**OFFICIAL** Diablo 3 Thread

[lupi]

Yeah I was surprised when some said the plan was to patch the 28th since wow also had a big one hitting then, so it coming today does not surprise me. I did laugh at the part that adds an ah disclaimer that item stats could be changed later.

 

[waggy]

hope it is today. i just tried logging in and it said game up to date and it was still 1.3

i gotta take off shortly and was hopeing to update it while i was in town.

 

[MBentz]

Are the still doing this? I just woke up and the servers are still up.

Edit - Just kidding. Lol

 

[EDUSAN]

i hope they do some retroactive leveling for paragon, i have been lvl 60 for quite some time farming and now i feel like it was somewhat useless cause now i will start "leveling" from 0 again

I cant seem to be sell anything with real money anymore... which was kinda the only thing that kept me going with the farm.
And this paragon thing, although it looks nice, it doesnt give you anything besides a bit MF and GF. In d2 you had a new skill point every TRILLIONS of exp you farmed at Baal, so you were farming to get stronger (no idea what for either, but you were getting something out of it)

 

[darkewaffle]

The patch notes say each paragon level increases your primary stats at about the same rate a normal level does.

 

[Rukian]

You are getting stat points (dex, vit, str, int) with each level. There may not be new skills, but you will be much more powerful after a few (20-30) level.

 

[ahdaniels76]

You get more than MF/GF, you also get a level's worth of stat increases each time. That'll add up.

 

[EDUSAN]

oh sorry, i must have missed that.

well...that kinda makes it even i guess. Cause in d2 after lvl 60 you only had 40 more levels while here after 60 you still have 100 levels of paragon to do

 

[Hacp]

oh sorry, i must have missed that.

well...that kinda makes it even i guess. Cause in d2 after lvl 60 you only had 40 more levels while here after 60 you still have 100 levels of paragon to do

In diablo 2, you could complete Hell Baal with a subpar build by lvl 75.

 

[darkxshade]

Inferno won't be challenging anymore with the paragon levels and dmg nerfs to all mobs... also no more enrage and full heals on death of champ packs. They essentially decided nix of the idea of making it a challenge and replaced it with a mundane grindfest instead. Guess it's for the best, we asked for this, we got it.

Doesn't matter to me either way really, already beat inferno on barb & monk. Don't expect there to be any major patches for some time... prob till end of the year.

 

[darkewaffle]

In diablo 2, you could complete Hell Baal with a subpar build by lvl 75.

I don't consider that to be a good thing personally.

 

[EDUSAN]

In diablo 2, you could complete Hell Baal with a subpar build by lvl 75.

yeah but nearly nobody stopped playing d2 when you beat Baal.
Beating Baal for the 1st time was like killing Diablo in Hell difficulty in d3. Its just the beginning

 

[silverpig]

Inferno won't be challenging anymore with the paragon levels and dmg nerfs to all mobs... also no more enrage and full heals on death of champ packs. They essentially decided nix of the idea of making it a challenge and replaced it with a mundane grindfest instead. Guess it's for the best, we asked for this, we got it.

Doesn't matter to me either way really, already beat inferno on barb & monk. Don't expect there to be any major patches for some time... prob till end of the year.

I was thinking the same thing. All the bad guys got easier, they upped the damage on skills and some weapons, and they are allowing people to get stronger through levelling.

I haven't beat the game yet (start of A3 with my DH), but I don't think there was going to be any way for me to do it with my DH until things changed.

Now I might be able to find some decent gear instead of having to farm gold for weeks to buy an upgrade (or pay $100s of dollars for it), and might be able to last a while against A3 elites.

 

[silverpig]

My game just updated. Servers are still down though. I guess 5 hours to go.

 

[diesbudt]

Inferno won't be challenging anymore with the paragon levels and dmg nerfs to all mobs... also no more enrage and full heals on death of champ packs. They essentially decided nix of the idea of making it a challenge and replaced it with a mundane grindfest instead. Guess it's for the best, we asked for this, we got it.

Doesn't matter to me either way really, already beat inferno on barb & monk. Don't expect there to be any major patches for some time... prob till end of the year.

Basically made it like D2 again. More or less.

 

[Hacp]

I don't consider that to be a good thing personally.

Its an Action RPG. Not an MMORPG. You're supposed to be overpowered. You're supposed to dominate all the monsters. The genius behind Diablo 2 was that after you owned with the cookie cutter build, you could build a non-cookie cutter one and still see how hard you could own at the game.

One fansite I frequented quite regularly back then was Sirian's fansite, where he beat Hell Diablo with a necromancer having access to only skeleton minions. No revives. No Bone Spirit. Hardcore. Very impressive. That's why people kept coming back.

Overall, I feel that today's game developers, and I'm not just talking about diablo 3 but other games as well, put too much emphasis on balance. Sure, balance is great, however it removes a large part of what makes video games so fun, that is finding optimal combinations of skills and equipment. Today's game designers punish these players by constantly rebalancing(nerfing) skills or item combinations if they were not intended by the developers, up to the point where you feel micromanaged. At that point, it stops becoming fun and feels more like a chore to play.

This philosophy is why I quit WoW, didn't purcahse SC2 or D3, and have stopped spending real money on league of legends.

 

[Brainonska511]

Today's game designers punish these players by constantly rebalancing(nerfing) skills or item combinations if they were not intended by the developers, up to the point where you feel micromanaged. At that point, it stops becoming fun and feels more like a chore to play.

That's how Diablo 2 felt many times. After the great 1.08 patch, where they added skill cooldowns and such. Or there was the patch where Nova was a great spell, but then nerfed two patches later. D2 had some good things going for it, but I don't think cookie cutter builds was one of them, as you'd usually be hamstrung into one or two viable builds (in 90% of cases) and one or two semi-viable (assuming you had the right gear).

 

[Hacp]

That's how Diablo 2 felt many times. After the great 1.08 patch, where they added skill cooldowns and such. Or there was the patch where Nova was a great spell, but then nerfed two patches later. D2 had some good things going for it, but I don't think cookie cutter builds was one of them, as you'd usually be hamstrung into one or two viable builds (in 90% of cases) and one or two semi-viable (assuming you had the right gear).

There were an unlimited amount of viable builds. Did you even read the part where I said there was a guy who beat hell diablo hardcore with just skeletons?

The cooldowns were added because spamming spells created too much lag in multiplayer. They ended up buffing all the spells affected by cooldowns so players would still feel powerful.

 

[diesbudt]

There were an unlimited amount of viable builds. Did you even read the part where I said there was a guy who beat hell diablo hardcore with just skeletons?

The cooldowns were added because spamming spells created too much lag in multiplayer. They ended up buffing all the spells affected by cooldowns so players would still feel powerful.

You can gimp yourself on D3 too...

Its all about choice.

 

[Hacp]

You can gimp yourself on D3 too...

Its all about choice.

There is no choice in D3. You build a few ways or else you won't be able to beat the final boss. In D2, you could build however you liked, and there was a pretty good chance that you would be able to breeze through the game and get the best loot at the same time.

I still remember all the different sorcs I built. Charged bolt sorc. Chain Lightning sorc. Fireball Sorc. Guardian Sorc. Glacial Spike Sorc. Frozen Orb sorc. I still remember putting all my points into energy because I ran out of mana often. Now these days, people put it into vitality, but you could still beat the game easily if you did it the other way around.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Inferno won't be challenging anymore with the paragon levels and dmg nerfs to all mobs... also no more enrage and full heals on death of champ packs. They essentially decided nix of the idea of making it a challenge and replaced it with a mundane grindfest instead. Guess it's for the best, we asked for this, we got it.

Doesn't matter to me either way really, already beat inferno on barb & monk. Don't expect there to be any major patches for some time... prob till end of the year.

I agree, and quite frankly I'm tired of games that turn into endless grinds, I've got just a little bit more I want to do in D3 before I quit.
I also think they are backing themselves in a corner with this system. I don't know how they are going to add DLC to the game now. I always expected that sometime around the end of the year or early next year we would see a DLC containing some extra levels and maybe a new act, and perhaps another mid next year with a new class and even more levels. But now, I'm not so sure.

 

[HopJokey]

I was thinking the same thing. All the bad guys got easier, they upped the damage on skills and some weapons, and they are allowing people to get stronger through levelling.

I haven't beat the game yet (start of A3 with my DH), but I don't think there was going to be any way for me to do it with my DH until things changed.

Now I might be able to find some decent gear instead of having to farm gold for weeks to buy an upgrade (or pay $100s of dollars for it), and might be able to last a while against A3 elites.

There is always Hardcore mode for those who like a difficult challenge.

 

[darkewaffle]

Its an Action RPG. Not an MMORPG. You're supposed to be overpowered. You're supposed to dominate all the monsters. The genius behind Diablo 2 was that after you owned with the cookie cutter build, you could build a non-cookie cutter one and still see how hard you could own at the game.

One fansite I frequented quite regularly back then was Sirian's fansite, where he beat Hell Diablo with a necromancer having access to only skeleton minions. No revives. No Bone Spirit. Hardcore. Very impressive. That's why people kept coming back.

Overall, I feel that today's game developers, and I'm not just talking about diablo 3 but other games as well, put too much emphasis on balance. Sure, balance is great, however it removes a large part of what makes video games so fun, that is finding optimal combinations of skills and equipment. Today's game designers punish these players by constantly rebalancing(nerfing) skills or item combinations if they were not intended by the developers, up to the point where you feel micromanaged. At that point, it stops becoming fun and feels more like a chore to play.

What's the point in playing if you can't lose? I don't want to steamroll everything, it bores me. I want risk, I want drama, and I want danger. And I don't want a game where I have to artificially limit myself to experience that. Even "tic tac toe" becomes difficult to win if you just try to fill in the far right column from top to bottom every time, but who wants to play like that?

How does balance remove that part of the game? If anything it makes that all the more elusive and complex because the answer is no longer plain as day (a la D2). In D2 the optimal builds were basically "max an AoE skill, then spam it until your finger falls off". I don't agree with change for the sake of change, but if select builds/skills/abilities/whatever are leaps and bounds ahead of all the other choices, then I don't see a good reason to leave them there. The repercussions of it are not only that most players all end up playing the same way, but then how it affects the content itself. If one 'playstyle' is so powerful compared to the others, do you need to make the content harder at the expense of everyone else or tune it for everyone else and make everything even easier for the superbuild? I don't think anything good can come from that situation.

To me balance and challenge are the core of any decent and lasting game.

 

[HopJokey]

What's the point in playing if you can't lose? I don't want to steamroll everything, it bores me. I want risk, I want drama, and I want danger. And I don't want a game where I have to artificially limit myself to experience that. Even "tic tac toe" becomes difficult to win if you just try to fill in the far right column from top to bottom every time, but who wants to play like that?

How does balance remove that part of the game? If anything it makes that all the more elusive and complex because the answer is no longer plain as day (a la D2). In D2 the optimal builds were basically "max an AoE skill, then spam it until your finger falls off". I don't agree with change for the sake of change, but if select builds/skills/abilities/whatever are leaps and bounds ahead of all the other choices, then I don't see a good reason to leave them there. The repercussions of it are not only that most players all end up playing the same way, but then how it affects the content itself. If one 'playstyle' is so powerful compared to the others, do you need to make the content harder at the expense of everyone else or tune it for everyone else and make everything even easier for the superbuild? I don't think anything good can come from that situation.

To me balance and challenge are the core of any decent and lasting game.

Want to talk about risk? Try Hardcore mode.

 

[Hacp]

What's the point in playing if you can't lose? I don't want to steamroll everything, it bores me. I want risk, I want drama, and I want danger. And I don't want a game where I have to artificially limit myself to experience that. Even "tic tac toe" becomes difficult to win if you just try to fill in the far right column from top to bottom every time, but who wants to play like that?

How does balance remove that part of the game? If anything it makes that all the more elusive and complex because the answer is no longer plain as day (a la D2). In D2 the optimal builds were basically "max an AoE skill, then spam it until your finger falls off". I don't agree with change for the sake of change, but if select builds/skills/abilities/whatever are leaps and bounds ahead of all the other choices, then I don't see a good reason to leave them there. The repercussions of it are not only that most players all end up playing the same way, but then how it affects the content itself. If one 'playstyle' is so powerful compared to the others, do you need to make the content harder at the expense of everyone else or tune it for everyone else and make everything even easier for the superbuild? I don't think anything good can come from that situation.

To me balance and challenge are the core of any decent and lasting game.

Maybe the generation that was brought up on world of warcraft is different. I loved games like gauntlet legends, final fantasy, and chrono trigger back in the 90s. Replayed them at least a dozen times. Played pokemon who knows how many hours. I loved diablo 1 and diablo 2. What do all of these RPGs have in common? You could easily destroy the content if you put extra time into it. It was not perfectly balanced. They were games that intentionally left a path for the player to steamroll past the final levels. To me, that is what makes a fun RPG. The ability to feel like a God on the hardest content.

In some ways, what made pokemon so sucessful also made Diablo2 sucessful. Was there an optimal pokemon team you could build that would steamroll the Elite 4? Probably. But I remade countless amounts of games to see how many different combinations I could beat the game with. Same with Diablo 2. There were3 skill trees with 5 or 6 tiers of skills for each tree. You could have so many different builds, and with 9 classes, there were hundreds of hours of re-playability if you wanted to try all the combinations.