**OFFICIAL WAR THREAD** 7th Calvary fights off Iraqi attack; Bush seeks 75 billion for war

[Ylen13]

Not sure if this was posted but here are the pictures of us solder that were taken as POW and some other pictures. U will not see this on cnn as they chose not to show it.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index2&cid=23&pg=1&cap=1

 

[tikwanleap]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it is ever morally ok to use women and children as human shields. You may make an excuse for them using their religion as the reason, but I personally feel that it is wrong to do so.

People need to be firm and stand up for the enforcement of justice in this world instead of letting people getting away with crimes that are cruel and inhumane.

 

[Tripleshot]

>>>The honorable thing for the Iraqis to do is to realize that Saddam's regime is not worth giving up their lives for and to surrender peacefully. For people in power within the regime, it is true that it is a desparate time for them. They have everything to lose, so they will resort to desparate measures.<<<

Hmmm. I wonder, (just wondering) would that way of thinking be aplicable to us if China or USSR was on our soil trying to "liberate "us?

After watching some Al jazzer TV today, I can see that some very motivated people in Iraq would defend t othe death the only thing they know. Certainly their news sources have not conveyed to them the "joy" of living like americans,with freedom and democracy. Thay have scant little, and see us as taking even that from them. They may have no concept of our way of life.

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: tikwanleap

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it is ever morally ok to use women and children as human shields. You may make an excuse for them using their religion as the reason, but I personally feel that it is wrong to do so.

People need to be firm and stand up for the enforcement of justice in this world instead of letting people getting away with crimes that are cruel and inhumane.

in the time of war anything and everything goes!

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Jmman
I wonder if these journalists that are "embedded" are armed or not? There is no way I would be in their shoes without my own personal weapon just in case it really hits the fan.....

I wouldnt want a journalist in my unit to be armed... god knows who they'd start shooting at in the dark

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Jmman
I wonder if these journalists that are "embedded" are armed or not? There is no way I would be in their shoes without my own personal weapon just in case it really hits the fan.....

I wouldnt want a journalist in my unit to be armed... god knows who they'd start shooting at in the dark

some of them are ex solders

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: Ylen13
Not sure if this was posted but here are the pictures of us solder that were taken as POW and some other pictures. U will not see this on cnn as they chose not to show it.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index2&cid=23&pg=1&cap=1

Learn to link

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot

Originally posted by: Ylen13
Not sure if this was posted but here are the pictures of us solder that were taken as POW and some other pictures. U will not see this on cnn as they chose not to show it.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index2&cid=23&pg=1&cap=1

Learn to link

i was to lazy to link.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: tikwanleap

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe it is ever morally ok to use women and children as human shields. You may make an excuse for them using their religion as the reason, but I personally feel that it is wrong to do so.

People need to be firm and stand up for the enforcement of justice in this world instead of letting people getting away with crimes that are cruel and inhumane.

maybe saddam is paying their families 25k a head

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Wow... who is biased here? I know Arabs, and they DON'T agree with using these types of tactics. I am part of an Arab forum which, while against the American invasion, are deriding the current Iraqi tactics.

So before you come spewing you "cultural bias" speech, maybe you aught to know what you are talking about?

apparently you can't read. the word i used was "perhaps". i didn't claim it as fact. i didn't claim to understand it. what i did imply was that to me that culture is somewhat a mystery and that "perhaps" such might be the case.

i don't have to explain their behavior. i just know for a fact that when we went into vietnam we faced many of the same things and many of the same things were said of the vietcong, but just what exactly do you expect them to do??

as to your comment regarding arab groups, it's all nice and convenient when your not at war. it's harder to make sane decisions when you are being attacked by overwhelming forces.

i can imagine that the iraqi soldiers approach this was in much the same way that muslim terrorists do and that many of the same cultural and religious movitations will apply.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Jmman
I wonder if these journalists that are "embedded" are armed or not? There is no way I would be in their shoes without my own personal weapon just in case it really hits the fan.....

I wouldnt want a journalist in my unit to be armed... god knows who they'd start shooting at in the dark

BOOOO..RATTA-TAT-TAT.

 

[Ime]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Mainstream Islam does not support using women and children as human shields. If you don't believe me go to your local Mosque and ask them.

 

[tikwanleap]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
>>>The honorable thing for the Iraqis to do is to realize that Saddam's regime is not worth giving up their lives for and to surrender peacefully. For people in power within the regime, it is true that it is a desparate time for them. They have everything to lose, so they will resort to desparate measures.<<<

Hmmm. I wonder, (just wondering) would that way of thinking be aplicable to us if China or USSR was on our soil trying to "liberate "us?

After watching some Al jazzer TV today, I can see that some very motivated people in Iraq would defend t othe death the only thing they know. Certainly their news sources have not conveyed to them the "joy" of living like americans,with freedom and democracy. Thay have scant little, and see us as taking even that from them. They may have no concept of our way of life.

We would fight for our country and government because we are not being oppressed by our own government. Have you seen some of the reactions from some of the Iraq people to the US military? In some cases, there were people celebrating and happy that the US was there to overthrow Saddam's oppressive regime.

Although, we may make jokes about how "oppressive" our governments are , I doubt we would see the same reaction if China or USSR came to "liberate" us. That's difference from your hypothetical example and the current war in Iraq.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
>>>The honorable thing for the Iraqis to do is to realize that Saddam's regime is not worth giving up their lives for and to surrender peacefully. For people in power within the regime, it is true that it is a desparate time for them. They have everything to lose, so they will resort to desparate measures.<<<

Hmmm. I wonder, (just wondering) would that way of thinking be aplicable to us if China or USSR was on our soil trying to "liberate "us?

After watching some Al jazzer TV today, I can see that some very motivated people in Iraq would defend t othe death the only thing they know. Certainly their news sources have not conveyed to them the "joy" of living like americans,with freedom and democracy. Thay have scant little, and see us as taking even that from them. They may have no concept of our way of life.

thank you.

for them it's a choice of evil they know vs evil they do not know. what do you think they will choose?? what would you choose if you had the choice between the evil you know vs one you don't??

you say we aren't evil, and i agree, but how can they possibly know that??

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
We need an animated gif for an avatar.

I'm like to see it with Patton standing in the foreground....

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: Ime

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Mainstream Islam does not support using women and children as human shields. If you don't believe me go to your local Mosque and ask them.

We are in the middle of the war. If we were on the losing and absolutely had no chances of winning we would use any means necessary to hold as long as possible.

 

[Ime]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Wow... who is biased here? I know Arabs, and they DON'T agree with using these types of tactics. I am part of an Arab forum which, while against the American invasion, are deriding the current Iraqi tactics.

So before you come spewing you "cultural bias" speech, maybe you aught to know what you are talking about?

apparently you can't read. the word i used was "perhaps". i didn't claim it as fact. i didn't claim to understand it. what i did imply was that to me that culture is somewhat a mystery and that "perhaps" such might be the case.

i don't have to explain their behavior. i just know for a fact that when we went into vietnam we faced many of the same things and many of the same things were said of the vietcong, but just what exactly do you expect them to do??

as to your comment regarding arab groups, it's all nice and convenient when your not at war. it's harder to make sane decisions when you are being attacked by overwhelming forces.

i can imagine that the iraqi soldiers approach this was in much the same way that muslim terrorists do and that many of the same cultural and religious movitations will apply.

This is very interesting.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Ime

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Wow... who is biased here? I know Arabs, and they DON'T agree with using these types of tactics. I am part of an Arab forum which, while against the American invasion, are deriding the current Iraqi tactics.

So before you come spewing you "cultural bias" speech, maybe you aught to know what you are talking about?

apparently you can't read. the word i used was "perhaps". i didn't claim it as fact. i didn't claim to understand it. what i did imply was that to me that culture is somewhat a mystery and that "perhaps" such might be the case.

i don't have to explain their behavior. i just know for a fact that when we went into vietnam we faced many of the same things and many of the same things were said of the vietcong, but just what exactly do you expect them to do??

as to your comment regarding arab groups, it's all nice and convenient when your not at war. it's harder to make sane decisions when you are being attacked by overwhelming forces.

i can imagine that the iraqi soldiers approach this was in much the same way that muslim terrorists do and that many of the same cultural and religious movitations will apply.

This is very interesting.

WRONG, read again. i never claimed to understand their CULTURE, just their MOTIVATION.

 

[Emos]

There are pics released on drudge report that show some of the dead US POWs. The faces are blurred to hid their identities, God rest their souls.

 

[Ime]

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: Ime

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Mainstream Islam does not support using women and children as human shields. If you don't believe me go to your local Mosque and ask them.

We are in the middle of the war. If we were on the losing and absolutely had no chances of winning we would use any means necessary to hold as long as possible.

I disagree, no present day American soldier I know (and I know quite a few being from a Navy family) would ever hide behind a civilian.

 

[conjur]

The main thing that concerned me at the outset of this was that surrendering Iraqi soldiers would not be disarmed. My first thought was they could feign surrender and as we passed they would attack us from behind.

That has now come to pass.

Time to disarm each and every one of them and put them in cuffs. If they resist disarming, pull back and drop a MOAB!

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Ime

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Mainstream Islam does not support using women and children as human shields. If you don't believe me go to your local Mosque and ask them.

logic doesn't exactly apply to them third world idiots in Iraq

 

[Ime]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Ime

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: datalink7




There are certain things you just don't effing do. These don't just include indicriminate nukeing... but also herding women to miltary targets to be "shields", and wearing civilian clothing if you are in the military.

I don't understand what you guys want the Iraqis to do. We invade their country with a force they cannot defeat, and then expect them to play by the rules? To simply yell at their prisoners a bit before sending them to bed without dinner?

They can ambush. Snipe. These "evil" kinds of strategies, but they are allowed. This is war after all.

What is NOT acceptable is using women and children as shileds and pretending to be civilians.

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

they are defending their homeland and as far as they are concerned everyone is expendable.

I don't agree with it, but i understand it.

Wow... who is biased here? I know Arabs, and they DON'T agree with using these types of tactics. I am part of an Arab forum which, while against the American invasion, are deriding the current Iraqi tactics.

So before you come spewing you "cultural bias" speech, maybe you aught to know what you are talking about?

apparently you can't read. the word i used was "perhaps". i didn't claim it as fact. i didn't claim to understand it. what i did imply was that to me that culture is somewhat a mystery and that "perhaps" such might be the case.

i don't have to explain their behavior. i just know for a fact that when we went into vietnam we faced many of the same things and many of the same things were said of the vietcong, but just what exactly do you expect them to do??

as to your comment regarding arab groups, it's all nice and convenient when your not at war. it's harder to make sane decisions when you are being attacked by overwhelming forces.

i can imagine that the iraqi soldiers approach this was in much the same way that muslim terrorists do and that many of the same cultural and religious movitations will apply.

This is very interesting.

WRONG, read again. i never claimed to understand their CULTURE, just their MOTIVATION.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[datalink7]

apparently you can't read. the word i used was "perhaps". i didn't claim it as fact.

Oh really? Well, let us look at what you wrote:

that is a cultural bias. perhaps for them and with their religion they find it acceptable to do so. you can't apply your rules to them.

You start out with "that is a cultural bias." Where, exactly, is the word "perhaps" in here? I don't see it.

OH! There it is, in the next sentence. But wait, you already established, by way of the first premise, that it is my "cultural bias." So therefore the "perhaps" must apply, not to that first sentence, but to the second. So it is perhaps "their religion" that makes it acceptable for them to use these tactics.

You didn't say it was "perhaps" my cultural bias. You said it IS my cultural bias. Then you say "perhaps" it is "their religion." But all this means is that is that it might be their religion, or some other reason, but no matter what my view "is a cultural bias."

You then conclude that one "can't apply your rules to them."

Pretty clear cut to me. You straight up told me that I am "culturally biased" and can't "apply my rules to them."

Maybe it is YOU who can't read what you wrote down? Or perhaps you just need a lesson in English?

 

[Ime]

Originally posted by: conjur
The main thing that concerned me at the outset of this was that surrendering Iraqi soldiers would not be disarmed. My first thought was they could feign surrender and as we passed they would attack us from behind.

That has now come to pass.

Time to disarm each and every one of them and put them in cuffs. If they resist disarming, pull back and drop a MOAB!

It is standard military procedure to disarm all POW's. As for exactly how this happened, give it a few years and you'll be able to see a Discovery Channel special about it.