*** OFFICIAL MATRIX RELOADED AFTERMATH THREAD *** spoilers

[Marauder-]

Realization:

Neo gained his powers after he died, Mr Smith thus also gained powers after he died. Will Neo gain even more powers that he's dead/coma in the current believed real world?

 

[0roo0roo]

The thing I didn't get was the Architect said that the machines weren't dependent on humans anymore. If they aren't dependent on humans anymore, kill the whole matrix, why bother going through this process with Neo? You don't care which door he chooses because simply, it doensn't matter anymore

i think he said they'd be willing to live at a lower level with less power.

 

[gwlam12]

maybe there should be a virus that takes over the matrix and humans and computer programs must unite to defeat it

 

[Marauder-]

Oh yeah - and would the Agent Smith in the *real world* be like a biblical Judas - trying to betray Jesus (Neo)?

 

[The Dancing Peacock]

Originally posted by: Marauder-
Oh yeah - and would the Agent Smith in the *real world* be like a biblical Judas - trying to betray Jesus (Neo)?

well, Cypher in the first one did it to him once. Not 40 pieces of silver, but a steak dinner and no memory of the matrix not being "real"

I can't remember the Bible, but didn't Jesus say that the night he was crucifed he'd be betrayed 3 times? 2 down, 1 to go

 

[CrazyDe1]

Why was that chinese ninja dude all different colored?
What was the significance of the spoon scene? He says an orphan wanted me to give this to you. It can't be the same one he saw in the matrix? Was he freed and is now in Zion?
The only way the Oracle would know Neo's dreams is if the "real world" were also another matrix. She knows what people think and knows the future because she wrote some of the software and knows how it behaves and what sequences the code follows. Neo only dreams in the "real world." If she knows his dreams then she must have some sort of control over the "real world" and it must be another matrix. Now how deep this matrix goes is another question...there could be tons of layers...it could be 2 layers deep...I'm confused.

Before everything was revealed I thought that Neo wasn't the one and maybe him and Trinity's kid would be the one. The Oracle says to Neo that he isn't the one in the first matrix. Trinity also holds something back...something that you think is that the one will be the one that she loves. Well, if they both have a son, then she would love the son, and Neo would also not be the one.

 

[The Dancing Peacock]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Why was that chinese ninja dude all different colored?
What was the significance of the spoon scene? He says an orphan wanted me to give this to you. It can't be the same one he saw in the matrix? Was he freed and is now in Zion?
The only way the Oracle would know Neo's dreams is if the "real world" were also another matrix. She knows what people think and knows the future because she wrote some of the software and knows how it behaves and what sequences the code follows. Neo only dreams in the "real world." If she knows his dreams then she must have some sort of control over the "real world" and it must be another matrix. Now how deep this matrix goes is another question...there could be tons of layers...it could be 2 layers deep...I'm confused.

Before everything was revealed I thought that Neo wasn't the one and maybe him and Trinity's kid would be the one. The Oracle says to Neo that he isn't the one in the first matrix. Trinity also holds something back...something that you think is that the one will be the one that she loves. Well, if they both have a son, then she would love the son, and Neo would also not be the one.

He was different colored because he wasn't human, he was a program. Now, before you say that the Oracle wasn't a different color, you don't know that, because they never showed her in the Matrix Texture.

The part with the Architect, for me, revealed that their "real world" is another matrix layer. He also says that the Oracle was "the mother of the matrix" so of course she knows everything about it. She revealed in their talk that she is a program as well, and isn't human. That is why Neo can go save her, and why he has powers to stop the sentinels, it's just another layer. How many, I guess we wait.

The kid would have been a plausible thing if it had gone another way. I do think Trinity is pregnant, or will be in the next one, and the kid has something to do with the ending.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: The Dancing Peacock

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Why was that chinese ninja dude all different colored?
What was the significance of the spoon scene? He says an orphan wanted me to give this to you. It can't be the same one he saw in the matrix? Was he freed and is now in Zion?
The only way the Oracle would know Neo's dreams is if the "real world" were also another matrix. She knows what people think and knows the future because she wrote some of the software and knows how it behaves and what sequences the code follows. Neo only dreams in the "real world." If she knows his dreams then she must have some sort of control over the "real world" and it must be another matrix. Now how deep this matrix goes is another question...there could be tons of layers...it could be 2 layers deep...I'm confused.

Before everything was revealed I thought that Neo wasn't the one and maybe him and Trinity's kid would be the one. The Oracle says to Neo that he isn't the one in the first matrix. Trinity also holds something back...something that you think is that the one will be the one that she loves. Well, if they both have a son, then she would love the son, and Neo would also not be the one.

He was different colored because he wasn't human, he was a program. Now, before you say that the Oracle wasn't a different color, you don't know that, because they never showed her in the Matrix Texture.

The part with the Architect, for me, revealed that their "real world" is another matrix layer. He also says that the Oracle was "the mother of the matrix" so of course she knows everything about it. She revealed in their talk that she is a program as well, and isn't human. That is why Neo can go save her, and why he has powers to stop the sentinels, it's just another layer. How many, I guess we wait.

The kid would have been a plausible thing if it had gone another way. I do think Trinity is pregnant, or will be in the next one, and the kid has something to do with the ending.

Agent Smith is a program...I think he wasn't human...he was still the same green color...
It seems like the Oracle is enslaved in a Matrix too and it seems like if she knows how Neo figures out the Matrix she too can get out of her Matrix? I'm not sure....it seems like humans created a simulation matrix of some sort..a simulation that learns from itself to try to figure out a way to break out of the matrix...I'm not sure about this though

Oh yeah, what the hell was the point of the scene where they're going up the elevator on the way to see that french guy and they ask Neo what he sees and hes like the floors are each wired with explosives...did that have anything to do with anything? I was expecting the floors to explode or something but they never did...

 

[virtuamike]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: koolhand
So what's the deal with Neo being able to stop the Sentinels as if he was "in" the Matrix when he's
out in the "real" world??

the real world is a secondary program to contain the humans who got out of the 1st world.

they only thought they were free from the machine and had their real bodies, but they werent. even in their "real" world, they were still within the computer program.

NEO was the 6th one that tried to shut down the machine and save what he thoguht was his real world. but in actuality, he realized the "real" world was another computer program, thus he had power over it.

That was my thoughts too. This also makes sense because Agent Smith is a program, and since he is able to take another form and go into Zion, then Zion too must be a simulation. The "real world" seems like some sort of simulation to try to guard and figure out human nature and to completely eliminate any chance of ever being retaken over by humans. Since they can't figure out human nature, they cannot control us and there's always some element of choice.

The thing I didn't get was the Architect said that the machines weren't dependent on humans anymore. If they aren't dependent on humans anymore, kill the whole matrix, why bother going through this process with Neo? You don't care which door he chooses because simply, it doensn't matter anymore.

My other theory is that maybe the machines too are enslaved and only the oracle realizes this. She realizes that machines and humans must come together to fight a larger force. So how it would work is humans invent machines, and machines take over humans. Machines then invent their own machines, which in turn take them over. So both humans and machines are stuck in a separate matrix. Machines are stuck in the "real world" matrix without knowing it and humans are stuck in the matrix created by the machines.

My theory is that Neo learned how to harness his biological energy, so he more or less stopped the sentinals with a self-generated EMP. He went into coma because his energy is spent. And maybe he can sense them because he feels their bilogical energy (harvested from humans). Machines realize if he can do it, eventually all the other humans will learn too. Some machines wanna kill all the humans while others wanna try to save them and coexist. Then again, it's almost 4am here and I'm delirious.

 

[The Dancing Peacock]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: The Dancing Peacock

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Why was that chinese ninja dude all different colored?
What was the significance of the spoon scene? He says an orphan wanted me to give this to you. It can't be the same one he saw in the matrix? Was he freed and is now in Zion?
The only way the Oracle would know Neo's dreams is if the "real world" were also another matrix. She knows what people think and knows the future because she wrote some of the software and knows how it behaves and what sequences the code follows. Neo only dreams in the "real world." If she knows his dreams then she must have some sort of control over the "real world" and it must be another matrix. Now how deep this matrix goes is another question...there could be tons of layers...it could be 2 layers deep...I'm confused.

Before everything was revealed I thought that Neo wasn't the one and maybe him and Trinity's kid would be the one. The Oracle says to Neo that he isn't the one in the first matrix. Trinity also holds something back...something that you think is that the one will be the one that she loves. Well, if they both have a son, then she would love the son, and Neo would also not be the one.

He was different colored because he wasn't human, he was a program. Now, before you say that the Oracle wasn't a different color, you don't know that, because they never showed her in the Matrix Texture.

The part with the Architect, for me, revealed that their "real world" is another matrix layer. He also says that the Oracle was "the mother of the matrix" so of course she knows everything about it. She revealed in their talk that she is a program as well, and isn't human. That is why Neo can go save her, and why he has powers to stop the sentinels, it's just another layer. How many, I guess we wait.

The kid would have been a plausible thing if it had gone another way. I do think Trinity is pregnant, or will be in the next one, and the kid has something to do with the ending.

Agent Smith is a program...I think he wasn't human...he was still the same green color...
It seems like the Oracle is enslaved in a Matrix too and it seems like if she knows how Neo figures out the Matrix she too can get out of her Matrix? I'm not sure....it seems like humans created a simulation matrix of some sort..a simulation that learns from itself to try to figure out a way to break out of the matrix...I'm not sure about this though

Oh yeah, what the hell was the point of the scene where they're going up the elevator on the way to see that french guy and they ask Neo what he sees and hes like the floors are each wired with explosives...did that have anything to do with anything? I was expecting the floors to explode or something but they never did...

I was talking about Seraph, the asian dude you mentioned in your initial question that I quoted. Smith got some of Neo's code, which somehow allowed him to multiply and create more of himself and get in and out of the matrix.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: virtuamike

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: koolhand
So what's the deal with Neo being able to stop the Sentinels as if he was "in" the Matrix when he's
out in the "real" world??

the real world is a secondary program to contain the humans who got out of the 1st world.

they only thought they were free from the machine and had their real bodies, but they werent. even in their "real" world, they were still within the computer program.

NEO was the 6th one that tried to shut down the machine and save what he thoguht was his real world. but in actuality, he realized the "real" world was another computer program, thus he had power over it.

That was my thoughts too. This also makes sense because Agent Smith is a program, and since he is able to take another form and go into Zion, then Zion too must be a simulation. The "real world" seems like some sort of simulation to try to guard and figure out human nature and to completely eliminate any chance of ever being retaken over by humans. Since they can't figure out human nature, they cannot control us and there's always some element of choice.

The thing I didn't get was the Architect said that the machines weren't dependent on humans anymore. If they aren't dependent on humans anymore, kill the whole matrix, why bother going through this process with Neo? You don't care which door he chooses because simply, it doensn't matter anymore.

My other theory is that maybe the machines too are enslaved and only the oracle realizes this. She realizes that machines and humans must come together to fight a larger force. So how it would work is humans invent machines, and machines take over humans. Machines then invent their own machines, which in turn take them over. So both humans and machines are stuck in a separate matrix. Machines are stuck in the "real world" matrix without knowing it and humans are stuck in the matrix created by the machines.

My theory is that Neo learned how to harness his biological energy, so he more or less stopped the sentinals with a self-generated EMP. He went into coma because his energy is spent. And maybe he can sense them because he feels their bilogical energy (harvested from humans). Machines realize if he can do it, eventually all the other humans will learn too. Some machines wanna kill all the humans while others wanna try to save them and coexist. Then again, it's almost 4am here and I'm delirious.

lol u get originality points yea its 4am

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: The Dancing Peacock

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: The Dancing Peacock

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Why was that chinese ninja dude all different colored?
What was the significance of the spoon scene? He says an orphan wanted me to give this to you. It can't be the same one he saw in the matrix? Was he freed and is now in Zion?
The only way the Oracle would know Neo's dreams is if the "real world" were also another matrix. She knows what people think and knows the future because she wrote some of the software and knows how it behaves and what sequences the code follows. Neo only dreams in the "real world." If she knows his dreams then she must have some sort of control over the "real world" and it must be another matrix. Now how deep this matrix goes is another question...there could be tons of layers...it could be 2 layers deep...I'm confused.

Before everything was revealed I thought that Neo wasn't the one and maybe him and Trinity's kid would be the one. The Oracle says to Neo that he isn't the one in the first matrix. Trinity also holds something back...something that you think is that the one will be the one that she loves. Well, if they both have a son, then she would love the son, and Neo would also not be the one.

He was different colored because he wasn't human, he was a program. Now, before you say that the Oracle wasn't a different color, you don't know that, because they never showed her in the Matrix Texture.

The part with the Architect, for me, revealed that their "real world" is another matrix layer. He also says that the Oracle was "the mother of the matrix" so of course she knows everything about it. She revealed in their talk that she is a program as well, and isn't human. That is why Neo can go save her, and why he has powers to stop the sentinels, it's just another layer. How many, I guess we wait.

The kid would have been a plausible thing if it had gone another way. I do think Trinity is pregnant, or will be in the next one, and the kid has something to do with the ending.

Agent Smith is a program...I think he wasn't human...he was still the same green color...
It seems like the Oracle is enslaved in a Matrix too and it seems like if she knows how Neo figures out the Matrix she too can get out of her Matrix? I'm not sure....it seems like humans created a simulation matrix of some sort..a simulation that learns from itself to try to figure out a way to break out of the matrix...I'm not sure about this though

Oh yeah, what the hell was the point of the scene where they're going up the elevator on the way to see that french guy and they ask Neo what he sees and hes like the floors are each wired with explosives...did that have anything to do with anything? I was expecting the floors to explode or something but they never did...

I was talking about Seraph, the asian dude you mentioned in your initial question that I quoted. Smith got some of Neo's code, which somehow allowed him to multiply and create more of himself and get in and out of the matrix.

Yeah, I know you were talking about Seraph. Why was he yellow? What are people's thoughts on the significance of this?
If I'm not mistaken, you responded with he was a different color because he wasn't human, he was a program. To that I responded, well Agent Smith isn't human either...he's a program, but he's still the normal green color. The fact that Seraph was all gold and glowing probably is significant in some way...

 

[Legendary]

Personally I think that every program that is in the Matrix...keymaker, Oracle, Architect etc. are all slaves to the Matrix and are (unknowingly?) helping it achieve its goal. Notice how everything the Oracle said led to Neo going to the room where he has to make the choice all the Ones before him have. Everything the Oracle told Neo and Morpheus about the prophecy was supposed to end up, according to the Matrix, with Neo going into the Source and them having a 7th iteration of the Matrix. Neo has chosen a different path, but I truly believe that all the programs in the Matrix are unknowingly assisting the Matrix's will for survival.

 

[The Dancing Peacock]

Originally posted by: Legendary
Personally I think that every program that is in the Matrix...keymaker, Oracle, Architect etc. are all slaves to the Matrix and are (unknowingly?) helping it achieve its goal. Notice how everything the Oracle said led to Neo going to the room where he has to make the choice all the Ones before him have. Everything the Oracle told Neo and Morpheus about the prophecy was supposed to end up, according to the Matrix, with Neo going into the Source and them having a 7th iteration of the Matrix. Neo has chosen a different path, but I truly believe that all the programs in the Matrix are unknowingly assisting the Matrix's will for survival.

or knowingly, the Oracle and Neo touched on this in their conversation. He acknowledged that he had no way of knowing whom she was working for.

re: Seraph, I don't see any other significance to him being gold other than he might be a different type of program. He's more powerful than smith b/c he can do the door trick. Or just that he's "good" maybe?

 

[crisscross]

The idea of the Matrix might have been inspired by Hindu philosophy, which in essence says that what we see, experience, feel is "Maya" or artificial creation and none of it is real.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Elitebull

Originally posted by: FrogDog

Originally posted by: koolhand
So who was the kid that followed Neo around when he was in Zion?
Mouse? I thought he died?

No that wasn't Mouse. Mouse was on a crew before, the kid said he wasn't (I thought it might be Mouse too, until I heard that).

It's in the Animatrix - "Kid's Story" -the one with the kid falling off the building

Yeah I'm somewhat confused also. Maybe because Agent Smith crossed the boundary between the dream world and the real world, it caused some sort of rift in the distinction between the two. And that's why Neo stopped the Sentinels.

Some of the philosophical dialogues seemed kind of awkward... and almost too contrived

also, IMO... Matrix = Disney's Alice; Reloaded = Lewis Caroll's Alice

EDIT: Grammar

And the difference between Disney's Alice and Lewis Caroll's Alice is??? or do you mean thru the looking glass?

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Why was that chinese ninja dude all different colored?
What was the significance of the spoon scene? He says an orphan wanted me to give this to you. It can't be the same one he saw in the matrix? Was he freed and is now in Zion?
The only way the Oracle would know Neo's dreams is if the "real world" were also another matrix. She knows what people think and knows the future because she wrote some of the software and knows how it behaves and what sequences the code follows. Neo only dreams in the "real world." If she knows his dreams then she must have some sort of control over the "real world" and it must be another matrix. Now how deep this matrix goes is another question...there could be tons of layers...it could be 2 layers deep...I'm confused.

Before everything was revealed I thought that Neo wasn't the one and maybe him and Trinity's kid would be the one. The Oracle says to Neo that he isn't the one in the first matrix. Trinity also holds something back...something that you think is that the one will be the one that she loves. Well, if they both have a son, then she would love the son, and Neo would also not be the one.

differennt color?!?! huh?

 

[Panakk]

Originally posted by: neomits
yep

if not its online and you could catch it when you see it a second and third time


I know I will

Does anyone know where I can catch the Matrix Revolution Trailer online. I didn't wait to watch it during the credits.

 

[slydecix]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Elitebull

Originally posted by: FrogDog

Originally posted by: koolhand
So who was the kid that followed Neo around when he was in Zion?
Mouse? I thought he died?

No that wasn't Mouse. Mouse was on a crew before, the kid said he wasn't (I thought it might be Mouse too, until I heard that).

It's in the Animatrix - "Kid's Story" -the one with the kid falling off the building

Yeah I'm somewhat confused also. Maybe because Agent Smith crossed the boundary between the dream world and the real world, it caused some sort of rift in the distinction between the two. And that's why Neo stopped the Sentinels.

Some of the philosophical dialogues seemed kind of awkward... and almost too contrived

also, IMO... Matrix = Disney's Alice; Reloaded = Lewis Caroll's Alice

EDIT: Grammar

And the difference between Disney's Alice and Lewis Caroll's Alice is??? or do you mean thru the looking glass?

I meant in the way the ideas were presented... The book has points where the characters carry out extended conversations about philosophical questions, whereas everything is really simple in the Disney movie.

 

[glugglug]

It seemed to me the matrix was mixing several religious beliefs.

A lot of stuff came from Egyptian mythology, i.e. Osiris = god of death, Morpheus=God of dreams, the 2 phasing bodyguards kinda look sphinx-like, etc. There were some characters with the names of Greek gods also.

 

[atsang]

Has anyone seen the movie "13th floor"? That was the first movie I've seen that introduced a VR (virtual reality) within a VR. If it is true that there is more than one level of the matrix, then I don't think I like the plot in Reloaded anymore... It just seems so re-hashed from the 13th floor.

Also, you know that part when Morpheus gives the speech? Can someone PLEASE get the man a microphone? They have hovercrafts and walking robots, yet they can't even get a decent PA system? haha...

 

[AndrewNF]

I'm surprised no one's pointed this out yet, did anyone even notice? Just after the "possibly Agent Smith character" cuts his hand and is about to talk to Neo, there's a distinct "Matrix" sound, (think about the sound in the credits as the names change) which we've only heard in the Matrix world before, not the 'real world.'

I think that's a big hint early in the movie that the real world is actually a second matrix.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: neomits
oh, possibly my only gripe is that the sex/rave/party scene in Zion went on for WAAAAAY to long

You can say that again and actually when they had that scene I couldn't get out of my mind a thread I read yesterday where somebody mentioned that a critic gave it a 2/5. I thought at the time "Bullsh*t critic garbage!", but that scene was simply a useless addition to the movie.

My thoughts in the movie can be summed up perfectly with this review. I enjoyed the movie, but I do remember coming out of the first matrix in shock. I thought "WOW!". It was refreshing and thrilling, but the matrix 2 was neither. The fight scene with the oracle's guard played out like the first one in matrix with neo/morpheus. Trinity fighting the cops felt like the first movie at the beginning. Trinity with a gun in each hand flying through the air defending against an agent...first movie.

Neo with the pipe playing baseball was neat but it couldn't revive the overall monotony of that scene. It was fun for a bit but then it turned into what I could tell was a useless filler fight because the agents weren't getting hurt. He was simply playing. Mrsskoorb and I didn't talk throughout the movie but by the end we both agreed we couldn't wait for it to finish.

Also their reliant on wire fighting in this was over the top. It was possible to suspend my disbelief in the first movie but in this it just looked like a big slap fest for a lot of the fights.

And for the record folks a ducatti 996 motorcycle will smoke the pants off any police cruiser in the world. The way they made it look in the movie it had about 250 cc. That was dissapointing.

And of course the guy who developed the Matrix that was just a big babbling session. It was also one of the few parts in the movie that really progressed the plot and it was near the end.

Like I said the movie was ok, but the first was better. It was fresh with a healthy combination of action and plot. The second was half action, 10% plot, 40% filler.

I'm glad some others realized that portions of the 100 smith-fight scene were poorly done CGI. At some parts I couldn't believe they let it through. Another when the agent jumps on the car and they go to slow mo - they should have kept real speed because that part was almost ruined for me as the obviousness of the computer generated image was pounded into my skull over several seconds. The coloring and quality was bad. Star wars and Lord of the rings have not blundered like the matrix did with a couple of scenes.

the sense of urgency and excitement was gone, instead, something routine and rehearsed. Punch punch, block block, kick, dodge this, etc. Of course, all fight scenes are like this, but something was missing, I can't quite put my finger on it. Dead on, UKingdom. I can't really put my finger on it, besides what I placed it on above which is a lot, but the shock and awe of the movie wasn't there. Take by itself the movie is good, but as an inevitabe comparison to the other, this was not as good.

 

[slydecix]

Originally posted by: AndrewNF
I'm surprised no one's pointed this out yet, did anyone even notice? Just after the "possibly Agent Smith character" cuts his hand and is about to talk to Neo, there's a distinct "Matrix" sound, (think about the sound in the credits as the names change) which we've only heard in the Matrix world before, not the 'real world.'

I think that's a big hint early in the movie that the real world is actually a second matrix.

That's way too obvious I think. And in response to atsang: Yeah I was thinking thirteenth floor also- especially when Smith took over the mind of that one dude.

 

[atsang]

And in response to atsang: Yeah I was thinking thirteenth floor also- especially when Smith took over the mind of that one dude.

Yup, it's SO been done before. I just really really hope that Revolutions proves us all wrong on all levels.