Official ATI 4870 X2 reviews thread.

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Well logic tells me that you cannot graph things that doesn't exist?

Im sorry to break it out for you, but the tooth fairy doesn't exist. ;

i hate to break this to you .. but before Ruby got the ATi gig, she was the tooth fairy
:Q

AFAIK, the only times MS becomes an issues is with AFR.

Use a powerful enough multi GPU solution and switch to MSAA or super-sampling

Problem solved. Something i could not always do with 2900xt Crossfire.

Now with 4870x3 i should never see it at all

i'll let you know if i can graph it, however -
- i mean Ruby .. technically she does not exist either

 

[BFG10K]

Originally posted by: apoppin

IF you enable MSAA or SuperSampling then the problems with AFR goes away...

This isn't true; you can't enable any old AA mode, it has to be the multi-GPU AA modes. Regular AA still operates under AFR.

Originally posted by: Hugh H

Its like the tooth fairy. If you believe in it, it exists.

Micro-stutter can be graphed and also mathematically proven to exist.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: apoppin

IF you enable MSAA or SuperSampling then the problems with AFR goes away...

This isn't true; you can't enable any old AA mode, it has to be the multi-GPU AA modes. Regular AA still operates under AFR.

OK. Quite true, i was not specific; the new crossfire AA - the real purpose of Crossfire AA [imo]
- My 4870x3 should run it fine and so did my 2900xt x2, in much more limited circumstances - when it could be enabled without killing FPS. Often times i would chose to run slightly shower with a single 8800gtx, over picking Crossfire [Crysis =P]



Problem solved, i believe
- i will let you know, of course

At any rate, although i can handle MS, it is very nice to be free of it

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: apoppin


i was thinking of an x48 with a cheap [haha] O/C'able QC and my current 4GB pc6400 OC'd also as far as it will go

BY *next year*, i will decide if i need another MB/CPU/RAM upgrade
-or not

now how should i do it again?

E8400,8500, or 8600.
4.1, 4.2, or 4.4Ghz
$150, $190, $270

keep your ram,

open box x38 asus @ egg for $140

2x Pci-E 2.0 x16 slots. Crossfire til you're blue in the face & save the dough. You could essentially sell your e4300, 4870, and p965 for ~ $300 and upgrade to the 8400/asus x38 for ~ $290. For any amount of money, it will still be hard to beat the gaming performance of a 4.1+ghz 6mb wolfdale on an X38 w/ R700. Even with a QX9770 on an X48 for $1800, the gaming benchmarks will be the same.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jaredpace

Originally posted by: apoppin


i was thinking of an x48 with a cheap [haha] O/C'able QC and my current 4GB pc6400 OC'd also as far as it will go

BY *next year*, i will decide if i need another MB/CPU/RAM upgrade
-or not

now how should i do it again?

E8400,8500, or 8600.
4.1, 4.2, or 4.4Ghz
$150, $190, $270

keep your ram,

open box x38 asus @ egg for $140

2x Pci-E 2.0 x16 slots. Crossfire til you're blue in the face & save the dough. You could essentially sell your e4300, 4870, and p965 for ~ $300 and upgrade to the 8400/asus x38 for ~ $290. For any amount of money, it will still be hard to beat the gaming performance of a 4.1+ghz 6mb wolfdale on an X38 w/ R700. Even with a QX9770 on an X48 for $1800, the gaming benchmarks will be the same.

thanks for the suggestions . . . however i do have some problems with the way you present my upgrade path:

first of all, i really want quad core; one of the cheaper ones OCs pretty well also

secondly, i do want to keep my RAM; i see some x48 MBs support DDR2/3 but cost ~$100 more than your Asus. The Asus is also missing some parts, right?

Finally, doesn't those x38 x16 PCIe lanes turn into 8x + 8x when crossfire is enabled; sometimes 16x+8x?
- i am getting a little confused looking at my choices


also i really want to play with an X3 solution - i'd like to explore the interaction of the 512MB vRAM card with the X2 in a Crossfire x3 solution.

 

[nitromullet]

Finally, doesn't those x38 x16 PCIe lanes turn into 8x + 8x when crossfire is enabled; sometimes 16x+8x?
- i am getting a little confused looking at my choices

You're thinking of P45, which runs PCIe 2.0 8x/8x, or P35 which runs PCIe 1.0 16x/4x... For all intents and purposes, X38 and X48 are the same chip. I'm honestly not sure what the difference is, except that I've read that the X48 is a speed binned X38 guaranteed to do 400MHz FSB. They both run PCIe 2.0 16x/16x.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Finally, doesn't those x38 x16 PCIe lanes turn into 8x + 8x when crossfire is enabled; sometimes 16x+8x?
- i am getting a little confused looking at my choices

You're thinking of P45, which runs PCIe 2.0 8x/8x, or P35 which runs PCIe 1.0 16x/4x... For all intents and purposes, X38 and X48 are the same chip. I'm honestly not sure what the difference is, except that I've read that the X48 is a speed binned X38 guaranteed to do 400MHz FSB. They both run PCIe 2.0 16x/16x.

thanks. Yes, P35 is what i have [16x/4x]; P45 is not what i want [8x/8x] ... and X38/x48 would be fine [16x/16x], using DDR2 for now.

Bad news .. my 4870x2 is backordered from best buy ... that means a week or two
-- if ever
:brokenheart:

finally, i want a Yorkfield quad-core, right - for better OC'ing - not Kentsfield?
- will Q9300 make a decent OC or do i have to go for a higher-clocked core?

 

[airhendrix13]

Perhaps I missed this part of the thread, but can someone tell me if a 680i mobo's dual PCI-E 1.1 X16 slots will limit the newest gen GPU's?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Finally, doesn't those x38 x16 PCIe lanes turn into 8x + 8x when crossfire is enabled; sometimes 16x+8x?
- i am getting a little confused looking at my choices

You're thinking of P45, which runs PCIe 2.0 8x/8x, or P35 which runs PCIe 1.0 16x/4x... For all intents and purposes, X38 and X48 are the same chip. I'm honestly not sure what the difference is, except that I've read that the X48 is a speed binned X38 guaranteed to do 400MHz FSB. They both run PCIe 2.0 16x/16x.

thanks. Yes, P35 is what i have [16x/4x]; P45 is not what i want [8x/8x] ... and X38/x48 would be fine [16x/16x], using DDR2 for now.

Bad news .. my 4870x2 is backordered from best buy ... that means a week or two
-- if ever
:brokenheart:

finally, i want a Yorkfield quad-core, right - for better OC'ing - not Kentsfield?
- will Q9300 make a decent OC or do i have to go for a higher-clocked core?

...ok, totally off topic here...

With a lower cost Kentsfield (Q6xxx) quad, you would most likely be able to obtain a higher clock than a lower cost Yorkfield because of the slower stock FSB/higher multiplier.

for example:

Q6600 = 266FSB x 9 = 2.4GHz (stock)
Q6600 = 356FSB x 9 = 3.2GHz

Q9300 = 333FSB x 7.5 = 2.5GHz (stock)
Q9300 = 427FSB x 7.5 = 3.2GHz

Q9450 = 333FSB x 8 = 2.66GHz (stock)
Q9450 = 400FSB x 8 = 3.2GHz

As you can see, the Yorkfield requires a much higher FSB OC to attain the same clock speed as the Kentsfield. Your motherboard will most likley be your limiting factor with the Q9300. Of course, clock for clock, the Yorkie is a bit faster. When going for a Yorkie quad core though, you want to try to get the one with the highest multiplier that fits your budget.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Finally, doesn't those x38 x16 PCIe lanes turn into 8x + 8x when crossfire is enabled; sometimes 16x+8x?
- i am getting a little confused looking at my choices

You're thinking of P45, which runs PCIe 2.0 8x/8x, or P35 which runs PCIe 1.0 16x/4x... For all intents and purposes, X38 and X48 are the same chip. I'm honestly not sure what the difference is, except that I've read that the X48 is a speed binned X38 guaranteed to do 400MHz FSB. They both run PCIe 2.0 16x/16x.

thanks. Yes, P35 is what i have [16x/4x]; P45 is not what i want [8x/8x] ... and X38/x48 would be fine [16x/16x], using DDR2 for now.

Bad news .. my 4870x2 is backordered from best buy ... that means a week or two
-- if ever
:brokenheart:

finally, i want a Yorkfield quad-core, right - for better OC'ing - not Kentsfield?
- will Q9300 make a decent OC or do i have to go for a higher-clocked core?

...ok, totally off topic here...

With a lower cost Kentsfield (Q6xxx) quad, you would most likely be able to obtain a higher clock than a lower cost Yorkfield because of the slower stock FSB/higher multiplier.

for example:

Q6600 = 266FSB x 9 = 2.4GHz (stock)
Q6600 = 356FSB x 9 = 3.2GHz

Q9300 = 333FSB x 7.5 = 2.5GHz (stock)
Q9300 = 427FSB x 7.5 = 3.2GHz

Q9450 = 333FSB x 8 = 2.66GHz (stock)
Q9450 = 400FSB x 8 = 3.2GHz

As you can see, the Yorkfield requires a much higher FSB OC to attain the same clock speed as the Kentsfield. Your motherboard will most likley be your limiting factor with the Q9300. Of course, clock for clock, the Yorkie is a bit faster. When going for a Yorkie quad core though, you want to try to get the one with the highest multiplier that fits your budget.

i don't know if it is *totally* OT since you are helping a fellow member with his 4870x2 .. How else can i review it?


i think we are within ToS

here is what is in my cart:
Q9550 for $329

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115041
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2

how doable is close to 4Ghz? With a 8.5 locked multiplier, it appears that FSB is more reasonable; 450Mhz would give me 3.8Ghz .. a nice step over my e4300 if i can pull it off and likely OK for 4870x3

. . . and which x48 MB provides 16x+16x PCIe functionality when CrossfireX is enabled; i AM confused about x48 MBs for my 4870 + 4870x2

this is Asrock's x48

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overv...del=X48TurboTwins-WiFi

- Supports ATI? CrossFire?
- 2 x PCI Express x16 slots (green @ x16 mode)
- 1 x PCI Express x1 slot
- 3 x PCI slots

i *thought* all x48s had 16x +16x ?

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Perhaps I missed this part of the thread, but can someone tell me if a 680i mobo's dual PCI-E 1.1 X16 slots will limit the newest gen GPU's?

I'd like to know this as well since I'm using a P35 at the moment. TechPowerUp used a P35 in their 4870 x2 testing (PCI-E 1.1) and it still seemed to do fairly well but still not enough data to determine if the motherboard was a bottleneck.

 

[airhendrix13]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: airhendrix13
Perhaps I missed this part of the thread, but can someone tell me if a 680i mobo's dual PCI-E 1.1 X16 slots will limit the newest gen GPU's?

I'd like to know this as well since I'm using a P35 at the moment. TechPowerUp used a P35 in their 4870 x2 testing (PCI-E 1.1) and it still seemed to do fairly well but still not enough data to determine if the motherboard was a bottleneck.

If anyone has info about this I'm sure both of us would greatly appreciate it!

 

[mrmessyhair]

I'm using it in a PCI-E 1.1 slot right now.

I'm about to run some 3d Mark, post results in a little bit.

edit> well I didn't boot up 3d Mark, but it runs crysis at 1920*1200 at high with 8xAA at a playable rate

and HL2 ep2 at all setting maxed extremely well.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: apoppin
. . . and which x48 MB provides 16x+16x PCIe functionality when CrossfireX is enabled; i AM confused about x48 MBs for my 4870 + 4870x2

this is Asrock's x48

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overv...del=X48TurboTwins-WiFi

- Supports ATI? CrossFire?
- 2 x PCI Express x16 slots (green @ x16 mode)
- 1 x PCI Express x1 slot
- 3 x PCI slots

i *thought* all x48s had 16x +16x ?

Look at the picture... it has two green PCIe slots.

 

[Hauk]

I played through Assassin's Creed with 4850 CF and am replaying it now with 4870 X2. Nice boost to say the least! I had a slight slowdown in scenes where a lot of NPC's were involved, like a panic induced crowd. Not now. With vsync on it's maxed at the framecap with every scenario. All details maxed including multisampling. :thumbsup: :heart: :beer:

If Catalyst 8.8 yields even better CF results (as they're promosing), it'll be icing on the cake. Don't be shy if you're considering one of these. Wow..

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: SteelSix
I played through Assassin's Creed with 4850 CF and am replaying it now with 4870 X2. Nice boost to say the least! I had a slight slowdown in scenes where a lot of NPC's were involved, like a panic induced crowd. Not now. With vsync on it's maxed at the framecap with every scenario. All details maxed including multisampling. :thumbsup: :heart: :beer:

If Catalyst 8.8 yields even better CF results (as they're promosing), it'll be icing on the cake. Don't be shy if you're considering one of these. Wow..

How do you fare in Crysis Assault Harbor 2560x1600 8XAA 16XAF?

Slightly OT - Check out this beautiful pic i found over at HardForum:
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3161/imgp3330vi1.jpg

 

[Hauk]

Not to sound like a hater, but I don't bother with Crysis in any way, shape, or form. :thumbsdown:

 

[Tempered81]

I hear yah, you do know you have the fastest card though, right? check this review...

http://www.cluboverclocker.com...hd4870x2_2GB/page7.asp

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
I hear yah, you do know you have the fastest card though, right? check this review...

http://www.cluboverclocker.com...hd4870x2_2GB/page7.asp

Yea I know. I'll actually play it at some point. Maybe when I throw another one of these puppies in the mix.

It's been hard, but I'm letting go of my nVidia blanket and am embracing this product cycle for all it's glory. Today's the first opportunity I've had to spend time gaming with this thing. OMG, I'm in love.

Coming from a very good 4850 CF solution, I'm highly impressed with this card. Pure rendering horsepower coupled with sufficent memory capacity and bandwidth, this thing is amazing. I'm so impressed with this card right now that I need to take a break, going for a beer.

Cheers to ATI for making this thing! :beer: 2GB of DDR5, 2 GPU's that took the world by surprise. Good stuff...

 

[airhendrix13]

Originally posted by: mrmessyhair
I'm using it in a PCI-E 1.1 slot right now.

I'm about to run some 3d Mark, post results in a little bit.

edit> well I didn't boot up 3d Mark, but it runs crysis at 1920*1200 at high with 8xAA at a playable rate

and HL2 ep2 at all setting maxed extremely well.

Cool, look forward to seeing it!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: apoppin
. . . and which x48 MB provides 16x+16x PCIe functionality when CrossfireX is enabled; i AM confused about x48 MBs for my 4870 + 4870x2

this is Asrock's x48

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overv...del=X48TurboTwins-WiFi

- Supports ATI? CrossFire?
- 2 x PCI Express x16 slots (green @ x16 mode)
- 1 x PCI Express x1 slot
- 3 x PCI slots

i *thought* all x48s had 16x +16x ?

Look at the picture... it has two green PCIe slots.

the obvious .. thanks


BUT .. instead, i am getting the Asus which can be flashed to their Rampage
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131317

and Q9550

if i can OC to 3.6Ghz, it appears my 4970x3 might not be so bottlenecked
- at 19x12

 

[Tempered81]

Ati tray tools coming back for 4800 series:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=198722

 

[bigboxes]

Anyone know if there are any aftermarket cooling (air) for these X2 video cards? I e-mailed Thermalright a couple months ago and was told no. Their reply: There isn't a big enough demand. The X2 video cards are for enthusiasts. I told the rep that describes Thermalright.

 

[MichaelD]

I'd imagine it's just a matter of time before we see aftermarket cooling for the X2.

Unfortunately (IMO) it'll probably be just like most other "enthusiast" GPU cooling solutions. It will have a massive heatsink and a 120mm fan with a speed control attached to a PCI bracket. It will dump all of the (considerable) heat right back in the case. :roll:

To me, this is self-defeating. You cool the card a little more so you can overclock it a bit higher, which generates more heat, which you are now dumping right back inside the case...which raises case temps AND GPU temps.

The best cooling solution besides a waterblock is the 2-slot solution that dumps the heat outside the case. And that happens to be the stock cooling.

In other news, my X2 is backordered from Provantage, but they are usually pretty quick about getting things in-hand. Hopefully the fact that the X2 is in high demand doesn't screw that up too badly.

 

[dennilfloss]

I think I've read that if it fits the 3870 X2, it will fit the 4870 X2.