*** Official ASUS P4C800/Deluxe (875P) Thread ***

[jhites]

Originally posted by: Lioness
Kingston HyperX (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6-1T $265

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 Black Hi Perf Level II
-OEM Cas Latency: 2-2-2 1T $143.00 each. In stock

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3500 Black Hi Perf Level II - OEM Cas Latency: 2; In Stock: NO $158.00 each

Cas Latency's are the timings, right? Mushkin is still producing the BH5 chips?

If I just pop these into the dimm slots the BIOS should auto configure them, right? Or do I need to set the actually timings? It isn't that this doesn't interest me, it's just that I would like my first build to go as smoothly as possible.
CPU will be 2.8c. That article you suggest is perfect. I had read Searching for the Memory Holy Grail part one and completely forgot about part two.

First let me say. No OC is a huge mistake with a 2.8C chip. If that is your choice, then I would recommend the Mushkin PC3200 Black Level II. The Kingston HyperX that I ran at 2-2-2-5-1T PAT enabled was the BH5 chips that they are not using any longer on their new ram. Do not use Auto for the ram timings once you boot up. Set this to the timings for the Black which I believe to be 2-2-2-5-4 PAT enabled. This will be your best settings for running 🙁 200fsb.

Now if you could talk yourself into just a modest OC of say 220fsb, then go with the PC3500 Mushkin Black Level II and set the vdimm to 2.85v with timings of 2-2-2-6-4 PAT enabled. Now that is getting closer. 😉

 

[lament]

if i go with a 2.8C and overclock (which i'm now thinking about doing), would you recommend the Kingston HyperX Series Dual Kits 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200 (Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6-1T)? if so, what settings? and if i don't overclock, should i get different memory? thanks!

 

[jhites]

Originally posted by: lament
if i go with a 2.8C and overclock (which i'm now thinking about doing), would you recommend the Kingston HyperX Series Dual Kits 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200 (Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6-1T)? if so, what settings? and if i don't overclock, should i get different memory? thanks!

Read my post just before yours. I would not recommend the PC3200 Kingston dual kit for overclocking. Due to the fact that you can most likely get 250fsb with relative ease. I would recommend PC4000 in order for you to run 1:1 memory ratio. I did prove on my system that there is a marginal 15% gain even when running 262fsb and that was with Kingston HyperX running 5:4 mem ratio with timings set at 2-2-2-5-4 PAT enabled vs. 1:1 mem ratio PC4000 at 2.5-4-3-7-4 PAT enabled.

 

[ItsMillerTime]

Originally posted by: computer

Does the Promise controller support a single bootable hard drive? For "on the fly" dvd recording, the source and destination drives cannot be on the same controller, I want to put my combo drive on primary and the dvd burner on the secondary. Will I need to get a sata drive or setup a raid on the Promise?

Yes. But as far as your exact application, I don't know. All I know is a single drive on it is bootable, and the Promise is the faster of the controllers. I'll be posting some very extensive benchmarks soon comparing Promise to ICH5 and comparing hard drives.

computer, the single ide on the Promise is temporary; I'm not sure if I should get a sata drive yet, since their performance does not justify the cost. Also, I have an Adaptec 2906 SCSI card that needs a home. 😕 Umm, decisions, decisions... Just waiting for your post on the benchmarks, hope it helps make my mind up

Has anyone tried moving a drive that has been setup on the primary ide to the Promise controller? Do I just enable the Promise and set it's operating mode to ide in "Onboard Devices Configuration"?

 

[computer]

Overall, the Raptor is not worth it in my tests. However, I can't find the same benchmarks that Anandtech ran which showed the Raptor exceeding that of even SCSI drives in all but 1 test I think, plus it's much cheaper than SCSI. Oddly, they used an Si 3112 PCI controller card for the Raptor, and I have one that I tested and it was by far the SLOWEST of the ICH5, and Native controller!

BTW, anyone know where I can get SysMark and Winstone FREE? Anandtech also used benchmarks where they didn't even give the name. Raptor review. . I really need to finish these tests. Well, I have, but it won't be complete until I can get SysMark and Winstone. I tested 5 HD's against each other (WD800JB, Raptor, Maxtor DiamondMax 9 80gb, Seagate 'Cuda 80gg & 120gb), all but the Raptor are 7200rpm, 8mb buffer, ATA100 except the Maxtor is ATA133. If someone has these tests and can send them to me, I can run the tests then send them back to you. Please PM me if you can do that.

 

[computer]

Kingston HyperX (Dual Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6-1T $265.

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 Black Hi Perf Level II
-OEM Cas Latency: 2-2-2 1T $143.00 each. In stock

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3500 Black Hi Perf Level II - OEM Cas Latency: 2; In Stock: NO $158.00 each

Cas Latency's are the timings, right? Mushkin is still producing the BH5 chips?

If I just pop these into the dimm slots the BIOS should auto configure them, right? Or do I need to set the actually timings? It isn't that this doesn't interest me, it's just that I would like my first build to go as smoothly as possible.

CPU will be 2.8c. That article you suggest is perfect. I had read Searching for the Memory Holy Grail part one and completely forgot about part two.

You don't want to get single sticks because they won't be matched as they would in a dual kit. However, since you don't plan to O'clock, that may not be as important........however again, for the best stability you should get a kit (matched sticks). No, sometimes you have to manually set the memory settings.

CAS Latency is only one of about 5 memory timing specs. It's usually the first one when all specs are given: 2-2-2-5. You can see all of them on this mobo when you set the memory timings area from SPD to manual. They are simple to set in case they won't "SPD correctly" and in the case of non-O'clocking they are also easier to set. I don't know which kind of chips Mushkin is producing now. IMO the Mushkin Level II Black PC3500 in your particular case is your best bet for performance.

 

[lament]

Originally posted by: jhites

Originally posted by: lament
if i go with a 2.8C and overclock (which i'm now thinking about doing), would you recommend the Kingston HyperX Series Dual Kits 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200 (Cas Latency: 2-3-2-6-1T)? if so, what settings? and if i don't overclock, should i get different memory? thanks!

Read my post just before yours. I would not recommend the PC3200 Kingston dual kit for overclocking. Due to the fact that you can most likely get 250fsb with relative ease. I would recommend PC4000 in order for you to run 1:1 memory ratio. I did prove on my system that there is a marginal 15% gain even when running 262fsb and that was with Kingston HyperX running 5:4 mem ratio with timings set at 2-2-2-5-4 PAT enabled vs. 1:1 mem ratio PC4000 at 2.5-4-3-7-4 PAT enabled.

looks like i'll be going with the 2.8C and the Kingston HyperX PC4000 2x256 (which is on sale this week at Best Buy).

What settings got you up to 262FSB, jhites? and do you have any extra cooling? i'm thinking about a Zalman ZM-7000A.

 

[jhites]

I am air cooled with a SP94 using a 92mm 57cfm Panaflo. Great heatsink the SP94. I was using the SLK900U with the same fan but the SP94 dropped my temps by about 7C. How much you get out of your 2.8C depends on the chip. I wish there was a magic answer to the settings for attaining 250-270fsb but it is really all in the luck of the draw with every cpu that you buy. I have had my share of chips that were not good overclockers, also.

 

[Lioness]

As recommended by computer and jhites
I've decided to go with the "Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3500 Black Hi Perf Level II - OEM Cas Latency: 2." The only problem is I don't see any Hi Perf Black Level II's nor dual kits at Newegg. I'm wondering if I should look elsewhere or wait for restocking.

Thanks for helping me make a decision.

 

[jhites]

Lioness

If you don't want to wait, you can always get them from Mushkin here.

 

[Lioness]

Ahh. I'm seeing the 222's on newegg. Mushkin 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 "222 Special" Dual Pack - Retail

and this

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 Black Hi Perf "222 Special"
-OEM

As you see one is a dual pk. The other is single stick and the Black Hi Perf. It doesn't seem like either are the Level II BH5. But the Cas latency is CAS 2-2-2 @ 400mhz. I may be to late to pick up the PC-3500 BL. Hi Per Level II.

I'm going to look around and see if I can find some, used or new. I'm sure I won't be the only one looking for these. But it's worth a try.

thanks

 

[jhites]

Originally posted by: Lioness

The other is single stick and the Black Hi Perf. It doesn't seem like either are the Level II BH5.

The Mushkin PC3500 Level II Black uses the Winbond BH6 chips currently.

 

[Lioness]

I thought they used the BH5. I'm getting confused. Am I understanding this correctly, the BH5 is better than the BH6. Has the BH6 has replaced the BH5? Or am I totally confused.

I found this on another forum and he said it uses the BH5. "2x Matched Mushkin PC3500 Level 2 (2-2-6-2) 512MB (1GB total)." I planned on bidding on it. I planned on bidding.

I'm also looking at this. Is this a BH5? Corsair XMS Memory 2 x512 PC3200 v1.1 Cas 2 Ram -- $200

 

[jhites]

Originally posted by: Lioness
I thought they used the BH5. I'm getting confused. Am I understanding this correctly, the BH5 is better than the BH6. Has the BH6 has replaced the BH5? Or am I totally confused.

I found this on another forum and he said it uses the BH5. "2x Matched Mushkin PC3500 Level 2 (2-2-6-2) 512MB (1GB total)." I planned on bidding on it. I planned on bidding.

I'm also looking at this. Is this a BH5? Corsair XMS Memory 2 x512 PC3200 v1.1 Cas 2 Ram -- $200

Unless you can buy some ram that was made prior to about July of 2003, most likely the memory chips used with not be BH5. Winbond replaced the BH5 with the BH6 at about that time and most of the mem makers have used their stock from what I have read. They are a very rare mem chip at this time. If those sticks that you found on another forum are for sale and are a few months old, then they very well could be the BH5. I was also wrong on my comment above. It is the PC3200 that is currently using the BH6 chips. I am not sure what chips are on the current PC3500 but would suspect the Winbond CH5/BH6 or Hynix. You might email Mushkin and check on which chips they are currently using.

Go here for the Corsair XMS chips.

 

[jhites]

I just found this information that was printed on September 2003.

Mushkin uses Winbond BH5 chips in PC3500 Level II. BH5 is an almost legendary memory chip that has recently been discontinued, but Mushkin assures us they have sufficient stock to continue manufacture of Level II modules for many months. It was the chip used in many of the very best low-latency modules in recent months, and replacement chips have not been able to achieve the same aggressive timings at DDR400 we have seen in the past.

Maybe they still have stock for the PC3500 Level II. 😀

 

[Lioness]

I read that a few days ago.

Ram guy says "TwinX-PC3200LL Rev1.1: Winbond BH-5".

 

[shleepy]

Hehe, I personally have 1Gb of WInBond BH-5 PC3500 🙂 Good stuff, although it's "generic" WinBond, not Mushkin or anything. They, indeed, DID discontinue making it a little while ago, and I believe Mushkin has been out of that stuff "indefinetely" for quite a while, now.

 

[shleepy]

Hehe, I personally have 1Gb of WInBond BH-5 PC3500 🙂 Good stuff, although it's "generic" WinBond, not Mushkin or anything. They, indeed, DID discontinue making it a little while ago, and I believe Mushkin has been out of that stuff "indefinetely" for quite a while, now.

 

[computer]

Lioness I don't see any at Pricewatch either. You may have to use a search engine in order to find the best prices. I'm sure they are probably the most expensive at the Mushkin website. Remember the Level II Black Hi-perf PC3500 is what you want. The PC3200 of the same might be as good as well and may work the same in your case, but the glowing Anand review was on the 3500.

 

[Lioness]

I found some on newegg. They got them in BUT it isn't a dual kit. Should I get it?

Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3500 Black Hi Perf Level II - OEM They are BH-5

I just bought it. If I'm not happy with it, I can always sell.

 

[Lioness]

Sold out within 1/2 hr. Got my confirmation for delivery.

 

[computer]

I believe I mentioned below that you should go with the matched set. 🙂 I found it........

You don't want to get single sticks because they won't be matched as they would in a dual kit. However, since you don't plan to O'clock, that may not be as important........however again, for the best stability you should get a kit (matched sticks).

You may luck out and get some sticks that are matched. They may work out fine for you, won't know until you try it.

 

[jhites]

Originally posted by: computer
I believe I mentioned below that you should go with the matched set. 🙂 I found it........

You don't want to get single sticks because they won't be matched as they would in a dual kit. However, since you don't plan to O'clock, that may not be as important........however again, for the best stability you should get a kit (matched sticks).

You may luck out and get some sticks that are matched. They may work out fine for you, won't know until you try it.

With the exception of the last pair of Hardcore Cooling PC4000 that I just purchased, all the ram that I bought for all six of the dual channel rigs I have owned were single sticks. To date I have used 2 single sticks on the following motherboards: Asus P4G8X, Asus P4P800, Abit IS7, Abit IC7, DFI PS83-BL and Asus P4C800. I have not had any problem doing this. I have ran Corsair PC3200LL, Corsair Value Ram, Corsair PC3200C2, Kingston HyperX PC3200, Kingston HyperX PC3500 and TwinMos PC3700 on these boards.

I did purchase these 2 single sticks at the same time from the same vendor. This helps to ensure that they do have the same specs and the specs are what is most important on the dual channel boards. The only reason to recommend the dual channel kits is because, as Computer mentioned, they have been tested together. This does give added security to both sticks working together at the rated speed and timings but I don't believe based on my experience that it is necessary with good ram.

I don't think that it was just a matter of being lucky on SIX different 2 single stick pairs of ram for these dual channel boards. Every single rig was overclocked, also. I just don't know how to run a rig at stock. 😉

 

[computer]

But I wonder how well any O'clocking would have been, had they have been matched kits. ? I think with a matched kit, you'll probably get either higher O'clocking, or tighter timings, or both since if they are not matched your performance will only be as good as your weakest stick. (Actually that is always the case, but to a lesser extent with matched kits). I know with Crucial, (they don't sell DC kits, at least they didn't when I checked) I've seen some pretty good benchmark comparisons on them in DC mode and it kind of makes you wonder how well they would do if they were a DC kit.

Of course in the case of you, Lioness, the O'clocking isn't going to come into play, but it may seeking the fastest timings. One way to find this out is to just use one stick at a time and see if you can get the same timings out of each of them. If so, then it (matched kits) is a moot point in your particular case. 🙂

 

[Lioness]

Everything seems to be going well on my first build. The memory is expected in tomorrow. I have a few questions. I have two WD hard drives: 160gb; 80gb and a CD-RW. Common sense tells me to install each hard drive as master on it?s own IDE. Is that correct? If I do it this way do I need to install XP on each drive? CD-RW should be slave on the primary IDE? I have a slipstreamed disc of XPSP1 that should recognize the 160gb hard drive?

After bootup I immediately enter BIOS:

1. Check time/date and see if all drives are recognized
2. In Advanced BIOS: I set boot order. Set CPU speed if not correct to 2.8mhz? and FSB to what? Is this also where I enable PATA?
3. AI Overclock Tuner (standard)>>I change to manual. I?ll see CPU ext. freq: (Mhz) 2.8mhz and leave DRAM freq and AGP/PCI at auto?
4. CPU Vcore Voltage: auto?
5. DDR Reference Voltage: auto?
6. AGP VDDQ Voltage: auto?
7. I also enable hyper-threading

Mushkin site states: Important: The latencies can be set manually and we have been running the PC3500 without any problems at 2:2:2-6 in DDR400 mode with a burst length of 8 for highest bandwidth. At auto, the DDR voltage is already at 2.68V, the same was measured at the 2.55 and 2.65V setting. At the 2.75V setting, the board will supply 2.78V which is the highest we can tolerate without compromising the longevity of the DIMMs . The P4C800 overclocks easily up to 300 (1200) MHz FSB, however, beyond 301 MHz, a dramatic performance hit occurs. Currently, the P4C800 is probably the fastest board on the market
USER TIPS: ?The P4C800 uses a different DIMM slot layout than the P4G8X, keep in mind that for dual channel operation either the blue or the black channel need to be populated, or else, all four DIMM slots need to be filled with matching pairs in the blue and black channels, respectively.?
The P4C800 uses an AMI BIOS that does not correctly read the SPD and will, at DDR400 mode, automatically set the latencies to 2.5:4:4 (CAS: tRCD: tRP), at least with the current BIOS versions but an update may fix this.

Anandtech article says: In Dual-Channel mode on 875/865 motherboards, we find that 2-2-3 is the true speed rating. Mushkin has indicated they will be making changes to their web descriptions to describe better the performance of the PC3500 Level II. Mushkin PC3500 Level II (DDR433) ? 2 x 512MB DS Dimms Intel 875P Performance. Memory Speed, Voltage, Timings>>400@2.55V 2-2-2-6 or 433@2.65V 2-2-3-6

Computer you said: ?You can see all of them on this mobo when you set the memory timings area from SPD to manual.?
So I go to DRAM Timing by SPD: I disable this to allow manual settings of DRAM.
CAS latency: my choices 2.0; 2.5; 3.0 What do I set this at?
DRAM RAS: 4 clocks; 3 clock; 2 clock Do I change this?
DRAM RAS to CAS delay: 4; 3; 2 Do I change this?
Dram precharge delay: 8; 7; 6; 5

Does PATA and HT need to be enabled both on the mobo as well as BIOS?

Keep in mind I?m using the Intel thermal pad ( I don't have AS5) on the CPU and Intel HS&Fan. Since the BIOS is flashed to the latest do I need to install the Asus CD at all?

Thank you for all your help.