Do you ever wonder what kind of people give money and time to Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Doctors Without Borders, the Peace Corps, and a myriad of other organizations which strive to provide comfort to people ignored by the US government (and France)? Organizations like Medicins sans Frontiers (Doctors Without Borders) only come with arms of medicine and compassion hence they rarely tell evil regimes to change their ways or face the wrath of a 16 gauge needle.
Invariably, spontaneous and well-planned rallies alike often attract malcontents who scarcely resemble advocates for peace and justice in the world. But if every dispute between competing positions becomes a clash of lowest common denominators then pro-lifers become war mongering murderers and captains of American industry become merchants of slave/child labor.
Invariably, spontaneous and well-planned rallies alike often attract malcontents who scarcely resemble advocates for peace and justice in the world. But if every dispute between competing positions becomes a clash of lowest common denominators then pro-lifers become war mongering murderers and captains of American industry become merchants of slave/child labor.
Hi.
Here is the link
I guess there is no surprise that this sort of stuff is going on. What interests me in the article is how the journalist who wrote it refers to "US-based patriotic hackers".
I didn't think that the actions of any of the groups outlined came under "Patriotic"? Do people agree?
Webster gives "Patriot" as:
"One who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests"
Do we think that Patriotism is being to widely adopted as a cause for the malevalent? (I suppose it always has).
Cheers,
Andy
Here is the link
I guess there is no surprise that this sort of stuff is going on. What interests me in the article is how the journalist who wrote it refers to "US-based patriotic hackers".
I didn't think that the actions of any of the groups outlined came under "Patriotic"? Do people agree?
Webster gives "Patriot" as:
"One who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests"
Do we think that Patriotism is being to widely adopted as a cause for the malevalent? (I suppose it always has).
Cheers,
Andy
Why dont the so called peace protesters not causing violance and destroying downtown STOP the so called splinter groups doing it?
Where are the statements from the groups you mention condemming Iraqs position that US and British troops will not be clasified as POWs?
There are tons against the US and Al Queda is not even country that signed the Geneva Convention.
From the link:
Yeah, that's a good way to protest the war. Can someone please take the script kiddiez' computers away from them?
I will excuse your ignorance if you will excuse mine. When I went to sleep last night, the reports were of arrests in SF due to violence AND civil disobedience (which is not the same as violence). I'm an enthusiastic supporter of arm-linked protestors shutting down exits on the Bay Bridge . . . now if they start beating the crap out of cars trying to pass . . . those qualify as roving bands which deserve lock ties and a night downtown.
The rally in Chi-town had indeed shut down parts of Lake Shore but at that time the police had reported NO violence . . . just people blocking the street which forced its closure. Our government has taken what I believe to be an action which will NEVER create more peace in the world and certainly is disturbing the peace in Iraq. Americans who want to give their fellow citizens a taste of discomfort should be commended for making war something more than watching FOX(misinformation)News or ConsumerNewsNetwork.
Again by the time I went to sleep, the press was reporting more than 30 separate groups of protestors assembled throughout NYC and how they were moving through the city . . . peacefully. I believe many were moving towards Times Square. Regardless, the shutdown of a side street or thoroughfare does not make a rally violent . . . it makes it effective. Every arrest for disturbing the peace is justified . . . but not any moreso than the right of people to assemble and make their opinions known.
I guess AI would condemn Iraq's position if Iraq actually had captured some troops or seemed likely to exist next month. Technically, Iraq could certainly claim that 1441 does not explicitly authorize war. Hence, Operation Iraqi Freedom (which has a very different objective than 1441 . . . hence the name) is not a lawfully sanctioned activity. The sum effect would be US/UK troops being labeled unlawful combatants and not entitled to protections under the Geneva Convention or at the very least not certifiable as POWs. Personally, I think such a position is BS but . . . of course, I think the US/UK position is BS as well.
I couldn't decipher your second statement. I'm not sure what Al Qaeda has to do with the Iraq invasion. It's irrelevant to note that Al Qaeda is not a signatory to the Geneva Convention. It is relevant that we are a signatory to the Geneva Convention but are selective in applying its principles.
These protests are ridiculous. That's fine that they don't agree with me, I really don't care about that, but what really ticks me off is that they disrupting the lives of people that have nothing to do with the war. Its really pretty sad. I am glad I don't live in an area where they're disrupting my life. Its obvious they don't give two sh!ts about the innocent people in Iraq, or they would have been demanding Saddam to get out. Unfortunately they don't see that a free Iraq will do more for their so-called peace process in the world, than their violent protesting will. They truly believe that our troops are going over there to line up Iraqi babies in the streets and gun them down. It sucks being demonized for trying to set a people free. I'll be glad when all this is over and the protesters are disappointed that we didn't kill more innocent iraqi people to give them something to whine about.
I believe in a free Iraq
I believe in a free Iraq
It is simple. When the US said we would not treat Al Queda as POWs. Amnesty International had a fit and condemmed the US right away.
Iraq says the exact same thing and silence.
Dude, do you have any idea how little attention the American media focused on Ivory Coast? If the US press gave 1/10th of the Oscar buzz to France waving its wanker in Africa then maybe you would see a left-of-center response. Unlike the dense anti-French denizens, the more erudite would drink some French wine, have some brie, and then march on the French embassy.
What is the logic behind this? What does it prove? All it does is pisses people off. If, like so many anti-war protesters claim, the majority of Americans aren't behind this war, then chances are likely that they will be pissing off people who share their opinion on the war. If that's not a way to turn people off, I don't know what is.
Just a thought. Everyone knows that Iraq is brutal and untrustworthy.
America is meant to be upstanding and law abiding.
I *think* that's all there is to that arguement.
Cheers,
Andy
I repeat . . . we signed the Geneva Convention and typically meet the standard . . . with the dramatic exception of our post 9/11 behavior. AI has railed against Iraq for two decades . . . including a period during which they advocated the isolation/condemnation of Saddam but were ignored by the US government.
AI 2002 report on Iraq
AI on 2003 Iraq Invasion
# Amnesty International seeks assurances from all parties - US, its allies and Iraq - that they will respect fully the laws of war, protect civilians and ensure their access to humanitarian assistance.
# The people of Iraq have a right to justice - it cannot be traded away through deals on immunity. We demand that all those responsible, in the past or now, are brought to justice.
# There is a grave risk that any attempts by the Iraqi regime to suppress internal uprisings or the settling of scores that could follow if the regime collapses could lead to widespread human rights abuses.
If you are going to criticize entities for duplicity . . . try going to the source to confirm your bias. Relying on sources, particularly US-biased organizations invariably leads to a horribly distorted view of the world.
Sorry, but these protests are BS. If you want to protest, fine..................but protest at the right places and against the people you are focused on.................NOT ordinary citizens! These protests are doing what????? Disrupting ordinary citizens daily lives. They are not big enough to draw any substancial attention and to be honest are causing more people to be against them than they are making any difference toward the war they are against. Go to DC and protest..........NOT in cities by closing down traffic, disrupting lives and drawing the attention of law enforcement which could possibly cause the death of more people by keeping law enforcement officials from concentrating on detecting and stopping possible terrorists.......................
Another thing, what exactly is the beef? Iraq has already used illegal/undisclosed weaponry, set their own oil fields on fire, and threatened all western civilization (US/UK and anyone with them) with death by land, sea or air. The coalition has NOT hit any civilian areas and has in fact taken great pain NOT to! Can you not see that this conflict could well be settled already if indiscriminate bombing had taken place? Also, what of the US Iraqis and those in country whom are cheering our liberation of Iraq? One last thing, I am retired USMC and have a lot of freinds and family active in various US military wings..................I can tell you this, like it/mean it or not, we all take this as a direct protest against us and many consider these protesters as hostile as those we are fighting against..........................
Another thing, what exactly is the beef? Iraq has already used illegal/undisclosed weaponry, set their own oil fields on fire, and threatened all western civilization (US/UK and anyone with them) with death by land, sea or air. The coalition has NOT hit any civilian areas and has in fact taken great pain NOT to! Can you not see that this conflict could well be settled already if indiscriminate bombing had taken place? Also, what of the US Iraqis and those in country whom are cheering our liberation of Iraq? One last thing, I am retired USMC and have a lot of freinds and family active in various US military wings..................I can tell you this, like it/mean it or not, we all take this as a direct protest against us and many consider these protesters as hostile as those we are fighting against..........................
The average war protester are either punks or anti-bush. Take Sheryl Crow. Bosnia US acts without UN she is out on USO tours for the troops. Iraq and she is all the sudden anti-war.
Originally posted by: ToBeMe
I can tell you this, like it/mean it or not, we all take this as a direct protest against us and many consider these protesters as hostile as those we are fighting against..........................
They don't care. That's what sucks about this whole anti-war, "I'm not supporting the troops" mentality. They obviously aren't bright enough to realize that the people that they are degrading (our armed services men and women) are the people that are responsible for protecting their right to protest peacefully.
Maybe they'd all rather live in Iraq, instead of the US.
Originally posted by: fuzzy bee
Originally posted by: ToBeMe
I can tell you this, like it/mean it or not, we all take this as a direct protest against us and many consider these protesters as hostile as those we are fighting against..........................
They don't care. That's what sucks about this whole anti-war, "I'm not supporting the troops" mentality. They obviously aren't bright enough to realize that the people that they are degrading (our armed services men and women) are the people that are responsible for protecting their right to protest peacefully.
Maybe they'd all rather live in Iraq, instead of the US.
I know..........
That's what's so sad, but, they damn sure will want and demand our service if it concerns them or serves their purpose! How very sad for these people..........................
I'm a teetotaler but I KNOW French wine is good. I love cheese . . . and few cheeses compare with the best fromage. Neither has any bearing on my ability to criticize French or American foreign policy. The Sofitel Hotel which caters to American tastes has NO responsibility for the policy set by Paris. Crepes are not less palatable b/c Chirac is a bit of a poo poo head. Alas, the ignorant American population (including its elected representatives) have assailed all things French for the actions of their President.
Let's be honest, we would NOT have secured a second resolution authorizing invasion in March. We claim 40 in the coalition of the willing and Ari had the gall to claim 1.8B people in support. With the notable exception of the US population and Israel, EVERY coalition member's citizenry broadly oppose this war. It is a flat out lie to imply broad support exists if you doubt it ask this question . . . if France invades a country with meager support from an ally . . . with the stated goal of securing the peace . . . how many Americans would support the action.
The erudite would realize you were talking about the Ivory Coast . . . the typical American (which now supports the war) has no clue.
I agree that the Sofitel hotel has nothing to do with french policy, with that said, would you agree that the local businesses in San Francisco have nothing to do with this war? They are the ones suffereing by these protests.
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
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BaliBabyDoc - My wife and I are wine drinkers and drink a fair amount of French wine (I'm guessing 30-50 bottles a year). I'm not buying any until I see a change in the attitude of the French government. The wine growers are are important lobby in France and this is my way of putting pressure on the French government and reminding the French that there are consequences for actively working against your allies.
As for the protestors, I support their right to protest. If they break the law while protesting, they should be arrested. With the heightened security alert in place, they are doing more than just disrupting downtown traffic and businesses, they are drawing police and other resources away from what should be their main job of protecting the general public.
Michael
As for the protestors, I support their right to protest. If they break the law while protesting, they should be arrested. With the heightened security alert in place, they are doing more than just disrupting downtown traffic and businesses, they are drawing police and other resources away from what should be their main job of protecting the general public.
Michael
Let me pose this question then.........................what will you and those protesters say when quantities of WMD are found to be buried deep in underground bunkers???? You actually think Blix would have ever discovered where Saddam was hiding it? I firmly believe the protesters and countries which oppose this will all end up with egg on their face after all is said and done...................yea, Saddam is a real upright guy....................already using weapons he enfatically stated he did not have and setting fire to oil rigs he stated he would never do................
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