Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
Dude, you need to check your priorities. No apologies for Clinton's lying here...
No matter which party does it (and they all the same these days), how could anyone think a personal sex scandal is worse than committing war crimes (abu ghraib), "pre-emptive" invasions, 2 "patriot" acts, getting the US kicked out of the Human Rights panel of the UN, etc?
Iraq Body Count
Give Bush a second chance
Pepsei
Lifer
- Dec 14, 2001
- 12,895
- 1
- 0
Oh come on, IF China told us that Florida is now a no flying zone and started to patrol the sky there, of course we'll tell China to go fvck themselves and start shooting at the planes there.
Now, yes, that's an act of war because we set up that rule that fit our agenda. However, why were we patroling the Iraqi sky? Gathering WMD info?
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
Love the China analogy that is like comparing apples and spam. Not to mention the worst one I have ever heard I nearly squirted milk out my nose!
No because Saddam liked to kill people and after the first gulf war he killed tens of thousands. And yes he did have WMD then so why not watch. You're not one of these mindless boobs who think he NEVER had WMD. He already used them on his own people.
Pepsei
Lifer
- Dec 14, 2001
- 12,895
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: EXman
Love the China analogy that is like comparing apples and spam. Not to mention the worst one I have ever heard I nearly squirted milk out my nose!
No because Saddam liked to kill people and after the first gulf war he killed tens of thousands. And yes he did have WMD then so why not watch. You're not one of these mindless boobs who think he NEVER had WMD. He already used them on his own people.
I hate China, so I use them whenever I can.
I never said he didn't have WMD, I'm saying that IF we were out there to gather WMD info, we did a very bad job, might as well not patrol the sky.
Chaotic42
Lifer
- Jun 15, 2001
- 34,614
- 1,782
- 126
I don't think that analogy really fits.
Perhaps if Mexico were a Chinese ally, the US invaded Mexico to conquer it, China came over and beat us out of Mexico and back to, say, Houston, and then relinquished control of that part of Texas back over to us (which they would have obligation to do), and then set up a no-fly zone over said part of Texas to prevent us from attacking Mexico, then that would be relevant.
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 61
I watched the movie last night. The first 15 minutes was about the election. The way Moore presented the event was pretty slanted. It was like Florida was the only state that voted, and as if no one voted for Bush or wanted him to be President. Moore failed to say anything about Gore losing his home state of TN. In fact if Gore had won TN, FL would not have mattered.
Next, Moore showed the video of Bush in the Florida classroom as America was getting attacked on 9/11. The Chief of Staff comes in to the classroom and whispers to Bush. Moore assumes and tells the audience that he told Bush that America was under attack and that Bush sat there, "not knowing what to do, with no one telling his what to do." The truth is we don't know what he said to Bush. I will point out ONE thing. After the Chief of Staff whispered words to Bush, he didn't stand there waiting for Bush's response. In my opinion he didn't ask Bush a question and he certainly didn't ask, "Mr. President, what should we do?" Had he asked a question, he would have waited for Bush to answer. Instead he backs away from Bush. Folks, under these circumstances, there are planned processes, no one has to wait for the president to call the shots. IMO, when the Chief of Staff walks into the classroom, and he whispers into Bush's ear, he says, "this is what happened, this is what we are doing about it, and this is what I am waiting for. When I find out about this or that, I will let you know further info." So, yes, Bush sat there reading to second graders, but there is activity going on, there is a response to the situation. I can only ask, what COULD the president do in this situation? Where does he go and what does he do?
Next, Moore tells about the bin Laden family flown out of the country. He states that they were flown out of the country without being questioned by the authorities. This is not true. They were questioned, and the truth is we don't know what questions they were asked. The bin laden family booted Osama from the family, and he was booted from Saudi Arabia. Moore does tell about this later in the movie. The bin Laden family does have a lot of money invested in the US.Why would they want their investments to fall? Why would they want to lose money? Would they want to destroy a country in which they had billions and billions of dollars invested?
When Moore goes into the war in Iraq, he says that we were attacking a country that had never attacked us before, never murdered an American citizen and had never threatened the United States, and that Bush lied about WMD being in Iraq. Well, some of this is true, very true indeed. But what I didn't see is what was being done about Iraq before Bush was ever elected. The way Moore presented this war in Iraq, was as if, Iraq had not been on American minds before Bush was elected. He ignored the fact that the previous president was the one who warned Americans about Saddam WMD programs and capabilities. He ignored the fact that it was the previous president who made it US policy of regime change in Iraq. He ignored the fact that the previous president bombed Iraq for it's unwillingness to comply with UN resolutions. My point is, if there is a conspiracy in THIS whitehouse, there MUST have been a conspiracy in the previous whitehouse, and the one before that, too. The truth is, without Clinton's policies on Iraq, without the UN resolutions regarding Iraq, Bush would have NEVER been able to ship 150,000 troops there.
Moore fails in this movie, and for various reasons. First, he never tells the other side of the story. A successful documentary is supposed to bring the audience both sides of a story, go into detail regarding all facts, and allow the audience to come up with their own conclusion. Also, after watching the movie, I would like to tell Moore, "either I have nothing to worry about, or both the elite Democrats and Republicans have hijacked this country. Because it certainly isn't just one party. When Moore showed the Marines recruiting poorer people for the militay, am I to believe that this goes on only under Republican administrations? When he says that Congress voted to invade Iraq, am I to believe that only Republicans voted yes? When he states that there was only ONE member of Congress who had a child in Iraq, am I to believe that Congress is full of only Republicans?
Moore failed to show the real problem in America. The problem we have in America is easily summed up by the election in November. Americans have ONLY two choices. Both voted yes to invading Iraq. Both were in the same fraternity together in college. Both are elite members of society with massive stacks of money. Neither has ever worked hard for their money. I guess a movie about America's real problem might not make millions of dollars, nor be accepted by the blind sheep following their choice of party. While the Dem's fight the Rep's, and the Rep's fight the Dem's, the rest of us are trying to figure out just what happened to America.
I don't know who shot Kennedy, and I don't know why Clinton gave Bush the rationale to invade Iraq. All I do know is that we aren't in Kansas anymore, and those of us that can see past the theatre presented to us by our government and media, feel a little like Dorothy.
Next, Moore showed the video of Bush in the Florida classroom as America was getting attacked on 9/11. The Chief of Staff comes in to the classroom and whispers to Bush. Moore assumes and tells the audience that he told Bush that America was under attack and that Bush sat there, "not knowing what to do, with no one telling his what to do." The truth is we don't know what he said to Bush. I will point out ONE thing. After the Chief of Staff whispered words to Bush, he didn't stand there waiting for Bush's response. In my opinion he didn't ask Bush a question and he certainly didn't ask, "Mr. President, what should we do?" Had he asked a question, he would have waited for Bush to answer. Instead he backs away from Bush. Folks, under these circumstances, there are planned processes, no one has to wait for the president to call the shots. IMO, when the Chief of Staff walks into the classroom, and he whispers into Bush's ear, he says, "this is what happened, this is what we are doing about it, and this is what I am waiting for. When I find out about this or that, I will let you know further info." So, yes, Bush sat there reading to second graders, but there is activity going on, there is a response to the situation. I can only ask, what COULD the president do in this situation? Where does he go and what does he do?
Next, Moore tells about the bin Laden family flown out of the country. He states that they were flown out of the country without being questioned by the authorities. This is not true. They were questioned, and the truth is we don't know what questions they were asked. The bin laden family booted Osama from the family, and he was booted from Saudi Arabia. Moore does tell about this later in the movie. The bin Laden family does have a lot of money invested in the US.Why would they want their investments to fall? Why would they want to lose money? Would they want to destroy a country in which they had billions and billions of dollars invested?
When Moore goes into the war in Iraq, he says that we were attacking a country that had never attacked us before, never murdered an American citizen and had never threatened the United States, and that Bush lied about WMD being in Iraq. Well, some of this is true, very true indeed. But what I didn't see is what was being done about Iraq before Bush was ever elected. The way Moore presented this war in Iraq, was as if, Iraq had not been on American minds before Bush was elected. He ignored the fact that the previous president was the one who warned Americans about Saddam WMD programs and capabilities. He ignored the fact that it was the previous president who made it US policy of regime change in Iraq. He ignored the fact that the previous president bombed Iraq for it's unwillingness to comply with UN resolutions. My point is, if there is a conspiracy in THIS whitehouse, there MUST have been a conspiracy in the previous whitehouse, and the one before that, too. The truth is, without Clinton's policies on Iraq, without the UN resolutions regarding Iraq, Bush would have NEVER been able to ship 150,000 troops there.
Moore fails in this movie, and for various reasons. First, he never tells the other side of the story. A successful documentary is supposed to bring the audience both sides of a story, go into detail regarding all facts, and allow the audience to come up with their own conclusion. Also, after watching the movie, I would like to tell Moore, "either I have nothing to worry about, or both the elite Democrats and Republicans have hijacked this country. Because it certainly isn't just one party. When Moore showed the Marines recruiting poorer people for the militay, am I to believe that this goes on only under Republican administrations? When he says that Congress voted to invade Iraq, am I to believe that only Republicans voted yes? When he states that there was only ONE member of Congress who had a child in Iraq, am I to believe that Congress is full of only Republicans?
Moore failed to show the real problem in America. The problem we have in America is easily summed up by the election in November. Americans have ONLY two choices. Both voted yes to invading Iraq. Both were in the same fraternity together in college. Both are elite members of society with massive stacks of money. Neither has ever worked hard for their money. I guess a movie about America's real problem might not make millions of dollars, nor be accepted by the blind sheep following their choice of party. While the Dem's fight the Rep's, and the Rep's fight the Dem's, the rest of us are trying to figure out just what happened to America.
I don't know who shot Kennedy, and I don't know why Clinton gave Bush the rationale to invade Iraq. All I do know is that we aren't in Kansas anymore, and those of us that can see past the theatre presented to us by our government and media, feel a little like Dorothy.
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
- 142
- 116
bamacre, documentaries don't have to show both sides equally. Even most of our "news" has a slant, even though news reporters are supposed to be unbiased and fair. Documentaries are non-fiction works with a goal in mind; in that regard, Moore succeeded.
WHAT? You're the idiot who's slanting things. If I were to hit a boy with a car on his way home, and then someone provided footage of it, your defense would be that the footage is slanted because it fails to show that he wouldn't have been hit if he took another street.
YOU PEOPLE ARE ILLOGICAL MORONS.
Chaotic42
Lifer
- Jun 15, 2001
- 34,614
- 1,782
- 126
Here:
-
re·pub·li·can ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-pbl-kn)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a republic.
2. Favoring a republic as the best form of government.
3. Republican Of, relating to, characteristic of, or belonging to the Republican Party of the United States.
-
It's not that hard. English is a pretty crazy language, but it shouldn't be that hard to find a proper definition of Republican.
Chaotic42
Lifer
- Jun 15, 2001
- 34,614
- 1,782
- 126
I don't know what I did to piss you off, but you seem to be getting hot and bothered over nothing.
There most certainly is a proper definition and I gave it to you. A republican fits the first two definitions and a Republican fits the last definition.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
From another forum I hong in, the OP is German & not a MM hater:
Well that ruins it for me....
Well that ruins it for me....
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