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** Official Star Craft 2 Multiplayer Thread **

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coreyb

Platinum Member
Aug 12, 2007
2,437
0
0
BINGO! This is what I think is *really* funny about the people who play this game all the time. They act as though it's really, really difficult when it's not. Any little kid can 4 gate and any little kid can 3-4 rax proxy rush to pump out marines and marauders with stim and concussives. How is that skill?

I'd say that the only race that doesn't have the option to cheese is Zerg, and guess what: no one plays them. Why? Because they are the most underpowered race in the game and because they don't have any really good cheese tactics (6 pool is always lost since any Protoss or Terran playing a Zerg will wall-in).

So, acting like this game is developed for some "higher mind" and someone who wants an "easier" game shouldn't play it is absurd. I've played about 150 ladder games total and have a 60% win ratio when I get to actually play more than a 6 minute all-in game. In the past few weeks that I started casually playing again, I've had 3 regular games and probably 20 all-in rushes from Protoss or Terran opponents.

Like I said, if that's what this game has come to, then it's done...and it's time to play something that actually requires higher thought and talent to play.

Thanks for helping prove my point though, I appreciate it!
I'm not going to address any of your "points", but you just strike me as a rage filled gamer with excuses. I couldn't tell you how many times I've played people that talk shit after I beat them "terran is OP, too easy, you suck".

It's a balanced and skilled game, and huge for e-sports. period.
 

HomerX

Member
Mar 2, 2010
184
0
0
so your points is a pretty good indicator of the level of player you are (provided you've played enough games to get a good sample size).
it's not a perfect system, but it works pretty well.

> 2500 is the mark of a very good player.
That is not accurate....

Because of the bonus pool ~2500 points is standard atm if you have around 50% win ratio and you played enough games to use all your bonus pool...

a 1500 Points diamond with a remaining bonus pool of 1500 points is better than a 2500 diamond with an empty bonus pool...

If you are an average player of your league with around 50% win ratio you will loose as many points as you win BUT you will always get your bonus pool.. you loose 12 points but if you win you get 12 points + 12 points bonus pool...

and there is also a BIG differnce between a 2500 points gold player and a 2500 points master player.

So the simple number of points is useless without added information... which league, bonus pool etc...


BINGO! This is what I think is *really* funny about the people who play this game all the time. They act as though it's really, really difficult when it's not. Any little kid can 4 gate and any little kid can 3-4 rax proxy rush to pump out marines and marauders with stim and concussives. How is that skill?
sure it is not that hard to execute a 4gate... scouting it and knowing how to stop ist is the hard part...
in gold league most people are not that good at scouting and they are not that familiar with all the different strategies and their weak spots. So the aggressive player often has the advantage...

Once you are able to scout these early attacks and you know how to stop them you end up with a longer macro game where you are at an advantage!

in diamond league there is not less cheese compared to the gold league.. but people are more often able to defend hence they end up in longer macro games.

I'd say that the only race that doesn't have the option to cheese is Zerg, and guess what: no one plays them. Why? Because they are the most underpowered race in the game and because they don't have any really good cheese tactics (6 pool is always lost since any Protoss or Terran playing a Zerg will wall-in).
no they also have some good 1 base all-ins... e.g. 3 roach into mass ling against protoss...

In the past few weeks that I started casually playing again, I've had 3 regular games and probably 20 all-in rushes from Protoss or Terran opponents.

Like I said, if that's what this game has come to, then it's done...and it's time to play something that actually requires higher thought and talent to play.
If your enemy scouts you doing a greedy fe and tech build it often is the proper reaction to do an early attack in order to punish you before your economy/tech starts to kick in... learn to play safe builds and to scout your enemy... this will lead to longer macro games because no one shows a weak spot early on...

you can play aggressive builds in order to stop enemy aggression or to punish him for being greedy, you can play greedy and hope that your opponent will go for a defensive or greedy opening himself or you could play a safe/defensive opening until you scout what your opponent is doing...

so it really requires a lot of thought/talent and knowledge of the game...

what would you change in order to improve the game?
 

JJChicken

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2007
6,166
12
81
One good thing I heard on the GSL stream was that Korean aggression is a very good way to scout/play the game. By being aggressive, your opponent will have use all his units to defend and you should be able to see his tech path. If he doesn't have enough units to defend (e.g. greedy tech/expo), then you should straight up kill him.
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
Anyone else like watching replays + commentary vs actually playing the game sometimes? :D

I been watching Huskystarcraft and HDstarcraft games on youtube for a long time, some of those games are so intense and fun to watch.

Watching pros play with insane macro/micro is impressive no matter who you are. lol

I've always been impressed with a zerg player that can use overlords to drop around map..its pretty hard to load up and unload in battle like that..and keep macro up.
 
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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
BINGO! This is what I think is *really* funny about the people who play this game all the time. They act as though it's really, really difficult when it's not.
BINGO! This is what I think is *really* funny about the people who complain abotu this game all the time. They act as though it is really, really easy when it's not.

Hint: if the game is so easy, then why are you in a crappy league and why aren't you making possibly a million USD a year?

Any little kid can 4 gate and any little kid can 3-4 rax proxy rush to pump out marines and marauders with stim and concussives. How is that skill?
Is that so? Then why don't you do? Why don't the pros do it?

I'd say that the only race that doesn't have the option to cheese is Zerg
sixpool

and guess what: no one plays them. Why? Because they are the most underpowered race in the game and because they don't have any really good cheese tactics (6 pool is always lost since any Protoss or Terran playing a Zerg will wall-in).
1. No they don't always wall in
2. 50% of GSL winners are zerg

So, acting like this game is developed for some "higher mind" and someone who wants an "easier" game shouldn't play it is absurd. I've played about 150 ladder games total and have a 60% win ratio when I get to actually play more than a 6 minute all-in game. In the past few weeks that I started casually playing again, I've had 3 regular games and probably 20 all-in rushes from Protoss or Terran opponents.
If everyone all ins so predictably, why isn't your win rate 100%? Just prepare for it. By the way, winning 60% of the time to silver scrubs why losing 40% of the time to platinum beginners isn't a great thing to brag about

Like I said, if that's what this game has come to, then it's done...and it's time to play something that actually requires higher thought and talent to play.
Nice cop out ;P

Typical whiner - no original ideas here
 

Kabob

Lifer
Sep 5, 2004
15,248
0
76
Anyone else like watching replays + commentary vs actually playing the game sometimes? :D

I been watching Huskystarcraft and HDstarcraft games on youtube for a long time, some of those games are so intense and fun to watch.

Watching pros play with insane macro/micro is impressive no matter who you are. lol

I've always been impressed with a zerg player that can use overlords to drop around map..its pretty hard to load up and unload in battle like that..and keep macro up.
I've been watching Husky for months. I'm actually about to start playing SC2 (although my game is stuck in a blizzard in St. Louis and my video card is stuck in a blizzard in NYC) so I figure I'll learn as much as I can before it arrives.
 

NYHoustonman

Platinum Member
Dec 8, 2002
2,642
0
0
Is that so? Then why don't you do? Why don't the pros do it?
I won't go as far as to say that Terran is OP, but they are undeniably (at least from what I've seen) the easiest race to ride to high Platinum/low Diamond. Pros don't do the MM(M) push because it won't get them anywhere against better players, but against the rest of us, MM takes more effort and skill to stop/counter than it takes to execute, and the Terran will end up with reasonable success using this same strategy every game. Granted, the same can probably be said about a timed warp gate push.

I play as Random, but when I'm Terran I generally avoid going straight MM just because it's so boring to me XD.
 

eLiu

Diamond Member
Jun 4, 2001
6,407
1
0
I won't go as far as to say that Terran is OP, but they are undeniably (at least from what I've seen) the easiest race to ride to high Platinum/low Diamond. Pros don't do the MM(M) push because it won't get them anywhere against better players, but against the rest of us, MM takes more effort and skill to stop/counter than it takes to execute, and the Terran will end up with reasonable success using this same strategy every game. Granted, the same can probably be said about a timed warp gate push.

I play as Random, but when I'm Terran I generally avoid going straight MM just because it's so boring to me XD.
Watch DeMuSliM (sp) play. He makes pretty heavy use of MMM. MMM gets you a lot more mobility than say, tanks+marines. Day 9 recently had a daily going over a series of terran games where he was interested in examining the MMM mobility vs raw power trade off; apparently he saw a pro-game using mainly MMM that really blew him away.

Pros definitely use MMM.
 

ModeEngage

Senior member
Jul 14, 2001
832
0
76
www.mode-engage.net
I actually think that Protoss has the strongest timing pushes currently, hence being the easiest to ride into Platinum/Diamond. Gateway/Robo pushes can be really hard to defend in lower levels of play.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
Watch DeMuSliM (sp) play. He makes pretty heavy use of MMM. MMM gets you a lot more mobility than say, tanks+marines. Day 9 recently had a daily going over a series of terran games where he was interested in examining the MMM mobility vs raw power trade off; apparently he saw a pro-game using mainly MMM that really blew him away.

Pros definitely use MMM.
daily #, or even better, a URL?

245?
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4674053/
 
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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
i don't doubt $100k from winnings, and other various sponsorships and freebies, but $1M is pushing it.
Well you can win almost $100k a month via tournaments (if you won them) and there are 12 months so....

Obviously you would have to be the best player around, but if Starcraft is so easy, then it should be no problem, right? ;)
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
Well you can win almost $100k a month via tournaments (if you won them) and there are 12 months so....

Obviously you would have to be the best player around, but if Starcraft is so easy, then it should be no problem, right? ;)
$100k a month doesn't seem possible.

i know most smaller tournaments are $500 to a few thousand at most.
what are larger tours? $10k?

are there 10 large tours a month? do they overlap? can you attend them all? can you win them all?
 

PUN

Golden Member
Dec 5, 1999
1,589
12
81
They don't, but its possible if you were good enough since $$ comes directly from winning
A friend of mine is one of the TOP pro in the world...he takes home about 400k (game winning, CF contracts/endorsements, fan meetings, merchandise sales) + other cash prizes.

I wouldn't be surprised if they indeed make $1mil a year.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,050
3
0
zerg players. if i use overseer contaminate on the opponent zerg's hatchery, does that stop the larvae from producing units or just the hatch from tech upgrades and making queens?
 
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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
I won't go as far as to say that Terran is OP, but they are undeniably (at least from what I've seen) the easiest race to ride to high Platinum/low Diamond. Pros don't do the MM(M) push because it won't get them anywhere against better players, but against the rest of us, MM takes more effort and skill to stop/counter than it takes to execute, and the Terran will end up with reasonable success using this same strategy every game. Granted, the same can probably be said about a timed warp gate push.

I play as Random, but when I'm Terran I generally avoid going straight MM just because it's so boring to me XD.
I disagree actually. Protoss is a lot simpler to play IMO. Requires less actions, less decision making, and is more streamlined than terran play. Terran's slight imbalance, if any, is only really present at high levels of play.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
$100k a month doesn't seem possible.

i know most smaller tournaments are $500 to a few thousand at most.
what are larger tours? $10k?

are there 10 large tours a month? do they overlap? can you attend them all? can you win them all?
GSL by itself was $89k for the first three seasons, and that is just one of many tourneys. Runner up got $20k. Each GSL season took a month basically, maybe 1.5 months. I think the prizes have been reduced but they are still substantial.

There are a bunch of other tourneys too, but GSL is doing a lot of marketing and is thereby the most famous.
 

coreyb

Platinum Member
Aug 12, 2007
2,437
0
0
lol @ terran being easy to ride to diamond. I think you meant to say protoss 4-gate.
 

JJChicken

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2007
6,166
12
81
Watch DeMuSliM (sp) play. He makes pretty heavy use of MMM. MMM gets you a lot more mobility than say, tanks+marines. Day 9 recently had a daily going over a series of terran games where he was interested in examining the MMM mobility vs raw power trade off; apparently he saw a pro-game using mainly MMM that really blew him away.

Pros definitely use MMM.
MarineKingPrime.We :D
 

imaheadcase

Diamond Member
May 9, 2005
3,850
7
76
Lots of prizes are split between top 3-5 players. So if you see $50k its a split between. At least in US, not sure korea or other places.
 

NYHoustonman

Platinum Member
Dec 8, 2002
2,642
0
0
lol @ terran being easy to ride to diamond. I think you meant to say protoss 4-gate.
I did mention that.

And they are. Pump out MM and attack-move. Hell, even add a little bit of micro by researching stim. Outside of Chargelots (which is a tough commitment to make early) and Sentry micro, there aren't any direct counters if done early enough. Sentry micro isn't difficult, but my point is the Protoss has to be ready for that whereas the Terran can just run in and fire.
 

ed21x

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2001
5,410
6
81
eh... i gotta admit that it is pretty easy to ride to diamond on terran. I've done a 3 rax (2 tech lab, 1 fusion core) marine, marauder, scv rush and won all 5 of my placement games with them. While this shows that cheesy strategies exist at the lowest level, it says nothing about the skill ceiling of starcraft 2. Once you get above silver, most people are well aware of how to counter a cheese build, and that is where the real skill comes in. There is no way you can 4-gate/6-pool/mnm rush your way beyond that. Blizzard games give you enough control to the point where skill differentiation, both in APM, mechanics, position, strategy, macro/micro and game sense makes a huge difference. Other games tend to get one or two of the above (a la macro for Supreme Commander/C&C, micro for wc3, positional play in Dawn of War, etc), but none requires all these features in such a balanced way as Starcraft 1/2.
 
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