** Official Star Craft 2 Multiplayer Thread **

[coreyb]

played few 1v1 customs games last couple of days after about 2 month pause. I still believe MMM is way OP at least vs toss.

1. toss needs to go for an observer to actually see what terran is doing
2. if yes you need Colossi (long tech path, expensive) or templars (long tech path, cost tons of gas + good micro needed for usage)
3. You can't expand before this (no ramp blocking with force field)

So even if you fend it of your way back in terms of economy.
plus MMM = no micro needed you can basically a-move. It's just so simple, that's why most terrans do it.

mmm is not OP

1. toss can early scout and see what the terran is going for, so that point is moot. plus then can push in a little and test defenses, see what units and buildings terran has. then later the observer is useful.

2. you should of expanded before terran has mmm. its not easy to have a good force of marines and marauders plus tech to medivacs early.

mmm = lots of micro. you have to make sure you dont move your medivacs with your units so they heal more, and you have to shoot n scoot as well.

 

[namtran512]

Wah, I suck hard with really small numbers of units, which is why I haven't tried too hard with the 2rax expand builds you posted. But I've been focused on this 3rax thing since I started platying SC2... maybe it's time to change.

I like play more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft#p/u/3/86r-mshrDWk
(DeMusliM vs LiquidTyler) though I've never considered getting the factory/starport earlier & the 3rd rax later. Though getting that raven out early would help against the large #s of DTs I've seen lately. I hate DTs D:

What's gimmicky about the 3rax I was suggesting? I don't feel like mine is all-in; I don't try to win early (unless they like, don't have any units). My attack objective is to neutralize their army so I can expand & tech safely.

Is the issue that I'm trying to be too "general"? By that I mean I get my expansion later than the fast expand build you cited, but earlier than more 1base style play. So maybe I'm screwing myself by being in the middle--I could expand earlier or delay the attack & have a much bigger force.

3 Rax puts you too far behind tech wise so if you don't do something effective with that huge infantry army you are screwed the second Colossai come out.

 

[coreyb]

exactly. namtran knows what hes talking about.

 

[PUN]

I am starting to really hate playing 4v4 now. Bnet is paring me up with bronze and silver who has absolutely no clue of what they are doing. They should pair up players within the same tier or +/-1 within. lost 3 games in a row since two of my mates had 9 scv/probes 15mins into the game.

 

[dust]

I am starting to really hate playing 4v4 now. Bnet is paring me up with bronze and silver who has absolutely no clue of what they are doing. They should pair up players within the same tier or +/-1 within. lost 3 games in a row since two of my mates had 9 scv/probes 15mins into the game.

:O

9 SCV's? Supersavers!

That's like the initial ones, one for each natural, one for building and one for scouting/harassing/assault.

 

[beginner99]

mmm is not OP

1. toss can early scout and see what the terran is going for, so that point is moot. plus then can push in a little and test defenses, see what units and buildings terran has. then later the observer is useful.

2. you should of expanded before terran has mmm. its not easy to have a good force of marines and marauders plus tech to medivacs early.

mmm = lots of micro. you have to make sure you dont move your medivacs with your units so they heal more, and you have to shoot n scoot as well.

Ok Ialso mean MM (without medivac) meaning before you can have expanded.

But a lot of terrans just go all-in. one base MM(M) and if I as toss expand then and don't go 1 base colossi I'm dead. Expansion is harder to defend plus th minerals used for it.

Or I would claim that it's easier to get to gold or platinum league doing only MM(M) than as toss going only Stalker/zealot (and few immortals).

 

[imaheadcase]

I am starting to really hate playing 4v4 now. Bnet is paring me up with bronze and silver who has absolutely no clue of what they are doing. They should pair up players within the same tier or +/-1 within. lost 3 games in a row since two of my mates had 9 scv/probes 15mins into the game.

4vs4 you get paired with whoever is in the wait. It does not care what rank you are, if a spot opens, you are in.

 

[Aikouka]

3 Rax puts you too far behind tech wise so if you don't do something effective with that huge infantry army you are screwed the second Colossai with Extended Thermal Lances come out.

Fixed . Colossi without ETL are practically cannon fodder to a decent MM army since they can't really out-range them, and they become easy targets.

 

[namtran512]

Fixed . Colossi without ETL are practically cannon fodder to a decent MM army since they can't really out-range them, and they become easy targets.

Against Maurader heavy comps yeah but why would you put a Colossai out when you could have put 2 Immortals out and stomped him? That's about good decision making.


3 Rax army though is pretty marine heavy, which means easy win for you if you get the first Colossai out and camp your ramp.

 

[Aikouka]

3 Rax army though is pretty marine heavy, which means easy win for you if you get the first Colossai out and camp your ramp.

I don't see how a 3 Rax army is necessarily Marine-heavy... sure, Marauders are more expensive (in both "currencies"), but they're not out of reach if you limit your tech for the use of heavy barracks play.

 

[eLiu]

Against Maurader heavy comps yeah but why would you put a Colossai out when you could have put 2 Immortals out and stomped him? That's about good decision making.


3 Rax army though is pretty marine heavy, which means easy win for you if you get the first Colossai out and camp your ramp.

Huh... by the time I make my first push (6-7min), if they have a colossus out already, that means the rest of their army isn't worth mentioning. I'll just camp their expansion while I expand safely. Or if they aren't ready with forcefields, I can go in.

Maybe I don't play against sufficiently good protoss players? :/ I'm generally pleased to see early colossi. I get more worried w/high templar or dark templar. The former b/c I suck at micro'ing against them. The latter b/c I don't have detection in time if you b-line for them.

That's the trouble for me, trying to decide what openings & strats work well. If I'm winning against not-awesome opponents, it's not always/rarely related to me being good, but instead them being bad.

 

[HomerX]

a lot of P have trouble with early MM(M) attacks because the positioning and micro of your units is essential in this fight!

depending on your Build Order and the composition of the MM Ball you have two options: zelot + stalker in the beginning, add a few sentries after you have ~6 units
it is necessary that the zealots are in front of your stalkers! if you mix your zealots and stalkers in one group there is a big chance that the faster stalkers will engage the bioball first and block the zealots behind them... The Zealots are there to tank shoots from the marauders which allows your stalkers to kill the enemy units while they try to kite your zealots...
when you have sentries use forcefields behind the enemy so that they can not run away from your zealots which will do a lot of dmg against MM

the other option is to skip zealots and go sentry/stalker heavy... with this mix you have to split the bioball in half with forcefields... all your units will be able to shoot but the Terran units behind the forcefield can do nothing...

If you block your own zealots with your stalkers or when you forget to use forcefields its an easy a-move win for the Terran...

 

[Pia]

That's the trouble for me, trying to decide what openings & strats work well. If I'm winning against not-awesome opponents, it's not always/rarely related to me being good, but instead them being bad.

That's a non-problem if you can keep winning, since you'll get matched against awesome opponents eventually and that will allow you to see your weaknesses without any guesswork.

 

[Majes]

Homer, I agree with most of what you said... However, you cant really go stalker/sentry as toss because of the gas requirements. If you have a good mix and can use your sentries well you should be able to at least match the MM attack. If you dont play it perfectly MM will rape you... Stim pack is terrifying even as a diamond player..

 

[PUN]

Homer, I agree with most of what you said... However, you cant really go stalker/sentry as toss because of the gas requirements. If you have a good mix and can use your sentries well you should be able to at least match the MM attack. If you dont play it perfectly MM will rape you... Stim pack is terrifying even as a diamond player..

Gas requirement is not too bad with Stalker/sentry (you only need about 5 sentries)
6 toss on gas gives plenty enough to support 4 gates (accumulation of gas with early mining with less gates).

Ok, another tard noob on 4v4 lastnight.

Noob: "Let's rush the hell out"
Me & Others: "Ok"
4 mins passed....

Me: "let's go" 2 gates, 8 Zealots
Noob: "ok I am ready" 4 marines.... with both gas up and expansion being established.

WTF with these noobs? I would not have pumped 8 Z, sacrificing some of my mineral lines, and falling short on tech.

 

[evident]

sort of off topic , but aiur chef and starjeweled are a blast. there are tons of people who are really good at bejeweled out there though. bunch of no life a**holoes!!!

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Gas requirement is not too bad with Stalker/sentry (you only need about 5 sentries)
6 toss on gas gives plenty enough to support 4 gates (accumulation of gas with early mining with less gates).

Ok, another tard noob on 4v4 lastnight.

Noob: "Let's rush the hell out"
Me & Others: "Ok"
4 mins passed....

Me: "let's go" 2 gates, 8 Zealots
Noob: "ok I am ready" 4 marines.... with both gas up and expansion being established.

WTF with these noobs? I would not have pumped 8 Z, sacrificing some of my mineral lines, and falling short on tech.

why do you keep playing pub games then?

 

[evident]

why do you keep playing pub games then?

imo, 4v4 is the best way to master your macro skills

 

[coreyb]

imo, 4v4 is the best way to master your macro skills

or against a very easy computer...you don't have to worry about getting attacked that way.

 

[HomerX]

I have been laddering the last few days for the first time as Protoss.

I stopped laddering as Plat Zerg about 3-4 months ago, when the system started to place me against diamond players.

so out of the 4 games i played now as protoss 3 were diamond players (~2,5k) and it was ridiculous how effective a properly executed 4gate was despite that is really an "old" strategy...

I 4gated 2 protoss and one zerg and had a longer macro game against a terran... It wasn`t even close...

so when do people learn to defend against a 4gate? high diamond? master?

 

[Barfo]

sort of off topic , but aiur chef and starjeweled are a blast. there are tons of people who are really good at bejeweled out there though. bunch of no life a**holoes!!!

I'm so bad at starjeweled I can't even beat medium AI

 

[Udgnim]

GSL 4 finals is live

http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors1/live/

 

[beginner99]

I have been laddering the last few days for the first time as Protoss.

I stopped laddering as Plat Zerg about 3-4 months ago, when the system started to place me against diamond players.

so out of the 4 games i played now as protoss 3 were diamond players (~2,5k) and it was ridiculous how effective a properly executed 4gate was despite that is really an "old" strategy...

I 4gated 2 protoss and one zerg and had a longer macro game against a terran... It wasn`t even close...

so when do people learn to defend against a 4gate? high diamond? master?

even zealot rush is pretty effective in pvp depending on Map and if the opponent blocks his ramp.

 

[imaheadcase]

You can pretty much sum any game 2vs2 or higher as "who can get the most voidrays and carriers first" games. I hardly see people use ground units anymore. lol

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

imo, 4v4 is the best way to master your macro skills

you can play 4v4 with friends and not random pub games.