OFFICIAL NFL week 8 thread

[IndyColtsFan]

You watched that Stanford/USC game last night, didn't you?

I bet you're chomping at the bit!


ass....

I look forward to the pissing and moaning if the Colts secure Luck, especially when they will probably be back in the playoffs next year.

 

[PingSpike]

So in retrospect I guess the most shocking thing about the pats/steelers game was how low the point difference was at the end given how bad they were being beaten on both sides of the ball. The pat's offense didn't even show up until the fourth quarter (although it appeared the steelers D had a good answer to them) and the pat's D was...well, it was the pat's D. Forget stopping them, I'd settle for them slowing them down at this point. If they didn't get that pick it would have looked even more horrible.

 

[Jeffg010]

So in retrospect I guess the most shocking thing about the pats/steelers game was how low the point difference was at the end giving how bad they were being beaten on both sides of the ball. The pat's offense didn't even show up until the fourth quarter (although it appeared the steelers D had a good answer to them) and the pat's D was...well, it was the pat's D. Forget stopping them, I'd settle for them slowing them down at this point. If they didn't get that pick it would have looked even more horrible.

Yup the pat’s D really sucks. Teams with a high power O like NO and GB will destroy them. That is what you get for catering to a crybaby like Brady. One too many high paying receivers and forgetting about the D and this is what you end up with. The Steelers played a smart game by not letting NE’s O get on the field. That first Quarter time of possession was brilliant. Ball control is what killed NE.

 

[bignateyk]

Don't forget the Pats offense only came to life after Woodley went down. With both Woodley and Harrison out, the Steelers effectively had no pass rush at all.

It was nice to finally see the Steelers D play man coverage against a spread dink/dunk offense like NE. If they had done that in the Super Bowl against GB they probably would have won. Instead they stuck with zone against NE/GB year after year and just got picked apart game after game.

edit: The other thing I am curious about is why Belichick didn't challenge what could have been a touchdown with 4 minutes left. That basically cost them better than 2 minutes (and the game). I doubt it would have made a difference in the end given the way the Steelers offense and defense were playing, but still...

 

[Gibson486]

I do not get why people call Brady a cry baby. He is like any other QB in the NFL. He always act the part to ensure plays go his teams way. Peyton Manning does it, Ben does it, even Aaron Rogers does it.

 

[Gibson486]

Don't forget the Pats offense only came to life after Woodley went down. With both Woodley and Harrison out, the Steelers effectively had no pass rush at all.

It was nice to finally see the Steelers D play man coverage against a spread dink/dunk offense like NE. If they had done that in the Super Bowl against GB they probably would have won. Instead they stuck with zone against NE/GB year after year and just got picked apart game after game.

edit: The other thing I am curious about is why Belichick didn't challenge what could have been a touchdown with 4 minutes left. That basically cost them better than 2 minutes (and the game). I doubt it would have made a difference in the end given the way the Steelers offense and defense were playing, but still...

Yeah, that is what I thought too. Shaved a good minute and a half off the clock. Also, going for the onside kick, it just shows that he has no confidence in that defense. Personally, I do not blame him. Honestly, I think he did it to have the redzone defense. The only time that D looked alive was when they were in the red zone. You know, that "bend, but don't break" stuff.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I look forward to the pissing and moaning if the Colts secure Luck, especially when they will probably be back in the playoffs next year.

I think if there is anything we can learn from QB's like Tebow and Rodgers is that when one gets a chance to take a couple years to mature and learn from a Hall of Fame QB it certainly helps your chances. Tebow is being thrust into this too soon and will likely fail. I think the Colts would be extremely LUCKy to get Luck and have him sit for 3 years under Manning who may not have a ton of time left but could teach him a hell of a lot.

I think this is why we often see great QB's come from lower in the draft. They aren't expected to perform immediately. The QB position is the most complicated in the game, while in some positions people can rely on raw talent for a while until they mature, QB is not one of them.. at least not in the NFL.

 

[vi edit]

I think if there is anything we can learn from QB's like Tebow and Rodgers is that when one gets a chance to take a couple years to mature and learn from a Hall of Fame QB it certainly helps your chances. Tebow is being thrust into this too soon and will likely fail. I think the Colts would be extremely LUCKy to get Luck and have him sit for 3 years under Manning who may not have a ton of time left but could teach him a hell of a lot.

I think this is why we often see great QB's come from lower in the draft. They aren't expected to perform immediately. The QB position is the most complicated in the game, while in some positions people can rely on raw talent for a while until they mature, QB is not one of them.. at least not in the NFL.

Eh. Tebow was never a pocket passer. He was a fullback that could sort of throw a ball. His reads are horrible, he has miserable mechanics, and just flat out doesn't have a QB mindset. Compare that to Cam Newton who looks very comfortable and decisive in the pocket and can make about any pass in the book. Some players are meant to play the spot. Others are nothing but college wonders that don't transfer over to the big boy league. Vick is another example of a player who has remade himself into a pocket pass with the running coming as a bail out.

The other intangible is dropping a rookie into a bad situation with terrbile receivers and/or horrible line to protect them. Tebow is screwed in Denver, but do you really think him and Newton swapping places would be much different? More than ever QB's are coming into the league "rookie" ready. Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Dalton, Flacco (he's actually worse now than he was as a rookie), Freeman, ect. These guys step in and play at much higher levels than many long term backup QB's.

And I don't think that Rodgers sitting behind Favre did him any eductional favors other thant what *NOT* to do. Favre wasn't a teacher and had no desire to groom his successor. As far as number 4 cared, he was the only QB on the roster. If anything sitting behind Farve and dealing with the drama made Rodgers more hungry to step up and prove himself.

 

[mvbighead]

I think if there is anything we can learn from QB's like Tebow and Rodgers is that when one gets a chance to take a couple years to mature and learn from a Hall of Fame QB it certainly helps your chances. Tebow is being thrust into this too soon and will likely fail. I think the Colts would be extremely LUCKy to get Luck and have him sit for 3 years under Manning who may not have a ton of time left but could teach him a hell of a lot.

I think this is why we often see great QB's come from lower in the draft. They aren't expected to perform immediately. The QB position is the most complicated in the game, while in some positions people can rely on raw talent for a while until they mature, QB is not one of them.. at least not in the NFL.

Yep... just ask Peyton... err... Ben Roeth... err... Matt Rya... err... Sam Bradf... err... Cam Newt... err....

The QB position is much like any other position. Sometimes, you get a player that is ready to get in the game, and get to playing. The experience helps them improve, and so long as the foundation around them is relatively solid, they can succeed and improve year to year. Sometimes, you get a player that has to sit behind a legend and learn until their opportunity comes. No one way is better than the other.

As a Colts fan, as much as they are anointing Luck as the next top tier QB, you never really know. If Manning comes back and plays another 2-3 years, I dunno how much sense it makes to use the top overall pick on a QB you plan to develop. If he's as good as they are saying he will be, you probably don't want to sit him at all.

The Aaron Rodgers thing made sense because the guy was the 24th pick in his draft. A QB picked at that spot isn't necessarily guaranteed a starting gig, so sitting him a few seasons makes sense. But when you have a HOF QB in Manning, and you use the 1st overall pick to select his successor when he may have 2-3 years in him... I dunno. I'd rather seem them take a Suh-like DT or shop the pick for a handful of others like a 1, 2, and 3, and a 1 the following season. This team has a helluva lot more problems than just QB. And if you want to give Manning a shot at winning another SB, you don't use a 1st overall pick to select a guy that'll ride the pine and do nothing to contribute. You use the 1st selection in the 2nd round for that, IMO. You develop a guy with all the attributes, that needs to refine his skills.

I am sure many Colts fans love the prospect of Luck. I'm not one of them. If they get him, I'll be happy. I just would like to see them shore up the defense and improve the offensive line.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yep... just ask Peyton... err... Ben Roeth... err... Matt Rya... err... Sam Bradf... err... Cam Newt... err....

The QB position is much like any other position. Sometimes, you get a player that is ready to get in the game, and get to playing. The experience helps them improve, and so long as the foundation around them is relatively solid, they can succeed and improve year to year. Sometimes, you get a player that has to sit behind a legend and learn until their opportunity comes. No one way is better than the other.

As a Colts fan, as much as they are anointing Luck as the next top tier QB, you never really know. If Manning comes back and plays another 2-3 years, I dunno how much sense it makes to use the top overall pick on a QB you plan to develop. If he's as good as they are saying he will be, you probably don't want to sit him at all.

The Aaron Rodgers thing made sense because the guy was the 24th pick in his draft. A QB picked at that spot isn't necessarily guaranteed a starting gig, so sitting him a few seasons makes sense. But when you have a HOF QB in Manning, and you use the 1st overall pick to select his successor when he may have 2-3 years in him... I dunno. I'd rather seem them take a Suh-like DT or shop the pick for a handful of others like a 1, 2, and 3, and a 1 the following season. This team has a helluva lot more problems than just QB. And if you want to give Manning a shot at winning another SB, you don't use a 1st overall pick to select a guy that'll ride the pine and do nothing to contribute. You use the 1st selection in the 2nd round for that, IMO. You develop a guy with all the attributes, that needs to refine his skills.

I am sure many Colts fans love the prospect of Luck. I'm not one of them. If they get him, I'll be happy. I just would like to see them shore up the defense and improve the offensive line.

I don't understand the praise of Cam Newton. He's shown flashes of brilliance, but ultimately the only important factor is your ability to WIN.. and he hasn't shown that yet. Same goes for Sam Bradford.. show me some wins. As for Matt Ryan, he is certainly above average, but his stats really don't really show greatness, and his inability to get his team to the next level is a problem. They got DESTROYED last year in the playoffs by Green Bay, and they were at home.

I'm not saying QB's CAN'T come out of nowhere and start immediately and be successful, I'm saying its not extremely likely. Peyton and Ben.. sure.. exceptions though i think. I also think it makes it much more difficult when expectations are not realistic. There are a ton of factors involved of course, but I think personally Tebow is doomed to failure.

 

[vi edit]

I don't understand the praise of Cam Newton. He's shown flashes of brilliance, but ultimately the only important factor is your ability to WIN.. and he hasn't shown that yet. Same goes for Sam Bradford.. show me some wins. As for Matt Ryan, he is certainly above average, but his stats really don't really show greatness, and his inability to get his team to the next level is a problem. They got DESTROYED last year in the playoffs by Green Bay, and they were at home.

I so loathe that argument. Especially when the player you are trying to pick at is the best player on the team. The *ONLY* reason Carolina is competitive is because of Newton. He has brought Steve Smith's career back from the dead and keeps that team in every single game they've played. He didn't miss the field goal yesterday to take it to OT. He didn't let Adrian Peterson destroy the defense. He can't keep teams from returning kicks for TD's. He didn't have the holding call to bring a 40 yard play back. Ect. There are 50 some other players on that team that can lose a game too.

 

[bignateyk]

Yeah, that is what I thought too. Shaved a good minute and a half off the clock. Also, going for the onside kick, it just shows that he has no confidence in that defense. Personally, I do not blame him. Honestly, I think he did it to have the redzone defense. The only time that D looked alive was when they were in the red zone. You know, that "bend, but don't break" stuff.

That was probably the worst onside kick attempt I've ever seen in my life. Their second attempt wasn't far behind :biggrin:

I could almost see the collective Patriots fan base doing a double face-palm.

 

[zinfamous]

I don't understand the praise of Cam Newton. He's shown flashes of brilliance, but ultimately the only important factor is your ability to WIN.. and he hasn't shown that yet. Same goes for Sam Bradford.. show me some wins. As for Matt Ryan, he is certainly above average, but his stats really don't really show greatness, and his inability to get his team to the next level is a problem. They got DESTROYED last year in the playoffs by Green Bay, and they were at home.

I'm not saying QB's CAN'T come out of nowhere and start immediately and be successful, I'm saying its not extremely likely. Peyton and Ben.. sure.. exceptions though i think. I also think it makes it much more difficult when expectations are not realistic. There are a ton of factors involved of course, but I think personally Tebow is doomed to failure.

Cam Newton is helping Carolina put up near 30 points or more per game.

when does the Carolina D ever come into the argument of "helping the team win?"


As for Matt Ryan and the Falcons--they lost to the SB champs, that also destroyed the Steelers, the same team that is destroying most everyone else in the league...

 

[IAteYourMother]

I look forward to the pissing and moaning if the Colts secure Luck, especially when they will probably be back in the playoffs next year.

I wouldn't be so sure about the Colts making the playoffs next year...

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I wouldn't be so sure about the Colts making the playoffs next year...

Oh, I'm not 100% sure they will but I think they have a good shot if Manning is back in form. Coaching is their big issue and that will change after this season (hopefully).

 

[AstroManLuca]

The Aaron Rodgers thing made sense because the guy was the 24th pick in his draft. A QB picked at that spot isn't necessarily guaranteed a starting gig, so sitting him a few seasons makes sense. But when you have a HOF QB in Manning, and you use the 1st overall pick to select his successor when he may have 2-3 years in him... I dunno. I'd rather seem them take a Suh-like DT or shop the pick for a handful of others like a 1, 2, and 3, and a 1 the following season. This team has a helluva lot more problems than just QB. And if you want to give Manning a shot at winning another SB, you don't use a 1st overall pick to select a guy that'll ride the pine and do nothing to contribute. You use the 1st selection in the 2nd round for that, IMO. You develop a guy with all the attributes, that needs to refine his skills.

I am sure many Colts fans love the prospect of Luck. I'm not one of them. If they get him, I'll be happy. I just would like to see them shore up the defense and improve the offensive line.

Aaron Rodgers was expected to go much earlier in the draft. Although you still have a point in that it's uncommon for an early first round pick to sit on the bench. Then again, Jake Locker was picked 8th overall and is holding a clipboard this year.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Oh, I'm not 100% sure they will but I think they have a good shot if Manning is back in form. Coaching is their big issue and that will change after this season (hopefully).

I think they have a decent shot if only because the other teams in their division are so bad. Jaguars have a rookie QB and an aging RB, Titans will probably be starting Locker next year and who knows how well he'll do, and the Texans are the anti-clutch. All Peyton has to do is show up. Of course, he only plays on one side of the ball, but I imagine his very presence will be enough to get their godawful defense to at least try.

 

[goog40]

During more than two decades of covering the NFL, I’ve heard players disparage opponents on numerous occasions. As a journalist who has yet to be crushed by the proliferation of trash-talk, I’ve happily facilitated this dastardly dissing and shared it with the masses when given the chance.

Usually, these statements are designed to rile a rival, or to send a message that a player and his team won’t be intimidated. On Sunday at Sports Authority Field at Mile High, however, Tim Tebow(notes) was disrobed and demystified by a superior team – and then the young quarterback got low-blowed with a degree of disrespect that blew my mind.

“Can you believe ’15’?” one Detroit Lions defender asked after his team’s 45-10 immolation of Tebow and the Denver Broncos. “Come on – that’s embarrassing. I mean, it’s a joke. We knew all week that if we brought any kind of defensive pressure, he couldn’t do anything. In the second half it got boring out there. We were like, ‘Come on – that’s your quarterback? Seriously?’ ”

It would be one thing if this particular defender could be written off as an outlier, but during the time I spent in the Lions’ locker room after the game – and, later, on the phone with various coaches, front-office executives and players around the league – similarly harsh assessments were uttered about the second-year quarterback making his second start of the 2011 season.

Words like atrocious, terrible, completely exposed and not even close to ready kept coming up in these conversations; a couple of Lions even used the term oh my god.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_morning_rush_tebow_struggles_103111

Detroit keeping it classy.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I think they have a decent shot if only because the other teams in their division are so bad. Jaguars have a rookie QB and an aging RB, Titans will probably be starting Locker next year and who knows how well he'll do, and the Texans are the anti-clutch. All Peyton has to do is show up. Of course, he only plays on one side of the ball, but I imagine his very presence will be enough to get their godawful defense to at least try.

Plus, they'll be playing a last-place schedule as well, meaning they'll be playing the Denvers and Miamis of the world.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_morning_rush_tebow_struggles_103111

Detroit keeping it classy.

Let's see how much they talk after Green Bay clobbers them.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Oh, I'm not 100% sure they will but I think they have a good shot if Manning is back in form. Coaching is their big issue and that will change after this season (hopefully).

Possibly, but their team is so bad right now. I know part of that is because they're built to play with the lead+Manning on both sides of the ball, but there's a real dearth of talent on that team. Whatever talent there was is only getting older... Freeny, Mathis, Clark, Brackett are all over 30 and only getting older. It's hard to believe that there are really no younger top tier players on that Colts team, although I may be forgetting some.

 

[AMDZen]

Even with how bad Tim Tebow was yesterday (surrounded by a bad team) he still had a better QBR than Tony Homo (surrounded by talent)

 

[rcpratt]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_morning_rush_tebow_struggles_103111

Detroit keeping it classy.

I love how being honest and blunt is apparently frowned upon now.

I also like how that guy is apparently unable to name this mystery player.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Even with how bad Tim Tebow was yesterday (surrounded by a bad team) he still had a better QBR than Tony Homo (surrounded by talent)

Which begs the question -- when will they finally decide to get rid of Romo? Hasn't the experiment gone on long enough?

 

[Terzo]

The comments are coming in faster than I can read them. I don't know why but it has me cracking up.