official 9-11 thread

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

uuuum...they haven't covered it up. Lol. Why do you think it's talked about by peoples and nations around the globe? If it were covered up we would all be convinced. Bridges collapse, buildings burn down and jets crash. Very few of the terrible tragedies that happen in our nation result in any "conspiracy theory" much less such a high level of dispute.

The hundreds of people that would have known about and been involved with such a thing have never come forward. Not a single one. So no, it HAS been covered up.

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

uuuum...they haven't covered it up. Lol. Why do you think it's talked about by peoples and nations around the globe? If it were covered up we would all be convinced. Bridges collapse, buildings burn down and jets crash. Very few of the terrible tragedies that happen in our nation result in any "conspiracy theory" much less such a high level of dispute.

The hundreds of people that would have known about and been involved with such a thing have never come forward. Not a single one. So no, it HAS been covered up.

We are not talking about any definitive theory here. At the very least we are considering prior knowledge. This might involve a handful of people.
As as for this idea that people would just come forward...have you ever seen a serial killer come forward and admit his guilt? No they admit guilt only after they are caught. How much more so would this be true in a scenario where thousands were murdered and a war was fought over this event?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Well gee, why don't we just use our brains and get the actual facts. According to NTSB incident number DCA00MA005 the ATC attempted to contact the flight at 0933 EDT. At 0952 CDT a USAF plan intercepted the aircraft. Now that flight was from a test squadron and from what I can tell (the NTSB report is unclear and I can find no reliable source) that flight was *diverted* to intercept the plan, NOT scrambled with a combat loadout. The SECOND intercept was when a pair of Oaklahoma Air National Guard aircraft intercepted at 1113 CDT. So the ACTUAL response time was either 81 minutes or more likely 100 minutes).

So why don't you cite REAL sources and not a bunch of bullshit you found on the Internet?

You left out an important fact.

Payne's plane left Orlando and was flying northwest, crashed in South Dakota.

The F-16 that did the first intercept was flying out of Eglin Air Force Base Florida which is in an almost direct line between Orlando and South Dakota. In other words, Payne's plane flew right over the AF base which is what allowed such a quick intercept.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

The Manhatten Project (the development of the atomic bomb) was worked on by thousands of people and no one in the public knew about it until after we dropped it on Japan.

There is a difference between asking people to keep a weapon plan secret and asking people to get involved in a conspiracy that killed 3000 innocent Americans.

 

[sprok]

GWB couldn't be behind 9/11 because it actually WORKED.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

uuuum...they haven't covered it up. Lol. Why do you think it's talked about by peoples and nations around the globe? If it were covered up we would all be convinced. Bridges collapse, buildings burn down and jets crash. Very few of the terrible tragedies that happen in our nation result in any "conspiracy theory" much less such a high level of dispute.

The hundreds of people that would have known about and been involved with such a thing have never come forward. Not a single one. So no, it HAS been covered up.

We are not talking about any definitive theory here. At the very least we are considering prior knowledge. This might involve a handful of people.
As as for this idea that people would just come forward...have you ever seen a serial killer come forward and admit his guilt? No they admit guilt only after they are caught. How much more so would this be true in a scenario where thousands were murdered and a war was fought over this event?

Um, no. You made the specific claim that the buildings fell because of a controlled demolition. Even Wikipedia has complete articles on this. The fact is that if there was a controlled demolition hundreds of people would have been involved (prepping a building for demolition takes a LOT of work) directly or indirectly. The fact is that NONE of them have ever come out. Therefore the likelyhood of this having happened is extremely low.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Well gee, why don't we just use our brains and get the actual facts. According to NTSB incident number DCA00MA005 the ATC attempted to contact the flight at 0933 EDT. At 0952 CDT a USAF plan intercepted the aircraft. Now that flight was from a test squadron and from what I can tell (the NTSB report is unclear and I can find no reliable source) that flight was *diverted* to intercept the plan, NOT scrambled with a combat loadout. The SECOND intercept was when a pair of Oaklahoma Air National Guard aircraft intercepted at 1113 CDT. So the ACTUAL response time was either 81 minutes or more likely 100 minutes).

So why don't you cite REAL sources and not a bunch of bullshit you found on the Internet?

You left out an important fact.

Payne's plane left Orlando and was flying northwest, crashed in South Dakota.

The F-16 that did the first intercept was flying out of Eglin Air Force Base Florida which is in an almost direct line between Orlando and South Dakota. In other words, Payne's plane flew right over the AF base which is what allowed such a quick intercept.

Thanks for that info. I should have noticed that fact since the second intercept was done so quickly as well (I am pretty sure the second intercept was scrambled alert aircraft...not sure about the first).

 

[HeXploiT]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: Perry404

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

uuuum...they haven't covered it up. Lol. Why do you think it's talked about by peoples and nations around the globe? If it were covered up we would all be convinced. Bridges collapse, buildings burn down and jets crash. Very few of the terrible tragedies that happen in our nation result in any "conspiracy theory" much less such a high level of dispute.

The hundreds of people that would have known about and been involved with such a thing have never come forward. Not a single one. So no, it HAS been covered up.

We are not talking about any definitive theory here. At the very least we are considering prior knowledge. This might involve a handful of people.
As as for this idea that people would just come forward...have you ever seen a serial killer come forward and admit his guilt? No they admit guilt only after they are caught. How much more so would this be true in a scenario where thousands were murdered and a war was fought over this event?

Um, no. You made the specific claim that the buildings fell because of a controlled demolition. Even Wikipedia has complete articles on this. The fact is that if there was a controlled demolition hundreds of people would have been involved (prepping a building for demolition takes a LOT of work) directly or indirectly. The fact is that NONE of them have ever come out. Therefore the likelyhood of this having happened is extremely low.

No I did not make a claim I'm asking a question and trying to form a conclusion. You want to skip right over the question without answering it and go right to declaring what you believe to be true.
Hundreds of people were involved in the night of the long knives.
Hundreds of people were involved in the burning of Rome under Nero.
Secrets can be kept.
No it would not take hundreds of people to prep. 20 people would be more than enough. yes the likelihood is low. isn't this point obvious?
And what does all this have to do with the fact that those beams are cut?

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: loki8481
when the US government can't cover up a blow job in the oval office or black ops prisons in eastern europe, I find it hard to believe they could cover up a conspiracy of that magnitude.

The Manhatten Project (the development of the atomic bomb) was worked on by thousands of people and no one in the public knew about it until after we dropped it on Japan.

There is a difference between asking people to keep a weapon plan secret and asking people to get involved in a conspiracy that killed 3000 innocent Americans.

You're assuming that everyone who worked on the atomic bomb knew that they were working on something that would kill hundreds of thousands of people. Through compartmentalization, you have different teams of people working on different parts, so they aren't all going to see the big picture of what's being developed. Only the 1% at the top (like a pyramid structure) are going to know.

In the case of 9/11, where the military are running drills which included a scenario where the WTC would be attacked by a hijacked airliner, those who were in charge would have bootlegged a real operation into the drill, and take the drill live.

 

[Brovane]

Originally posted by: sprok
GWB couldn't be behind 9/11 because it actually WORKED.

Absolutely. There is no way that the current administration could have pulled off 9/11.

 

[ProfJohn]

To add to the 9-11 intercept issue.

Part of the problem is that no one called for an intercept until it was too late.

9-11 report
The first phone call to NORAD was at 8:37, the first tower was hit at 8:46. A whole 9 minutes later. That was the MOST time the military had between notice of the hijacking and impact. The first jets didn't even leave the ground until 8:53AM. Only 16 minutes after the first phone call.

Furthermore, the first sign of trouble with Flight 11 was at 8:14 AM when the didn't answer a normal radio call, it wasn't until 8:21 that the plane started to act strange and turn of its transponder. So we have a window of 25 minutes between the first sing of trouble and the plane hitting the tower.

Now, to the conspiracy theory.
In order for your conspiracy theory that the military did nothing on 9-11 you would need evidence that the military was notified about the hijackings and took a very slow response time. But as I just showed the military was given virtually no time to do anything. Which means the traffic controllers would have had to been in on the conspiracy and been told to delay calling the military as long as possible.

Read though the report linked about and you will learn that the four planes were in four different air traffic control districts at the time of their hijackings. This means a LOT of people would have been needed to ensure that all four areas were involved in this conspiracy.

Furthermore! United Airlines 93 was 42 minutes late leaving the airport and it was not hijacked until 9:28 FAR later than would have been expect had the plane left on time. And the plane had flew much longer than any of the others before the hijacking which means a carefully laid out plan would have had the plane still in the New York air traffic center at the time of hijack and not the Cleveland center as it actually happened.

So now either admit that your 'intercept conspiracy' is BS or explain away everything I just posted.

 

[Brovane]

So if 9/11 was a inside job. Were the the twin towers brought down in a controlled demolition? Somebody was able to rig both towers for a controlled demolition without anybody noticing?

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Perry404
No I did not make a claim I'm asking a question and trying to form a conclusion. You want to skip right over the question without answering it and go right to declaring what you believe to be true.
Hundreds of people were involved in the night of the long knives.
Hundreds of people were involved in the burning of Rome under Nero.
Secrets can be kept.
No it would not take hundreds of people to prep. 20 people would be more than enough. yes the likelihood is low. isn't this point obvious?
And what does all this have to do with the fact that those beams are cut?

The implication of your question (cut beams) was that there was a controlled demolition. Now to do the controlled demolition buildings the size of WTCs 1, 2, and 7 you would need at LEAST 75 people on the ground and at least a week or two to prep the site. Alternately you can have far more people and do it much more quickly. Regardless, you are looking at at least a hundred including the decision makers. Even if you had the people and could keep those involved from talking you still have the MAJOR problem of concealing the demolitions work. I won't explain what is involved in demolishing a building. The Discovery Channel has a number of pieces on it and there are other good resources for it.

Secrets CAN be kept, but the chance that you could keep secret something involving so many people that was an act that essentially every person in this country would absolutely find wrong is microscopic. The Manhattan Project was kept secret because those involved knew they had to keep it secret because it was something that was a defense project and everyone involved (more or less) agreed with it. Note that by "involved" I mean those that knew the purpose of the project. Everyone involved in the supposed controlled demolition would have known they were killing American civilians.

Again, if you are going to challenge the commonly held belief you need to make a specific claim backed with evidence. You can't just say that the beams were cut and then ignore everything else. If the beams were cut in order to bring down the buildings (the only reasonably likely purpose in cutting them) then it was a controlled demolition. A controlled demolition involves a large number of people and prep work. Also by supporting the claim of a controlled demolition you are indirectly disputing the idea that the planes would have brought the buildings down (and if the planes would not have brought them down and you needed to do blow it up then why bother with planes at all?).

So once again, while it IS theoretically possible that the US government managed to rig multiple buildings to come down, hide ALL the evidence but a few beams, and then fly aircraft into them to cover up the work of the ground crews, the chance of this is TINY if for no other reason than that there are a hundred ways to accomplish the same thing without the complexity and room for error.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Perry404
No I did not make a claim I'm asking a question and trying to form a conclusion. You want to skip right over the question without answering it and go right to declaring what you believe to be true.
Hundreds of people were involved in the night of the long knives.
Hundreds of people were involved in the burning of Rome under Nero.
Secrets can be kept.
No it would not take hundreds of people to prep. 20 people would be more than enough. yes the likelihood is low. isn't this point obvious?
And what does all this have to do with the fact that those beams are cut?

That is BS Perry.

You already formed the conclusion that 9-11 was a conspiracy and now you are trying to prove your theory.

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: sprok
GWB couldn't be behind 9/11 because it actually WORKED.

I don't think GWB was involved in 9/11 either, I mean if you were going to charge someone with an operation as provactive as 9/11, GWB is the last person you'd want in charge. To an extent you wouldn't want to tell Cheney too much either with his 4 heart attacks, and his wife yakking at him all the time, as it would be too risky to have an administrative coup when the person in charge collapses from heart failure in the middle of it.

Let's say the 9/11 official story is correct, why weren't Saudi Arabia and the Pakistani ISI held to account for their involvement? Why were the Bin Laden family allowed to fly home without being interrogated? If it were a matter of incompetence, how come nobody was court marshalled, fired, or punished? George Tenet, CIA director, even received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2004, yet his incompetence on 9/11 went unpunished.

 

[1prophet]

I see Hollywood and television has brainwashed the general public, if Arnold, Stallone,or Bruce Willis can't save us it's because of some government conspiracy since America is invincible.

Just like the mother that can't come to terms that her son has just been caught by the cops in his criminal activities because he is a good boy so the police must have conspired against him likewise the 9/11 conspiracists can't come to terms that the USA was sucker punched by a bunch of guys with boxcutters that used openness, lax security, naivity, and political correctness against us so it must have been a conspiracy.

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: Jiggz

Originally posted by: event8horizon
was 9-11 the work of AQ or someone else!!!! if u think AQ, then define AQ and its orgins and members not leaving out the lead hijacker (atta), ali mohammed, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (MI6), and the big fish Lieutenant General Mahmoud Ahmad of the ISI since he sent atta 100,000 through saeed sheik. that just bypassed the official AQ if u didnt notice. and remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he was with saeed sheik (mi6) when one of them murdered daniel pearl. so who were they taking orders from....OBL or the General or someone else!! remember daniel pearl was investigating the connection between the ISI and AQ.

from the other perspective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossiga
Francesco Cossiga - italian ex prez that dealt with intel agencies said-
From circles around Palazzo Chigi, nerve centre of direction of Italian intelligence, it is noted that the non-authenticity of the video is testified from the fact that Osama bin Laden in it 'confessed' that Al Qaeda would have been the author of the attack of the 11 September to the Twin Towers in New York, while all of the democratic circles of America and of Europe, with in the forefront those of the Italian centre-left, now know well that the disastrous attack was planned and realized by the American CIA and Mossad with the help of the Zionist world to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and to persuade the Western powers to intervene in Iraq and Afghanistan. For this, no word of solidarity arrived to Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the author of the brilliant falsification, neither from the Quirinale, nor from Palazzo Chigi, nor from representatives of the centre-left!

or the fox news report that got deleted about the israeli spy ring-

http://video.google.com/videop...TSJ4jkrQKlh7CKCg&hl=en

or this memorandum detailing the israeli's 9-11----

http://www.antiwar.com/rep2/Me...lectCommitteesbold.pdf

****notice the areas where the "hijackers" lived in relation to the "israeli art students". its toward the back the pdf file.


and now for 9-11

1. the planes- hijacked or remote controlled??

2. wtc towers- plane crash - fire - collapse or plane crash - thermite/thermate - collapse??

3. pentagon- plane crash or cruise missile

4. flight 93- crashed in field or shot down??

5. anthrax (part of 9-11 or not) who did it. it looks like it was from one of our own labs.

and the 9-11 commission report.......a coverup?????

It's almost beyond comprehension (depending whose side you're on) to even consider a conspiracy theory behind the 9-11 incident! Unless of course you are an avid viewer of the The View and a follower of Roseanne!

You can take all the pictures you want to support your "Con Theory", photoshop them and print them online, but for those of us who were there and who actually saw the carnage, it's nothing short of war! I also don't doubt you actually revel in spreading this unsupported con-theory just like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revels in spreading unsupported claim that the Holocaust and 9-11 never actually happened. YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY AN UN-AMERICAN!

ummmmm.....yeahhhh...ok....unamerican.....u got me

 

[ProfJohn]

Yet more information to disprove Perry's hair brain theory.

At 439 feet The J.L. Hudson department store was the tallest building ever imploded (as of 1998) Read this bit about the demotion of the building

CDI?s 12 person loading crew took twenty four days to place 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on columns on nine levels of the complex. Over 36,000 ft of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay elements were installed in CDI?s implosion initiation system, some to create the 36 primary implosion sequence and another 216 micro-delays to keep down the detonation overpressure from the 2,728 lb of explosives which would be detonated during the demolition.

12 people working 24 days to destroy a building less than half the size of one of the tower. And that done in an empty building.

Now imagine the time it would take to rig up two buildings twice that size and do it in a way that NO ONE noticed. Not only did people not notice the building being rigged at the time, but afterwards no one seems to have reported any thing suspicious.

Some how these people got 8000 pounds of explosives into two buildings and rigged it all to blow and not one person saw anything strange??

Ron Paul called and he wants you to remove his name from your sig because you are embarrassing him.

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
I see Hollywood and television has brainwashed the general public, if Arnold, Stallone,or Bruce Willis can't save us it's because of some government conspiracy since America is invincible.

Just like the mother that can't come to terms that her son has just been caught by the cops in his criminal activities because he is a good boy so the police must have conspired against him likewise the 9/11 conspiracists can't come to terms that the USA was sucker punched by a bunch of guys with boxcutters that used openness, lax security, naivity, and political correctness against us so it must have been a conspiracy.

who might "those guys" be???? who was in charge of security???

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: ranmaniac
What about the lack of response from our air defenses?

When the golfer Payne Stewarts's lear jet went off course, it was intercepted by F-16s within 20 minutes and escorted.

Yet 4 airliners are "hijacked" and none of them are intercepted, unless of course you think that Flight 93 might have been shot down, which is a possibility.

Not to mention that the Pentagon has air defense missile batteries, so whatever hit the Pentagon could have been shotdown if it were in fact an aircraft.

Source for Payne Stewart lear jet story:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/991026dmn.orig

Well gee, why don't we just use our brains and get the actual facts. According to NTSB incident number DCA00MA005 the ATC attempted to contact the flight at 0933 EDT. At 0952 CDT a USAF plan intercepted the aircraft. Now that flight was from a test squadron and from what I can tell (the NTSB report is unclear and I can find no reliable source) that flight was *diverted* to intercept the plan, NOT scrambled with a combat loadout. The SECOND intercept was when a pair of Oaklahoma Air National Guard aircraft intercepted at 1113 CDT. So the ACTUAL response time was either 81 minutes or more likely 100 minutes).

So why don't you cite REAL sources and not a bunch of bullshit you found on the Internet?

since u seem schooled in this topic, id like to hear what u think on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Mineta

norman mineta testimony-

There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, 'The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out.' And when it got down to, 'The plane is 10 miles out,' the young man also said to the vice president, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?' Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And...

 

[ProfJohn]

link
Why not print the complete transcript instead of a small part of it?

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

 

[event8horizon]

lets get some more interesting stuff talked about:

9/11 funds came from Pakistan, says FBI

NEW DELHI: India played a key role in providing US authorities the information that funding for the September 11 attacks came from Pakistan. A top FBI counter-terrorism official told the US Senate governmental affairs committee on Thursday that investigators have ?traced the origin of the funding of 9/11 back to financial accounts in Pakistan.??

John S Pistole, deputy assistant director of the FBI?s counter-terrorism division, however, did not specify how those accounts in Pakistan were funded, or the role of Pakistani elements. The Times of India first reported on October 10, 2001 that India told the US that some $100,000 had been wired to the leader of the hijackers, Mahmud Atta, by British-born terrorist Ahmad Saeed Umar Sheikh.

Indian authorities also told the US that the trail led back from Sheikh to the then chief of ISI, Lt Gen Mahmud Ahmad who was subsequently forced to retire by Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf. The FBI had been provided with the details, including Sheikh?s mobile numbers. But Pistole?s testimony is silent on these issues. The FBI has estimated the September 11 attacks cost between $175,000 and $250,000. That money ? which paid for flight training, travel and other expenses ? flowed to the hijackers through associates in Germany and the United Arab Emirates.

Those associates reported to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who managed much of the planning for the attacks from Pakistan, US officials have said. The Bush Administration is being cagey about declassifying 28 secret pages in a recent report on the 9/11 incident which officials say outline connections between Saudi charities, royal family members and terrorism.

US authorities are silent about the role some Pakistanis may have played in the conspiracy. The role of Sheikh and Lt Gen Ahmad has yet to see the light of the day. Sheikh, wanted for kidnapping and terrorist conspiracy in India, has since been sentenced to death in Pakistan for the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.

 

[ProfJohn]

cliffs-- Mineta does not know for sure what the "order" was it could have been an order for a cup of coffee and some donuts for all we know.

You conspiracy people like to take bits of information out of context and then try to pretend that they prove some point of yours. Sad.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

edit: The posters above covered it better

 

[event8horizon]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
link
Why not print the complete transcript instead of a small part of it?

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk,the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

come on man, 50 miles out and the pentagon had NO defense even though a shootdown order was supposedly ordered. that is one of the most important buildings we have.
And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"
i like how hamilton stopped him at this point.... anyway, 10 miles out and he says the order still stands and the airplane is 10 mins away from interception. these guys are the apex of the gov. they know when a figher jet is going to intercept. something isnt lining up. just take a look at the flight path coming into the pentagon. damn, that dude could fly a plane.

so i made bold the "subsequently i found that out". only after everything was said and done did he find out that an order was given......yeah....ok.