*** OFFICIAL MATRIX RELOADED AFTERMATH THREAD *** spoilers

[BD2003]

Yeah, I think youre definitely onto something with the asian dude being another one of the "ones".

But that leaves a few more unanswered questions. Why is he protecting the oracle? Perhaps he is not just another one of the "ones", but he is enlightened in some way to the truth. Neo ran across him when he was sitting in sort of a zen position, and he is asian of course... Could be another one of the "ones", but also could be a genuinely good and enlightened program, from the inside out.

As far as the french guy and the wife, I seriously doubt they are ones. My guess is that he is some major control program, since he is insanely powerful. I am still thinking the wife is a mortal and he has taken her as his wife, due to the mythology tie in. You dont name her persephone and not have it mean exactly what it says. He can make cake that gives girls orgasms cause he has direct control over the matrix not because he is the one, but because he is outside the control of the matrix, he is one of the creators. He could probably just makes the girl cream her pants without the cake if he wanted to. His wife is safe from the rogue programs because he wont allow his own wife to be touched, so they are her guardians and she shoots them if she pleases. They couldnt touch her if they wanted to, they would be deleted immediately. What was his name? I didnt catch it.

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: Marauder-
How can there be all the "the ones" still hanging around, I thought they had to sacrifice themselves to save the world? Or do you think they're a reincarnation?

Well I thought that the second movie had many characters who were very fatalistic. Even if you were "the one", and where led to believe that it was futile to try and escape the matrix, what else could you do but hang around?

dfi

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: berger034

How do you explain the keymaker.

The keymaker is a program with high level access that the french guy guards. I'm not sure there's much else to say about him.

dfi

 

[Kaervak]

Got back from seeing it a little over an hour ago. GREAT movie. Didn't fully understand everything while I was watching it, but after reading the posts in this thread and thinking about it, a lot now makes sense. Definitely gonna see it a couple more times to try and fully get everything. Only complaint was the theater didn't have it loud enough.

 

[BD2003]

Ok, I'm onto something hardcore. The guys name is merovingian.

http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/merovingian-twyman.htm

A few choice quotes:

"The Frankish King Dagobert II, and the Merovingian dynasty from which he came, have been romantically mythologized in the annals of both local legend and modern mystical pseudo-history, but few have understood the true meaning and origins of their alluring mystery. The mystique that surrounds them includes attributions of saintliness, magical powers (derived from their long red hair), and even divine origin, stemming from their supposed descent from the one and only Jesus Christ."

"They created mankind as a slave race to work on their farms and in their gold mines, among other things. The Sumerian legends are very clear: man was made to "bear the yoke of the gods." Man was separate from the gods, like a domesticated animal, and there was a great cultural taboo amongst the gods against sharing any of their sacred information with humanity, even things such as writing and mathematics. These gods ruled directly over Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Indus Valley, and their rule is recorded in the histories of all three civilizations."

Very importantly:

It was just a rebellion such as this that lead to the downfall of the entire glorious Empire. At some point, it is told, some of the gods broke rank. This is again recorded in just about every culture on Earth that has a written or oral history of legends. Some of the gods, finding human females most appealing, intermarried with them (breaking, of course, a major taboo within their own culture), and creating a race of human/god hybrids. Some of these offspring are described as taking the form of giants, dragons, and sea monsters, while others are said to have born a normal human countenance, with the exception of their shimmering white skin and their extremely long life spans. This is the bloodline that brought us Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, Jesus Christ, and many others, in other words the Grail Bloodline. Legend has it that these beings taught mankind their secrets, including the above-mentioned arts of civilization, as well as a secret spiritual doctrine that only certain elect humans (their blood descendants) would be allowed to possess. They created ritualistic mystery schools and secret societies to pass this doctrine down through the generations.

Why is she helping neo, and why is neo the one with all these powers? My guess...Cause persephone is his mom, and that french dude is his dad! Why else wouldnt he have just killed him on the spot?

Read from the link, and all will make sense...

 

[slydecix]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Yeah, I think youre definitely onto something with the asian dude being another one of the "ones".

But that leaves a few more unanswered questions. Why is he protecting the oracle? Perhaps he is not just another one of the "ones", but he is enlightened in some way to the truth. Neo ran across him when he was sitting in sort of a zen position, and he is asian of course... Could be another one of the "ones", but also could be a genuinely good and enlightened program, from the inside out.

As far as the french guy and the wife, I seriously doubt they are ones. My guess is that he is some major control program, since he is insanely powerful. I am still thinking the wife is a mortal and he has taken her as his wife, due to the mythology tie in. You dont name her persephone and not have it mean exactly what it says. He can make cake that gives girls orgasms cause he has direct control over the matrix not because he is the one, but because he is outside the control of the matrix, he is one of the creators. He could probably just makes the girl cream her pants without the cake if he wanted to. His wife is safe from the rogue programs because he wont allow his own wife to be touched, so they are her guardians and she shoots them if she pleases. They couldnt touch her if they wanted to, they would be deleted immediately. What was his name? I didnt catch it.

Maybe the French dude is one of the "ones" an his wife is his equivalent of trinity (only he didn't choose to save her like neo did with trinity)

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: dfi
Ok, so this is what my friend and I got from that movie.

1) Neo is still in the matrix. In fact, he never left the matrix.

2) The "real" world, containing Morpheus and Zion, is merely another layer of the matrix. It is a method of controlling all "the ones" that would come to be, the 1% of anomalies that is bound to occur. This can be seen from the architect's talk with Neo about the 5 previous "the ones", and also the way the architect says he has become efficient at destroying Zion and the human race. The oracle is merely part of that system. She is does what she is suppose to do, which is give purpose to "the one" and lead him to the architect. That is how the oracle knows that Neo is having dreams in the "real" world, even though she is just a program in the system.

Of course the architect is hoping that all "the ones" always pick the choice of saving all of humanity, and thus somehow dooming Zion/show "the ones" that it's futile. However, as the architect and Neo both said, the problem is "choice". While, according to the architect, the 5 previous ones had a generalized feeling towards humanity (wanting to save humanity as a whole), Neo was different because he had a specific person that he was in love with (Trinity), and therefore (as the architect put it), triggering the chemical effects of love that overpowers logic. The architect is able to see many variations and possibilities and has seen that Neo is the small probability that the outer control mechanism (the "real" world) fails to bring "the one" to the "proper/expected" choice of saving humanity.

3) Agent Smith has found a way to go to the layer of the matrix that Neo is now in. Smith is the guy with the beard. He probably survived the attack because the sentinels realized that the bearded man was not human.

4) The asian guy who fought Neo is not a program, but another "the one", 1 of the 5 the architect spoke of. Which explains why the asian guy was glowing, as if enlightened. Also, this explains why he could keep up with Neo. Besides, when Neo asked the asian guy how he knew Neo was "the one", the asian guy responded that he could tell by fighting Neo.

The asian guy can't be a program; otherwise there would never be "the one" (which the architect said there has been 6, including Neo). If a program can fight on par with "the one", then it would be simple for the matrix to kill "the one" by sending multiple "asian guy" programs.

5) The french guy and his wife are possibly both also 2 of the 5 previous "the ones". The french guy is totally jaded; this can be seen in the way he criticizes Neo for following the oracle's order like a simple drone. And I don't think he is a program unless programs like getting blowjobs. This also explains why the french guy can make "special" cakes, and have renegade programs as part of his gang without the sentinels coming to try and delete them. This is also why the matrix has never sent sentinels to get the keymaker: because the keymaker is protected by "the ones". The reason I think the french guy's wife is also "the one" is because she said that she came "together at the beginning" or something along those lines. She was also able to kill one of the renegade programs with ease, and the other renegade program feared her. And she is openly defiant of the french guy, yet the french guy does not punish her. She misses being loved, which no program has shown a propensity towards thus far.

6) The scene with Neo and the counselor at the bottom of Zion, looking at the machinery, seems to foreshadow that somehow the humans do not NEED the machines, yet still depend/want them. Which could actually said to work in reverse for the machines. Maybe the machines don't actually NEED the humans to survive, but depend/want humans. This can be seen in when the architect says that the machines are prepared to live at a low level of survival without humans for energy.

dfi

i dont think they are previously the ones because morpheus himself was freed by one of these people and if morpheus is one of the chosen to rebuild zion wouldnt that mean he existed before the current zion and he would have knowledge of that and then he would have to be the father of all the people of zion or almost directly responsible for freeing them

but it could be the case because morpheus does say that the one freed the people that created zion

but i guess that would mean it is closer to the 25th century than the 21st and i think it would be very stupid for the machines to "want" to keep destroying zion and rebuilding
it i would imagine that they would have developed capabilites of space or cold fusion and left their dependency of humans and the matrix alltogether

i think they are in the real world and i think the guy in the white suit is like an oracle that is evil trying to get neo to make neo choose the wrong choices

because in the first one morpheus when the oracle says he is not the "one"

morpheus tells he she was only telling him what he needed to here

i was thinking about the real world being another matrix and to me it just seems too predictable and would be them trying to be clever when its not but there is one way i think they could make it work

and that would be for a repeat of the first and second renaissance to happen inside the matrix

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Yeah, I think youre definitely onto something with the asian dude being another one of the "ones".

But that leaves a few more unanswered questions. Why is he protecting the oracle? Perhaps he is not just another one of the "ones", but he is enlightened in some way to the truth. Neo ran across him when he was sitting in sort of a zen position, and he is asian of course... Could be another one of the "ones", but also could be a genuinely good and enlightened program, from the inside out.

As far as the french guy and the wife, I seriously doubt they are ones. My guess is that he is some major control program, since he is insanely powerful. I am still thinking the wife is a mortal and he has taken her as his wife, due to the mythology tie in. You dont name her persephone and not have it mean exactly what it says. He can make cake that gives girls orgasms cause he has direct control over the matrix not because he is the one, but because he is outside the control of the matrix, he is one of the creators. He could probably just makes the girl cream her pants without the cake if he wanted to. His wife is safe from the rogue programs because he wont allow his own wife to be touched, so they are her guardians and she shoots them if she pleases. They couldnt touch her if they wanted to, they would be deleted immediately. What was his name? I didnt catch it.

I think we can all definitely agree that the asian guy is special in some way. The asian guy said that he guarded the most important thing. It looks like he was guarding the oracle. What does the oracle provide? I'm thinking "hope". So what is the most important thing? I'm guessing "hope".

As for the french guy (merevegian or something) and his wife being "the ones", I don't think that there is a very strong connection but it's a possibility. Also, his wife says to Neo that the french guy was "once like you".

dfi

 

[wviperw]

Wow, lots of stuff to think about.

As stated before by numerous others, the mythological and christian references abound. From what I gathered:
(also paralelled in greek myth but I'm not as confident on who goes where for that)

The Architect = God, the Creator
Neo = Jesus
French Guy = Satan
Morpheus = John the Baptist
People in the Matrix = lost souls

But then there are other variables to add to the equation. The Oracle is one. And the fact that there are 6 matrices is another.

Due to the overwhelming abundance of causality and choice discussions in the movie, I'm led to believe that maybe even the Architect is merely a program and that instead of him being "God," the Matrix is in fact God (the Matrix consisting of ALL the layers of existence).

Other comments:

-Anybody catch what the licence plate said on the car at the beginning of the movie? I tried to but missed it.

-The "rave" scene: Yea, I too thought it was a little annoying. Didn't seem like it belonged in a Matrix movie but more like in the Waterworld or something. I'm pretty sure the Wachowski brothers had a reason for it though. I'm guessing it has something to do with showing this future human race's culture. For one, the white race seems to have decreased immensely. Secondly, humans seems to have reverted back to their "tribal" ways--almost a nod to HG Wells' Time Machine. Third, there's the religious aspect of it all, with the cathedral type surroundings, and the preacher pedastal as well.

-When Morpheus got up to speak, did they lip sync him or something? To me, it didn't sound anything like Morpheus.

-The Orgasm girl/French guy scene: If the french guy is Satan, I could almost see the girl as some kind of "Eve." He describes her as being in her perfect environment, completely composed. But then she yields to temptation and eats the "fruit" which gives her pleasure and takes her out of the "perfect" environment. I know, thats pretty far off but.. Oh, and was it just me, or did the girl kind of stare at the French guy as she walked out (you see her in the background leave when the camera is on Morpheus, Neo, and Trin)? Its almost as if she stared at him like it was a setup, which would mean his arguments for causality would be null.

-Why did Personephe (or however you spell her name) demand Neo to kiss her like he meant it? And more importantly, why did Neo comply?

-the Architect scene: First of all, he said Vis 'a Vis, A'prapo, and Ergo (ergo at least twice). This scene was so incredibly cool though. I mean, I enjoy the action scenes and all, but its the mini-doses of philosophy scenes that really get me. This one and the Oracle scene were just great for the mind. I think they made the old guy purposely be as confusing as possible since the most information about the Matrix comes out in this scene. I'm sure I'll have to watch it a few more times to completely get the scene. It reminded me a ton of the Truman Show however. With all the TV screens around the room and Neo being the supposedly "created" and the old guy being the "creator" or the "movie director" like in the Truman Show.

-Notice that the Architect said 23 humans are saved for the next version of the Matrix? Just like there are 23 chromosomes coming from each parent (if I remember my biology correctly). Does that mean the other 23 "chromosomes" are coming from the machines?

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Ok, I'm onto something hardcore. The guys name is merovingian.

http://www.21stcenturyradio.com/merovingian-twyman.htm

A few choice quotes:

"The Frankish King Dagobert II, and the Merovingian dynasty from which he came, have been romantically mythologized in the annals of both local legend and modern mystical pseudo-history, but few have understood the true meaning and origins of their alluring mystery. The mystique that surrounds them includes attributions of saintliness, magical powers (derived from their long red hair), and even divine origin, stemming from their supposed descent from the one and only Jesus Christ."

"They created mankind as a slave race to work on their farms and in their gold mines, among other things. The Sumerian legends are very clear: man was made to "bear the yoke of the gods." Man was separate from the gods, like a domesticated animal, and there was a great cultural taboo amongst the gods against sharing any of their sacred information with humanity, even things such as writing and mathematics. These gods ruled directly over Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Indus Valley, and their rule is recorded in the histories of all three civilizations."

Very importantly:

It was just a rebellion such as this that lead to the downfall of the entire glorious Empire. At some point, it is told, some of the gods broke rank. This is again recorded in just about every culture on Earth that has a written or oral history of legends. Some of the gods, finding human females most appealing, intermarried with them (breaking, of course, a major taboo within their own culture), and creating a race of human/god hybrids. Some of these offspring are described as taking the form of giants, dragons, and sea monsters, while others are said to have born a normal human countenance, with the exception of their shimmering white skin and their extremely long life spans. This is the bloodline that brought us Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, Jesus Christ, and many others, in other words the Grail Bloodline. Legend has it that these beings taught mankind their secrets, including the above-mentioned arts of civilization, as well as a secret spiritual doctrine that only certain elect humans (their blood descendants) would be allowed to possess. They created ritualistic mystery schools and secret societies to pass this doctrine down through the generations.

Why is she helping neo, and why is neo the one with all these powers? My guess...Cause persephone is his mom, and that french dude is his dad! Why else wouldnt he have just killed him on the spot?

Read from the link, and all will make sense...

why would his Mom want to make out with him ?

 

[BD2003]

Some more relevant stuff:

In fact, many of these gods received the titles "The Lord of the Waters," "The Lord of the Deep," and "The Lord of the Abyss," which appear to have been passed down from father to son along with the throne of the global kingdom. They are specifically associated with the Flood of Noah, which as I have mentioned, destroyed their global kingdom and was somehow linked to their disastrous breeding experiment with the human race that lead to the Grail Bloodline, to which the Merovingians belong. For this they were consigned to the Abyss or the Underworld, which is why these gods were known as the Lords of both.

Enki was also known as the "Lord of the Earth," and it is because of this "amphibious" nature of their progenitor, reigning over both land and sea, that the Merovingians are associated with frogs. But this "Lord of the Earth" title is significant, for this is a title also given to Satan. And it has been historically acknowledged that Enki, as the "Fish-Goat Man," is prototype for the Zodiac sign of Capricorn, which is itself recognized as the prototype for the modern conception of Satan or Lucifer.

Furthermore, a well-known and pivotal episode in Enki's career was his rebellion against his brother Enlil over the succession of the global throne. Enki eventually slayed Enlil, something that is recorded in the Egyptian myth of Set murdering Osiris, and perhaps in the Biblical story of Cain murdering Abel. Cain eventually became King - in fact that's where the word comes from, and now it makes perfect sense why Enki would be called the "Quinotaur." The identity of Enki and Enlil with Cain and Abel can be further proven by the fact that Enki and Enlil were the son of Anu (in some Sumerian legends, the first god-king on Earth), whereas Cain and Abel were the sons of "Adamu - the First Man." Adamu and Anu appear to be etymologically related.

This family feud erupted into a long and overdrawn battle between the gods, who were split into two factions over the issue. These appear to be the same two factions who were at odds over the mating of gods and men to create the Grail Bloodline. Those who supported Enki, Satan or Cain were clearly the ones who were inclined to breed with mankind, perhaps in attempt to create a hybrid race that could assist them in retaining the throne for Cain. But they were overpowered. After they lost the "War in Heaven," they were cast into the Abyss, according to legend, now the realm of Satan, and the Earth was flooded so as to rid the Earth of their offspring.


In a sense, you can see the sky being destroyed and mankind being sent to the underworld as akin to noah and his ark. After all, it is unexplained how they got down there. So perhaps there is a war going on within the matrix, kind of akin to the hyperion story where there is an internal war within the AI themselves. In essence, the gods of the matrix need the people in the matrix to fully understand and realize themselves.

 

[BD2003]

[/quote]why would his Mom want to make out with him ?[/quote]

Stranger things have happened in mythology. Besides, she just wanted to be "loved", and she isnt about to just drop the bomb on neo and tell him she's his mom. So perhaps she took a kiss instead of a hug in order not to alarm him? Either way, she is not happy where she is, and is most definintely human.

 

[blackdogdeek]

did anyone catch that stuff about neo needing to choose 16 women and 7 men? was that because they were going to rebuild the human race that lived in zion after destroying the rest of them? if so, that would imply that zion was actually the real world. after all, if it was just another layer of the matrix that they were just going to destroy, wouldn't the machines just destroy everyone and pick their own people to start zion anew?

also, i was thinking that another explanation for neo controlling the sentinels, other than the explanation that the real world is another matrix level, is that perhaps he is now able to communicate with the machines while in the real world. and if he can communicate with the machines while in the real world there's no reason that machines in the matrix couldn't communicate with him while he was in the real world.

i agree that is really a stretch. what might be more probable is that the real world is in fact another level of the matrix and that neo is now being revived out of that newer level and is therefore currently in his "coma" state. that would definitely explain his control over the sentinels and his knowledge of their usage of bombs(their strategy or intent).

has any one noticed religious parallels like zion being a twisted version of hell? that superlong rave scene kind of seemed hedonistic. the architect was most likely a god analogue. the agents might be considered priest analogues, especially with all black and only white shirts/collars. i don't know if that makes the matrix heaven or earth though. the agents could just be lower angels while more powerful beings like merivigian's gang might be more powerful angels.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: MaxDepth
Since this is for people whom have seen the movie, I'd like to post this question:
"Why do the Agents obey the laws of physics, in what is essentially, a bio-electrical generated mass hallucination?"




Scratch all that.

Let's look at this from a power-to-work schema. We humans are jacked into computer hardware. We are cocooned from birth to death, being fed nutrients to keep us alive and healthy while we supply the energy from our boi-electrical impulse to feed the machines. Right? We know this from the part 2 of the Animatrix, "The Second Renaissaonce."

So our mass accepted/generated hallucination powers the whole thing, including the "world" scenario. So let's assume the power fluctuates, according to the world scenario. If we are at rest, the power output should be lower (theta waves, respiration, etc.).

So, if the machines have a greater power demand, how do they meet that need? Wouldn't the machines try to increase the level of brain activity? Why not insert into the world scenario a little bit of revolution? Make some mystery and peril and you get a higher power output. But you can't have a constant peak because general human population couldn't stand the physical demands and there would be too much chaos within the scenario to manage the population effectively.

Also, what if through genetic programming, the machines made "better" humans? Wouldn't these be the ones to create higher energy outputs, have higher staminas with lower resource demands? So the computers would insert "revolution" schemas into the world scenario that affects only these people out of the entire race. They fight against the machines and produce more energy. That's why Neo and the other scooby gang don't die; they are too valuable a resource.

And too, wouldn't Zion be a fictional Matrix creation? After all, how hard would it be to have a higher encompassing level Matrix outside of the world matrix? Kinda like granting certain humans super-user authority but not yet giving them admin status.


Blah, blah, blah...

As for power output, why didnt the machines just build nuclear plants w/half lifes of millions of years?!

 

[gwlam12]

ok, after coming home yesterday disappointed, i think this movie is actually pretty good after you think through everything and understand everything. as of now, i dont understand anything, and i think thats the only reason i didnt enjoy it. i wil have to watch it again. great ideas everyone! cant wait till it all ties together in the 3rd movie (i hope they tie together)

 

[Legendary]

I don't think Seraph, Merovingian and Persephone are previous "Ones". First of all, if Merovingian was a former "One" why didn't he fight? If he didn't want to stop Neo, why did he send former programs to go at him? I just have a hard time believing Seraph and Persephone are Ones. I thought, if what the Architect said is true, which it may not be, then only 1 One existed at any point in time in the Matrix. I think they're all programs. Seraph came out as gold because he was written in a different language than the rest of the Matrix. I think Neo was starting to get the better of Seraph in the end of their fight.

A different question - do we ever see what Neo looks like in code? If so, does he look like Seraph does?

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: MaxDepth
Since this is for people whom have seen the movie, I'd like to post this question:
"Why do the Agents obey the laws of physics, in what is essentially, a bio-electrical generated mass hallucination?"




Scratch all that.

Let's look at this from a power-to-work schema. We humans are jacked into computer hardware. We are cocooned from birth to death, being fed nutrients to keep us alive and healthy while we supply the energy from our boi-electrical impulse to feed the machines. Right? We know this from the part 2 of the Animatrix, "The Second Renaissaonce."

So our mass accepted/generated hallucination powers the whole thing, including the "world" scenario. So let's assume the power fluctuates, according to the world scenario. If we are at rest, the power output should be lower (theta waves, respiration, etc.).

So, if the machines have a greater power demand, how do they meet that need? Wouldn't the machines try to increase the level of brain activity? Why not insert into the world scenario a little bit of revolution? Make some mystery and peril and you get a higher power output. But you can't have a constant peak because general human population couldn't stand the physical demands and there would be too much chaos within the scenario to manage the population effectively.

Also, what if through genetic programming, the machines made "better" humans? Wouldn't these be the ones to create higher energy outputs, have higher staminas with lower resource demands? So the computers would insert "revolution" schemas into the world scenario that affects only these people out of the entire race. They fight against the machines and produce more energy. That's why Neo and the other scooby gang don't die; they are too valuable a resource.

And too, wouldn't Zion be a fictional Matrix creation? After all, how hard would it be to have a higher encompassing level Matrix outside of the world matrix? Kinda like granting certain humans super-user authority but not yet giving them admin status.


Blah, blah, blah...

i think because if they let agents do whatever they want the humans might not believe the fantasy anymore and try to "wake up" from their dreams thats why you dont see them just flying around chaotically the world has to be believable

how come Neo can then?

because he is not bound by the laws of the matrix

and that is why he is able to free so many minds

thats my theory anyway

Vote for Neo to star in the next Superman remake. he even got the flying pose down pat

 

[BD2003]

In greek mythology, and also in accordance with the story above, there are three brothers, zeus, hades and poseidon.

Zeus was the lord of the heavens, of olympus, hades was the lord of the underworld, and poseidon was the lord of the sea.

It seems pretty obvious to me right now that the architect = zeus/god, and merovingian = hades/satan. The architect controls and creates everything, but it seemed as if meroviginan was lord of the matrix, or the underworld. Actually reading my book more carefully, persephone is not human but the daughter of demeter and zeus. So persephone is the illegitimate child of the architect and who? So shes probably not his mom, but if not, then who is? His powers are well in line with the merovingian mythology above, being a cross between a man and a god, between AI and Human.

 

[wviperw]

did anyone catch that stuff about neo needing to choose 16 women and 7 men?

Yea, that was the 23 humans I mentioned above.

has any one noticed religious parallels like zion being a twisted version of hell? that superlong rave scene kind of seemed hedonistic

Good point. Afterall, Zion IS in the middle of the Earth--a place where humans have always imaginatively envisioned Hell being.

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

i don't know if this has already been said but what if its not a double layered matrix and what if the real world is really the real world.....its just that since neo is "the one" he has more powers than just his powers in the matrix?

 

[StuckMojo]

i say the "real" world is merely a second layer to the matrix used to control those people who reject the first level.

neo is special because he can truly and completely comprehend/believe that the matrix is a fake, thus control it. kindof like lucid dreaming. the other people (morpheus, etc.) know its not real, but can't fully convince themselves of it. like when you know your dreaming but you still can't move fast.

 

[Krutoy]

Originally posted by: dfi
Ok, so this is what my friend and I got from that movie.

1) Neo is still in the matrix. In fact, he never left the matrix.

2) The "real" world, containing Morpheus and Zion, is merely another layer of the matrix. It is a method of controlling all "the ones" that would come to be, the 1% of anomalies that is bound to occur. This can be seen from the architect's talk with Neo about the 5 previous "the ones", and also the way the architect says he has become efficient at destroying Zion and the human race. The oracle is merely part of that system. She is does what she is suppose to do, which is give purpose to "the one" and lead him to the architect. That is how the oracle knows that Neo is having dreams in the "real" world, even though she is just a program in the system.

Of course the architect is hoping that all "the ones" always pick the choice of saving all of humanity, and thus somehow dooming Zion/show "the ones" that it's futile. However, as the architect and Neo both said, the problem is "choice". While, according to the architect, the 5 previous ones had a generalized feeling towards humanity (wanting to save humanity as a whole), Neo was different because he had a specific person that he was in love with (Trinity), and therefore (as the architect put it), triggering the chemical effects of love that overpowers logic. The architect is able to see many variations and possibilities and has seen that Neo is the small probability that the outer control mechanism (the "real" world) fails to bring "the one" to the "proper/expected" choice of saving humanity.

3) Agent Smith has found a way to go to the layer of the matrix that Neo is now in. Smith is the guy with the beard. He probably survived the attack because the sentinels realized that the bearded man was not human.

4) The asian guy who fought Neo is not a program, but another "the one", 1 of the 5 the architect spoke of. Which explains why the asian guy was glowing, as if enlightened. Also, this explains why he could keep up with Neo. Besides, when Neo asked the asian guy how he knew Neo was "the one", the asian guy responded that he could tell by fighting Neo.

The asian guy can't be a program; otherwise there would never be "the one" (which the architect said there has been 6, including Neo). If a program can fight on par with "the one", then it would be simple for the matrix to kill "the one" by sending multiple "asian guy" programs.

5) The french guy and his wife are possibly both also 2 of the 5 previous "the ones". The french guy is totally jaded; this can be seen in the way he criticizes Neo for following the oracle's order like a simple drone. And I don't think he is a program unless programs like getting blowjobs. This also explains why the french guy can make "special" cakes, and have renegade programs as part of his gang without the sentinels coming to try and delete them. This is also why the matrix has never sent sentinels to get the keymaker: because the keymaker is protected by "the ones". The reason I think the french guy's wife is also "the one" is because she said that she came "together at the beginning" or something along those lines. She was also able to kill one of the renegade programs with ease, and the other renegade program feared her. And she is openly defiant of the french guy, yet the french guy does not punish her. She misses being loved, which no program has shown a propensity towards thus far.

6) The scene with Neo and the counselor at the bottom of Zion, looking at the machinery, seems to foreshadow that somehow the humans do not NEED the machines, yet still depend/want them. Which could actually said to work in reverse for the machines. Maybe the machines don't actually NEED the humans to survive, but depend/want humans. This can be seen in when the architect says that the machines are prepared to live at a low level of survival without humans for energy.

dfi

I agree with you on that one. A lot of people try to compare the Matrix to religion, I think its more like a computer program. The Architect is the program designed to write the majority of the Matrix, and so is the Oracle. Architect builds on principles of math and oracle on those of heart. Neo is meant to gather information on human anomalities. I think the whole Zion thing is anomalities that have been quarantined, and will be deleted once a new version of Matrix comes out. I think in the final few moments Neo realized that the "real world" is just another layer and hence he could feel the machines.

Originally posted by: wviperw

-Notice that the Architect said 23 humans are saved for the next version of the Matrix? Just like there are 23 chromosomes coming from each parent (if I remember my biology correctly). Does that mean the other 23 "chromosomes" are coming from the machines?

dfi

Thats right baby! 16 females and 7 males!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: JEDI

As for power output, why didnt the machines just build nuclear plants w/half lifes of millions of years?!

morpheus said they have fusion.

someone is going to pop up and say the matrix was invented by humans after they screwed up the world, because the explanation of using people as batteries violates themordynamics

 

[gwlam12]

maybe agent smith is a virus now.

anyway, for the poster above who said trinity and neo's child will save them...i dont think thats possible. zion will be gone by the time the child is old enough.

 

[gwlam12]

morpheus said zion survived for a century with machines attacking.

architect that zion has been destroyed and rebuilt a few times already.

hm....looks like morpheus doesnt know the truth