Official....Review of Fahrenheit 9/11

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Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,666
21
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There was a interview with Moore on a television program. I can agree with some of which he said. Like how we should be grateful for the French instead of boycotting them. And of course, that this whole war is a salvage operation and was rushed and unplanned.

But one question he answered towards the end of the interview almost discredited him completely of my opinion of his views. He stated Bush Jr. was the most anti-solider president in the USA because Bush Jr. said troops showed a lack of Character in Cuba or that he pushed them into war for no reason.

He seems highly influenced in his own in-bitter emotions. I don't know if I can trust in his production as much like most of you will.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,924
7,031
136
It's interesting that documnetaries (BfC, Super Size me, F 9/11) are getting popular in US. While these are ofcourse biased and should be considered only as a 'starter' for a debate, I think it shows that something have been missing in the public media. Hopefully these movies can help starting a wider interest for what is actually going on in society. I think it's sad when people dismiss the discussion because they don't like the form it's presented in.

I haven't seen the movie, but based on the different reviews it seems like it would be entertaining and should start some thoughts, and basically I think that's the point of the movie.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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http://moorelies.com/news/specials/latimes_moore.cfm

THE BIG PICTURE
BY PATRICK GOLDSTEIN

Truth teller or story stretcher?
After spending two hours at lunch with Michael Moore the other day, the biggest shock for me was learning that when it comes to "Republican hacks" -- his phrase, not mine -- the man he seems to loathe the most isn't George Bush but Jay Leno. "He's banned me from his show for 10 years," contends Moore, who does a wickedly funny Leno impression. "Then, after my Oscar speech, I thought he went out of his way to incite violence against me by showing 'Michael Moore's house' being blown up. It was a frightening time for me -- my house in Michigan was vandalized. And he'd have James Woods and other guests on and incite them to criticize me."

Tugging on his signature baseball cap, this one with a "Made in Canada" logo, Moore says Leno changed his tune, inviting him to appear after the filmmaker's incendiary "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary won the coveted Palme d'Or at the Cannes film festival. "Of course I said no." According to Moore, Leno isn't the only lofty TV icon to freeze him out. He says the last time he was on "The O'Reilly Factor" he cut Bill O'Reilly to ribbons and "Bill doesn't like that, so I got banned from the show." Of course, says Moore, "now that it will help his ratings, he wants me on."

The story isn't quite so simple, as I learned when I got O'Reilly on the phone. "Moore was never banned, and he's welcome to come on anytime," he said. "I guess that's part of his charm. He's going to say bad things about me to get publicity. I have to admit -- left-wing bomb throwers sure know how to do good marketing."

O'Reilly went to a screening of the film, though because of its late start, he had to leave early to honor a prior commitment. (His mini-review: "It's what I expected -- Bush and his crew are a satanic cult, and we live in a police state.") On his way out, he bumped into Moore and asked if he would be coming on the show. He says Moore responded, "Yes, I am." So far Moore's handlers are hedging, saying they haven't committed.

The Leno camp also offered an account at odds with Moore's. They said that far from being banned, Moore was invited to appear after Cannes and was asked to be on the show twice in recent years, most recently after "Bowling for Columbine" won the Oscar for best documentary and Moore gave an inflammatory acceptance speech. After hearing of Moore's charge about showing his house being blown up, Leno went back and watched the tape, which he said shows not a house but a shack in the desert being hit by a missile. Through his publicist, Leno said, "If the jokes bothered him, I wish Michael would have called. Or he could have come on the show. I was just telling jokes about what made headlines, and that included him."

Leno's producer, Debbie Vickers, added: "Michael may feel he has a feud with us, but I know of no feud we have with him."

For the record, I have no feud with Moore nor any beef with his politics. When it comes to having the opinion that the Bush camp misled the country about its invasion of Iraq and the way the war on terror has been used for naked political purposes, we're in complete sync. What worries me is that if the charges Moore makes about his showbiz adversaries are unverifiable, what are we supposed to think about the important contentions, such as the Bush administration's cozy ties with the Saudi government?

I'm not the only one to wonder if Moore is a truth teller or a serial exaggerator. The Internet is jammed with sites devoted to debunking his films and books. Michael Wilson has just finished a documentary, "Michael Moore Hates America," that interviews various detractors, one of whom tartly notes, "He's positively brilliant at creating the false impression without uttering a false word." ReganBooks has just released "Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man," which rakes the filmmaker over the coals a thousand ways. The book argues that Moore fits the definition of a narcissistic personality disorder, which authors David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke describe as a pathological combination of overwhelming egotism and self-loathing.

After that, being lampooned by Jay Leno doesn't seem so bad after all, does it?

Some attackers are simply trying to smear Moore. Among them is Move America Forward, which has organized a campaign to stop theater owners from booking the film -- which opens in New York on Wednesday and in Los Angeles and the rest of the country Friday -- making the preposterous charge that it's an Al Qaeda recruiting tool. But other critics can't be tarred as knee-jerk ideologues. "You don't have to be a right-winger to be offended by misinformation," says Paul Slansky, a New Yorker humor writer and author of "The George W. Bush Quiz Book," a collection of damning facts and observations about Bush. "He plays fast and loose with the facts, the perfect example being in 'Columbine' where he implies you can go into a bank and come out with a gun, as if it all happened then and there. The facts are always bent to support his agenda. Once you're caught in a lie, it calls all the other stuff into question."

Moore says he invited fact checkers from the New Yorker to "tear this film apart and find something wrong." Sound familiar? When it comes to bending facts to fit an agenda, Slansky could just as well be talking about the president. In fact, Moore and Bush friends and foes see them in a strangely similar light; their admirers hailing their straight-shooting integrity, their enemies decrying their deception and opportunism.

Moore also hired an independent fact-checking firm that he says was "totally impressed -- they said, 'Hey, the Saudis even gave more money to the Bush circle than you say they do.' " But can "Fahrenheit 9/11" stand up to rigorous scrutiny? Being skeptical, I gave Moore the opportunity to respond to some questions about issues he raises in the film, starting with a segment of the movie in which Moore makes a series of connections between the Bush family circle and the Saudi elite.

Question: You make a big deal out of the fact that Saudi nationals and the Bin Laden family were given special privileges to fly and leave the country in the days after 9/11. Many people, including the 9/11 Commission, have disputed that, as well as whether the Bin Laden relatives had any connection to Osama. What's your case?

Moore: "The issue is over the interpretation of the facts. Other people started to fly on Sept. 13, but not on private jets. Everywhere you look there was favoritism to the Saudis. As for the Bin Ladens, can you imagine the FBI saying to Lee Harvey Oswald's wife or mother, 'Is there anything we can do for you?'

You don't know that there's no evidence of links between Osama and his brothers. It's basic police work. You say, 'Will you stay in touch with us when you go back to Saudi Arabia?' They just asked for their passports, did a quick check and that was it? After 3,000 people died, couldn't they do a little arm twisting? At least a little pinkie twisting?"

Q: You mock the "coalition of the willing" by only showing the tiny countries that have voiced support. But you leave out England, Spain, Italy and Poland. Why?

Moore: "This film exists as a counterbalance to what you see on cable news about the coalition. I'm trying to counter the Orwellian nature of the Big Lie, as if when you hear that term, the 'coalition,' that the whole world is behind us."

Q: You make it seem as if the Democratic opposition were totally silent about the war. Why don't you have one clip of Howard Dean, whose antiwar campaign was on the front pages for months?

Moore: "I'm showing the Democratic leadership in Congress being submissive. I don't just imply -- I say the Democratic leadership was a bunch of wimps. If Howard Dean was making this movie, he'd show the same scene of those guys being silent."

Q: When you show footage of Bush in the National Guard, you play an excerpt from Eric Clapton's "Cocaine." Isn't that a cheap shot?

Moore: "I was in the editing room and there were too many documents and words in that scene, and I wanted some music to spice it up. It's an amazing coincidence that I would land on that song, isn't it?"

Q: You make the point that the Bush administration has a special relationship with the Saudis. How is that any different from the special relationship many Washington leaders have with the state of Israel?

Moore: One big difference is that Israel is a democracy and Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship. They celebrated New Year's Day a few years ago by chopping people's heads off. Maybe I missed that when it happened in Israel. Anyway, the support Bush and the Republicans feign for Israel is because Israel is near our oil. If the oil wasn't there, I bet those same Republicans wouldn't [care] about Israel."

It was a vintage Moore performance, like his films, full of cheeky humor, arresting detail and passionate rhetoric. For me, the problem with Moore is that if you judge him as a documentary filmmaker, his work is undermined by too many shaded facts and slippery conclusions. But if you judge him as a political satirist, he's a supremely gifted bomb thrower. After all, there is nothing in "9/11" that's any more outrageous than what you can hear any day on Rush Limbaugh's or Sean Hannity's radio shows.

We seem to love rabble-rousers of all political stripes. But if Moore is going to bash Bush as a liar and ridicule the news media as lap dogs, his case needs to be airtight. When you're a fearless muckraker, you look awfully silly stomping around with big gobs of mud on your own shoes.

The Big Picture runs Tuesday in Calendar. If you have questions, ideas or criticism, e-mail them to patrick.goldstein@latimes.

Copyright 2004 The Times Mirror Company; Los Angeles Times
All Rights Reserved
Los Angeles Times
 

DT4K

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2002
6,944
3
81
Originally posted by: badmouse
I'm sure this is troll bait but Michael Moore loves America. He just chooses to question things in it rather than love it like a 4 year old child would his mother...
Yes he does love America. It's his motivation for showing what he thinks is wrong with it.

To German fans, Moore asked, "Should such an ignorant people [Americans] lead the world?"

When a Japanese interviewer remarked that Moored did not appear to like America very much, his response was, "I like America to some extent"

In England, regarding American intellegence, Moore said "They are possible the dumbest people on the planet."

While in Canada, Moore stated "Just for my own Mental health, I need to go and sit in a room with 600 Canadians and watch this movie."

Statement by Columbine victim mother Anne Hechter: "It's laughable that Moore attempts to portray himself as an anti-establishment liberal who is the voice of the common folk, when in fact he is no better than the greedy capitalists he shuns. Maybe now that he has made millions of dollars off the blood of our children he could toss a DVD or two our way to view."

Just a couple of the lies in his latest propaganda piece of garbage pretending to be documentary:

Moore claims that President Bush arranged special flights to get the bin Laden family out of America. The truth is that former Terrorism Czar and Bush Administration critic Richard Clarke has stated that the decision was his and his alone, and the 9/11 Commission supports this claim.

Moore claims that the only reason the US invaded Afghanistan was to build a pipeline. As of this writing the pipeline still has not been built, and there are no plans for one.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,924
7,031
136
Originally posted by: Kraeji
More ignorant that other countries? I think not.. look at most of europe.

Better to clean up your own country before attacking others, don't you think?
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
er, isn't this for the review of the movie? if you haven't seen it, why post here?

*hold for my review tomorrow*
 

Hecubus2000

Senior member
Dec 1, 2000
674
0
0
After reviewing a number of Michael Moore's works, I have come to the conclusion that he is a Stupid White Man.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Moore himself said that it is not fair and balanced and that he wants Pres. Bush out of office.

I don't need to see it.
 

anonmouseuser

Senior member
Jun 25, 2002
288
0
0
I feel sorry for the troops in Iraq. Especially the ones who need to get 'pumped up' before they go out on the hunt.
 

Chiboy

Diamond Member
Jun 4, 2002
3,814
6
81
Karsten, You are a Bush lover if the only link you posted was to a very unbiased review. Take the Offical out of you title :|, There is no "Offical" Review.

Edit: Or change it to Official....Reviews for Fahrenheit 9/11
 

MisterMe

Senior member
Apr 16, 2002
438
0
0
Originally posted by: Kraeji
im excited to see this movie.. Micheal moore is awesome.. i really hate america.. so does he
Oh man....that's such a sorry perspective. MM doesn't hate America...
 

Rage187

Lifer
Dec 30, 2000
14,276
4
81
I want to use my 4000th post to say MM is a piece of liberal sh!t.

He keeps spoon feeding leftwing dribble to the ignorant masses.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,999
2,680
126
Well hes a definately a left wing propagandist, thats for sure. And were the hell was he when Clinton was getting serviced in the White House? Where was his mockmentaries then? Oh thats right, because his politics fall in line with the gun confiscating, do-nothing-about-terrorism, ex pres.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Clinton didn't destroy a nation. He didn't destroy the lives of thousands of Iraqis.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,999
2,680
126
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Clinton didn't destroy a nation. He didn't destroy the lives of thousands of Iraqis.

Bush didnt destroy a nation. He liberated a two countries. Clinton destroyed any possible respect for his presidency by wagging that finger at us and saying he didnt do something and then later apologizing for it.

AND btw, this thread is about MM and his mocumentary.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
F9/11 is damning of Bush. I really hope Bush burns at the stake in November.
 

feelingshorter

Platinum Member
May 5, 2004
2,439
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"By all means go and see this terrible film, and take your friends, and if the fools in the audience strike up one cry, in favor of surrender or defeat, feel free to join in the conversation."

"However, I think we can agree that the film is so flat-out phony"

"Perhaps vaguely aware that his movie so completely lacks gravitas, Moore concludes with a sonorous reading of some words from George Orwell."

I always thought news articles/reviews wernt supposed to be THAT baised. He keeps attacking the director again and again. Its like reading a flame war on the fourms, look how many times he attacks the director. What gets me of all is the last paragraph. I havent seen the movie but i dint know he also didnt support the war in Afgan and all the other places. I thought it was just the war in Iraq, i guess the director of the movie is totaly ANTI WAR. Not only that it states that if he had his way "Kuwait would have remained part of Iraq." WTH! WTH! It was in the first Gulf War that Kuwait got invaded by Iraq. This guy that wrote the article...simply CRAP. Totaly crap.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
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WTF, It is only playing in one tiny cinema, out of 20 that we have around here, and it is the SMALLEST place in the most liberal part of the town, which means I have to sit with commies to watch this film.