Ok, I'v had enough of Israel!!!

[Texmaster]

<< Proof for what? the Isreali army has never given anyone proof that ambulances carry weapons, they have said they have proof but they havent shown anyone them. Isnt it blind support when you belive them just becuase they say so? >>




Czar if I may, I think the difference here is the fact that you are thinking in civilized terms of war. In most Western wars, (not all of course) most would not even dream of using an ambulence to transports weapons or terrorists especailly in the middle of a crisis.

But the Palestinians have proven they will use ANY means necessary to kill Israelies. They will even blow themselves up and target religious structures and children as long as Isralies die.

Now, if you are a soldier trying to prevent more death, you will question EVERYTHING Palestinians say and do. Your thoughts of warefare must change to include primitive ideas and sacrifices the enemy will make to kill you and your people.

 

[etech]

heheh yeah, it seems everyone is comfortable when Palestinians get killed, no matter what they are and what they do.

No, war sucks though and innocents will be killed. The answer is to end the war. That will only happen when the violence ends. I believe that the Israelis are retaliating for the terrorist acts in their nation. It is up to the Palestinians to end those terrorist acts.

 

[mboy]

<< <<However, Israelis are killing innocent Palestinians as a byproduct of searching for/rooting out militants

Palestinians are killing innocent Israelis with more death as the goal.

There's a big difference>>

The only difference is, so far this year they have been 1200 palestinian killed, for 300 israelis killed. Looks like the israelis are better at killing civilians than terrorists. >>



Grommet5, are you still in high school? Are you even older then the age of 18? Your ignorance really is quite amusing. Comparing the Isrealis to nazis? If Isreal wanted to "cleanse" themselves of the Palestinians, they could probably elimante ALL of them within 48 hrs. AnD omparing 1200 dead plastinians to 300 jews. Well, obviously Isreal is MUCH more powerful then the Palestinians. Is the US guilty of nazism towards the tal;iban and Al-Qaeda during their battle right now? We only lost 8 soldiers (still sucks to lose 8), but 100s of Them have been kiled. So that means that we are like the nazi's right?
If Isreal wanted to kill civilans, why wouldnt the drop some HEAVY bombs on the refugee camps and lsughter all of them. 2 days is all it would take to wipe the Palestinians of the map. Why dont they just do it already if they want to slaughter them? The only answer that you can come up with is that the other Arabs will attack Isreal, therefore they wont? Ask all those Arabs what happened last time they planned on attacking Isreal, thery got their asses kicked, which is why they are in the position they are in now. Not to mention that most arabs are forced to eat Dirt and rocks becasue their repressive governments steal all their money and force them to live like animals. Too bad they are too stupid to realize its their leaders that force them to eat rocks and wipe their asses with sand and not every non muslim/arab on the planet. Wait till no one has to buy oil from them anymore, the will go back to the stone ages (where they mostly r anyway).

 

[burnedout]

Hey Tex: Glad you could make it out today.

Now the fun can really start.

 

[BoltCase]

<< How do you tell the difference in the middle of a fire fight with terrorists? >>



You don't, you just kill em. and then just hope that they are really terrorits. Toss a coin and shoot.

Well, they did KILL medics and a UN nurse and they found no terrorists. Bad luck THIS TIME for the IDF, maybe they'll find a terrorist after shooting a 100 ambulance or so. Seems like a good stategy to me.

 

[Texmaster]

LOL Alas I can't stay today

 

[mboy]

<<

<< No Czar, just a realist. >>


Ok, I'll be a realist to.

Q: How long does it take for Sharon to send Palestinians to hell?
A: He already has.

You might call this being a realist, but I'd call it tasteless. >>



And hell is where they belong for doing what they do. Deep down you realize it too or you would have said, how long would it take to send them to Muhammed and their virgins?

 

[burnedout]

LOL Alas I can't stay today

**aw shucks**

edit: italics

 

[Texmaster]

<< LOL Alas I can't stay today

**aw shucks**

edit: italics >>



lol buck up, I'll be around tomorow

 

[mboy]

<< ThePresence,
I sit here in the freezing cold in Iceland. I have the luxury of looking at this objectively.
I dont perfectly understand what is going on there but I am trying, from both sides. I have not lived in Isreal or Palestine and therefor I do not have a bias toward one side to get in the way of seeing the other side.
I have noticed that most Isrealis truly want peace. Too bad the way the Isreali government to deal with it will not bring peace and will only increase violence on both sides.
Everyone gets sick of violence.
I think that neither side wakes up and looks for someone from the other side to kill, I think both sides wakes up and hears on the news what the other side did during the night and seek revenge.
I think the worst thing that can happen is one side starts to get the upper hand and starts ethnicly clensing the other side.
I do not look at this regarding religion, I dont care what people belive in, Isreal could be the only Athiest country in the world and I'd still think what they are doing is wrong and same goes for Palestine.
I think for both side it is about power over their own land, I think both sides want to live there in peace, and under their own rule.
Its easy to say that the Palestinians want land and nothing but land while the Isrealis want peace and nothing but peace, the Palestinians dont have land and they must have land to have peace, the Isrealis have land and obviosly want peace. >>



Btw, what happend a nubmer of yrs back at Camp David when Isreal offeded EVERYTHING the Palestinians (Araft asked for ) EVERYTHING, when they finally got it, Arafat said, Well, this is nice, but now we want more? Arafat will be Dead by May, just you wait and see. If the Palestinians don't stop their crap, they will be dead (all of them by yrs end)

 

[Czar]

Hi Texmaster
True wars are not pretty and there are no civilized wars, but we must try to make them civil else we would have things happening in Isreal like there have been happening in someplaces in Africa.
Question everything, yes, but the line must be drawn somewhere untill it has been broken, and for the last decades medics have been regarded as nontargets in most wars, that is why organazations like the Red Cross exists. If it would be common practace to kill medics the Red Cross would never help anyone.

So far there is no proof that supports the Isreali accusations that the Palestinie part of the Red Cross has been carrying weapons and therefor the Isrealis are putting themselves in a very bad spot by stopping ambulences from helping the wounded, shooting at ambulences and even killing medical workers.

 

[etech]

BoltCase

Can you tell me why the Palestinians started this Infitada? Not the first of them, but this one?

 

[mboy]

<< I have changed my mind. I have done a lot of thinking about the whole situation. Arafat is very old and he was never elected and is in full control ordering the bombings or at the very least not removing those doing them. There are only two ways for eventual peace for both sides.

1)A U.N. Security force lead by France and Germany in Israel and Palestine in the 60,000 troop numbers. This would allow the two states to co-exist. Palestine would be forbiden from having a army and airforce. Palestine would have to hold elections for a Republic system of government. Israel would have to become a Republic or Democracy as well. This is the best but unlikely way.

2)Israel adopts a Republic or Democracy form of government. Then Israel invades Palestine and destroys Hamas and all other militant groups there. Israel then allows for Palestinians to become citizens of Israel as white card holders and Israelis become citizens with blue card holders. The upper house of government is solely controlled by the blue card holders and the lower house is controlled by the white card holders. This solves the problem of Palestinians having a majority power and prevents presecution and laws would be passed preventing persecution of either side. The Prime Minister would allways be a Jew. The President would be elected by popular vote allowing either side to be President even though the Palestinians would have a slight edge.

It is my offical opinion that the common people of both sides just want peace and freedom to worship in their own way and that politicans in undemocratic systems prevent this. >>




Hello? Isreal IS a democracy, with electi0ons and Politcal parties and everything? Where have u been dude?

 

[BoltCase]

<< If Isreal wanted to kill civilans, why wouldnt the drop some HEAVY bombs on the refugee camps and lsughter all of them. 2 days is all it would take to wipe the Palestinians of the map. Why dont they just do it already if they want to slaughter them? The only answer that you can come up with is that the other Arabs will attack Isreal, therefore they wont? >>



I thought that was my answer.



<< Ask all those Arabs what happened last time they planned on attacking Isreal, thery got their asses kicked, which is why they are in the position they are in now. >>



heh, because of our military support dude. We keep pumping money and free weapons to Israel. Not to mention all the intelligence they can get from us.




<< Not to mention that most arabs are forced to eat Dirt and rocks becasue their repressive governments steal all their money and force them to live like animals. >>



huh?



<< Too bad they are too stupid to realize its their leaders that force them to eat rocks and wipe their asses with sand and not every non muslim/arab on the planet. Wait till no one has to buy oil from them anymore, the will go back to the stone ages (where they mostly r anyway). >>



If US support for Israel stops, Israel will be wiped off the map. They just made their homeland.. in the wrong region. Nuclear capabiltities? Pakistan has plenty and Iran or Arab countries can certainly get a hold of some nuclear capablities. Almost 300 million arabs against what... 5 million Israeils? If a war starts and if Israel uses ALL their nuclear weapons, they're still going to be enough arabs to wipe Israelis out.

 

[Czar]

<< Btw, what happend a nubmer of yrs back at Camp David when Isreal offeded EVERYTHING the Palestinians (Araft asked for ) EVERYTHING, when they finally got it, Arafat said, Well, this is nice, but now we want more? Arafat will be Dead by May, just you wait and see. If the Palestinians don't stop their crap, they will be dead (all of them by yrs end) >>


From another thread regarding this issue, post post by Nemesis77.



<< to my knowledge, the terms of that deal were unacceptable. they were (among other things):

1. The settlements stay in the west bank
2. Refugees do not return
3. Israel controls the water
4. Palestinian state shall not have an army
5. Israel reserves the right to control Palestines foreing policies
6. Israel shall have the right to fly it's military planes over Palestine
7. Israel has the right to set up military bases between Palestine and it's neighbours.

etc.
>>

 

[etech]

So far there is no proof that supports the Isreali accusations that the Palestinie part of the Red Cross has been carrying weapons and therefor the Isrealis are putting themselves in a very bad spot by stopping ambulences from helping the wounded, shooting at ambulences and even killing medical workers.

And the Palestinian terrorists that blow up pizza parlors and nightclubs are just freedom fighters. Right Czar.



"but we must try to make them civil"

A civilized war, not there's an oxymoron.

 

[BoltCase]

<< BoltCase

Can you tell me why the Palestinians started this Infitada? Not the first of them, but this one? >>



What's the point of this question? You can certainly do a search and find out.

 

[Czar]

<< So far there is no proof that supports the Isreali accusations that the Palestinie part of the Red Cross has been carrying weapons and therefor the Isrealis are putting themselves in a very bad spot by stopping ambulences from helping the wounded, shooting at ambulences and even killing medical workers.

And the Palestinian terrorists that blow up pizza parlors and nightclubs are just freedom fighters. Right Czar.

"but we must try to make them civil"

A civilized war, not there's an oxymoron. >>



Define Freedom Fighters then, tell me your explination on the term.
If civilized war is an oxymoron then why do we have and mostly respect the Geneva Accord ?

 

[BoltCase]

<< So far there is no proof that supports the Isreali accusations that the Palestinie part of the Red Cross has been carrying weapons and therefor the Isrealis are putting themselves in a very bad spot by stopping ambulences from helping the wounded, shooting at ambulences and even killing medical workers.

And the Palestinian terrorists that blow up pizza parlors and nightclubs are just freedom fighters. Right Czar.
>>



You just said NOTHING.

 

[etech]

<< BoltCase

Can you tell me why the Palestinians started this Infitada? Not the first of them, but this one? >>



What's the point of this question? You can certainly do a search and find out.

In other words, you don't know. You are not aware that the Palestinians rejected peace with Israel. You don't know that this uprising was a planned event by the Palestinian leadership. You don't know much about this subject at all.

 

[BoltCase]

<< If civilized war is an oxymoron then why do we have and mostly respect the Geneva Accord ? >>



Czar, I respect your attempts to teach some of ignorants that there is actually some international laws/orders that must be respected. Most don't have any clue about Geneva/Hauge convections, nor anything remotly related to UN resolutions. I find that due mainly to the dumb media we have here, I mostly rely on BBC or Duetschvelle which is FAR more objective.

 

[mboy]

<<

<< If Isreal wanted to kill civilans, why wouldnt the drop some HEAVY bombs on the refugee camps and lsughter all of them. 2 days is all it would take to wipe the Palestinians of the map. Why dont they just do it already if they want to slaughter them? The only answer that you can come up with is that the other Arabs will attack Isreal, therefore they wont? >>



I thought that was my answer.



<< Ask all those Arabs what happened last time they planned on attacking Isreal, thery got their asses kicked, which is why they are in the position they are in now. >>



heh, because of our military support dude. We keep pumping money and free weapons to Israel. Not to mention all the intelligence they can get from us.




<< Not to mention that most arabs are forced to eat Dirt and rocks becasue their repressive governments steal all their money and force them to live like animals. >>



huh?



<< Too bad they are too stupid to realize its their leaders that force them to eat rocks and wipe their asses with sand and not every non muslim/arab on the planet. Wait till no one has to buy oil from them anymore, the will go back to the stone ages (where they mostly r anyway). >>



If US support for Israel stops, Israel will be wiped off the map. They just made their homeland.. in the wrong region. Nuclear capabiltities? Pakistan has plenty and Iran or Arab countries can certainly get a hold of some nuclear capablities. Almost 300 million arabs against what... 5 million Israeils? If a war starts and if Israel uses ALL their nuclear weapons, they're still going to be enough arabs to wipe Israelis out. >>



If Iran and the others could get them, they would. But they dont and are STILL trying to acquire them. Again, it would take Isreal 2 days to elimante every living Palestinian. How did ISreal kick the crap out of the Arabs in 1947? Wasn't with all of America's help. Why do you think the US supports Isreal. Because the governemnt knows that Isreal is a democracy that promotes equality between men and woman and allows for many freedoms. The only countires that like Arabs are the other Arab countries. Even they dont like each other for the most part. Ask the Iranians and Iraqis.
Oh and get intelligance from us? You should showed (once again) how little you know. It is widely known that Isreali intelligence is the most advanced in the world, while, unfortunelty, the US Intelligence is utter crap. Go back to high school little boy!

 

[etech]

Boltcase,

Why do those agreements say about someone strapping on a load of semtex and blowing themselves up in a civilian establishment?

 

[BoltCase]

<< What's the point of this question? You can certainly do a search and find out.

In other words, you don't know. You are not aware that the Palestinians rejected peace with Israel. You don't know that this uprising was a planned event by the Palestinian leadership. You don't know much about this subject at all. >>



Why did you assume that? How about that Israelis rejected Peace with Palestinians? Sure Clinton tried to resolve the remaining refugee and jeruselum issues but nor the Israelis or the Palestinians want to change their stand on that. Why? Because Juruselum is a freaking religious sh*t for both of them and religious fanatics on both sides don't want to share it. Refugees must also be compensated.

There is a hope with the newly purposed Arab peace plan. If Israel withdraw to 1967 borders, they shall be full normalization with all arab countries. This is spectacular and it came from Saudi Arabia itself. Now, we'll wait and see if Israelis REALLY want peace or not. They should give those lands back to the Palestinians is accordance with UN resolutions.

Anyway, I gotta go now, nice discussion with ye all.

 

[Czar]

I would love to get some stright answers from everyone here, just answer these simple questions. (my next most will have my answers)

Israeli state, good or bad?
Palestine state, good or bad?
Recent Isreali actions, good or bad?
Recent Pelestine actions, good or bad?
Sharon, good or bad?
Arafat, good or bad?

And finaly,
Who do you think is most likely to bring peace between Israel and Palestinie?