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*** OFFICIAL MATRIX RELOADED AFTERMATH THREAD *** spoilers

Page 22 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

TheShiz

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,846
0
0
Originally posted by: Hooobi
Originally posted by: TheShiz
Originally posted by: Hooobi
Originally posted by: TheShiz
Originally posted by: Hooobi
This movie was simply aweful. If I wasn't there with friends, I would have just gotten up and left. It is quite rare that I feel so strongly about a film. This one has to be one of the top three worst I've seen.

Save you're money... it's not even worth renting on DVD.

H

oh, so I guess these are much better films:

The Mummy
What Women Want
Pokemon
Charlie's Angels
Stepmom
8MM
Deep Impact

(dvds on his list)


Wow... did I really have all those? I haven't updated that list in forever. My collection is always in a state of flux, the only three of those left are What Women Want (haven't watched it yet), and 8mm and Deep Impact, neither of which were that great.

To be honest, I would probably rather watch Pokemon than revisit the Matrix: Reloaded. Which is too bad as I enjoyed the first Matrix, and had high hopes for the sequel.

I've seen video games with a better plot, far better (and less mindless) dialogue, and less hokey animation. I don't really want to get into a debate around it as people's taste in movies is so subjective. I was simply hoping that my comment might save some poor sap from wasting $6 on this turd.


well i was just hoping to demonstrate that your opinion is a turd.


Well... I guess we shouldn't expect much more than such a simplistic demonstration from an obviously simple individual.

...

yes, I must be a "simple individual" because I responded with a review of your opinion that was pretty much the same as your review of the movie. I guess that also makes you a "simple individual." I bow before the, oh complex one!

and oh yeah, i like how you feel the need to go digging up bad reviews to defend your position, what's the point, I could probably dig up bad reviews for The Godfather, think for yourself oh complex individual.

back on topic, anyone have the oracle talk with neo they can post?
 

theNEOone

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
5,745
4
81
hoobi - u said that you liked the original, but thought that reloaded was awful. try watching it again. here's a post i made in another thread:


i must say that when i left matrix reloaded, i felt a little "empty". i couldn't describe it, but i just didn't get the same sensation that i did after watching the original. and i agreed w/ all the criticism - music sucked, fight scenes were forced, rave scene was uneccessary.......etc.

so i decided to go watch it again today, but only to see if i could pick up on more details and possibily figure things out a little better. i entered the theater not expecting anything other than gaining a better understanding of the movie. then, with my mind clear and void of expectiations i felt the magic again. i was sitting in the theater, as floored by reloaded as i had been when i watched the original matrix. this second time, i enjoyed every single aspect of the movie. the fight scenes flowed as beautifully as they did in the first movie, the music got my heart racing, and yes....i even enjoyed the rave scene.


if you're a matrix fan and felt a little dissappointed by reloaded, do yourself a favor and watch it again - but go into the theater with a clear head and no bloated expectiations. you'll feel it again, i promise.

 

C'DaleRider

Guest
Jan 13, 2000
3,048
0
0
The more I muse over the movie since I've seen it, the more it seems like an expanded takeoff on Tron. I fully expect to see at the end of the third movie a kid hitting his PS2 repeatedly because it keeps "stalling" at one point in a game (when Neo chooses to reset the "Matrix", or zooming out from the "Matrix", out and out until you see a guy keep getting a BSOD on his computer........as each Neo resets the "Matrix".
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: FrogDog
Originally posted by: TheShiz
this is what I want to know. Why do the machines require humans outside of the matrix? The AI guy with all the TV screens seemed to be saying this, why can't they function perfectly well with just humans in the matrix?
From what I could grasp from that scene was that Zion is just another control mechanism used to keep the human race in check. I can't substantiate it further though.

Weren't you guys listening to The Architect? :p

There were 6 prior Matrixes, the first one was perfect, but the perfection lead to it's own collapse because people required a level of imperfection. The Architect built a new matrix based on human's past civilization, giving them their typical problems to deal with, but it always seem to lead to an escape and uprising. The Oracle in conjunction with The Architect embedded a speical code that propogated throughout the complex matrix algorithm, which manifested itself into The One. The One held the code that was suppose to rebalance the Matrix as Zion was destroyed, and then he would be given a total of 12 people outside of the Matrix to repopulate Zion. Zion was merely an allowed check against the machines to stabilize the Matrix that had to be periodically reset when it grew too large.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: MachFive
Originally posted by: FrogDog
Originally posted by: koolhand
So what's the deal with Neo being able to stop the Sentinels as if he was "in" the Matrix when he's
out in the "real" world??
Yeah that's one thing that wasn't explained...I figure either the 'real world' is also some kind of virtual reality or Neo's not just the 6th 'One'...

He only THOUGHT he was stopping the sentinels. The ship that picked them up did an EMP.

Silly, at that point no ship picked him up. ;)
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I found it, compared to the first, quite underwhelming. It was a connect the dot of fights with a weak plot at best. Plus the fighting just frankly got boring. It was a big wire string mess and the CGI for the fight with the bar at one point I was sure I was looking at a real time render of what they must use on the console version of the matrix game.

Not to sound too harsh because the movie was ok, just a dissapointment for me and I think that a lot of people are going to find it was less to them than the first. Certainly in no hurry to see it again.

I agree. I came into this thread about to post that "the movie didn't flow." There were good scenes, and to me it wasn't confusing at all. But it didn't hold up to the level of anticipation and flow like the first Matrix. Just like the scene when they get back to Zion - apparently Neo has been there before, we're missing about 6 months of history, with that kid Neo saved, etc. Watching it I felt like I missed Matrix 1.5. I have the feeling there was a lot more to that movie that was left out. Almost like watching "Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever" - an almost pointless plot with lots of gratutitous fight scenes.

And then the ending totally sucked. I mean it was fine the way they left it, but they just throw up "To be Concluded" in a single screen shot. Two unconcious adversaries wasn't the greatest cliffhanger...

And the music SUCKED too. The Matrix 1 soundtrack was awesome, the way it fit all the different scenes. But Matrix 2 didn't even come close, and a lot of the fight scenes they threw in some cheap music they made up. And then there is the slow frames - which in every scene of Matrix 1 was awesome, but in Matrix 2 they kept throwing them in there at random it seems as filler...
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: Angrymarshmello
Architect: The Matrix is older then you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.

...

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, Vis a vie love.

So is he saying Neo is the Matrix? He mentions "your 5 predecessors"...without specific mention of 5 other "the ones". He even said a couple of the first matrices (even in the first movie Smith mentioned it) failed on their own. If it failed on their own it wouldn't matter what "the ones" did

You just quoted your answer. He is the sixth anomoly.
 

EngenZerO

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2001
5,099
2
0
Originally posted by: Elitebull
...After watching it a second time, here's what I've come up with (I know some of this is repeat, but I'm trying to tie everything together): ...cut for content

- Neo is not human. Gr1mL0cK (i think) suggested that Neo might be a program, and the whole "he's fighting for us" thing in the Revolutions trailer could be a hint at that. It makes sense that Neo is indeed not a human being- The agents in the beginning say that "he is still only human" and Merovingian says something similar. Like everyone else, I didn't see much significance in that the first time I watched it, but now it seems like those words were put there to reaffirm the what we knew to be obvious... this adds to all the irony.

cut for content... EDIT: spelling

If you watch the Revolutions trailer again closley. You see that Morpheus, Trinity and Seraph are fighting togeter. Morpheus saying "he's fighting for us," could be aluding to Seraph (oracle body guard) which is some sort of program fighting for the humans. Remember how Seraph glowed with gold code when Neo first saw him. I do think that Neo is a human but an anomoly with machine charcteristics (either via Agent Smith or a random anomoly that attaches its self to one particular human).

engen

 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: BaboonGuy

-when neo stopped the sentinels it was because he realized all the truths of the world, that the prophecy was all a lie etc. because of this he truly "freed his mind." human beings only use like 3% of our brains our something like that, if we could use all of it, like neo can do now, whats stopping us from doing stuff like even flying...also i'm not quite sure why he's in a coma, maybe because it was just such a rush to have freed his mind and experienced just how much he really can do that it overwhelmed him and put him in a coma
Reality.

It's human arrogance that somehow untapping the processing potential of our brains would let us defy the laws of physics. Our brains are a mesh of nervous tissue. There's no secret component in there that wil let us shoot laser beams out of our eyes or defy gravity. However, I believe that some of that potential gives us the opportunity for telepathy and esp/pyschic phenomenon. Telepathy is simply an encoding of thoughts onto a transceivable medium - such as an electromagnetic pulse generated by our nervous system that can be decoded by another person. Or being able to foresee the future, because the Universe is one huge algorithm being played out, and with enough processing power you'd be able to decipher future events - cause and effect.

When Neo craches the sentinels, there are 2 possibilities: 1. They are inside another layer of the Matrix or 2. When Neo jumped into Smith to destory him, and Smith explains he was "set free" and now has a part of Neo in him, the vice versa could also be true, Neo may have absorbed some of the code of Smith into his brain, so in the real world he now has a natural defensive mechanism that the sentinels are able to understand... the Smith replicant that took over the real guy, also seemed to be in a coma, so when Neo exerted his ability to stop the sentinels, it might have caused a short via a telepathic link they had together, remember Neo says "wait... I can feel them".
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
I think along more simpler lines:

When Neo killed Agent Smith in the original movie, some of the Matrix code was absorbed by Neo. Neo only began to understand this at the end of Reloaded when he put his hand into Trinity. He knew how the Matrix worked and made himself become part of it and modified it to retrieve the bullet and later to pump her heart.

Then, at the end when the sentinels are coming, Neo could 'feel them' as part of the Matrix code is in him and knew the sentinels were coming and was able to stop them.

Now, how can machine code be in the 'real' Neo? Is Neo not really human but just another program? If so, what did we see in the first movie when his body was disconnected from the Matrix and picked up by Morpheus' ship?

Questions yet to be answered and I hope they are answered in the last movie.
 

MaxDepth

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2001
8,757
43
91
I will make these bets/predictions (in October, let's see how close/far I was):

Zion is not real - Zion is a part of the matrix. If a human mind cannot accept the consensual reality that was the primary matrix, then the mind will not participate further (either madness or coma?) and will be a waste of flesh for the machines (e.g. no to low power output). To combat this, the machines built another layer. One of escape (or error trap for those machines here). To those who reject, the machines built a false explanation. The human mind accepts the reason and goes on. However, there is a break point to this acceptance. A quarter or a million people now reject the false matrix and believe in this high matrix (matrices?). Morpheus says in his pre-rave speech that he rembembers 100 years ago when this began. 100 years (+ his age) old? Hmm, he might be speaking metaphorically, but...

Who is "human" and who is not - The councilman (played by Anthony Zerbe) is not. Morpheus is not. The inhabitants of Zion and the first matrix - I'm thinking 50/50 here. Reason: The machines need to understand their creators, humans. There is a symbios at work but I think the human side is waning (dying off). The machines are willing to live underpowered but they want to be "alive" and exist like the humans do/did. (Some of this comes from "The Second Renaissance" Animatrix episodes on the web.) Thats why the councilman preaches caution and co-existence to Neo and to show him the underbelly of Zion (machines behind the curtain so to speak). Morpheus is a program to move along the plot. Of course, if he is real, then the Zion matrix has programmed him to be a zealot.

Programs, programs, programs - the architect wants there to be a believable matrix and zero defects. the french guy, oracle and keymaker are minor programs within the larger system. At one point they may have been system administrator programs (regulators) whom have jumped into the matrix as sentient entities. That's why they survive reloads because they can enter the hallway of doors (e.g. slip back into the mainframe/main program). However, because they are minor programs they cannot see beyond their program. They can do awesome things within the matrix, but basically are stopped at that level. That is why the french guy keeps yapping about "cause and effect" because that's all he can do. He sees interaction at the most basic controlling level. Same with the oracle, make a pronouncement here and there and then follow results.

Neo and choice - in the room with architect, Neo sees himself in all those monitors - which are mathmatical representations of probability. Each one is a probability that the architect computes. At that space/time moment, Neo becomes one of the probabilities but not all the time. It's like the architect is running "IF - THEN" logic statements at a human. The architect says Neo carries within him the key to solving this program. The architect has programmed other iterations of the matrix but have all been flawed. The oracle in the last iteration began to see the glimmering of the "human equation" which the new matrices must include for the architect to succeed and in this present version the architect has built the Neo equation. Everything that has come (in this version - Morpheus getting him, Zion being built, etc.) before were pre-reqs to the Neo equation becomming active (needs a backstory that Neo can understand and believe before he makse his "choice".) If you notice, the probability Neos all made the same choice (walk to the Martix door) as did the one Neo. The architect is betting that this solution will somehow make the program work (full human/machine symbiosis). The architect can only make probabilities and understand permutations of choice but ultimately cannot create an outcome unless the humans actually participate.

The next movie - We only hear, not see, that Zion has fallen. Yet in the trailer (which is different than the one I downloaded) shows some of the "Metal Gear" type of guys fighting. If only one ship survived the whole distruction, then where does this guy and fighting fit in? I think the Agent Smith program stowed away on the ship and was able to infect them all once they emerged from the matrix. Zion may still be functioning. As to Agent Smith, he is not bound by traditional program routines. By being restructured with Neo routines added, it becomes Neo-lite. Program with higher IF/THEN statements and boundaries. That is why is was able to slip into the door hallway. Now, the program has gone rogue and must be dealt with by the Neo solution. Hmmm. Agent Smith representing task/master/authority program; Neo represents symbiotic relation/merge?


Coma with both? Naw, think reloading...
 

MainFramed

Diamond Member
May 29, 2002
5,981
1
0
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:
 

slydecix

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,898
0
0
I disagree with the whole idea that Neo's ability to stop the sentinels came from Smith for the following reason: Smith explains that he was set free from the encounter at the end of the first movie (part of Neo went to him and vice versa). This was BEFORE Smith tried to take over his body in the playground (so Morpheus, who the Smiths tried to take over later on, would not have these abilities). Therefore, if Neo's new abilities did come from his encounter with Smith at the end of Matrix 1, then shouldn't Neo already know that something is up in the so-called "real world" (Zion) well before the Sentinels attacked? In my opinion, the phrase, "something's different" points out that it is a result of something that happened near the end of the movie- perhaps his encounter with the architect and his "choice" to save Trinity.
 

m2kewl

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2001
8,263
0
0
Originally posted by: SagaLore
Weren't you guys listening to The Architect? :p

...The One held the code that was suppose to rebalance the Matrix as Zion was destroyed, and then he would be given a total of 12 people outside of the Matrix to repopulate Zion.

you missed the part - it's 23 (7 guys/16 chics) :p
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?
 

slydecix

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,898
0
0
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?


What Year??

Nov. 13 as in this year- less than 6 months

 

Kaervak

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2001
8,460
2
81
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?


What Year??

2003. Six long months. GRRR, I want Revolutions now damnit!! :D
 

MainFramed

Diamond Member
May 29, 2002
5,981
1
0
Originally posted by: Kaervak
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?


What Year??

2003. Six long months. GRRR, I want Revolutions now damnit!! :D


HOLY SH!T!!!! I thought at least another year......

:D:D:D:D :beer:

This is awesome thank you guys so much!

I kinda find it weird there doing this though...(they must have simintanously been working on 1 & 2?) I mean from our kinda point of veiw...since we dont make the movie nor get the money there making. and us having to wait only 6 months is awesome :) But for them....I thought for sure they'd try to milk us all off of Matrix:Reloaded ...then milk us on Matrix:3 ?? I just find it odd from there veiw there doing it so close, like look at Harry Potter....they wait a entire year to release each movie. The make a shiz load of money more that way then to relase movies every 6 months.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: Kaervak
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?


What Year??

2003. Six long months. GRRR, I want Revolutions now damnit!! :D


HOLY SH!T!!!! I thought at least another year......

:D:D:D:D :beer:

This is awesome thank you guys so much!

I kinda find it weird there doing this though...(they must have simintanously been working on 1 & 2?) I mean from our kinda point of veiw...since we dont make the movie nor get the money there making. and us having to wait only 6 months is awesome :) But for them....I thought for sure they'd try to milk us all of of Matrix:Reloaded ...then milk us on Matrix:3 ?? I just find it odd from there veiw there doing it so close, like look at Harry Potter....they wait a entire year to release each movie. The make a shiz load of money more that way then to relase movies every 6 months.

Dude...have you like not heard or seen or read anything about the Matrix in the last two years? Of course they were filming them together. Not sure if it was concurrently or consecutively, though.
 

MainFramed

Diamond Member
May 29, 2002
5,981
1
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: Kaervak
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?


What Year??

2003. Six long months. GRRR, I want Revolutions now damnit!! :D


HOLY SH!T!!!! I thought at least another year......

:D:D:D:D :beer:

This is awesome thank you guys so much!

I kinda find it weird there doing this though...(they must have simintanously been working on 1 & 2?) I mean from our kinda point of veiw...since we dont make the movie nor get the money there making. and us having to wait only 6 months is awesome :) But for them....I thought for sure they'd try to milk us all of of Matrix:Reloaded ...then milk us on Matrix:3 ?? I just find it odd from there veiw there doing it so close, like look at Harry Potter....they wait a entire year to release each movie. The make a shiz load of money more that way then to relase movies every 6 months.

Dude...have you like not heard or seen or read anything about the Matrix in the last two years? Of course they were filming them together. Not sure if it was concurrently or consecutively, though.

Honestly as much of a fan I am...I haven't heard much stuff about it having a 3rd movie... (Kinda Glad I didint know until i watched the movie and found out on my own from that)
 

Kaervak

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2001
8,460
2
81
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed


HOLY SH!T!!!! I thought at least another year......

:D:D:D:D :beer:

This is awesome thank you guys so much!

I kinda find it weird there doing this though...(they must have simintanously been working on 1 & 2?) I mean from our kinda point of veiw...since we dont make the movie nor get the money there making. and us having to wait only 6 months is awesome :) But for them....I thought for sure they'd try to milk us all of of Matrix:Reloaded ...then milk us on Matrix:3 ?? I just find it odd from there veiw there doing it so close, like look at Harry Potter....they wait a entire year to release each movie. The make a shiz load of money more that way then to relase movies every 6 months.

Dude...have you like not heard or seen or read anything about the Matrix in the last two years? Of course they were filming them together. Not sure if it was concurrently or consecutively, though.


Yep, they were filmed at the same time and from what I'm hearing, Reloaded & Revolution were one big movie split in the middle.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: Kaervak
Originally posted by: MainFramed
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: MainFramed
I havent really been watching this thread closely (starting to ...:D ) And I haven't caught when the 3rd one is coming out.....could someone please tell me? :confused:

Nov. 13?


What Year??

2003. Six long months. GRRR, I want Revolutions now damnit!! :D


HOLY SH!T!!!! I thought at least another year......

:D:D:D:D :beer:

This is awesome thank you guys so much!

I kinda find it weird there doing this though...(they must have simintanously been working on 1 & 2?) I mean from our kinda point of veiw...since we dont make the movie nor get the money there making. and us having to wait only 6 months is awesome :) But for them....I thought for sure they'd try to milk us all off of Matrix:Reloaded ...then milk us on Matrix:3 ?? I just find it odd from there veiw there doing it so close, like look at Harry Potter....they wait a entire year to release each movie. The make a shiz load of money more that way then to relase movies every 6 months.

You! Back under your rock!

This has been common knowledge for quite some time.

;)

Viper GTS