Overall, i was a little disappointed. It was a lot of fights and not a lot of plot. I have low expectations for the next one.
-doug
-doug
Anyone noticed the scene when the Nebakanezer (sp?) ship went into Zion to dock, there was a pristine looking white control room w/ people dressed in clean/white and they were clear computer screens/icons dragged around like Minority Report? Then they show the rest of Zion, all dark and dirty with the gears cranking, and we never see the clean room again... smthing seems inconsistent...
And what's the meaning of the spoon that Neo was given, looked chewed up...
And what's the meaning of the spoon that Neo was given, looked chewed up...
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
- 33
- 81
anxi80
Lifer
- Jul 7, 2002
- 12,294
- 2
- 0
from the above mentioned link, i think this was very well put:
i just believe they set themselves too high of a standard, the bar was too high from the original, and instead of trying to raise the bar or at the very least reach it, the Wachowskis themselves just overdid it and it shows in their product.
The white room control room was a virtual control room. They showed shots of the control room people plugged in wearing ratty clothes.
MaxDepth
Diamond Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 8,757
- 43
- 91
Since this is for people whom have seen the movie, I'd like to post this question:
"Why do the Agents obey the laws of physics, in what is essentially, a bio-electrical generated mass hallucination?"
Scratch all that.
Let's look at this from a power-to-work schema. We humans are jacked into computer hardware. We are cocooned from birth to death, being fed nutrients to keep us alive and healthy while we supply the energy from our boi-electrical impulse to feed the machines. Right? We know this from the part 2 of the Animatrix, "The Second Renaissaonce."
So our mass accepted/generated hallucination powers the whole thing, including the "world" scenario. So let's assume the power fluctuates, according to the world scenario. If we are at rest, the power output should be lower (theta waves, respiration, etc.).
So, if the machines have a greater power demand, how do they meet that need? Wouldn't the machines try to increase the level of brain activity? Why not insert into the world scenario a little bit of revolution? Make some mystery and peril and you get a higher power output. But you can't have a constant peak because general human population couldn't stand the physical demands and there would be too much chaos within the scenario to manage the population effectively.
Also, what if through genetic programming, the machines made "better" humans? Wouldn't these be the ones to create higher energy outputs, have higher staminas with lower resource demands? So the computers would insert "revolution" schemas into the world scenario that affects only these people out of the entire race. They fight against the machines and produce more energy. That's why Neo and the other scooby gang don't die; they are too valuable a resource.
And too, wouldn't Zion be a fictional Matrix creation? After all, how hard would it be to have a higher encompassing level Matrix outside of the world matrix? Kinda like granting certain humans super-user authority but not yet giving them admin status.
Blah, blah, blah...
"Why do the Agents obey the laws of physics, in what is essentially, a bio-electrical generated mass hallucination?"
Scratch all that.
Let's look at this from a power-to-work schema. We humans are jacked into computer hardware. We are cocooned from birth to death, being fed nutrients to keep us alive and healthy while we supply the energy from our boi-electrical impulse to feed the machines. Right? We know this from the part 2 of the Animatrix, "The Second Renaissaonce."
So our mass accepted/generated hallucination powers the whole thing, including the "world" scenario. So let's assume the power fluctuates, according to the world scenario. If we are at rest, the power output should be lower (theta waves, respiration, etc.).
So, if the machines have a greater power demand, how do they meet that need? Wouldn't the machines try to increase the level of brain activity? Why not insert into the world scenario a little bit of revolution? Make some mystery and peril and you get a higher power output. But you can't have a constant peak because general human population couldn't stand the physical demands and there would be too much chaos within the scenario to manage the population effectively.
Also, what if through genetic programming, the machines made "better" humans? Wouldn't these be the ones to create higher energy outputs, have higher staminas with lower resource demands? So the computers would insert "revolution" schemas into the world scenario that affects only these people out of the entire race. They fight against the machines and produce more energy. That's why Neo and the other scooby gang don't die; they are too valuable a resource.
And too, wouldn't Zion be a fictional Matrix creation? After all, how hard would it be to have a higher encompassing level Matrix outside of the world matrix? Kinda like granting certain humans super-user authority but not yet giving them admin status.
Blah, blah, blah...
i think because if they let agents do whatever they want the humans might not believe the fantasy anymore and try to "wake up" from their dreams thats why you dont see them just flying around chaotically the world has to be believable
because he is not bound by the laws of the matrix
and that is why he is able to free so many minds
thats my theory anyway
Relating his coma to the first film, recall how he went into arrest right before they extracted him from the Matrix? Also recall that Morhpues said about the first person that free them, he was able to control the Matrix as he saw fit, yet no one explaiend to him that it was teh Matrix. Putting the two together, perhaps Neo is like that guy, the first one to awake from the "real" world...again. Perhaps that's why he went into a coma.
Ok, this movie is so deep it just bogles my mind.
Look at this link a friend sent to me. The French's guy's name was Merovingian, right?
The Merovingian Mythos :Q
Look at this link a friend sent to me. The French's guy's name was Merovingian, right?
The Merovingian Mythos :Q
It was good...but it wasn't nearly as good as the first one. Like many I remember walking out of the first one thinking "WOW! that was so cool!" and my friends walking out in shock. This time it wasn't anything like that...just kinda dissapointing compared to the first one. The "burly brawl" went too long...the rave scene was a little drawn out, and some of the cgi was a little too obvious. The virtual orgasm was kinda useless, and the comments on vampires, werewolves, ghosts and etc. gave me high hopes. Unfortunately we were all let down. Hopefully revolutions will be better...I just don't have very high expectations for it.
Maybe this has been said...but perhaps the long rave scene was thrown in because all the kinetic and thermal energy created by those bodies was used for some diabolical purpose by the machine on the outside of the second matrix? Maybe going to "church" by those humans (was that what the rave was supposed to represent?) was suggested by the machines because it was a way to maximize their recharge.
Anyway, great movie, a little slow in spots, but overall worth my money. I give it just barely 4 stars of 5.
Anyway, great movie, a little slow in spots, but overall worth my money. I give it just barely 4 stars of 5.
Theres definintely a LOT of references to mythology spewed in it.
One of the most obvious is persephone, who in greek mythology is the wife of hades, the lord of the underworld. Although she wasnt so by choice, hades stole her away from her mom, demeter, the god of the harvest. Supposedly why we have seasons cause shes sad in the winter cause her daughter leaves the underworld and comes back to her in the spring. It definitely has some bearing, as persephone never really liked hades, and you can tell theres some definite tension bewteen the two there. I'm guessing she's actually human and the french dude decided that he would take her as his wife regardless.
So if he's hades, then perhaps the architect is zeus? Certainly looked like the traditional zeus, old guy with white beard. Does that make the oracle hera, the always jealous wife? Sounds like a bit of a stretch, but the architect said that if he was the father, then she is the mother.
Also, morpheus is the name of the son of the god of sleep, supposedly able to change into any form. In one myth was following the orders of hera dealing with two lovers. The man had died while away from the wife, and morpheus visited her in a dream and told her that he was dead. So she went to the sea, found his body floating, and both were suddenly changed into birds. Got no idea if thats relevant in any way at all.
Youve also got niobe, married to one of the sons of zeus. She got a little too arrogant and ended up bringing down some destruction on her people because she wanted to be worshipped with gods.
Theres osiris, the egyptian god of the dead. Seraph pretty much means angel, and if he was the protector of the oracle, shes definitely a god.
Theres a lot more to it, and I'm sure it will make much more sense in the movie.
But it is definitely starting to seem like there may be two matrixes. The machines seem unable to fully control the humans because of free will.
The whole thing kind of reminds me of a book called hyperion and its sequel. There were three groups in the book, the humans who lived in the hegemony, the ousters, humans who didnt want to be a part of the hegemony and left the known worldweb to live somewhere else. Then you had the technocore, the AI, who controlled everything.
In the book, the technocore was split among those who wanted to keep humans around, those who wanted to destroy them, and those who wanted to keep them around for the time being to see what use they would be. Because the core was trying to find their god, their ultimate intelligence. Anyways, later, through the dreams of a half AI/half human "cybrid", it becomes clear that the technocore doesnt reside millions of miles away, it resides within the network of farcasters that the humans use to transport themselves around the galaxy infinitely, and the core was actually using the neurons in their brains as their network. The point is, in the book, humans totally relied on the core, and apparently, the core totally relied on humans. The core could be never possible about the outcome because of one unknown variable, a planet named hyperion, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Probably wont make much sense unless you read the book, but I think its becoming pretty obvious that the machines in the matrix dont want to kill humans for reasons other than their need for electric power. As you can see from agent smith in the first matrix, they are trying to use humans to figure out their own nature, since humans we're the ones that created them.
One of the most obvious is persephone, who in greek mythology is the wife of hades, the lord of the underworld. Although she wasnt so by choice, hades stole her away from her mom, demeter, the god of the harvest. Supposedly why we have seasons cause shes sad in the winter cause her daughter leaves the underworld and comes back to her in the spring. It definitely has some bearing, as persephone never really liked hades, and you can tell theres some definite tension bewteen the two there. I'm guessing she's actually human and the french dude decided that he would take her as his wife regardless.
So if he's hades, then perhaps the architect is zeus? Certainly looked like the traditional zeus, old guy with white beard. Does that make the oracle hera, the always jealous wife? Sounds like a bit of a stretch, but the architect said that if he was the father, then she is the mother.
Also, morpheus is the name of the son of the god of sleep, supposedly able to change into any form. In one myth was following the orders of hera dealing with two lovers. The man had died while away from the wife, and morpheus visited her in a dream and told her that he was dead. So she went to the sea, found his body floating, and both were suddenly changed into birds. Got no idea if thats relevant in any way at all.
Youve also got niobe, married to one of the sons of zeus. She got a little too arrogant and ended up bringing down some destruction on her people because she wanted to be worshipped with gods.
Theres osiris, the egyptian god of the dead. Seraph pretty much means angel, and if he was the protector of the oracle, shes definitely a god.
Theres a lot more to it, and I'm sure it will make much more sense in the movie.
But it is definitely starting to seem like there may be two matrixes. The machines seem unable to fully control the humans because of free will.
The whole thing kind of reminds me of a book called hyperion and its sequel. There were three groups in the book, the humans who lived in the hegemony, the ousters, humans who didnt want to be a part of the hegemony and left the known worldweb to live somewhere else. Then you had the technocore, the AI, who controlled everything.
In the book, the technocore was split among those who wanted to keep humans around, those who wanted to destroy them, and those who wanted to keep them around for the time being to see what use they would be. Because the core was trying to find their god, their ultimate intelligence. Anyways, later, through the dreams of a half AI/half human "cybrid", it becomes clear that the technocore doesnt reside millions of miles away, it resides within the network of farcasters that the humans use to transport themselves around the galaxy infinitely, and the core was actually using the neurons in their brains as their network. The point is, in the book, humans totally relied on the core, and apparently, the core totally relied on humans. The core could be never possible about the outcome because of one unknown variable, a planet named hyperion, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Probably wont make much sense unless you read the book, but I think its becoming pretty obvious that the machines in the matrix dont want to kill humans for reasons other than their need for electric power. As you can see from agent smith in the first matrix, they are trying to use humans to figure out their own nature, since humans we're the ones that created them.
A little side note to all you ravers and technophiles out there...didn't you want to break out the glowsticks like the whole movie??
Ok, so this is what my friend and I got from that movie.
1) Neo is still in the matrix. In fact, he never left the matrix.
2) The "real" world, containing Morpheus and Zion, is merely another layer of the matrix. It is a method of controlling all "the ones" that would come to be, the 1% of anomalies that is bound to occur. This can be seen from the architect's talk with Neo about the 5 previous "the ones", and also the way the architect says he has become efficient at destroying Zion and the human race. The oracle is merely part of that system. She is does what she is suppose to do, which is give purpose to "the one" and lead him to the architect. That is how the oracle knows that Neo is having dreams in the "real" world, even though she is just a program in the system.
Of course the architect is hoping that all "the ones" always pick the choice of saving all of humanity, and thus somehow dooming Zion/show "the ones" that it's futile. However, as the architect and Neo both said, the problem is "choice". While, according to the architect, the 5 previous ones had a generalized feeling towards humanity (wanting to save humanity as a whole), Neo was different because he had a specific person that he was in love with (Trinity), and therefore (as the architect put it), triggering the chemical effects of love that overpowers logic. The architect is able to see many variations and possibilities and has seen that Neo is the small probability that the outer control mechanism (the "real" world) fails to bring "the one" to the "proper/expected" choice of saving humanity.
3) Agent Smith has found a way to go to the layer of the matrix that Neo is now in. Smith is the guy with the beard. He probably survived the attack because the sentinels realized that the bearded man was not human.
4) The asian guy who fought Neo is not a program, but another "the one", 1 of the 5 the architect spoke of. Which explains why the asian guy was glowing, as if enlightened. Also, this explains why he could keep up with Neo. Besides, when Neo asked the asian guy how he knew Neo was "the one", the asian guy responded that he could tell by fighting Neo.
The asian guy can't be a program; otherwise there would never be "the one" (which the architect said there has been 6, including Neo). If a program can fight on par with "the one", then it would be simple for the matrix to kill "the one" by sending multiple "asian guy" programs.
5) The french guy and his wife are possibly both also 2 of the 5 previous "the ones". The french guy is totally jaded; this can be seen in the way he criticizes Neo for following the oracle's order like a simple drone. And I don't think he is a program unless programs like getting blowjobs. This also explains why the french guy can make "special" cakes, and have renegade programs as part of his gang without the sentinels coming to try and delete them. This is also why the matrix has never sent sentinels to get the keymaker: because the keymaker is protected by "the ones". The reason I think the french guy's wife is also "the one" is because she said that she came "together at the beginning" or something along those lines. She was also able to kill one of the renegade programs with ease, and the other renegade program feared her. And she is openly defiant of the french guy, yet the french guy does not punish her. She misses being loved, which no program has shown a propensity towards thus far.
6) The scene with Neo and the counselor at the bottom of Zion, looking at the machinery, seems to foreshadow that somehow the humans do not NEED the machines, yet still depend/want them. Which could actually said to work in reverse for the machines. Maybe the machines don't actually NEED the humans to survive, but depend/want humans. This can be seen in when the architect says that the machines are prepared to live at a low level of survival without humans for energy.
dfi
1) Neo is still in the matrix. In fact, he never left the matrix.
2) The "real" world, containing Morpheus and Zion, is merely another layer of the matrix. It is a method of controlling all "the ones" that would come to be, the 1% of anomalies that is bound to occur. This can be seen from the architect's talk with Neo about the 5 previous "the ones", and also the way the architect says he has become efficient at destroying Zion and the human race. The oracle is merely part of that system. She is does what she is suppose to do, which is give purpose to "the one" and lead him to the architect. That is how the oracle knows that Neo is having dreams in the "real" world, even though she is just a program in the system.
Of course the architect is hoping that all "the ones" always pick the choice of saving all of humanity, and thus somehow dooming Zion/show "the ones" that it's futile. However, as the architect and Neo both said, the problem is "choice". While, according to the architect, the 5 previous ones had a generalized feeling towards humanity (wanting to save humanity as a whole), Neo was different because he had a specific person that he was in love with (Trinity), and therefore (as the architect put it), triggering the chemical effects of love that overpowers logic. The architect is able to see many variations and possibilities and has seen that Neo is the small probability that the outer control mechanism (the "real" world) fails to bring "the one" to the "proper/expected" choice of saving humanity.
3) Agent Smith has found a way to go to the layer of the matrix that Neo is now in. Smith is the guy with the beard. He probably survived the attack because the sentinels realized that the bearded man was not human.
4) The asian guy who fought Neo is not a program, but another "the one", 1 of the 5 the architect spoke of. Which explains why the asian guy was glowing, as if enlightened. Also, this explains why he could keep up with Neo. Besides, when Neo asked the asian guy how he knew Neo was "the one", the asian guy responded that he could tell by fighting Neo.
The asian guy can't be a program; otherwise there would never be "the one" (which the architect said there has been 6, including Neo). If a program can fight on par with "the one", then it would be simple for the matrix to kill "the one" by sending multiple "asian guy" programs.
5) The french guy and his wife are possibly both also 2 of the 5 previous "the ones". The french guy is totally jaded; this can be seen in the way he criticizes Neo for following the oracle's order like a simple drone. And I don't think he is a program unless programs like getting blowjobs. This also explains why the french guy can make "special" cakes, and have renegade programs as part of his gang without the sentinels coming to try and delete them. This is also why the matrix has never sent sentinels to get the keymaker: because the keymaker is protected by "the ones". The reason I think the french guy's wife is also "the one" is because she said that she came "together at the beginning" or something along those lines. She was also able to kill one of the renegade programs with ease, and the other renegade program feared her. And she is openly defiant of the french guy, yet the french guy does not punish her. She misses being loved, which no program has shown a propensity towards thus far.
6) The scene with Neo and the counselor at the bottom of Zion, looking at the machinery, seems to foreshadow that somehow the humans do not NEED the machines, yet still depend/want them. Which could actually said to work in reverse for the machines. Maybe the machines don't actually NEED the humans to survive, but depend/want humans. This can be seen in when the architect says that the machines are prepared to live at a low level of survival without humans for energy.
dfi
I thought it was thrown in b/c of the Soddom and Gamora thing- and that's why Neo has the choice at the end of self sacrifice to wipe away all human sin.
How can there be all the "the ones" still hanging around, I thought they had to sacrifice themselves to save the world? Or do you think they're a reincarnation?
The Matrix Reloaded..... and Reviewed
The day my friends is upon us. The day that this author has been anticipating for a long time to come, the opening of Matrix Reloaded. I am very pleased to announce to you all that I have screened this film as of last night and have mixed reviews, or better yet, a mixed review of a particular scene.
The movie was great as a whole but a certain part was very unnecessary for the veiwing audience. I will not give anything away, but as many of the female members of this list have voiced that Keuanu Reeves is a straping young man, (my mother has informed me that I am a straping young man on several occasions so I do not know what all the rucuss is about) you will take great pleasure in this movie.
Great fight scenes laced with many visual effects will keep the male viewers shocked and awed like a certain city in a in a country with vast oil supplies and as many weopons of mass destruction or so a government, that I will not name, insist that they have. There is a 14 minute car chase that will leave you wanting more and if that is not enough, Keanau Reeves does a great job acting. I believe as Gary has stated that acting was not a large requirement in this film so that is why the producers of this movie have graced the screen with this below par actor. But he does kick ass and as some have stated that anything kick ass is worth a look see.
This concludes my evaluation of The Matrix Reloaded. If you wish to see a lot of great special effects, gun battles, dazzling fights scenes and a lot of hot people in leather come over to my house on Friday nights, but if you want to see a movie with all this, The Matrix is the way to go my friends.
Reviewed by,
Paul "The Blind Wombat of Death" Tran
The views of Paul Tran do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or members of this list. THE MATRIX RELOADED (Copyright 2003) is presented by and is the property of Warner Bros. THE MATRIX RELOADED (Copyright 2003) is a film written and directed by Andy Wachowski and Larry Wachowski. Running time: 138 minutes. Rated R (for sci-fi violence and some sexuality. Dude, Keaunu's ass crack is in this movie).
The day my friends is upon us. The day that this author has been anticipating for a long time to come, the opening of Matrix Reloaded. I am very pleased to announce to you all that I have screened this film as of last night and have mixed reviews, or better yet, a mixed review of a particular scene.
The movie was great as a whole but a certain part was very unnecessary for the veiwing audience. I will not give anything away, but as many of the female members of this list have voiced that Keuanu Reeves is a straping young man, (my mother has informed me that I am a straping young man on several occasions so I do not know what all the rucuss is about) you will take great pleasure in this movie.
Great fight scenes laced with many visual effects will keep the male viewers shocked and awed like a certain city in a in a country with vast oil supplies and as many weopons of mass destruction or so a government, that I will not name, insist that they have. There is a 14 minute car chase that will leave you wanting more and if that is not enough, Keanau Reeves does a great job acting. I believe as Gary has stated that acting was not a large requirement in this film so that is why the producers of this movie have graced the screen with this below par actor. But he does kick ass and as some have stated that anything kick ass is worth a look see.
This concludes my evaluation of The Matrix Reloaded. If you wish to see a lot of great special effects, gun battles, dazzling fights scenes and a lot of hot people in leather come over to my house on Friday nights, but if you want to see a movie with all this, The Matrix is the way to go my friends.
Reviewed by,
Paul "The Blind Wombat of Death" Tran
The views of Paul Tran do not necessarily reflect the views of the moderators or members of this list. THE MATRIX RELOADED (Copyright 2003) is presented by and is the property of Warner Bros. THE MATRIX RELOADED (Copyright 2003) is a film written and directed by Andy Wachowski and Larry Wachowski. Running time: 138 minutes. Rated R (for sci-fi violence and some sexuality. Dude, Keaunu's ass crack is in this movie).
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