Well, if you think Bush (as Gov. of Texas) "invited" the Taliban reps to Texas re: oil is an example as one of Moore's "facts", then I don't want to wake up.
That is not true...
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A transcript released by the film's producers shows Moore telling Kennedy that "there is only one member [of Congress] who has a kid over there in Iraq." He asks Kennedy to help him pass out literature encouraging others "to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq."
Kennedy replies, "I'd be happy to. Especially those who voted for the war. [As Kennedy did.] I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan."
To which Moore replies: "I appreciate it."
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a nephew is not a son, and is not answering moore's question. he has all right to edit out his response because he did not answer the question. if i ask that question, and your reponse is "i like pasta" it is not related to the question, and should be edited out. moore did not ask if he had a nephew, he asked if he had a son enlisted. he does have a son, just not enlisted, which is the point moore was trying to make.
How is using history being ignorant? Hitler used propaganda to have the people love him and to this day many Germans still think he was the greatest thing to happen to their country.
Now we have the reverse thing being done to Bush. This film is making people think he is the worst thing to happen to this country.
What's wrong with propaganda fool?
We drop good propaganda in Iraq for people to love us and to this day some Iraqs still think that we are the best thing to happen to their country.
Fact: Unical did funded a $2 billion pipeline project through Afghanistan, but did pull out (or denied) because of "political instability). After all the country only has a natural gas reserve of 5 trillion cubic feet, and it would make a good path for a pipeline to the sea. Construction didn't resume until after the Taliban was no longer in power.
Fact: The Taliban government did not have anything to do with 9/11 or killed any US citizen, nor did they declared war on US.
Fact: Saudis and the Bin Laden Group do have a lot of freaking money invested in the US economy, now if they diversify their investment, and "coincidentally" invested in the companies that are benefiting from the so called war, you decide.
Fact: They (the Bin Ladens) did leave the country on airplanes immediately after 9/11.
Fact: Bush did run all of the companies that he presided of over to the ground, including the one he's running.
Fact: Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, or terrorists, or WMD, or has ever declared war, or bombed the US.
Fact: Bush violated one of the biggest rule of engagement, that is trying to assassinate a state leader of a sovereign country before declaring war.
Fact: Iraq is the second largest oil deposit on earth.
Fact: Soldiers are dying every day in Iraq, and yeah, the Iraqis "love" us.
Fact: Oh, and all the people that were working for certain connected companies, and organizations that are benefiting from the war, were, or are still working for those companies. The movie just show you how they are connected, now, if you want to connect the dot, you can, or you can just sit there and scream conspiracy theorists.
Yeah, we sit here and say that they (the Iraqis) deserve it, but let's reverse the situation. Some people would storm in your house in the middle of the night and treat you like criminals, even though you've done nothing wrong, and all in the name of "bringing peace to your country". How much would you have liked the "helpers" then?
Do you hate terrorists? You do right? After all, they did kill >3000 innocent Americans. Now, is that hatred enough for you to want to cut off the heads of any citizen of national origins from which these terrorists are spawned? Is that hatred enough for you to string their bodies (we're talking just innocent people from the same country), mutilated, burnt, and still beating on them? You gotta stop and think why. We sit here with our TVs, watching our "credible" new sources, googling for information and we think we know every thing on earth. Ignorance is what spawned that hatred my friend.
Fact: The Taliban government did not have anything to do with 9/11 or killed any US citizen, nor did they declared war on US.
Fact: Saudis and the Bin Laden Group do have a lot of freaking money invested in the US economy, now if they diversify their investment, and "coincidentally" invested in the companies that are benefiting from the so called war, you decide.
Fact: They (the Bin Ladens) did leave the country on airplanes immediately after 9/11.
Fact: Bush did run all of the companies that he presided of over to the ground, including the one he's running.
Fact: Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, or terrorists, or WMD, or has ever declared war, or bombed the US.
Fact: Bush violated one of the biggest rule of engagement, that is trying to assassinate a state leader of a sovereign country before declaring war.
Fact: Iraq is the second largest oil deposit on earth.
Fact: Soldiers are dying every day in Iraq, and yeah, the Iraqis "love" us.
Fact: Oh, and all the people that were working for certain connected companies, and organizations that are benefiting from the war, were, or are still working for those companies. The movie just show you how they are connected, now, if you want to connect the dot, you can, or you can just sit there and scream conspiracy theorists.
Yeah, we sit here and say that they (the Iraqis) deserve it, but let's reverse the situation. Some people would storm in your house in the middle of the night and treat you like criminals, even though you've done nothing wrong, and all in the name of "bringing peace to your country". How much would you have liked the "helpers" then?
Do you hate terrorists? You do right? After all, they did kill >3000 innocent Americans. Now, is that hatred enough for you to want to cut off the heads of any citizen of national origins from which these terrorists are spawned? Is that hatred enough for you to string their bodies (we're talking just innocent people from the same country), mutilated, burnt, and still beating on them? You gotta stop and think why. We sit here with our TVs, watching our "credible" new sources, googling for information and we think we know every thing on earth. Ignorance is what spawned that hatred my friend.
Sure.....point is?
Uhh, except for the fact that they sheltered and help run/administer the AQ training camps where the hijackers not to mention thousands of other terrorists trained. The US even offered a way for them to save face by extraditing OBL after 9-11.....more than fair imo.
I don't understand what the second part of your statement is saying. Is it saying that they could invest defense companies and make money, or that they already have. Please, defense companies are being invested in by tons of people.
Umm, ok. They did, but they were properly screened/interviewed as the head of the 9-11 commission (a democrat) even said. These are the people who have denounced OBL many years ago too.
Not sure what you are trying to say.....
Well, this is still up in the air. It does seem that the Clinton (remember, they said the *same things* as Biush admin has said) oversetimated the WMD capability of Iraq. However, AQ agents *have* met with Iraqi agents, and Russia recently said Iraq was preparing to perpetrate acts of terrorism inside the US (whether with/without AQ I don't know).
Uhh, are you kidding me? He declared war while simultaneously launching surgical strikes in order to topple the resistance prematurely so that the war may be over quicker.
And the US would have had a *lot* easier of a time controlling those through big oil companies by lifting sanctions than by going to war. The press/public couldhave been kept in the dark.......So please, drop the 'oil for blood slogan.'
Ummm, k.
You mean like Cheney and Halliburton? Oh wait, Cheney severed controlling ties with Halliburton as per the rules of the presidency/vice presidency. Fact is, there are only a handful of companies able to handle such a large reconstruction effort. Hallibrton happened to be one of them. Some mom and pop agency could not.
Actually, a more apt analogy would be if someone accidentally stormed in your house while looking for somebody else. Civilian casulties were *very* low in this war. The military went through great pains to minimize them. And yes, there are always going to be depraved human beings who, as soldiers, mistreat others and even brutalize them. It happens in civilized societys, and it happens in war. It does not *ever* make it right, but do not sensationalize it when it should not be,
What are you trying to say? They hate us more than we hate them? No, we will not stoop to their level and behead someone on TV and parade the corpse around. Did some soldiers act wrongly and abuse prisoners at Abu Gharaib? Yes, and they will be dealt with. I just don't see what your rhetorical questios are leading to in the last point....
Phew...that was longer than I had planned.
To Wart:
1) There are money to be made, serious money.
2) How the hell are you gonna give something up that you don't own in the first place? Some one come and ask you for lunch money, you don't have it so they proceed to beat the living crap out of you... does that make any sense? You might know that the money comes from US treasury and there are plenty of it in banks, but you don't own any of it, how the fcuk do you give it up?
So Taliban can't deliver Bin Laden, lets say if they can, or want to capture him, and then handed him over to the US, do you know what would happen to their government? Think fool.
Not to mention most of the hi-jackers were Saudis.
3) Have you ever played connect the dots when you were a kid? Now if the dots on the paper represent a car (and would appear as a car to most people), and you say you can make it into a balloon, by all mean. Color it your way, I'm not trying to change your point of view, I'm just pointing out what I see.
4) Define your "many years" is it 2-3 years, up until one of Bin Laden's son got married?
5) Are you just so dense that you don't see Bush is a failure? We are in the largest deficit, EVER, everything else aside, that to me screams incompetent.
6) We're not talking about Clinton, and as a politician, sometimes, he has to go with the grain. And even our own intelligence is so convoluted, and faulty, what make you think that the Russians are any better? Last I check, we did win the coldwar.
7) Uh... check your "facts" again...
8) Did you see the movie? The part where this one guy from the new Iraq commission keep saying "There are a lot of money to be made once the oil starts flowing"? And exactly my point, the US would have a lot of control over the oil, because we can't really place an embargo on ourselves.
9) Thank you for finally agreeing with me on something.
10) It's obvious that you DID NOT see the movie, because there were a lot more names and connections than that.
11) Civilian casualties were not low in this war "The roof, the roof is on fire... we don't need water let the motherfcuker burn... " ring a bell? The storming in the houses are not accidentally, because the troops are going house to house and are looking at everybody. I guess you don't fully understand the word oppression, nor have you ever had to deal with it.
12) It's not about stooping to their level, while you're thinking that you're a holly saviour that god sent down to rid and save the world from these "babaric evil doers", that's just YOUR opinion.
I'm not looking for an argument, but please, if you do, make sure that you cover your bases.
1) There are money to be made, serious money.
2) How the hell are you gonna give something up that you don't own in the first place? Some one come and ask you for lunch money, you don't have it so they proceed to beat the living crap out of you... does that make any sense? You might know that the money comes from US treasury and there are plenty of it in banks, but you don't own any of it, how the fcuk do you give it up?
So Taliban can't deliver Bin Laden, lets say if they can, or want to capture him, and then handed him over to the US, do you know what would happen to their government? Think fool.
Not to mention most of the hi-jackers were Saudis.
3) Have you ever played connect the dots when you were a kid? Now if the dots on the paper represent a car (and would appear as a car to most people), and you say you can make it into a balloon, by all mean. Color it your way, I'm not trying to change your point of view, I'm just pointing out what I see.
4) Define your "many years" is it 2-3 years, up until one of Bin Laden's son got married?
5) Are you just so dense that you don't see Bush is a failure? We are in the largest deficit, EVER, everything else aside, that to me screams incompetent.
6) We're not talking about Clinton, and as a politician, sometimes, he has to go with the grain. And even our own intelligence is so convoluted, and faulty, what make you think that the Russians are any better? Last I check, we did win the coldwar.
7) Uh... check your "facts" again...
8) Did you see the movie? The part where this one guy from the new Iraq commission keep saying "There are a lot of money to be made once the oil starts flowing"? And exactly my point, the US would have a lot of control over the oil, because we can't really place an embargo on ourselves.
9) Thank you for finally agreeing with me on something.
10) It's obvious that you DID NOT see the movie, because there were a lot more names and connections than that.
11) Civilian casualties were not low in this war "The roof, the roof is on fire... we don't need water let the motherfcuker burn... " ring a bell? The storming in the houses are not accidentally, because the troops are going house to house and are looking at everybody. I guess you don't fully understand the word oppression, nor have you ever had to deal with it.
12) It's not about stooping to their level, while you're thinking that you're a holly saviour that god sent down to rid and save the world from these "babaric evil doers", that's just YOUR opinion.
I'm not looking for an argument, but please, if you do, make sure that you cover your bases.
Yea there is, but it is not a zero sum game. The Central Asian steppes badly need monetary investment, and the Uncoal deal would pump billions through the region. It would help as long as they didn't squander it a la Saudi Arabia.
This does not make sense to me. The Taliban knew where Bin Laden was (heck so did the Pakistanis most likely). They ran camps with him. The *least* they could have done was say that they will help us find him. Saying that he was not there, or that they could not contact him is blatantly false.
I reccomend reading some books re: Central Asia and Afghan in particular. The indigenous people of Afghanistan for the most part detest the foreign Arabs who came into the region during the Afghan resistance. OBL was one of these. Kicking OBL out may have hurt the Taliban in the eyes of Islamic extremists around the world, but it was their choice to make. They decided to try and fight it out.
What I meant was that I do not understand what you were originally saying. Are the bin Ladens profiting fianncially from the war? Probably, if they have a half decent broker who invested their money in defense companies. Does that mean that they tell OBL to go wreak havoc so they can make money? Highly unlikely imo as the defense companies would make about as much $$ regardless.
They denounced mid 1990's....
Largest in dollar terms, yes. Largest as percent of GDP? No. That is like saying you are 1000x richer than your great great grandfather who only had 100 dollars in the bank back in 1850. Well, that 100$ back then is like 1 million now. That is due to inflation. Our debt is large, but not that large as a % of GDP. And with economic growth not seen since the 80's, I think we will be fine.
The KGB, now FSB was not at fault for losing the Cold War. Whatever you can say about the Russians, they have a high quality intelligence. That does not mean however, that their claim is true.
l
Lemme look around....
Well, seeing as that Iraq pretty much controls its own oil now, I guess you could say the Bush/Cheney/Illuminati cabal failed.
..
No, I won't lie, I have not seen it. I most likely will sometime in the next few months....I'll look into that then.
Thankfully, I have not truly been repressed (in the political sense) because I live in a country where that doesn't fly. I will get some figures/numbers for you in a bit....
oookay. Now I see what you meant. Yea, there is the chance that we garnered more hate from Iraqi's/arabs in general for going into Iraq, but I think that once the security situation winds down, and the people in Iraq can look back on what they went through, they *will* view the US as at least allies in their fight against Hussein.
I understand, and I would feel bad if this thread got closed for this argument belonging in pol/news, but I just don't like to see things believed that I think need to be more closely examined. No hard feelings.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
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Nice way to compare two things that are completely different. And yes, I would say the same thing if 9/11 had happened somewhere in the Congo.
Guess who's working on the "Iraqi controlled" oil in Iraq right now?
Sure, the US knew where Bin Ladin was too, and with far superior firepower, manpower, equipments, intelligence, he's still Usama Bin Hiding. (Or is he? hmmmm)
Just like we were sure that there are WMDs in Iraq.
Oh... and a $100 of US dollars at any time was never equivalent to $1,000,000 now. So according to your "inflation" calculation, when did we have the largest deficit?
Sure, the US knew where Bin Ladin was too, and with far superior firepower, manpower, equipments, intelligence, he's still Usama Bin Hiding. (Or is he? hmmmm)
Just like we were sure that there are WMDs in Iraq.
Oh... and a $100 of US dollars at any time was never equivalent to $1,000,000 now. So according to your "inflation" calculation, when did we have the largest deficit?
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Me! Maybe not. But it's some contractors from Texas that's guarded by US troops that are working the oil fields. I'm sure you can find the sources, I have full confident in your abilities and intelligence to find this information.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Why would I find the sources when you're the one spouting off the 'facts'. Obviously you already 'know' so you'll know exactly where to go. You can't cop out that easily because you saw a movie and now think you know things.
"The U.S. Army Corp of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary KBR the main contract to fight oil well fires and reconstruct Iraqi oil fields. Its total contract is worth $10 billion."
Kindly STFU!
I said as simply an example in order to show what inflation can do.
Basically, our deficit as percentage of GDP is hovering under 40%, whereas most other industrialized nations (such as France/Britain) it is well over 40.
And like I said, Halliburton is probably the only company that can handle such a task unless the Army wanted to award the contract out in a bunch of different sections.
I'm done!
and when the hell did Europe sneaked in the conversation?
EDIT: Give me $10 billion, not only I'll fix the fields, put out the fire, I'll fcuking give you a themepark based out of petroleum products.
EDIT II: And you still don't know shiet.
and when the hell did Europe sneaked in the conversation? EDIT: Give me $10 billion, not only I'll fix the fields, put out the fire, I'll fcuking give you a themepark based out of petroleum products.
EDIT II: And you still don't know shiet.
I just wanted to say that I made a mistake....it is not 40%, but 4%.
That's why I am not a math major.
Source is the House of Reps....(PDF)
That's why I am not a math major.
Source is the House of Reps....(PDF)
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Originally posted by: cr4zymofo
I'm done!
EDIT: Give me $10 billion, not only I'll fix the fields, put out the fire, I'll fcuking give you a themepark based out of petroleum products.
EDIT II: And you still don't know shiet.
I still don't get what you're trying to prove by saying Halliburton is fixing the oil fields and putting "X" around the Iraqi controlled parts. Too many conspiracy theories running around out there.
Alright, alright, I'll play your game, so according to most of your truths, this is what I should be saying:
Bush is a great president, competent, intelligent, and saved us and the world from a horrible, horrible regime, an evil dictator. He has no agendas, no other initiatives other than doing the world a favor, good on ya Dubya.
Halliburton is just a happy go lucky company that got these no-bid contracts from the government, and that's just it. And I'm just jealous because I don't own any of Halliburton.
The war in Iraq is just, we're doing a fabulous job, our troops are safe and the people of Iraq are welcoming us with open arms because we saved them. Sure, some of them are dying, but hey, that's just casualties of war, everybody die in war.
There are plenty of WMDs in Iraq, it's just that there are too much sand, and they are really good at hiding them, but, we'll find them someday.
The Saudis and Bin Ladens have no ties with the Bushes, they're just foreign investors.
Did I miss anything else? Oh, and all these wackos left-wing moronic conspiracy theorists are just that, they should read what the news tell them and leave it at that. Believe in everything the government tell them because it's the ultimate truth, why the heck would the government lie to the people. What a bunch of idiots huh?
For real, I'm done with this thread.
Bush is a great president, competent, intelligent, and saved us and the world from a horrible, horrible regime, an evil dictator. He has no agendas, no other initiatives other than doing the world a favor, good on ya Dubya.
Halliburton is just a happy go lucky company that got these no-bid contracts from the government, and that's just it. And I'm just jealous because I don't own any of Halliburton.
The war in Iraq is just, we're doing a fabulous job, our troops are safe and the people of Iraq are welcoming us with open arms because we saved them. Sure, some of them are dying, but hey, that's just casualties of war, everybody die in war.
There are plenty of WMDs in Iraq, it's just that there are too much sand, and they are really good at hiding them, but, we'll find them someday.
The Saudis and Bin Ladens have no ties with the Bushes, they're just foreign investors.
Did I miss anything else? Oh, and all these wackos left-wing moronic conspiracy theorists are just that, they should read what the news tell them and leave it at that. Believe in everything the government tell them because it's the ultimate truth, why the heck would the government lie to the people. What a bunch of idiots huh?
For real, I'm done with this thread.
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