Official AMD Ryzen Benchmarks, Reviews, Prices, and Discussion

[DrMrLordX]

So I found one point so far where I can get fps to drop below 60 in FO4 with my prior settings, and that's Trinity Tower. I'll try to take some footage of that and Boston Common later.

 

[USER8000]

I was talking about better optimisation,look at the performance increase with Rise of the Tombraider with the new updates:

https://www.eteknix.com/amd-ryzen-rotr-patch/

To add to that here are some memory benchmarks for FO4 on a Ryzen 1600:
https://www.purepc.pl/pamieci_ram/j..._amd_ryzen_5_test_ddr4_21333200_mhz?page=0,13

Looking at that,if you were running 3466MHZ DDR4,it could easily give you a 15% improvement in minimum framerates over 2400MHZ DDR4.

 

[USER8000]

So I found one point so far where I can get fps to drop below 60 in FO4 with my prior settings, and that's Trinity Tower. I'll try to take some footage of that and Boston Common later.

In a normal playthrough its usually fine - the engine has physics issues over 60FPS anyway and I know people running it even on FX CPUs and they seem fine enough with the performance(even if its not the best) for the most part and interestingly enough the Piledriver CPUs are much faster than the old Phenom II.

That test is with the Intel systems running 2400MHZ DDR4 and the Ryzen systems running 2666MHZ DDR4.

Performance of Ryzen is broadly in line with Sandy Bridge,Ivy Bridge and Haswell Core i7 CPUs at stock.

That is a launch review running slower RAM,so with faster RAM,etc constant 60FPS should be doable.

The issue is like I mentioned if you start modding the game,and start building large settlements,especially if you expand past the normal settlement population caps which quite a few settlement mods can do and some places you can build like past 20 stories high,and then when you start adding all the manufacturing based stuff,etc.

There are also mods which change the population dynamics of the map(can add more varied spawns and faction patrols,increase spawn rates and numbers,etc) and so on. The engine starts to have issues in that case,and this is touched on in what HardOCP saw,especially if the settlement is quite big - some places are much worse than others for building too. What happens is you start to see quite low minimums at certain points.My current save is at 400 hours so far(need to check). What I noticed is that even though it shows 8 threads being used it seems to hog two of them much more than the others.

Its what you see in plenty of other reviews where FPS is uncapped - maintaining 60FPS through a normal playthrough should be easy enough to do especially if you are walking about. I run a very heavily modded game and maintained 50 to 60FPS for the most part with a Core i7 3770 at 2560X1440,but its the larger settlements where the performance is the biggest issue,and it is also where having an SSD to run the game off is really noticeable. The game tends to stream data off drives at a continuous rate,and HDDs can introduce noticeable lag.

You need to understand how old the engine is and how long its favoured Intel - the Creation engine was introduced with Skyrim and Bethesda could not be bothered to remove X87 instructions from it(it shows its Gamebryo lineage from the early 1990s) and it meant relatively worse performance on AMD CPUs(but hurt Intel CPUs too) - why do you think SuperPi ran so well on Intel CPUs. Games had moved over to SSE type instructions for years yet Bethesda is so bad at optimisation they stuck with it,and the community got fed up and made Skyboost:

http://www.dev-c.com/skyrim/skyboost/

Ages later Bethesda introduced a patch moving over from X87 to more modern instruction sets.

Even AdoredTV tested Fallout4 and basically saw the same - what is needed is for Bethesda to optimise better for newer AMD CPUs.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The issue is like I mentioned if you start modding the game,and start building large settlements,especially if you expand past the normal settlement population caps which quite a few settlement mods can do and some places you can build like past 20 stories high,and then when you start adding all the manufacturing based stuff,etc.

I am aware of that . . . I think someone else here (or was it you?) basically said the game couldn't run worth a darn on Ryzen, couldn't maintain 60 fps, etc. Which is basically not true. Mods have always slowed down old game engines. That won't change.

Bethsoft DOES need to upgrade their game engine. I agree there.

 

[USER8000]

I am aware of that . . . I think someone else here (or was it you?) basically said the game couldn't run worth a darn on Ryzen, couldn't maintain 60 fps, etc. Which is basically not true. Mods have always slowed down old game engines. That won't change.

Bethsoft DOES need to upgrade their game engine. I agree there.

It wasn't me who said it wouldn't maintain 60FPS in a normal game,I have only mentioned the issues if you start modding it and start getting into building large settlements that framerates can have issues because even a Skylake or Kaby Lake system will not be able to do so(even the HardOCP link showed that). I am running the game on an ancient Core i7 3770 and when non-modded,I only really saw any noticeable drops around the odd settlement I built and the odd area around the centre of the city - I think that area around Trinity Tower has a whole load of supermutants and Gunners around there IIRC,and its really densely populated. Plus when you look at the comparison videos even if Intel has 90FPS and AMD has 80FPS it means nothing since over 60FPS the physics go weird - it was only ever useful for relative comparisons in certain situations.

Even with the settlements,a number should still maintain 60FPS fine on Ryzen like The Castle(even at maximum population) for example.

Also TBH it kind of annoyed me Bethesda has kept on using the same old engine - on one hand I am impressed at what they have gotten out of it,but OTH its annoying that they made they biggest and most densely populated Fallout game on such an old engine. I almost thought of getting a Kaby Lake Core i7 due to the game,but when I can get a Ryzen 5 1600 including a cooler for just over £190 and the Core i7 7700K is £320 plus the cost of the cooler,Intel can do one as I am not upgrading for just one game and I know for every other game I have Ryzen will be a decent upgrade.

What I do hope is because Bethesda and AMD have a new partnership,that maybe when Fallout 4 is next updated(Fallout 4 VR update??),maybe Bethesda will pop some improvements in - after all Rise of the Tombraider had a lovely big performance bump as it skewed so many reviews towards Intel.

Edit to post.

I have done some Ryzen 5 1600 and 1400 builds for friends but none of them play Fallout 4,but they run games like Overwatch where it performs really nicely even compared to the Skylake CPUs some other friends have.

 

[Atari2600]

Noticed this little occurrence, was wondering the cause.

A couple of months back, pcspecialist were offering Ryzen with 2133 & 2400 MHz RAM.

Eventually that went up to 2666 and 3000 MHz last month.

At the start of June, it was pulled back to.... 2133 only.

What gives?

Is there still a bios/memory problem? Or are Intel up to their old shenanigans?



https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?53124-AMD-ryzen/page7

 

[Malogeek]

Is there still a bios/memory problem? Or are Intel up to their old shenanigans?

RAM support is better than ever. 1.0.0.6 final BIOS have gone out for most boards and far more users are able to hit 3000+

Start of June.... soon before Skylake launch?

 

[Atari2600]

RAM support is better than ever. 1.0.0.6 final BIOS have gone out for most boards and far more users are able to hit 3000+

Start of June.... soon before Skylake launch?

Hmmm.

Given its not an availability problem (their Intel builds are available with much higher spec memory), and bios support is improved.....

does anyone have any other possible reasons before accusing Intel of (once again engaging in) bribery?

 

[dark zero]

Noticed this little occurrence, was wondering the cause.

A couple of months back, pcspecialist were offering Ryzen with 2133 & 2400 MHz RAM.

Eventually that went up to 2666 and 3000 MHz last month.

At the start of June, it was pulled back to.... 2133 only.

What gives?

Is there still a bios/memory problem? Or are Intel up to their old shenanigans?



https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?53124-AMD-ryzen/page7

RAM stock shortage issues. Is happening a lot lately... Higher speed RAMs are harder to find.

And that are affecting both companies (Intel and AMD)

 

[Atari2600]

RAM stock shortage issues. Is happening a lot lately... Higher speed RAMs are harder to find.

But you can buy Intel systems with the higher speed RAM....?

 

[richierich1212]

LANOC has a brief review of the Gigabyte AB350N Gaming WiFi ITX motherboard that will be released shortly

 

[ub4ty]

So, the alienware PC with threadripper is officially releasing on July 27th.
Is it safe to say that threadripper will debut before this? I can't imagine it not before an OEM starts selling it.
I'm on standby for a purchase until threadripper is officially detailed, released, and priced along with mobo pricing and some reviews. So I really wish AMD would get on with it already. Vega comes out at Siggraph July 30-aug 3rd. So, I think this adds further strength to them detailing threadripper before then.

GET on with it AMD !

 

[Topweasel]

So, the alienware PC with threadripper is officially releasing on July 27th.
Is it safe to say that threadripper will debut before this? I can't imagine it not before an OEM starts selling it.
I'm on standby for a purchase until threadripper is officially detailed, released, and priced along with mobo pricing and some reviews. So I really wish AMD would get on with it already. Vega comes out at Siggraph July 30-aug 3rd. So, I think this adds further strength to them detailing threadripper before then.

GET on with it AMD !

Nope ThreadRipper is in August with Dell launching first in July, then Retail in August, then other OEMs next year.

 

[Pick2]

I think I saw someone somewhere post that the alienware PC with threadripper would be ready for preorder on July 27th.
I did not say this ... I was not here. (Dune)

 

[ub4ty]

Nope ThreadRipper is in August with Dell launching first in July, then Retail in August, then other OEMs next year.

So, AMD is going to allow an OEM to launch their groundbreaking HEDT processor before they officially detail it themselves? Sounds like an epic fail to me both from an OEM standpoint and for AMD. Pre-order Launch for a product that isn't even detailed or officially released through an OEM.. Is this what they did with Vega through Apple's exclusive licensing too? The difference being that Alienware is a low yield enthusiast platform vs. a mainstream product like Apple. A good way to put a sour taste in the community that is likely to buy your product.

I will be watching this closely as this will keep my highly cautioned from considerations of plunking down cash for such a pricey platform. If that's the way they go about things, I'd much rather spend pennies on testing out their ryzen platform while the HEDT gets the kinks worked out of it across a year or two, and at a later time spend dollars.

They should know better about making official, timely, and full launches based on how this Vega foolishness has gone down.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I will be watching this closely as this will keep my highly cautioned from considerations of plunking down cash for such a pricey platform. If that's the way they go about things, I'd much rather spend pennies on testing out their ryzen platform while the HEDT gets the kinks worked out of it across a year or two, and at a later time spend dollars.

This Ryzen "testing" or "beta platform" nonsense is way overblown. I've been running Ryzen since literally day 1, and so far the platform has been rock solid, even with so-called beta UEFI. Not a single crash, lockup or other funny business since March. That is pretty impressive for a brand new platform.

The trouble comes from memory compatibility, which has been a disaster. But this is only when running out of spec or OC memory. If you keep to stock frequencies, for single/double ranked DIMMs, DIMMs per channel and so on as specified by AMD, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Ryzen.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Hell I had DDR4-3200 running on the first day I built this thing. Timings weren't great but it worked.

 

[ub4ty]

This Ryzen "testing" or "beta platform" nonsense is way overblown. I've been running Ryzen since literally day 1, and so far the platform has been rock solid, even with so-called beta UEFI. Not a single crash, lockup or other funny business since March. That is pretty impressive for a brand new platform.

The trouble comes from memory compatibility, which has been a disaster. But this is only when running out of spec or OC memory. If you keep to stock frequencies, for single/double ranked DIMMs, DIMMs per channel and so on as specified by AMD, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Ryzen.

I'm a developer who has no overhead room for issues like this in my dev environment or playing kernel lottery games whereby I am restricted by other software packages :
https://community.amd.com/thread/215773?start=120&tstart=0

There have been various issues facing development environments and non-windows platforms that have nothing to do w/ OCing or out of spec memory. I am speaking about highly technical issues that likely never end up being triggered by normal users. I'd much rather a small investment in the platform via Ryzen than dropping serious coin on Threadripper only to be faced with unexpected problems. The way that these products are being launched gives me reduced confidence. Launching something as ground breaking as your first HEDT platform through an OEM without doing an official and detailed release yourself and making the product available for detailed reviews strikes me as quite odd.

 

[tamz_msc]

I'm a developer who has no overhead room for issues like this in my dev environment or playing kernel lottery games whereby I am restricted by other software packages :
https://community.amd.com/thread/215773?start=120&tstart=0

There have been various issues facing development environments and non-windows platforms that have nothing to do w/ OCing or out of spec memory. I am speaking about highly technical issues that likely never end up being triggered by normal users. I'd much rather a small investment in the platform via Ryzen than dropping serious coin on Threadripper only to be faced with unexpected problems. The way that these products are being launched gives em zero confidence. Launching something as ground breaking as your first HEDT platform through an OEM without doing an official and detailed release yourself and making the product available for detailed reviews doesn't give me the kind of confidence I'm looking for.

That gcc segmentation fault issue still hasn't been pinned on the CPU itself. You should be fine as long as you have up to date tools and the newest kernels.

 

[ub4ty]

That gcc segmentation fault issue still hasn't been pinned on the CPU itself. You should be fine as long as you have up to date tools and the newest kernels.

Do you understand the nature of development environments in which you don't have the luxury of goofing around with kernel versions/software version and dedicating resources to try to track down the root cause of an issue like this? Also, complicated development environments are restricted and heavily locked down as to what software versions are compatible with others. The last thing you want is hardware forcing you to pick and choose what kernel version to run that is incompatible with all of your other software tools. There are still highly technical issues/bugs being worked out. This is only one of them. Not knowing whether its the CPU itself, bios, firmware, bios setting, kernel, software version, cli argument (is the problem).

In any event, given the nature of the releases from all the manufacturers in this space, I am not going near any new hardware that hasn't been thoroughly benchmarked and tested by various groups for this very reason. So, it will be a surprise if AMD has an OEM release thread-ripper before they actually do a detailed release themselves along with independent benchmarks/test. The Vega FE launch is a clear indication of how ugly things can get when a manufacturer doesn't do a controlled and detailed launch of a product.

At the scale that these hardware platforms are reaching, you have far more interested parties than gamers who pre-order Alienware PCs based on a product that hasn't be thoroughly detailed. *Here's to hoping AMD actually does an official launch/release/detailing of threadripper before July 27th.

 

[Veradun]

Do you understand the nature of development environments in which you don't have the luxury of goofing around with kernel versions/software version and dedicating resources to try to track down the root cause of an issue like this? Also, complicated development environments are restricted and heavily locked down as to what software versions are compatible with others. The last thing you want is hardware forcing you to pick and choose what kernel version to run that is incompatible with all of your other software tools. There are still highly technical issues/bugs being worked out. This is only one of them. Not knowing whether its the CPU itself, bios, firmware, bios setting, kernel, software version, cli argument (is the problem).

In any event, given the nature of the releases from all the manufacturers in this space, I am not going near any new hardware that hasn't been thoroughly benchmarked and tested by various groups for this very reason. So, it will be a surprise if AMD has an OEM release thread-ripper before they actually do a detailed release themselves along with independent benchmarks/test. The Vega FE launch is a clear indication of how ugly things can get when a manufacturer doesn't do a controlled and detailed launch of a product.

Since you are speaking about business I guess you are referring to EPYC and Ryzen PRO, right?

 

[ub4ty]

Since you are speaking about business I guess you are referring to EPYC and Ryzen PRO, right?

What makes you think business related task are restricted to EPYC/Ryzen PRO and what makes you think a potential micro-op cache issue that's present on a CCX that is used on all of their processors somehow disappears because its called EPYC or PRO? Have you been following the "professional" Vega FE launch? I catch the whiff of your remark.

 

[tamz_msc]

Do you understand the nature of development environments in which you don't have the luxury of goofing around with kernel versions/software version and dedicating resources to try to track down the root cause of an issue like this? Also, complicated development environments are restricted and heavily locked down as to what software versions are compatible with others. The last thing you want is hardware forcing you to pick and choose what kernel version to run that is incompatible with all of your other software tools. There are still highly technical issues/bugs being worked out. This is only one of them. Not knowing whether its the CPU itself, bios, firmware, bios setting, kernel, software version, cli argument (is the problem).

In any event, given the nature of the releases from all the manufacturers in this space, I am not going near any new hardware that hasn't been thoroughly benchmarked and tested by various groups for this very reason. So, it will be a surprise if AMD has an OEM release thread-ripper before they actually do a detailed release themselves along with independent benchmarks/test. The Vega FE launch is a clear indication of how ugly things can get when a manufacturer doesn't do a controlled and detailed launch of a product.

At the scale that these hardware platforms are reaching, you have far more interested parties than gamers who pre-order Alienware PCs based on a product that hasn't be thoroughly detailed. *Here's to hoping AMD actually does an official launch/release/detailing of threadripper before July 27th.

I don't understand how you can expect corrections for the latest errata that are usually released with the latest kernels to be backported to older versions. If you had followed the Gentoo forums which first reported this issue, a large number of people have identified that an older version of binutils might be the culprit. Therefore, any point in the toolchain might have an issue, and must be exhaustively ruled out before coming to the conclusion that it's a CPU bug.

 

[Veradun]

What makes you think business related task are restricted to EPYC/Ryzen PRO and what makes you think a potential micro-op cache issue that's present on a CCX that is used on all of their processors somehow disappears because its called EPYC or PRO? Have you been following the "professional" Vega FE launch? I catch the whiff of your remark.

Validation

 

[ub4ty]

Validation

Yeah, final validation being known in business as a process that usually consists of months if not years of testing, debugging, and rounds of fixes from the manufacturer before something is ever put into actual production environments. Anyone who actually works in tech or enterprise would know of this process and understand what validation truly means for new (professional) equipment.

Various business entities have different levels of resources to dedicate to such true validation tasks thus why proven companies and products capture business instead. But i guess (((validation))) means something else to people outside these environments. I guess that just means (Pro) slapped in front of a micro-architecture. Cute bants. However, it's not what I came here for.