >>


Hey jackass, King Hussein of Jordan Exiled the Palestinians. How stupid are you people? The basic scum of the earth (arabs)-besides oil, what do they contribute to the world? NOTHING! They threw the other A-RABS out. Not the jews.