the principal's office with a group of his advisers might have been just as safe...
but really I concede that it is hard to judge.
the principal's office with a group of his advisers might have been just as safe...
but really I concede that it is hard to judge.
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
- 142
- 116
Bottom Line: The President was not completely at fault for continuing the photo op after hearing about the first plane crash into the WTC. He was probably thinking 'horrible accident' instead of 'attack on US'.
But after the second plane crash, he should have immediately left. I don't care if there wasn't anywhere for him to go or if there was nothing for him to do. All HE should be thinking is that 'my country is under attack' and 'I need to get up to speed on the situation and be involved'.
I honestly think the bastard was sitting there thinking of what to say to the media once they caught wind of the attacks. He is not a true leader and certainly doesn't behave like one.
But after the second plane crash, he should have immediately left. I don't care if there wasn't anywhere for him to go or if there was nothing for him to do. All HE should be thinking is that 'my country is under attack' and 'I need to get up to speed on the situation and be involved'.
I honestly think the bastard was sitting there thinking of what to say to the media once they caught wind of the attacks. He is not a true leader and certainly doesn't behave like one.
Ok, I could not resist seeing it. I will be honest; I started watching it predisposed to not liking it. In the end, I hated it. What did it really have to do with 9/11? It was 80% Iraq/anti-war, very little to do with 9/11. Very little to do with Bush doing wrong other than a) starting the war and b) having some financial relations with the Saudis/bin-Ladens.
My main problem with the film is its indecisiveness. Moore paints Bush as both the biggest idiot on the planet and an evil conniving financial genius, part of a global conspiracy to control the world's oil industry. He paints US soldiers as both poor victims of poverty and immoral punishers of the helpless people of Iraq. He slams the Senate (Democrats included) for not stepping in to question Bush's election but pushes the Democratic party (so many clips of soldiers and poor people saying they want Bush out) the entire film.
It's obviously one-sided and vehemently anti-Bush. If it had a shred of objectiveness I could have taken it seriously. I felt like I was watching Conspiracies on TechTV. Lots of clips thrown in with no context. He must have scoured every possible piece of Bush footage from the last 10 years for the ones that make him look the dumbest.
The film is purposefully propaganda, and Moore makes no apologies for it. For that reason I call BS on it. I felt like I was watching a 112 minute anti-Bush ad. That's really all it was. Any talented documentary filmmaker could throw together a similar film about Clinton and after Kerry's reign (yes I think Kerry will win the election) they can do the same to him.
At one point Moore sliced soundbytes from news broadcasts and made it seem that as many soldiers were lost in Iraq as 'nam. 60,000 Amercians died in Vietnam. So-far the Iraq losses are not even 5% of that figure. It's stuff like that that makes Moore lose cred in my book. At least TRY to be objective and not misleading.
PS: I am not pro-Bush. In fact I am apolitical skewing towards anti-political. For that reason I think the film's partisanism sucked. Moore is no better than Bush when it comes to matters of honesty. Both duped us into Iraq (Bush in war, Moore in film) under the pretense it had something to do with 9/11.
My main problem with the film is its indecisiveness. Moore paints Bush as both the biggest idiot on the planet and an evil conniving financial genius, part of a global conspiracy to control the world's oil industry. He paints US soldiers as both poor victims of poverty and immoral punishers of the helpless people of Iraq. He slams the Senate (Democrats included) for not stepping in to question Bush's election but pushes the Democratic party (so many clips of soldiers and poor people saying they want Bush out) the entire film.
It's obviously one-sided and vehemently anti-Bush. If it had a shred of objectiveness I could have taken it seriously. I felt like I was watching Conspiracies on TechTV. Lots of clips thrown in with no context. He must have scoured every possible piece of Bush footage from the last 10 years for the ones that make him look the dumbest.
The film is purposefully propaganda, and Moore makes no apologies for it. For that reason I call BS on it. I felt like I was watching a 112 minute anti-Bush ad. That's really all it was. Any talented documentary filmmaker could throw together a similar film about Clinton and after Kerry's reign (yes I think Kerry will win the election) they can do the same to him.
At one point Moore sliced soundbytes from news broadcasts and made it seem that as many soldiers were lost in Iraq as 'nam. 60,000 Amercians died in Vietnam. So-far the Iraq losses are not even 5% of that figure. It's stuff like that that makes Moore lose cred in my book. At least TRY to be objective and not misleading.
PS: I am not pro-Bush. In fact I am apolitical skewing towards anti-political. For that reason I think the film's partisanism sucked. Moore is no better than Bush when it comes to matters of honesty. Both duped us into Iraq (Bush in war, Moore in film) under the pretense it had something to do with 9/11.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
You're just making things up man. It doesn't matter what you 'think he might have been thinking' and until we know wtf was whispered into his ear then it doesn't really matter. I guarantee you that the only people who even care about this are internet political wanna-bes and radio talk show hosts. You'll never see anyone with any real political clout ever say a word about this when it matters.
Agreed. SS could have told him to remain where he was until more information was gathered. I would rather him stay in his place and be calm than run around screaming "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
- 33
- 81
Very interesting.
Unfortunately, many people will refuse to read that article or give it any credibility because it originated from Fox.
Moore just likes to insinuate ideas that have no basis in reality. He won't come right out and say it, but instead says "X and Y can't be true...I wonder if Z is....", where Z is some hair brained idea like Bush invaded Afghanistan for Unocal.
after reading the fox article, i looked this up and decided the fox article was misleading...
(these are logged in vacation days btw)
President Jimmy Carter (D) Georgia:
79 Days (over 1 term - 4 years)
President Ronald Reagan (R) California:
335 days (over 2 terms - 8 years)
President George H. W. Bush (R) Texas:
543 days (over 1 term - 4 years)
President William J. Clinton (D) Arkansas:
152 days (over 2 terms - 8 years)
President George W. Bush (R) Texas:
250 days (as of Aug. '03, less than one term!)
(these are logged in vacation days btw)
President Jimmy Carter (D) Georgia:
79 Days (over 1 term - 4 years)
President Ronald Reagan (R) California:
335 days (over 2 terms - 8 years)
President George H. W. Bush (R) Texas:
543 days (over 1 term - 4 years)
President William J. Clinton (D) Arkansas:
152 days (over 2 terms - 8 years)
President George W. Bush (R) Texas:
250 days (as of Aug. '03, less than one term!)
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Argh, writers who do what that guy from Counter Bias does kind of irk me. They say the following is 'of record' and then list it without offering the source.
yea i got pissed off too, but they're not the only site without that data. these vacation days are public record as I understand. The George jr. days were apparently reported by CBS news, but I cannot find the original source.
if you ask yahoo, you get the same results as counterbias
askyahoo
anyhow, the democrats have been working their arses off!
if you ask yahoo, you get the same results as counterbias
askyahoo
anyhow, the democrats have been working their arses off!
Originally posted by: gururu
yea i got pissed off too, but they're not the only site without that data. these vacation days are public record as I understand. The George jr. days were apparently reported by CBS news, but I cannot find the original source.
if you ask yahoo, you get the same results as counterbias
askyahoo
anyhow, the democrats have been working their arses off!
'
The site even says it is classified as a "working vacation" mostly.
On the other hand, I wonder if the SS/FBI/CIA asks for Bush to leave Washington sometimes for unannounced/unspecific terrorist threats. Wouldn't be too suprising.
Heck, I don't care if Bush gets the job done from Crawford or from D.C. or from Camp David. As long as the job gets done.
I just remembered...
The movie is worth seeing just to see a 10 second clip of Britney Spears!!!
The movie is worth seeing just to see a 10 second clip of Britney Spears!!!
I've just seen the movie, and now I can officially comment. And it surprised me to see the theater is packed to the last row, with people from different walks of life, and all ages, on a Tuesday night.
Throughout the movie, I wasn't really paying attention to what Moore said, actually, I don't remember much of what he said. Rather, what the people on screen are saying and what the actions are directed towards, after all, a picture (or video in this case is worth a whole lot more than words).
I don't really wish to engage in a flamefest, there are plenty to go round, and what I'm about to say may incite just that, but what the heck. I just hope that the people are arguing against the movie (or supporting Bush) at least go see the movie. Some one pointed out something about a congressman's telephone number being displayed in paper so people can call and harrass a congressman, watch the movie and find out why. Oh, and Moore did recognize the fact that there is a congressman son that is currently serving in the military.
If after seeing the movie and you are still disputing the facts (after all, this movie is a collection of actual events), then I truly hope that one of these day, some of you will wake up.
I just have one question though, what could cause a human being to hate another human being so much, with an intense hatred that even a charred and multilated body would still getting beaten on? All this hate is not without reasons, watch the movie and find the reasons for yourselves, or at least realize what you've already know. Look further than "Oh, they just a bunch of hateful people".
And what do you know, there are people with Spiderman costumes waiting in line for the 12:01 AM opening show..... what dedication!
EDIT: Oh, and if you think this any bit of this film is fictional, then it would have never passed for a documentary, and would have been laughed out of the theater by now. In the famous words of Mr. T "I pitty the foos..." that are soooooo afraid of being wrong.
Throughout the movie, I wasn't really paying attention to what Moore said, actually, I don't remember much of what he said. Rather, what the people on screen are saying and what the actions are directed towards, after all, a picture (or video in this case is worth a whole lot more than words).
I don't really wish to engage in a flamefest, there are plenty to go round, and what I'm about to say may incite just that, but what the heck. I just hope that the people are arguing against the movie (or supporting Bush) at least go see the movie. Some one pointed out something about a congressman's telephone number being displayed in paper so people can call and harrass a congressman, watch the movie and find out why. Oh, and Moore did recognize the fact that there is a congressman son that is currently serving in the military.
If after seeing the movie and you are still disputing the facts (after all, this movie is a collection of actual events), then I truly hope that one of these day, some of you will wake up.
I just have one question though, what could cause a human being to hate another human being so much, with an intense hatred that even a charred and multilated body would still getting beaten on? All this hate is not without reasons, watch the movie and find the reasons for yourselves, or at least realize what you've already know. Look further than "Oh, they just a bunch of hateful people".
And what do you know, there are people with Spiderman costumes waiting in line for the 12:01 AM opening show..... what dedication!
EDIT: Oh, and if you think this any bit of this film is fictional, then it would have never passed for a documentary, and would have been laughed out of the theater by now. In the famous words of Mr. T "I pitty the foos..." that are soooooo afraid of being wrong.
http://tvplex.go.com/buenavista/ebertandroeper/today.html
check out their VERY BRIEF audio review. Makes a good point about the movie
check out their VERY BRIEF audio review. Makes a good point about the movie
Being on vacation all the time just gives a bad perception. There are some certain things that's hard to do when you're on the golf course, that's why we hear the phrase "The president cuts short his vacation and return to Washington" all the time.
As much as I love working at home, I end up doing less work at home. Hmmmm, technically speaking since whitehouse is where the president lives, he's working at home too.
As much as I love working at home, I end up doing less work at home. Hmmmm, technically speaking since whitehouse is where the president lives, he's working at home too.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 34
- 91
Okay, first Moore himself said it was not a documentary.
Second,
have you actually verified the facts or are you just taking Moore's word for it? You can look at just images sure, but having watched BfC I know just how much Moore can do with an image that he couldn't get away with using words.
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