**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[CVSiN]

How is TOR going to be different? People will grind to end game, then there will be bosses to farm for purples. Once the stuff gets stale, EA will ship out an expansion pack for $60 so you can level up a little more, kill a couple more bosses for higher level purples. Having voice acting doesn't change the MMO structure if you don't sandbox it.

If you sandbox it, then you have the EVE universe which is amazing since players dictate how territories are gained or loss, how the environment changes in addition to new content being released.

So it's either developer dictated WoW MMO structure and boss killing or player dictated sandbox expansion where people do what they want.

I for one would much rather have Bioware Crafting me a story than a player driven sandbox..
eve was a huge suckfest if you ask me..
they got less than 1 month play out of me before I left.

WoW no one really gives a flying flip about the story.. I know I don't think I ever read one quest other than where to go and what to kill the rest was not important in that game.
The only exceptions would be of course the RP servers for the most part.

where here you are talked to and brought into the story where it makes you feel you are a part of the story not just someone fetching 3 orc eyeballs for no reason.
This feels more like a single player game that also has a much bigger feel to it.

I really dont think they have much to fear. people are going to love it.

 

[frozentundra123456]

To all those who are "criticizing" single player games as being too short: That is why I would have much preferred a single player KOTOR 3. I want a game that I can play and "beat" as light side and/or dark side and have the satisfaction of finishing the game and completing the storyline. Not to mention that I would have liked to have a resolution to the story from the first two games.

An MMO that goes on and on and on (don't they all?) with no final resolution of the story has no appeal to me. It is like going to a movie that has an unresolved ending, What is the point. I play a game or go to a movie to escape from real life and see situations and storylines resolved, something you can actually "win".

 

[Mem]

I for one would much rather have Bioware Crafting me a story than a player driven sandbox..
eve was a huge suckfest if you ask me..
they got less than 1 month play out of me before I left.

WoW no one really gives a flying flip about the story.. I know I don't think I ever read one quest other than where to go and what to kill the rest was not important in that game.
The only exceptions would be of course the RP servers for the most part.

where here you are talked to and brought into the story where it makes you feel you are a part of the story not just someone fetching 3 orc eyeballs for no reason.
This feels more like a single player game that also has a much bigger feel to it.

I really dont think they have much to fear. people are going to love it.

I want more then just a story in ToR MMORPG,especially if I'm playing a sub every month,besides if I just want a story I can go and buy a Star Wars book which I would do and a lot cheaper.
They want us to pay for game and sub they have to earn it.

I would also say its not unreasonable to want or expect more then just a storyline,especially when it is MMORPG.

 

[Arsinek]

I for one would much rather have Bioware Crafting me a story than a player driven sandbox..
eve was a huge suckfest if you ask me..
they got less than 1 month play out of me before I left.

WoW no one really gives a flying flip about the story.. I know I don't think I ever read one quest other than where to go and what to kill the rest was not important in that game.
The only exceptions would be of course the RP servers for the most part.

where here you are talked to and brought into the story where it makes you feel you are a part of the story not just someone fetching 3 orc eyeballs for no reason.
This feels more like a single player game that also has a much bigger feel to it.

I really dont think they have much to fear. people are going to love it.

Well the story could only keep my attention to level 14. If a game lacks "game" and is only a page turner youre going to lose peoples attention. There has to be enough for me to do in the game besides questing to make it interesting. Confining games with a narrow path to walk bore me.

Im much more interested in a game that revolves around players then a game that revolves around NPCs.

A player driven economy based off of player crafted goods which were made from player harvested resources is much more appealing to me then grinding NPCs for gear.

 

[DrunkenSano]

A story driven game is a single player game, if you try to slot that into a MMO, it doesn't work. You already ruin the story when you go to farm bosses over and over again. And the story stops once you hit endgame. No one cares about the story, WoW or not, when you hit endgame because all you are doing is grinding for gear over and over again, either relying on RNG loot or collecting a ton of badges/currency/whatever to get the purples you want.

If you really want a story driven game, ask for a single player game.

 

[Arsinek]

To all those who are "criticizing" single player games as being too short: That is why I would have much preferred a single player KOTOR 3. I want a game that I can play and "beat" as light side and/or dark side and have the satisfaction of finishing the game and completing the storyline. Not to mention that I would have liked to have a resolution to the story from the first two games.

An MMO that goes on and on and on (don't they all?) with no final resolution of the story has no appeal to me. It is like going to a movie that has an unresolved ending, What is the point. I play a game or go to a movie to escape from real life and see situations and storylines resolved, something you can actually "win".

I dont think MMOs are supposed to have an end, thats the whole point. Its a world not a story.

 

[CVSiN]

A story driven game is a single player game, if you try to slot that into a MMO, it doesn't work. You already ruin the story when you go to farm bosses over and over again. And the story stops once you hit endgame. No one cares about the story, WoW or not, when you hit endgame because all you are doing is grinding for gear over and over again, either relying on RNG loot or collecting a ton of badges/currency/whatever to get the purples you want.

If you really want a story driven game, ask for a single player game.

That is a total load of dogcrap and you know it.
And who says this is going to be a loot/grind fest.. who says this is WoW in space.. none of the videos come off that way.

they are all 100% story driven encounters which is awesome.

people need to quit comparing shit to WoW.. and play things with an open mind.

WoW as good as it WAS.. now sucks ass... I put years of my life into that game and all it turned out to be was nothing more than hanging out with assholes that only care about themselves and how fast you can kill the encounter and get Phat loots.. I quit after Cata with 3 85s and I'm flat done never to return.
at 40 years old I'm looking for more out of my game time now.
you can have an interactive story with a real MMO as well.
There is nothing wrong with innovating here..
why does everything have to be so black and white with people..
99% of this board has not even stepped inside the game at all. and most of you have already passed judgement on it.

The game is going to have a ton going for it.
why dont we all quit talking out our asses and give it a shot then come blab about how bad or good it is?

I really dont get people.. people are so negative and jaded now.
not willing to try anything "new"

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

That is a total load of dogcrap and you know it.
And who says this is going to be a loot/grind fest.. who says this is WoW in space.. none of the videos come off that way.

Speaking of "in-space". Are there any zones set inside space stations or capital starships? THAT would be so awesome.

 

[CVSiN]

Speaking of "in-space". Are there any zones set inside space stations or capital starships? THAT would be so awesome.

yes there are on both.
and there is video on youtube to back that up..
in fact one was linked a few pages back on this thread.

 

[Beev]

Well I can't wait, for a beta invite or retail. I just want to play!

My starship will be the Rapekit Express

 

[Mem]

That is a total load of dogcrap and you know it.
And who says this is going to be a loot/grind fest.. who says this is WoW in space.. none of the videos come off that way.

they are all 100% story driven encounters which is awesome.

people need to quit comparing shit to WoW.. and play things with an open mind.

WoW as good as it WAS.. now sucks ass... I put years of my life into that game and all it turned out to be was nothing more than hanging out with assholes that only care about themselves and how fast you can kill the encounter and get Phat loots.. I quit after Cata with 3 85s and I'm flat done never to return.
at 40 years old I'm looking for more out of my game time now.
you can have an interactive story with a real MMO as well.
There is nothing wrong with innovating here..
why does everything have to be so black and white with people..
99% of this board has not even stepped inside the game at all. and most of you have already passed judgement on it.

The game is going to have a ton going for it.
why dont we all quit talking out our asses and give it a shot then come blab about how bad or good it is?

I really dont get people.. people are so negative and jaded now.
not willing to try anything "new"

Sometimes it feels like a grind in ToR especially when you get a quest that says go and kill 12 pirates etc ... so off you go and complete that,then you get a popup saying kill 25 more or kill 25 specific mobs so you are checking the pirates for right class etc... for bonus so you do that then you get kill leader bonus so you go after him and find he has his minions around him so you complete the killing leader/ mob cycle and this goes on and on for more then a few quests,sure you get bonus xp for doing bonus stuff like that but still feels bit like a grind.

Worst thing is the running around on foot ,I wish mounts were available earlier rather then 25 level,it costs more to get a taxi /swoop ride then it does to fly to a planet with your ship.

 

[darkewaffle]

I guess I don't understand that logic. Do you ever replay single player games, or levels within them? If so it's the same thing.

Not often, I've replayed God of War 1 + 2 a couple times and I'm almost finished with a Skies of Arcadia replay and I've played Super Mario RPG a few times, but that may be about it.

But even then that's not really my point, I was moreso getting at the fact that it feels empty when the big bosses are such discrete encounters. With many of them you never (I never) got the impression from the game that there was any sort of interaction between them, as though they have no idea the others exist. Aside from a few narrowly scripted storylines, I don't recall ever seeing them interact. Plus there's the whole "why is x stronger than y when x is a god and y is just a mortal etc". Really none of it matters, but seeing as there's so little to do in WoW aside from killing the bosses over and over, I feel like fleshing them out more and giving them more personality and depth would really enhance the experience.

How is TOR going to be different? People will grind to end game, then there will be bosses to farm for purples. Once the stuff gets stale, EA will ship out an expansion pack for $60 so you can level up a little more, kill a couple more bosses for higher level purples. Having voice acting doesn't change the MMO structure if you don't sandbox it.

Didn't say it would, in fact I would advise against changing it given how successful (and easy) the formula is. Personally I don't get it, but it's undeniable that as long as you keep the ever higher level items rolling in at a steady clip, people will stay subscribed and you've got happy endgamers.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Here's something I don't recall being discussed yet.

Can we expect to see half the players two boxing multiple accounts from day one, plus several 6 man and higher box armies?

 

[smackababy]

Here's something I don't recall being discussed yet.

Can we expect to see half the players two boxing multiple accounts from day one, plus several 6 man and higher box armies?

I don't see how they could stop it from happening. If people want to do that, more power to them I say. It isn't like they are unbeatable it PVP. Same in WoW, just fear them and target main.

 

[Beev]

Here's something I don't recall being discussed yet.

Can we expect to see half the players two boxing multiple accounts from day one, plus several 6 man and higher box armies?

I know you were exaggerating, but half of the players is a little much. People multibox in every MMO, this one won't be any better or worse I bet.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

I don't see how they could stop it from happening. If people want to do that, more power to them I say. It isn't like they are unbeatable it PVP. Same in WoW, just fear them and target main.

You're right about PVP but that's not really why I wonder. It's just that box armies don't invite people lol, leaving less people for the 1 character folks to group with.

 

[HumblePie]

Personally I WANT an MMO to finally put back the last three letters into the genre back. Those being RPG. These games were originally supposed to be an MMORPG genre, but they have moved away from that to just be MMO's. There is no real role playing or story elements to the games anymore. There is a quick text blurb for some quests here and there, but they aren't immersive. This isn't the days of MUDs anymore where reading text was required to play the game. There at least you got the story because you were forced to read to play. In the current MMO market the player isn't really forced to read much to play. Just the quest objective of "Do X Action" and "Get Y Reward." That is it.

I've been stating for years that until a game actively incorporates story elements that draw players in, no MMO is going to dethrone WoW. Which means that the game will require not just cut scenes, but voice overs and acting from the NPCS at all times. EQ2 almost did this and I was damn impressed with the game for that reason only. Of course it fell flat on it's face in other ways.

Still to make a game compete in today's market for an MMO it is going to need the following.

1) Simple to play, but difficult to master game mechanics. WoW is too simple and Eve is to difficult in my examples. You need a game that a 7 year old can play but also have the depth to allow those that wish to tinker endlessly can do so to "master" for advantages.

2) Good graphics. Crappy graphics won't get you anywhere in the current market if you want to reach the top of the market share. This includes good animations as well.

3) An immersive environment. Voice overs for ALL npcs is what is needed. NPC's acting like NPCs and not just static scenery with a damn punctuation mark over their head as a quest dispenser. Rift sort of started this with having factional based "rift" monsters that at least fight each other. Still it was just the tip of the iceberg for NPC interaction. It needs to be more in depth. The reason people still play Dungeons and Dragons after all these years is for INTERACTION. Of course the game masters are doing it for the players, but with the right and proper coding many dynamic things can be done with npcs these days. And not just limit that to a few npcs.

4) Relatively bug free. Leaving gaping exploits in the game that allow players to rush to the end level in a short time for a massive game advantage over other players who do not use those cheats has caused many a player to leave a game. Including myself. Especially when PVP is taken into account. Also game breaking bugs have put off players from games before. Vangaurd was killed because of massive game breaking bugs. I had my character stuck under the world for a whole week during the first free month before a GM finally fished the character out. I was pissed!

5) Balanced game play. Warhammer suffered severely from this. The game was just not balanced at all. WoW went through stages of this as well. Luckily WoW was big enough by then to absorb any lost player accounts they had do to these reasons. Still games like Shadowbane and others, especially PVP based games, suffer from poorly balanced game play. Most of the balance is so bad a 6 year old can figure it out in a few days of playing. I know because I've seen it. Some imbalance is going to be inherent in any game of this sort. Still there is a difference between slight imbalances that may let player X kill boss creature Y in 10 seconds faster than a major imbalance that lets player X kill boss creature Y by himself faster than it takes players T, U, and V to the same creature together. Let alone when that major imbalance spills over into PVP.

6) Smooth launch. Major down times, queues, and client instability are going to kill a newly released game faster than Casey Anthony killed her... oh wait she was acquitted! There is no excuse in this day and age to have any of these types of problems. Hardware is fast and cheap compared to a decade ago. Connections are faster and so are clients. I would rather have a company up the minimum requirements for hardware and connection to play than to deal with people having crap computers and problems because of them.

7) Content, content, content! Despite best of efforts, players are going to race to the "end" of any game just for bragging rights. Sure artificial time sinks can be implemented, such as say Eve's Skill queue, but that only leads to boredom and frustration. Still some time sinks are required but they need to be done with FUN in mind. Also don't force one type of time sink as the only way. Allow for alternatives. But make sure they all take roughly the same time and skill to do. Otherwise most players will take the quick and easy road every time. Especially those racing for the end.

8) GENTLY force player interaction. This is an online game, not a single player game. Still, no one likes forced grouping. Allow some alternatives for solo play, but force some interaction with out hamfisting it. SWG tried to do this with cantina's in making players have to go there to recover their mind, but most players didn't like staring at naked dancing wookies.

The idea is gentlely force the interactions. Make small incentives for players to want to interact with each other, and not just grouping up to kill monsters. Don't make the incentives so small that it isn't worth the hassle of finding players to interact with, but don't force players to HAVE to do it either. At least not all the time. For example it is perfectly acceptable to force people to group to kill a boss. That is a limited time interaction. Forcing people to group to walk through an entire zone is something else entirely and should not be done.


Well that's about it. If BIOWARE accomplishes what I listed above they will do well.

 

[Arsinek]

If all you want is story just play a single player game. Why would you want an MMO if story is your main interest?

I like MMOs because I like to play against people. Its much more challenging and rewarding beating another player then beating an NPC.

 

[HumblePie]

If all you want is story just play a single player game. Why would you want an MMO if story is your main interest?

I like MMOs because I like to play against people. Its much more challenging and rewarding beating another player then beating an NPC.

Umm, you are of short sight.

I want a CO-OP story. A story I can interact with friends with. When I want a linear story I do play a single player game. What I WANT and many others is an actual MMORPG like we had back in the days of MUDs. I get by somewhat with D&D and things like OpenRPG. Still it is not the same. I want an actual MMORPG along with many, many, many others. If you want a grouping grind fest of a game there are PLENTY of those to chose from in the MMO genre right now. Pick your poison and play it. Right now there are no story driven MMO's out there at all. Final Fantasy tried to do this, but failed. It had story arcs with some cutscenes, but no real story. Definitely not a story that most from the western Hemisphere wanted to follow.

Unfortunately too many single player games with a good story still suffer from bad game mechanics. So many of the "good story" single player games aren't worth playing. Bioware has shown over the years it can consistently deliver a good story driven single player game with at least decent to good game play mechanics. Not the best of game play mechanics, but decent enough usually. I mean with Mass Effect 1 you didn't HAVE to go to every planet with that stupid Mako if you didn't want to.

This is why SW:TOR had such high hopes from many true gaming geeks. Finally an MMO that puts RPG back into the genre is what we are all hoping for. Perhaps one that has learned from the stupid game play mechanic mistakes of all the other failed MMOs to date. Especially the ones that went under.

I had these same hopes for the last Final Fantasy MMO that came out and that turned out to be crap. Especially with the massive game release day nerfs to everything to add major time sinks. I mean the time sinks were bad enough, but they really went overboard. That and the story just wasn't enough to draw the player in.


Again MMO's need to look past little text blurbs for immersion. Any future MMO that wants to be successful NEEDS to have voice overs for ALL npcs and interactions. They need to make a player feel like his character is part of the world, the story, and has a purpose besides reaching the cap level and going for phat loot.

 

[CVSiN]

Umm, you are of short sight.

I want a CO-OP story. A story I can interact with friends with. When I want a linear story I do play a single player game. What I WANT and many others is an actual MMORPG like we had back in the days of MUDs. I get by somewhat with D&D and things like OpenRPG. Still it is not the same. I want an actual MMORPG along with many, many, many others. If you want a grouping grind fest of a game there are PLENTY of those to chose from in the MMO genre right now. Pick your poison and play it. Right now there are no story driven MMO's out there at all. Final Fantasy tried to do this, but failed. It had story arcs with some cutscenes, but no real story. Definitely not a story that most from the western Hemisphere wanted to follow.

Unfortunately too many single player games with a good story still suffer from bad game mechanics. So many of the "good story" single player games aren't worth playing. Bioware has shown over the years it can consistently deliver a good story driven single player game with at least decent to good game play mechanics. Not the best of game play mechanics, but decent enough usually. I mean with Mass Effect 1 you didn't HAVE to go to every planet with that stupid Mako if you didn't want to.

This is why SW:TOR had such high hopes from many true gaming geeks. Finally an MMO that puts RPG back into the genre is what we are all hoping for. Perhaps one that has learned from the stupid game play mechanic mistakes of all the other failed MMOs to date. Especially the ones that went under.

I had these same hopes for the last Final Fantasy MMO that came out and that turned out to be crap. Especially with the massive game release day nerfs to everything to add major time sinks. I mean the time sinks were bad enough, but they really went overboard. That and the story just wasn't enough to draw the player in.


Again MMO's need to look past little text blurbs for immersion. Any future MMO that wants to be successful NEEDS to have voice overs for ALL npcs and interactions. They need to make a player feel like his character is part of the world, the story, and has a purpose besides reaching the cap level and going for phat loot.

this x infinity.. and beyond..
not everyone just wants a crap ton of grinding for no reason other than a better piece of gear and a harder boss. and why would I want to play alone when a MMO is a living breathing universe?

 

[Arsinek]

Well, story is cool I guess, never really been that big of an issue to me. I find game play more important. An epic battle is what I want, chatting NPCs, meh.

 

[CVSiN]

Well, story is cool I guess, never really been that big of an issue to me. I find game play more important. An epic battle is what I want, chatting NPCs, meh.

and that's exactly what you will get.. Star Wars style.. with full voiceover and meaningful decisions..

What would Star Wars be without epic battles? jar jar and a Whiney Aniken come to mind.. no thanks 😀

 

[Nintendesert]

Umm, you are of short sight.

I want a CO-OP story. A story I can interact with friends with. When I want a linear story I do play a single player game. What I WANT and many others is an actual MMORPG like we had back in the days of MUDs. I get by somewhat with D&D and things like OpenRPG. Still it is not the same. I want an actual MMORPG along with many, many, many others. If you want a grouping grind fest of a game there are PLENTY of those to chose from in the MMO genre right now. Pick your poison and play it. Right now there are no story driven MMO's out there at all. Final Fantasy tried to do this, but failed. It had story arcs with some cutscenes, but no real story. Definitely not a story that most from the western Hemisphere wanted to follow.

Unfortunately too many single player games with a good story still suffer from bad game mechanics. So many of the "good story" single player games aren't worth playing. Bioware has shown over the years it can consistently deliver a good story driven single player game with at least decent to good game play mechanics. Not the best of game play mechanics, but decent enough usually. I mean with Mass Effect 1 you didn't HAVE to go to every planet with that stupid Mako if you didn't want to.

This is why SW:TOR had such high hopes from many true gaming geeks. Finally an MMO that puts RPG back into the genre is what we are all hoping for. Perhaps one that has learned from the stupid game play mechanic mistakes of all the other failed MMOs to date. Especially the ones that went under.

I had these same hopes for the last Final Fantasy MMO that came out and that turned out to be crap. Especially with the massive game release day nerfs to everything to add major time sinks. I mean the time sinks were bad enough, but they really went overboard. That and the story just wasn't enough to draw the player in.


Again MMO's need to look past little text blurbs for immersion. Any future MMO that wants to be successful NEEDS to have voice overs for ALL npcs and interactions. They need to make a player feel like his character is part of the world, the story, and has a purpose besides reaching the cap level and going for phat loot.

Very true. And there were so many times while playing KOTOR and Mass Effect when I thought that having a multi-player experience would be awesome. And this is how I'm approaching TOR.

 

[Arsinek]

and that's exactly what you will get.. Star Wars style.. with full voiceover and meaningful decisions..

What would Star Wars be without epic battles? jar jar and a Whiney Aniken come to mind.. no thanks 😀

I hope youre right.

 

[Mandres]

If all you want is story just play a single player game. Why would you want an MMO if story is your main interest?

I like MMOs because I like to play against people. Its much more challenging and rewarding beating another player then beating an NPC.

I think this is exactly what looks to be missing for TOR. MMO's have always been, and will always be, about competition among the players. Everyone wants to be the best: the strongest, the prettiest, the highest level, etc. That's the driving factor that hooks a million people and drives them to pay $15/mo. and play for 18 hours/day.

Stars Wars stories are all well and good, but I don't believe story means a damn thing after the first month. They can't create new content as fast as people can finish it, and once you've watched the cutscene once it's just a hassle to have to sit through it again.

In the end there are two things that keep people subscribed and playing: grinding for gear progression and/or PvP. It's alarming to me that we haven't heard much excitement about either one yet.

But on the other hand people whose opinion I trust have said that they're having fun in beta, so I'm going to check it out if there's an open beta. I'm definitely not dropping $150 on a collector's edition pre-order though (lol).