"OHHHHH SH*T!"

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: James3shin
Oh and here is how I see it...

If the Yanks threw in Joba, with Phil and Melky, the Twins may bite.

If the Mets threw in J. Reyes with some of their young players, the Twins would definitely bite .

If the Red Sox are not willing to give up any aces, or possible aces from their pitching staff, making Minnesota uncomfy.

I'm thinking Johan is going to the fucking Mets....BOOOOOO!

dude - you are clueless.

Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana, the mets are NOT trading Reyes.

The Sox are the front runners - coco crisp, jon lester, jed lowry, and a relief arm - that fits perfectly to what the twinkies want.

the only other team that can (and would, within reason) do as good is the angels..

 

[James3shin]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: James3shin
Oh and here is how I see it...

If the Yanks threw in Joba, with Phil and Melky, the Twins may bite.

If the Mets threw in J. Reyes with some of their young players, the Twins would definitely bite .

If the Red Sox are not willing to give up any aces, or possible aces from their pitching staff, making Minnesota uncomfy.

I'm thinking Johan is going to the fucking Mets....BOOOOOO!

dude - you are clueless.

Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana, the mets are NOT trading Reyes.

The Sox are the front runners - coco crisp, jon lester, jed lowry, and a relief arm - that fits perfectly to what the twinkies want.

the only other team that can (and would, within reason) do as good is the angels..

NO WAY! The Red Sox package is LIGHT! Where is the ace, hell where is a decent named SP for the Twins in their package? As for Reyes alone being enough for Johan, that is ridiculous as well. How do you figure that in the first place? Johan dominates a game, does Reyes? For instance, when Jose is at the plate, would he take anything away from a dominate pitcher like Johan? I've seen Jose play and the man has RAAAANGE. Jose may be the best SS in the league and the Twins need a SS. The Twins also need a CF and a SP, and from what I'm hearing, the Mets have great young talent in the farm system as well.

Yeah the Mets say Jose is untouchable, and the Yanks say Joba is untouchable as well too, but we're talking about a YOUNG bonified ace in Johan, and they only come up every so often.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: James3shin
Oh and here is how I see it...

If the Yanks threw in Joba, with Phil and Melky, the Twins may bite.

If the Mets threw in J. Reyes with some of their young players, the Twins would definitely bite .

If the Red Sox are not willing to give up any aces, or possible aces from their pitching staff, making Minnesota uncomfy.

I'm thinking Johan is going to the fucking Mets....BOOOOOO!

dude - you are clueless.

Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana, the mets are NOT trading Reyes.

The Sox are the front runners - coco crisp, jon lester, jed lowry, and a relief arm - that fits perfectly to what the twinkies want.

the only other team that can (and would, within reason) do as good is the angels..

'Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana', you're kidding right? Thanks for the morning laugh!!!

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: James3shin
Oh and here is how I see it...

If the Yanks threw in Joba, with Phil and Melky, the Twins may bite.

If the Mets threw in J. Reyes with some of their young players, the Twins would definitely bite .

If the Red Sox are not willing to give up any aces, or possible aces from their pitching staff, making Minnesota uncomfy.

I'm thinking Johan is going to the fucking Mets....BOOOOOO!

dude - you are clueless.

Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana, the mets are NOT trading Reyes.

The Sox are the front runners - coco crisp, jon lester, jed lowry, and a relief arm - that fits perfectly to what the twinkies want.

the only other team that can (and would, within reason) do as good is the angels..

'Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana', you're kidding right? Thanks for the morning laugh!!!

While I think just for his price and what he offers the Twinkies Reyes is by far and away enough.

To make you happy I'll take a step back Reyes + Fernando Martinez or Carlos Gomez would get the job done.

Why?

It fills 2 (three actually) big holes in the twins lineup - EXTREMELY cheaply

1) CF
2) SS (one of the most superior defenders in the game)
3) a batter who has shown to have spurts of being a great #1

Out of all of the players listed to be traded none come as close to as polished as Reyes - they are all prospects -- why? the twins want players they can lock up on the cheap as long as possible.

Reyes is due the following:

08 - $4mm
09 - $5.75mm
10 - $9mm
Team option for 2011 - $11m or a $500k buyout

H is also 24 years old, still developing, if he cools his jets with swinging for the long ball he could be a perrenial 310/10-15 HR/ 60-75 RBI guy at the top of anyones order and steal 70 bases for the next 10 or so years!

that's why I say reyes is enough to get it done.

With Gomez you get a CF who showed flashes of talent - though still raw - given a situation like MN he would not be under so much pressure and he costs:

08 - league minimum
09 - league minimum
10 - arb yr 1
11 - arb yr 2
12 - arb yr 3

that's 5 years of cheap production of of CF and 4 out of SS and the top of the order.

By far and away that's the best offer the twins could get.


The mets wont trade Reyes though.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: James3shin
Torii Hunter was on ESPN talking to Stephen A about how Johan might love to play in Boston with the Red Sox!!!! Torii Hunter said "Johan mentioned the NY Yankees, NY Mets, and Boston...Johan, David Ortiz and I came up together. Man, Johan and David act a fool in the club house." In the same interview, Mike also asked Torii, "Lemme make you a amateur manager, according to rumors, Boston is packaging Coco Crisp, John Lester, and Jed Lowery, a minor league SS, do you think that's light for Johan?" Torii replies, "Man, that's light! Johan is a beast! Johan is one of the best left handers in the league in the last 5 years..."

I agree that the Boston offer is light. They better throw in a ace. The Yanks have young players, just not at SS. The BEST offer is from the METS if they want Johan. Torii also mentioned that the Angels may be in line to get Erik Bedard! I know the Angels want Miguel Tejada as well, so they may work something out.

Throw in Tim Wakefield.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Santana is arguably the best or second best starting pitcher in the game. Sorry but you don't trade a stud SP for a lead-off player. No one would accept a Reyes for Santana trade.

 

[Spooner]

if the sox can get this done without getting rid of Jacoby or Bucholz, I think that would be amazing

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: James3shin
Oh and here is how I see it...

If the Yanks threw in Joba, with Phil and Melky, the Twins may bite.

If the Mets threw in J. Reyes with some of their young players, the Twins would definitely bite .

If the Red Sox are not willing to give up any aces, or possible aces from their pitching staff, making Minnesota uncomfy.

I'm thinking Johan is going to the fucking Mets....BOOOOOO!

dude - you are clueless.

Jose Reyes alone is enough for Santana, the mets are NOT trading Reyes.

The Sox are the front runners - coco crisp, jon lester, jed lowry, and a relief arm - that fits perfectly to what the twinkies want.

the only other team that can (and would, within reason) do as good is the angels..

NO WAY! The Red Sox package is LIGHT! Where is the ace, hell where is a decent named SP for the Twins in their package? As for Reyes alone being enough for Johan, that is ridiculous as well. How do you figure that in the first place? Johan dominates a game, does Reyes? For instance, when Jose is at the plate, would he take anything away from a dominate pitcher like Johan? I've seen Jose play and the man has RAAAANGE. Jose may be the best SS in the league and the Twins need a SS. The Twins also need a CF and a SP, and from what I'm hearing, the Mets have great young talent in the farm system as well.

Yeah the Mets say Jose is untouchable, and the Yanks say Joba is untouchable as well too, but we're talking about a YOUNG bonified ace in Johan, and they only come up every so often.

The Twins don't have all the leverage here. Teams know that there is no way they can resign him and that, if no deal is struck, he'll walk away and become a FA. Based on the fact the Yankees are refusing to make their best pitching prospects available, why should the Red Sox?

If the Twins want a good starter, they're getting one in Lester. The guy has really solid stuff, is coming off a tumultuous season, and would be the #3 starter in Boston if he stays (behind Dice-K and Beckett). He's more proven than Hughes (who, IMO is over-rated) and Kennedy. Coca is certainly better than Melky.

Basically, the Sox are offering more than anyone else at this point. If the Twins want to move Santana, they're going to have to deal at some point and, because of his contract status, they can't just hold on to him until the perfect deal comes along.

 

[pmoa]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Haven't the Yanks learned that you can't buy a championship?

Of course you can. They bought a bunch and the Red Sox bought theirs.

And so did st louis and white sox and.....I could go on....here in ATOT every team that wins a championship in any sport...has bought it

 

[michaelsslave]

Originally posted by: pyonir
As a Twins fan i hate to lose Santana, but it's not possible to resign him...so i'm excited to see what kind of deal they can get.

it would be possible to sign santana if we didnt have the biggest asshole owner in all of sports. i mean carl pohlad is one of the richest owners of a baseball franchise and yet the twins have one of the fewest payrolls. it annoys me to no end when we produce top level talent that will inevitably be shipped off.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Santana is arguably the best or second best starting pitcher in the game. Sorry but you don't trade a stud SP for a lead-off player. No one would accept a Reyes for Santana trade.

You do not see the economics of the issue.

It's to lock up a player cheap - Santana is zero value to the Twins - he's going to cost upwards of 130mm over 6 years (or more which he can command) - that's almost 22 million - about a third of the twins payroll.

If they can fill 2 of their gaps with a bonafide player they can.

Add a centerfielder (total of 3 gaps) they are good to go for the next 4-5 years at quite a bargain.

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

The Twins don't have all the leverage here.

what he said.

looking at the packages being offered - i'd take Reyes, Gomez over any of them. Even Reyes, Pelfrey

 

[James3shin]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Santana is arguably the best or second best starting pitcher in the game. Sorry but you don't trade a stud SP for a lead-off player. No one would accept a Reyes for Santana trade.

You do not see the economics of the issue.

It's to lock up a player cheap - Santana is zero value to the Twins - he's going to cost upwards of 130mm over 6 years (or more which he can command) - that's almost 22 million - about a third of the twins payroll.

If they can fill 2 of their gaps with a bonafide player they can.

Add a centerfielder (total of 3 gaps) they are good to go for the next 4-5 years at quite a bargain.

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

The Twins don't have all the leverage here.

what he said.

looking at the packages being offered - i'd take Reyes, Gomez over any of them. Even Reyes, Pelfrey

Hahah, I thought Jose was enough? Even with Gomez, the Twins will want at least one more prospect.

It is true that the Twins do not hold all the cards, but they hold the Ace everyone wants. So they can pretty much ask away, and it would actually be in the best interest of other teams to offer all they can for Johan right now before he hits the Free Agent Market, because we all know who has HEAVIEST gold bags under their eyes and that is the Yankees. If he's not traded, the Yankees will sign him/buy him.

God I should be studying.

 

[James3shin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin
Torii Hunter was on ESPN talking to Stephen A about how Johan might love to play in Boston with the Red Sox!!!! Torii Hunter said "Johan mentioned the NY Yankees, NY Mets, and Boston...Johan, David Ortiz and I came up together. Man, Johan and David act a fool in the club house." In the same interview, Mike also asked Torii, "Lemme make you a amateur manager, according to rumors, Boston is packaging Coco Crisp, John Lester, and Jed Lowery, a minor league SS, do you think that's light for Johan?" Torii replies, "Man, that's light! Johan is a beast! Johan is one of the best left handers in the league in the last 5 years..."

I agree that the Boston offer is light. They better throw in a ace. The Yanks have young players, just not at SS. The BEST offer is from the METS if they want Johan. Torii also mentioned that the Angels may be in line to get Erik Bedard! I know the Angels want Miguel Tejada as well, so they may work something out.

Throw in Tim Wakefield.

The Twins would probably want one of the young Red Sox aces Red Dawn.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: James3shin

It is true that the Twins do not hold all the cards, but they hold the Ace everyone wants. So they can pretty much ask away, and it would actually be in the best interest of other teams to offer all they can for Johan right now before he hits the Free Agent Market, because we all know who has HEAVIEST gold bags under their eyes and that is the Yankees. If he's not traded, the Yankees will sign him/buy him.

God I should be studying.

Usually, I'd tend to agree with you, but the Yankees haven't yet shown that they are willing to give up prospects. They're willing to throw around lots of money, like usual (Rivera, Posada) and, while the Yankees really could use Santana, that doesn't mean they'll do anything to get him.

The same can be said for the other major players in this deal. The Sox don't need him either. It'd be great to get him, but don't be surprised if the Yankees or Sox stop dealing if the price gets too steep.

The Twins have to be very careful. There's lots of interest, but that could all fade away quickly if they play too conservatively.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Santana is arguably the best or second best starting pitcher in the game. Sorry but you don't trade a stud SP for a lead-off player. No one would accept a Reyes for Santana trade.

You do not see the economics of the issue.

It's to lock up a player cheap - Santana is zero value to the Twins - he's going to cost upwards of 130mm over 6 years (or more which he can command) - that's almost 22 million - about a third of the twins payroll.

If they can fill 2 of their gaps with a bonafide player they can.

Add a centerfielder (total of 3 gaps) they are good to go for the next 4-5 years at quite a bargain.

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

The Twins don't have all the leverage here.

what he said.

looking at the packages being offered - i'd take Reyes, Gomez over any of them. Even Reyes, Pelfrey

Then why would they want Reyes since he's only affordable to the Twins for another two years?

Again, no team in major league baseball would trade Santana for Reyes straight-up when they can get much more value.

 

[Al Neri]

Then why would they want Reyes since he's only affordable to the Twins for another two years?

2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 = 4 years in my book

Again, no team in major league baseball would trade Santana for Reyes straight-up when they can get much more value.

At this point - with all that's been laid out on the table the Twins would gain the maximum benefit for Reyes & Gomez for Santana

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin
Torii Hunter was on ESPN talking to Stephen A about how Johan might love to play in Boston with the Red Sox!!!! Torii Hunter said "Johan mentioned the NY Yankees, NY Mets, and Boston...Johan, David Ortiz and I came up together. Man, Johan and David act a fool in the club house." In the same interview, Mike also asked Torii, "Lemme make you a amateur manager, according to rumors, Boston is packaging Coco Crisp, John Lester, and Jed Lowery, a minor league SS, do you think that's light for Johan?" Torii replies, "Man, that's light! Johan is a beast! Johan is one of the best left handers in the league in the last 5 years..."

I agree that the Boston offer is light. They better throw in a ace. The Yanks have young players, just not at SS. The BEST offer is from the METS if they want Johan. Torii also mentioned that the Angels may be in line to get Erik Bedard! I know the Angels want Miguel Tejada as well, so they may work something out.

Throw in Tim Wakefield.

The Twins would probably want one of the young Red Sox aces Red Dawn.

John Lester has already been offered, just add Wakefield to the mix. He's good for at least 12 wins a season.

 

[michaelsslave]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin
Torii Hunter was on ESPN talking to Stephen A about how Johan might love to play in Boston with the Red Sox!!!! Torii Hunter said "Johan mentioned the NY Yankees, NY Mets, and Boston...Johan, David Ortiz and I came up together. Man, Johan and David act a fool in the club house." In the same interview, Mike also asked Torii, "Lemme make you a amateur manager, according to rumors, Boston is packaging Coco Crisp, John Lester, and Jed Lowery, a minor league SS, do you think that's light for Johan?" Torii replies, "Man, that's light! Johan is a beast! Johan is one of the best left handers in the league in the last 5 years..."

I agree that the Boston offer is light. They better throw in a ace. The Yanks have young players, just not at SS. The BEST offer is from the METS if they want Johan. Torii also mentioned that the Angels may be in line to get Erik Bedard! I know the Angels want Miguel Tejada as well, so they may work something out.

Throw in Tim Wakefield.

The Twins would probably want one of the young Red Sox aces Red Dawn.

John Lester has already been offered, just add Wakefield to the mix. He's good for at least 12 wins a season.

i would not want wakefield in a twins uniform, hes old and not very good

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin
Torii Hunter was on ESPN talking to Stephen A about how Johan might love to play in Boston with the Red Sox!!!! Torii Hunter said "Johan mentioned the NY Yankees, NY Mets, and Boston...Johan, David Ortiz and I came up together. Man, Johan and David act a fool in the club house." In the same interview, Mike also asked Torii, "Lemme make you a amateur manager, according to rumors, Boston is packaging Coco Crisp, John Lester, and Jed Lowery, a minor league SS, do you think that's light for Johan?" Torii replies, "Man, that's light! Johan is a beast! Johan is one of the best left handers in the league in the last 5 years..."

I agree that the Boston offer is light. They better throw in a ace. The Yanks have young players, just not at SS. The BEST offer is from the METS if they want Johan. Torii also mentioned that the Angels may be in line to get Erik Bedard! I know the Angels want Miguel Tejada as well, so they may work something out.

Throw in Tim Wakefield.

The Twins would probably want one of the young Red Sox aces Red Dawn.

John Lester has already been offered, just add Wakefield to the mix. He's good for at least 12 wins a season.

wakefield goes nowhere - and i think the redsox just resigned him as a FA - so u can't sign and trade

there may have been some arbitration or extension - but i thought he hit the FA market.

either way - the twins are getting a boatload from the sox

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: James3shin
Torii Hunter was on ESPN talking to Stephen A about how Johan might love to play in Boston with the Red Sox!!!! Torii Hunter said "Johan mentioned the NY Yankees, NY Mets, and Boston...Johan, David Ortiz and I came up together. Man, Johan and David act a fool in the club house." In the same interview, Mike also asked Torii, "Lemme make you a amateur manager, according to rumors, Boston is packaging Coco Crisp, John Lester, and Jed Lowery, a minor league SS, do you think that's light for Johan?" Torii replies, "Man, that's light! Johan is a beast! Johan is one of the best left handers in the league in the last 5 years..."

I agree that the Boston offer is light. They better throw in a ace. The Yanks have young players, just not at SS. The BEST offer is from the METS if they want Johan. Torii also mentioned that the Angels may be in line to get Erik Bedard! I know the Angels want Miguel Tejada as well, so they may work something out.

Throw in Tim Wakefield.

The Twins would probably want one of the young Red Sox aces Red Dawn.

John Lester has already been offered, just add Wakefield to the mix. He's good for at least 12 wins a season.

wakefield goes nowhere - and i think the redsox just resigned him as a FA - so u can't sign and trade

there may have been some arbitration or extension - but i thought he hit the FA market.

either way - the twins are getting a boatload from the sox

Wakefield will retire a RS for a lot of reasons. First, he only wants to play for the Sox. If they tried to trade him, he'd just retire. Second, he costs $4 million / yr and delivers an above-average pitching performance and 200 innings / season. There is no better veteran pitcher for the dollar out there.

 

[BHeemsoth]

Jon Heyman (SI) is reporting that Hughes is involved now, and seems to think it is a done deal.

This is a bittersweet moment for me, as I've been watching Phil since 2004, and following his progress through the minors. However, when the chance comes along to get the best pitcher in baseball, I think you have to do it. The other players involved in the deal are Melky Cabrera and another prospect (hopefully not Action Jackson).

It looks like the Yankees will also be getting A. Jones or Rowand to fill the center field void. Although I'd prefer they wait to see if Damon is healthy and move him back to CF, freeing up the DH spot for Giambi, who will undoubtedly have a big contract year.

 

[aplefka]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Haven't the Yanks learned that you can't buy a championship?

Of course you can. They bought a bunch and the Red Sox bought theirs.

:roll:

How many series were won when the Yankees were the highest payroll in baseball? How many when the Sox were number two? Study the ratio long and hard, then get over the fact that your team lost this year in the first round.

 

[James3shin]

Originally posted by: rpbri2886
Jon Heyman (SI) is reporting that Hughes is involved now, and seems to think it is a done deal.

This is a bittersweet moment for me, as I've been watching Phil since 2004, and following his progress through the minors. However, when the chance comes along to get the best pitcher in baseball, I think you have to do it. The other players involved in the deal are Melky Cabrera and another prospect (hopefully not Action Jackson).

It looks like the Yankees will also be getting A. Jones or Rowand to fill the center field void. Although I'd prefer they wait to see if Damon is healthy and move him back to CF, freeing up the DH spot for Giambi, who will undoubtedly have a big contract year.

Andrew Jones was a BEAST at center but he's lost too many steps, and according to ESPN it sounds like they will indeed move Johnny Damon back to center. I'll be very excited if Phil,Melky and the 2nd tier prospect get traded for Johan. Now for the Bedard!

 

[BHeemsoth]

Originally posted by: James3shin

Originally posted by: rpbri2886
Jon Heyman (SI) is reporting that Hughes is involved now, and seems to think it is a done deal.

This is a bittersweet moment for me, as I've been watching Phil since 2004, and following his progress through the minors. However, when the chance comes along to get the best pitcher in baseball, I think you have to do it. The other players involved in the deal are Melky Cabrera and another prospect (hopefully not Action Jackson).

It looks like the Yankees will also be getting A. Jones or Rowand to fill the center field void. Although I'd prefer they wait to see if Damon is healthy and move him back to CF, freeing up the DH spot for Giambi, who will undoubtedly have a big contract year.

Andrew Jones was a BEAST at center but he's lost too many steps, and according to ESPN it sounds like they will indeed move Johnny Damon back to center. I'll be very excited if Phil,Melky and the 2nd tier prospect get traded for Johan. Now for the Bedard!

It's not that he's lost a step defensively, he's still a great defensive outfielder.

The problem lies in his all or nothing, rally killing .214 batting average. That being said I'd take him for a year over signing Rowand for four, if the Yankees are going to think externally. I just don't want to block Austin Jackson.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: aplefka

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Haven't the Yanks learned that you can't buy a championship?

Of course you can. They bought a bunch and the Red Sox bought theirs.

:roll:

How many series were won when the Yankees were the highest payroll in baseball? How many when the Sox were number two? Study the ratio long and hard, then get over the fact that your team lost this year in the first round.

Ohh, so if you're number 2 out of 30, it's not buying a championship, but if you're number 1 it is.

:laugh:

The two players most instrumental in the Sox series wins are Schilling and Beckett, BOTH of whom were salary dumps.