**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[Arsinek]

I think this is exactly what looks to be missing for TOR. MMO's have always been, and will always be, about competition among the players. Everyone wants to be the best: the strongest, the prettiest, the highest level, etc. That's the driving factor that hooks people and drives them to pay $15/mo. and play for 18 hours/day.

Stars Wars stories are all well and good, but I don't believe story means a damn thing after the first month. They can't create new content as fast as people can finish it, and once you've watched the cutscene once it's just a hassle to have to sit through it again.

In the end there are two things that keep people subscribed and playing: grinding for gear progression and/or PvP. It's alarming to me that we haven't heard much excitement about either one yet.

But on the other hand people whose opinion I trust have said that they're having fun in beta, so I'm going to check it out if there's an open beta. I'm definitely not dropping $150 on a collector's edition pre-order though (lol).

I THINK, next beta release is supposed to have a world PVP area. Well see. But actually the game was so laggy even the battlegrounds werent fun. You hit a button and the action happens a second later. Makes pvp lame. So Im also hoping next beta build has some sort of improvement for the lag issues.

 

[CVSiN]

I think this is exactly what looks to be missing for TOR. MMO's have always been, and will always be, about competition among the players. Everyone wants to be the best: the strongest, the prettiest, the highest level, etc. That's the driving factor that hooks a million people and drives them to pay $15/mo. and play for 18 hours/day.

Stars Wars stories are all well and good, but I don't believe story means a damn thing after the first month. They can't create new content as fast as people can finish it, and once you've watched the cutscene once it's just a hassle to have to sit through it again.

In the end there are two things that keep people subscribed and playing: grinding for gear progression and/or PvP. It's alarming to me that we haven't heard much excitement about either one yet.

But on the other hand people whose opinion I trust have said that they're having fun in beta, so I'm going to check it out if there's an open beta. I'm definitely not dropping $150 on a collector's edition pre-order though (lol).

those types of people are the 1%.. not the norm by any stretch of the truth.
That shows how out of touch the die hard WoW players are.. they look at those people as weak and slow but in reality they are they ones that really keep the money coming in.


the average joe may take years to get to max level and may never ever see a raid in his entire game span.. and they spend just as much money and more than the 1%ers that jump from content to content faster than the devs can make it..

There are more of those types of people than the super uber people in the top guilds on each server.

All you need to do is look at the guilds that are knocking down content on each server ( there are websites that track this) and you will see only the very elite of each server are actually knocking down all the content and driving for the next piece of gear.

 

[rasczak]

those types of people are the 1%.. not the norm by any stretch of the truth.
That shows how out of touch the die hard WoW players are.. they look at those people as weak and slow but in reality they are they ones that really keep the money coming in.


the average joe may take years to get to max level and may never ever see a raid in his entire game span.. and they spend just as much money and more than the 1%ers that jump from content to content faster than the devs can make it..

There are more of those types of people than the super uber people in the top guilds on each server.

All you need to do is look at the guilds that are knocking down content on each server ( there are websites that track this) and you will see only the very elite of each server are actually knocking down all the content and driving for the next piece of gear.

I just so happen to be one of those types. 🙂 Life takes precedence when it comes to gaming, especially the mmorpg types. children, wives, husbands, work. When I game, I game for a half hour to an hour at most a day if I'm lucky to de-stress.

Back on-topic, this game looks interesting.

 

[HumblePie]

I think this is exactly what looks to be missing for TOR. MMO's have always been, and will always be, about competition among the players. Everyone wants to be the best: the strongest, the prettiest, the highest level, etc. That's the driving factor that hooks a million people and drives them to pay $15/mo. and play for 18 hours/day.

Stars Wars stories are all well and good, but I don't believe story means a damn thing after the first month. They can't create new content as fast as people can finish it, and once you've watched the cutscene once it's just a hassle to have to sit through it again.

In the end there are two things that keep people subscribed and playing: grinding for gear progression and/or PvP. It's alarming to me that we haven't heard much excitement about either one yet.

But on the other hand people whose opinion I trust have said that they're having fun in beta, so I'm going to check it out if there's an open beta. I'm definitely not dropping $150 on a collector's edition pre-order though (lol).

Again VERY short sighted. You are in WoW thought mode big time. Get out of it.

You keep thinking that players will "blow through" stories. Or they become a hindrance to game. This is where you are wrong as many single player games in the past HAVE done it correctly.

Yes, some people are out for reaching that cap or that supposed feeling of being "better" than everyone else. More power to them I suppose. I get that feeling from time to time as well when I play. Heck I remember spending weeks twinking out a character for WoW battle grounds Warsong Gulch when it was first released so that character COULD be the best there. And it was. But that is besides the point. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN DO THIS IN EVERY EFFING MMO TO DATE!!!!


/breathes...

Pick any MMO out there and you can be the guy that tries to "be the best" of the game. They all have that and that is not a draw to a game despite what you are claiming.

PvP in an MMO is usually always hampered by junk mechanics. You either have high levels slaughtering people that are lesser than them or gank fests. Many MMOs have implemented arena style PvP "games" to get by these mechanics that really only griefers and hardcore players (the minority of players) enjoy anyhow. Still, the nature of a character that "grows" in power in a PvP setting where different characters have different "powers" makes the PvP aspect inherently imbalanced.



The point I'm making is that a DYNAMIC story driven game is completely possible. It's not something that can be done quickly, but it can be done. Meaning you don't do the "same cutscene over again" ever. Your decisions affects your character and the story in ways that have ramifications you can't duplicate easily. A well made story game will give you enough options that it will seem like an infinite amount. Or more than you can do in a few weeks of play time as you've been led to expect from playing too much WoW. Nor would they be Kill X, or Collect Y, or Escort Z missions. Sure those will be there, but there is more that can be done than that. Sure ultimately there is a limited number of actions you can make in a video game and that will never change, but there is a way to make those actions feel like more than they are. Make a quest where you have to play a diplomat to stop or start a war between factions for example. That's just one idea off the top of my head. There are soo many ways through a story plot devices to draw a player in and make their character FEEL like a character in a living breathing Star Wars universe. The more ways that are implemented the better.

 

[exar333]

Got my pre-order code, so I am excited to give the game a 'go' when it releases.

I have been 'free and clear' of MMOs since around the time I left SW:G. Hopefully this is a good game!

 

[HumblePie]

Got my pre-order code, so I am excited to give the game a 'go' when it releases.

I have been 'free and clear' of MMOs since around the time I left SW:G. Hopefully this is a good game!

I did the first month of RIFTS when it came out and a couple of months of WoW cat when it first came out. Other than that, it was a few betas and dickering around with some F2P MMO's like Allods and such. I was really being goofy in Allods for awhile there by making the highest level character on the newbie island 🙂 Reached level 16 I think so it was sort of a silly time waster.

Anyhow, I'm just waiting for an actual MMORPG, emphasis on RPG, to come out and I've had my eye on this game since they said they would be focusing on that. That with voice overs for everything supposedly is what is making want to play it. Perhaps it will fall flat, but I'm willing to give it a go.

 

[Arsinek]

Again VERY short sighted. You are in WoW thought mode big time. Get out of it.

You keep thinking that players will "blow through" stories. Or they become a hindrance to game. This is where you are wrong as many single player games in the past HAVE done it correctly.

Yes, some people are out for reaching that cap or that supposed feeling of being "better" than everyone else. More power to them I suppose. I get that feeling from time to time as well when I play. Heck I remember spending weeks twinking out a character for WoW battle grounds Warsong Gulch when it was first released so that character COULD be the best there. And it was. But that is besides the point. Why? BECAUSE YOU CAN DO THIS IN EVERY EFFING MMO TO DATE!!!!


/breathes...

Pick any MMO out there and you can be the guy that tries to "be the best" of the game. They all have that and that is not a draw to a game despite what you are claiming.

PvP in an MMO is usually always hampered by junk mechanics. You either have high levels slaughtering people that are lesser than them or gank fests. Many MMOs have implemented arena style PvP "games" to get by these mechanics that really only griefers and hardcore players (the minority of players) enjoy anyhow. Still, the nature of a character that "grows" in power in a PvP setting where different characters have different "powers" makes the PvP aspect inherently imbalanced.



The point I'm making is that a DYNAMIC story driven game is completely possible. It's not something that can be done quickly, but it can be done. Meaning you don't do the "same cutscene over again" ever. Your decisions affects your character and the story in ways that have ramifications you can't duplicate easily. A well made story game will give you enough options that it will seem like an infinite amount. Or more than you can do in a few weeks of play time as you've been led to expect from playing too much WoW. Nor would they be Kill X, or Collect Y, or Escort Z missions. Sure those will be there, but there is more that can be done than that. Sure ultimately there is a limited number of actions you can make in a video game and that will never change, but there is a way to make those actions feel like more than they are. Make a quest where you have to play a diplomat to stop or start a war between factions for example. That's just one idea off the top of my head. There are soo many ways through a story plot devices to draw a player in and make their character FEEL like a character in a living breathing Star Wars universe. The more ways that are implemented the better.

Well, SWTOR does contain a lot of kill X and collect Y. Really the quests are just like WoW except your quest giver talks and while talking you can get light or darkside points (sometimes) and you can get favor points from your companion. I dont think your responces really have that much of an impact on the enviroment from what Ive seen.

Dont get your hopes too high for this game, it leads to a better chance of being let down.

 

[Mandres]

Again VERY short sighted. You are in WoW thought mode big time. Get out of it.

It's not WoW thought mode, it's "MMORPG" thought mode. Progression and competition are the addictive elements of the genre. Sure, a multiplayer KOTOR sounds like fun ... for a month. Once you've finished all the available story and played a few alts then what? It is not possible to craft new stories faster than people complete them. Every single 'episodic' game experiment that has been tried has failed. To keep players engaged (and subscribed) there has to be either new PvE carrots to chase or a competitive PvP metagame. And for a game so close to release there is shockingly little information available about either one.

I can't shake the sinking suspicion that Bioware spent $150M developing an awesome character story with "hundreds of hours of voice dialogue(tm)"!!!! instead of a hardcore Star Wars MMORPG. That's a gamble that I don't think is going to pay off for them.

 

[CVSiN]

Well, SWTOR does contain a lot of kill X and collect Y. Really the quests are just like WoW except your quest giver talks and while talking you can get light or darkside points (sometimes) and you can get favor points from your companion. I dont think your responces really have that much of an impact on the enviroment from what Ive seen.

Dont get your hopes too high for this game, it leads to a better chance of being let down.

I go into every game with a fresh slate..
I'm tired of every MMO being benchmarked against WoW.

I tried Rift and it was decent and had some new stuff ( stolen from pretty much every other MMO to date)
Ive played just about every other MMO there has been since UO.

pretty much all have disappointed in 1 way or the other..
SWG I loved I played until NGE.
I never gave a flying flip about Jedi so I just played how I wanted to.

TeraKasi Master and Combat Medic combo FTW 😉 loved pitching nasty dots and then pulling a kung fu beatdown on anyone that got even remotely close 😉

I adore both KOTOR 1 and 2.. as well as ME1 and 2..

But again they are way too short.. just s you are getting into it it's over..
and after playing MMOs the artificial worlds seem completely dead.

need a balance of the 2.. and I think this might be the key.

 

[CVSiN]

It's not WoW thought mode, it's "MMORPG" thought mode. Progression, and competition are the addictive elements of the genre. Sure, a multiplayer KOTOR sounds like fun ... for a month. Once you've finished all the available story and played a few alts then what? It is not possible to craft new stories faster than people complete them. Every single 'episodic' game experiment that has been tried has failed. To keep players engaged (and subscribed) there has to be either new PvE carrots to chase or a competitive PvP metagame. And for a game so close to release there is shockingly little information available about either one.

I can't shake the sinking suspicion that Bioware spent $150M developing an awesome character story with "hundreds of hours of voice dialogue(tm)"!!!! instead of a hardcore Star Wars MMORPG. That's a gamble that I don't think is going to pay off for them.

No it is NOT.. that is NOT how the average gamer thinks of MMOs.. thats how the WOW kiddies think of when they think of MMORPG.

You do NOT speak for even close to the majority of MMO gamers out there.

And FYI there is PVP and battlegrounds already announced.

You literally have no idea what the game brings.. and you sound like nothing more than yet another WoWIwanturPurplez kiddie.
most of us older crowd that came from REAL RPGs care less about being the best or being first or who has the most purplez crap.

MMOs have NOTHING to do with competition.. nothing at all.. thats what a very few very sad individuals think it's about... most of us go in and play a few BGs for kicks.. run some dailies talk to our friends laugh and have a beer or 6 and just have fun..

While the l33t morons compare gearscores and tell the average people they aren't elite enough to PVP or raid with them..
to hell with that mentality.

 

[smackababy]

I go into every game with a fresh slate..
I'm tired of every MMO being benchmarked against WoW.

Well, you had better get used to it. Until something better comes along, every MMO will be either better, equal, or worse than WoW on every part.

And as far as what the average MMO player does, unless anyone has any data to backup something with some usage statistics, you have no idea.

 

[HumblePie]

It's not WoW thought mode, it's "MMORPG" thought mode. Progression, and competition are the addictive elements of the genre. Sure, a multiplayer KOTOR sounds like fun ... for a month. Once you've finished all the available story and played a few alts then what? It is not possible to craft new stories faster than people complete them. To keep players engaged (and subscribed) there has to be either new PvE carrots to chase or a competitive PvP metagame. And for a game so close to release there is shockingly little information available about either one.

I can't shake the sinking suspicion that Bioware spent $150M developing an awesome character story with "hundreds of hours of voice dialogue(tm)"!!!! instead of a hardcore Star Wars MMORPG. That's a gamble that I don't think is going to pay off for them.

Sigh, no you are in Wow thought mode. You keep thinking in terms of "blowing though all the available story in a month" for example. Again you are short sighted. A MMORPG story driven game should not have a "month" of story to blow through but YEARS. Even better, an ever changing story and dynamics based on player interactions. Start a war between factions? Open up a set of story driven quests for that for you to continue the war. Also open up story driven quests for other players to stop the war. I'm just giving that out as an example. I'm talking about literally ever changing events. Rifts TRIED to do this with rifts. They fell short. I'm talking about Planet X in star wars starting a war with Planet Y. You help participate in one side or the other. One side wins and that planet is converted over completely. You participate through either fighting or diplomatic actions. Even smuggling and bounty hunting to continue or end the war. I'm not talking stupid NPC scuffles either. I'm talking about bomb dropping, planet breaking wars.

There is just so much one can eventually do to make a game really immersive. One doesn't need the carrot of "I need that next level" crap you keep spouting to make an enjoyable game that brings people back and lasts. Again you are insane if you think that is the only viable way to create a game. It is not.

Also an open ended universe like Star wars doesn't need one major plot line either with a few minor arcs and have it be done. Nor am I calling collect X item quests story lines. They are not.

And boss farming shouldn't be in any MMORPG period. You fight a boss because you've reached that point of the story, not because you teleported to the end of a dungeon and ran up to it.



Nor do I think players should have "levels" either. Your character grows based on actions you take. I'm not talking about the crappy ass SWG way of doing it where you had players sitting in empty buildings scripted to kill one another while some doc based one revived them to reach max skill levels. I'm talking you complete story missions and arcs and your character gets points. Do combat missions and get combat related skills points. Do diplomatic or merchantile missions and the same. Get rid of levels entirely. Make new skills available based off story missions themselves. Bleh, the idea's I have for a truly immersive game that isn't a grindfest make me almost want to create my own MMORPG. Unfortunately, I am a software developer and I know there is no way in hell I could do something like I want on my own, nor do I have the financial assets to make it happen. Still I can imagine and dream of what I would love to see implemented in a game one day. And yes, everthing I have mentioned thus far is doable through coding. And no, it would not be quick and easy to implement.

 

[CVSiN]

I go into every game with a fresh slate..
I'm tired of every MMO being benchmarked against WoW.[\QUOTE]

Well, you had better get used to it. Until something better comes along, every MMO will be either better, equal, or worse than WoW on every part.

And as far as what the average MMO player does, unless anyone has any data to backup something with some usage statistics, you have no idea.

actually it's pretty easy to get those statistics..
just go to http://www.wowprogress.com/ and see the very few that are knocking down the content..

or browse the armory and look at achievements.

80% of players never reach the so called "end game" of chasing endless purples.
"casuals" make up far more than the so called Elites and thats no made up stat..
go browse the WoW forums some time. there are far more people that care about alot more than just the end content..

there are far more people still going though content that the elites have long since passed up and now look down on as trivial.

or why don't you just walk around the towns in wow... looking and listening to the average people.. you will see a far different story than what you think.

I honestly and TRULY hope the WoW kiddies and the so called Elite stay with that turd and keep chasing the endless purples..
I for one am hoping the adults and the "casuals" and the true RPG lovers move on to something else.

 

[Mandres]

No it is NOT.. that is NOT how the average gamer thinks of MMOs.. thats how the WOW kiddies think of when they think of MMORPG.

That's a ridiculous statement. What other MMO are these average gamers playing then? Which MMO is, at its heart, not about earning better gear to kill bigger monsters or other players? EVE? LOTRO? Everquest?

WoW is based on the same formula as every single other successful MMORPG ever made. It's the formula that defines the genre. Progression + competition = addiction = monthly subsciption.

You do NOT speak for even close to the majority of MMO gamers out there.

Don't I? What game are the majority of MMO gamers playing then?

And FYI there is PVP and battlegrounds already announced.

Announced, but not detailed, tested or widely discussed. The only relevant info about the PvP from the people playing the game is that it's laggy and broken.

MMOs have NOTHING to do with competition.. nothing at all..

I think you're just trolling now. MMORPG's are about acquiring power in a virtual world. And that power is measured, in every single case, against other players. I'm glad you can have enjoy having a few beers and chatting with your friends while fishing in WoW, but inebriated fishing is not the gaming experience that drives 4,000,000 players to pay their $15 every month.

Stop calling me a WoW kiddie. You have a very unrealistic view of MMORPGs in the market today.

 

[Carmen813]

It's not WoW thought mode, it's "MMORPG" thought mode. Progression and competition are the addictive elements of the genre. Sure, a multiplayer KOTOR sounds like fun ... for a month. Once you've finished all the available story and played a few alts then what? It is not possible to craft new stories faster than people complete them. Every single 'episodic' game experiment that has been tried has failed. To keep players engaged (and subscribed) there has to be either new PvE carrots to chase or a competitive PvP metagame. And for a game so close to release there is shockingly little information available about either one.

I can't shake the sinking suspicion that Bioware spent $150M developing an awesome character story with "hundreds of hours of voice dialogue(tm)"!!!! instead of a hardcore Star Wars MMORPG. That's a gamble that I don't think is going to pay off for them.

I like story...thats what keeps me interested. And given that this game has thousands of possible decisions, I think it will keep me interested for quite some time.

 

[Arsinek]

I go into every game with a fresh slate..
I'm tired of every MMO being benchmarked against WoW.

I tried Rift and it was decent and had some new stuff ( stolen from pretty much every other MMO to date)
Ive played just about every other MMO there has been since UO.

pretty much all have disappointed in 1 way or the other..
SWG I loved I played until NGE.
I never gave a flying flip about Jedi so I just played how I wanted to.

TeraKasi Master and Combat Medic combo FTW 😉 loved pitching nasty dots and then pulling a kung fu beatdown on anyone that got even remotely close 😉

I adore both KOTOR 1 and 2.. as well as ME1 and 2..

But again they are way too short.. just s you are getting into it it's over..
and after playing MMOs the artificial worlds seem completely dead.

need a balance of the 2.. and I think this might be the key.

Not to be all gloom and doom I did really enjoy the first flashpoint (4 man instanced dungeon) you come across as Empire. I dont think it really had anything ground breaking but the voiced npc interaction in it seemed more interesting then the usual "Hey I need you to go kill 5 Jawas". The voiced stuff in instances I do think is neat. I always liked when Rag talked in Molten Core. I think one of the main things I liked about this instance was the enviroment, it wasnt a cave, it was an Imperial ship. I think most people will agree Imperial stuff in Star Wars looks cool. I also liked that this instance wasnt incredably long, it was just long enough imo. Also where you enter the instance is cool, another Imperial space ship looking thing.

 

[CVSiN]

That's a ridiculous statement. What other MMO are these average gamers playing then? Which MMO is, at its heart, not about earning better gear to kill bigger monsters or other players? EVE? LOTRO? Everquest?

WoW is based on the same formula as every single other successful MMORPG ever made. It's the formula that defines the genre. Progression + competition = addiction = monthly subsciption.



Don't I? What game are the majority of MMO gamers playing then?



Announced, but not detailed, tested or widely discussed. The only relevant info about the PvP from the people playing the game is that it's laggy and broken.



I think you're just trolling now. MMORPG's are about acquiring power in a virtual world. And that power is measured, in every single case, against other players. I'm glad you can have enjoy having a few beers and chatting with your friends while fishing in WoW, but inebriated fishing is not the gaming experience that drives 4,000,000 players to pay their $15 every month.

Stop calling me a WoW kiddie, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

hahahahahahahahaha with your whopping 4 posts..
You are the epitome of "wow kiddie" you are the Stereotypical "WoW kiddie"

I never said people were not playing WoW... I have been playing in constantly since 2004.. only recently with the advent of CRAPACLISM that I finally have had enough of their shit and cancelled my 2 accounts and my GFs 2..
and I am not an elite nor was I driven by "loot"

you number 1 need to learn some reading comprehension.

and #2 take the fucking blinders off your eyes..

MMOs are NOT and never have been about gaining power over others..
it is about a community of playing the same game and the camaraderie that comes with that.
it is a social event.. and not about winning or losing.. or being told you don't have the gear score to play...
it is about friends and family playing the same game TOGETHER.
doing a dungeon as a group of friends and not giving 1 shit about what drops or how many times the group wipes.. it is about laughing and fun.

The problem with people like you and the other elite WoW Kiddies
is that somewhere alone the way you all forgot that.
You only care about having the BEST players.. weather you like them or not..
You wouldn't take your own brother into a raid unless he knew all the fights and had a 1000000000 gear score like the rest of you morons..

The same goes for PVP and Arena teams..
only the so called elite are wanted.. if you don't have XXX resilience don't bother sending tells..

That is NOT how games are supposed to be played..
just go through the average guilds...
You know that it took 10 months for our guild of 200 people to finally get through kara?

Pull some reports on random players in the amrory and look at dungeon achivements..
you will see tons and tons have never even set foot in half the raids.. including ICC from LK.
let alone half the stuff in Cata.. there are still people struggling to get through the heroics..

You and your little gearscore elites are the 10% that Blizz and other game companies actually hate..
You drive the game faster than it needs to progress.

The only person trolling in the TOR thread are you WoW fanatics. if you want to talk about how great WoW is was or how elite you are go post in the WoW thread instead.

again I LOL at you trolling in here with 4 posts..

 

[Mandres]

I like story...thats what keeps me interested. And given that this game has thousands of possible decisions, I think it will keep me interested for quite some time.

I like story too, especially Star Wars story, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done with it.

From a business standpoint I still think it was the wrong direction to take a Star Wars MMORPG. Here's hoping that I'm wrong!

 

[Mandres]

text

It doesn't seem like you're capable of having a rational conversation about MMO theory or decision without projecting your own issues with WoW and its playerbase onto me in a hostile way. I won't be responding to you any more.

 

[CVSiN]

It doesn't seem like you're capable of having a rational conversation about MMO theory or decision without projecting your own issues with WoW and its playerbase onto me in a hostile way. I won't be responding to you any more.

Well thank god for that!

Your rational narrow minded thought is not exactly there either..

The amount of blindness the average "elite" WoW player has to the rest of the game is hilarious.

 

[Carmen813]

I like story too, especially Star Wars story, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they've done with it.

From a business standpoint I still think it was the wrong direction to take a Star Wars MMORPG. Here's hoping that I'm wrong!

The video in the OP actually made me more excited story wise. Seems like each member of the group can somehow impact the dialogue with whoever is sending them on a group quest. That's unique in an MMO from what I know.

I'm actually kind of digging the idea of an MMO where I can accomplish great things solo. Hell, if this is KOTOR style gameplay/story and content comes regularly I'll easily pay $15 a month.

 

[CVSiN]

The video in the OP actually made me more excited story wise. Seems like each member of the group can somehow impact the dialogue with whoever is sending them on a group quest. That's unique in an MMO from what I know.

I'm actually kind of digging the idea of an MMO where I can accomplish great things solo. Hell, if this is KOTOR style gameplay/story and content comes regularly I'll easily pay $15 a month.

exactly! I showed those same vids to my GF who has been playing Rift these days as she had ZERO interest when I told her a Star Wars MMO was coming..
by the time she watched all the vids she is 100% sold as well.

both of us preordered CEs for TOR first night they were up 😉

 

[HumblePie]

Mandres you are incorrect about all your assumptions.

1) WoW is based on the same formula as every single other successful MMORPG ever made. It's the formula that defines the genre. Progression + competition = addiction = monthly subsciption.


This is so blantantly false I can almost don't want to answer it. First off, something I spoke of before, there were these MMO's around long before WoW or even Everquest came into existance. Hell before UO. Know what they were called? MUDs. Some didn't have more than a few hundred players on at any given time, but others did. Gemstone 3 and Avalon were two MAJOR muds that had THOUSANDS of players on at any given time. I used to lay them despite AOL's hourly charge at the time. Yes there was leveling and kill, but that was RARELY the point of playing the game. I'm serious. The GM events and fairs and such were the main attraction to those games. The FUCKING STORY was the reason thousands of people in the 90's were willing to shell out $3 an hour to play these games. Want to know something? These games are still around and still have a paying subscriber base in the thousands. Actually gemstone 3 became gemstone 4 since I last played, but it's basically the same.

http://www.play.net/gs4/

Here is an online game that has been around for DECADES. Name one game that tops it in age for an MMO. You can't. People would literally sit around for hours in the town square doing this thing called ROLE PLAYING. I'm serious. People would pay $3 an hour to sit around giving out "thee's and thou's" constantly. The funny thing was, they were NOT the minority. Not by a long shot.

Yes the game had it's carrot addiction stuff to do as well as you so blatantly put it. But it was much more than that. Part of the reason was because you HAD to read the screen to play. So you HAD to interact with the story because you couldn't play at all otherwise.

2) Don't I? What game are the majority of MMO gamers playing then?

Sheep don't mean shit when there is only one aspect of game play that is available. I don't play any graphical based MMO right now because they are all the same as you already pointed out. Many of my friends aren't playing them anymore either. To MOST people, an MMO is a glorified chat room for social interaction with people they can't usually hang out with at the moment in real life while giving those same people something they can do together. For the majority of MMO gamers this is the case. At least the older generation of gamers. For the kiddies that are teens and early 20's you are right. That is not what they focus on when they play a game like WoW. They are in a competition mode to do better than their "peers" because that is what that stage in life is about. As a teen you are in competition for school and sports. In your early 20s is college and climbing up from the bottom rung of work. It's all about competition and distinguishing yourself which is why it carries over into other aspects of their life including gaming. I know because I was in that phase at one point in my life as well. Most people out grow that phase, but some don't and we adults know them as the "one uppers" that are sad individuals late in life.



3) The WoW formula isn't the only one that will work. The only reason WoW did so well is because they took what other games before them did and did the same thing with more polish and better. They also didn't do some of the more obvious retarded things that UO and Everquest did such as forced open world PVP for everyone (UO) or massive timesinks (Everquest). Just because one game found a winning formula doesn't mean it is the only one.

Oh and for kicks I know plenty of online games with large player bases doing well that are NOT about competition. They are successful and have been around at least as long as WoW and they aren't just MUDs either. Second Life, Tale in the Desert, and Furcadia come to mind. Minecraft is HUGELY popular right now and as an MMO goes has none of the crap that you are spouting as the only winning formula.

So take off your blinders and stop being the epitome of a "WoW kiddie" because that is what you are being as CVSIN pointed out.

 

[BoberFett]

This thread is going to be hilarious in a year. One side or the other will look like complete assholes.

But I predict that it won't be the people who think TOR will be a flop. 😉

 

[badb0y]

Mandres is 100% correct. The only thing different this time is Bioware is taking a crack at the MMO scene.

I am not making any sweeping statements here because it can go either way but anyone who thinks Bioware didn't look at Blizzard for a business model is fooling themselves. That's why WoW is being brought up in this thread, who do you think this game is going to compete with?