Discussion ***Official*** 2024 Stock Market Thread 💰

[repoman0]

Food prices are up 80% in 4 years and my wages have not kept up.

Made up BS numbers don’t help your case.

 

[dullard]

How do you have income if you don't have a job and how are you covering all the bills like property taxes etc?

The common way is to buy things that increase in value. A $20 trip to the movies will be worth $0 next year. But $20 put into a CD will be worth $21 next year*. $20 put into a broad mutual fund is expected to be worth $21 to $22 next year (there is a chance it will be worth less, yes, but wait some time and that gain will eventually be correct). Etc.

Buy property, buy education (only if you are actually going to finish it and use it), buy savings, buy bonds, buy mutual funds (or similar groups of stocks, not individual stocks). Those things go up in value without working.

Limit buying things that go down in value (most vehicles, chasing fads, expensive entertainment, unneeded insurance, emotional spending, subscriptions, paying for convenience, keeping up with your friends/neighbors, YOLO, moving frequently, etc). We should all think of YOLO as "You Only need to Lose Once and then pay for it every second of every day for the rest of your life".

* Like he said, he has savings, so he gets income this way without working.

 

[AdamK47]

Todays word of the day is greedflation.

More and more reports indicate companies (particularly large grocery chains) increased prices under the guise of supply chain issues to pad their profits.

Who would have thought?

 

[FelixDeCat]

Todays word of the day is greedflation.

More and more reports indicate companies (particularly large grocery chains) increased prices under the guise of supply chain issues to pad their profits.

Who would have thought?

Don't forget shrinkflation. Food makers have to hide the 20% annual price increases.

 

[Brainonska511]

You are speaking about society as a whole and he is relating personal experience. I can tell you that my wages have not kept up with inflation either.

My car insurance is up 40% over the last 3 years and my wages have not kept up.

Food prices are up 80% in 4 years and my wages have not kept up.

I have expressed my opinion that we need to tame inflation with higher interest rates, higher income taxes and government austerity. This opinion will not change.

Unfortunately I do not see either party willing to take the steps necessary to bring prices back to reasonable pre-Covid levels of 2020.

Food is not up 80% unless you're door dashing everything.

As for RS, there have been a number of good suggestions made to him in the prior year's stock thread to improve his financial situation like a) stop investing in the shit ESPP plan and b) go invest in some index funds. Something about leading horses to water...

And yes, the chart is showing wages in aggregate by quintiles, and that doesn't always reflect individual situations. But the converse is also true: your individual situations do not mean the economy is all doom and gloom and everyone is suffering as much as you are. Policy makers should be looking at the data (which has generally been good), not what Joe Schmo pundit thinks about his grocery prices in retrospect. And then we should look towards other policies to fill in the gaps and help those that haven't been doing so hot.

I can tell you though, your preferred policies will result in more aggregate suffering, and it's rather amusing that you think you'd somehow come out on top if you got what you wished for.

 

[Brainonska511]

Todays word of the day is greedflation.

More and more reports indicate companies (particularly large grocery chains) increased prices under the guise of supply chain issues to pad their profits.

Who would have thought?

Not surprising companies are taking advantage of the situation to squeeze a few more bucks out. Sadly, it isn't a new phenomenon. I remember in the early 2000s seeing these changes in real time as a grocery cashier. I would bet their market research shows people are more attuned to the price than the size, so better to shrink the packaging a little than to raise the price as costs increase. The inflation from the COVID supply shock just gave them cover to do a little bit of both.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Food is not up 80% unless you're door dashing everything.

As for RS, there have been a number of good suggestions made to him in the prior year's stock thread to improve his financial situation like a) stop investing in the shit ESPP plan and b) go invest in some index funds. Something about leading horses to water...

And yes, the chart is showing wages in aggregate by quintiles, and that doesn't always reflect individual situations. But the converse is also true: your individual situations do not mean the economy is all doom and gloom and everyone is suffering as much as you are. Policy makers should be looking at the data (which has generally been good), not what Joe Schmo pundit thinks about his grocery prices in retrospect. And then we should look towards other policies to fill in the gaps and help those that haven't been doing so hot.

I can tell you though, your preferred policies will result in more aggregate suffering, and it's rather amusing that you think you'd somehow come out on top if you got what you wished for.

We are not going to agree. My grocery bill is up 80% since 2020 and car insurance is just as bad.

It's okay to disagree. I think we need extreme measures to return prices to 2020 levels, you do not. You have adapted and you have the money to not care. Good for you.

I have argued for over 20 years deficit spending is wrong and running up the national debt will drive us to crises.

Prudence and restraint are what we need. Not more inflation.

 

[IronWing]

We are not going to agree. My grocery bill is up 80% since 2020 and car insurance is just as bad.

It's okay to disagree. I think we need extreme measures to return prices to 2020 levels, you do not. You have adapted and you have the money to not care. Good for you.

I have argued for over 20 years deficit spending is wrong and running up the national debt will drive us to crises.

In response, some say that it's okay if one day it will cost $200,000,000 to buy an average home and $50,000 to buy a loaf of bread due to constant dollar devaluation (ie our absurd inflation schemes and uncontrolled growth in the national debt) because we will be paid more. That does not excuse reckless policy.

Prudence and restraint are what we need. Not more inflation.

You could break down and get a job.

 

[Brainonska511]

My grocery bill is up 80% since 2020

That sounds like a skills issue.

I have argued for over 20 years deficit spending is wrong and running up the national debt will drive us to crises.

All your chicken little shrieks have shown nothing has come to pass, like a ZeroHedge scare piece. And all your suggestions always revolve around cutting spending that everyone actually likes, and not raising taxes/building state capacity to cut out leaching consultants and contractors to support the spending everyone likes.

In response, some say that it's okay if one day it will cost $200,000,000 to buy an average home and $50,000 to buy a loaf of bread due to constant dollar devaluation (ie our absurd inflation schemes and uncontrolled growth in the national debt) because we will be paid more. That does not excuse reckless policy.

Your hypothetical using such extremes doesn't make sense and is absurd.

 

[Brainonska511]

Back on the topic of this thread: my index funds are paying out some nice dividends this week and my portfolio is up, across both taxable and retirement accounts. Once again, the diversified index fund strategy is winning in the long run.

 

[dullard]

Once again, the diversified index fund strategy is winning in the long run.

The get rich slowly method. Almost guaranteed to work.

 

[Fenixgoon]

You are speaking about society as a whole and he is relating personal experience. I can tell you that my wages have not kept up with inflation either.

My car insurance is up 40% over the last 3 years and my wages have not kept up.

Food prices are up 80% in 4 years and my wages have not kept up.

I have expressed my opinion that we need to tame inflation with higher interest rates, higher income taxes and government austerity. This opinion will not change.

Unfortunately I do not see either party willing to take the steps necessary to bring prices back to reasonable pre-Covid levels of 2020.

Switching insurance companies (at least in the US) is the best way to keep your rates low.

And if your food prices have doubled, why the hell haven't you found alternatives?

Just like people bitching about eggs...when shit gets expensive, you find an alternative product. You don't stay with the same thing unless there's no other option.

 

[FelixDeCat]

That sounds like a skills issue.



All your chicken little shrieks have shown nothing has come to pass, like a ZeroHedge scare piece. And all your suggestions always revolve around cutting spending that everyone actually likes, and not raising taxes/building state capacity to cut out leaching consultants and contractors to support the spending everyone likes.


Your hypothetical using such extremes doesn't make sense and is absurd.

I guess I'm responding to you for a while. We are different people with different perspectives. Enjoy your Fed induced inflation. Hopefully it wakes you up one day.

In the meantime I will continue my 20+ year crusade against our irresponsible ways before its too late.☠️

 

[Red Squirrel]

I do want to look into index funds just have not spend much time researching them. No idea how to buy them, or which ones to buy etc. I might just go through the bank and have them manage it. I already have my RRSPs through bank so the same company that manages that might do index funds too. I have a bunch of money in there now and it's a managed investment for when I retire. It's no where near enough to pay bills though if I was to stay in this house and even if I move off grid there will still be some costs involved so I'll still want a source of income. Took me like 10 years to get that account to around 40k, 40k is a bit over 1 year worth of bills. Money doesn't go far now days.

The increase in cost of living does make it harder to invest more, as there's not much money left over once the bills come out. I think I will be in a slightly better position next year now that I got a new water heater and furnace, and wood stove is mostly done so will actually use it next year. Should be able to knock like $100 off the gas bill. That's only one bill though, but every little bit helps I guess. Going to add more solar panels as well this summer so might save a bit on hydro, at least in summer. Property taxes is the big one though, that takes out a big chunk of the pay cheque and nothing I can do to lower that other than move off grid, which is my long term goal but still have a lot of work to do before I can do that. I can invest all I want but still need that continuous income (savings is not income) to cover all the bills, which only go up each year.

Also still need to be able to enjoy life a little and buy nice things once in a while. I have not done that in a long time.

As for groceries, in the grand scheme of things I don't find the costs affects me as bad, I find it's mostly junk food that has gone way up in price. Grocery store prices on junk food are basically the same as convenience stores now. So I've greatly cut back on buying any of that. Been cutting back on takeout too, it's crazy how much they charge for delivery now, but they have to, because of the cost of gas. Some places charging like $7-$10 now. Then add tip and HST and you're up to like $40 for a poutine. So yeah, not ordering much anymore.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

It's called retired, what 'Muricans do between workin' and dyin'. Get a little SS, a little pension and so on. Maybe a quick side job for a neighbor. Savings are paying 5% or more which effectively pays the utility bills. Old means no property tax due to a Homestead Exemption.

I could go on and on, but I've covered most of it on other threads that aren't about stocks.

 

[Moonbeam]

I bought some organic golden beets today and broccoli. I just learned you want to damage the broccoli before you eat it and let it sit injured for 90 minutes which was the test time used to get it to release chemicals that are good for you including cancer prevention. I guess violence isn't always bad.

 

[jpiniero]

Food is not up 80%

It absolutely is. Hell, I can give you several examples if you want. You must be living in some serious bubble.

BTW, wage increases at the low end is part of the housing problem in Boston.

 

[repoman0]

It absolutely is. Hell, I can give you several examples if you want. You must be living in some serious bubble.

BTW, wage increases at the low end is part of the housing problem in Boston.

You have no idea what you are talking about as usual.

 

[Brainonska511]

It absolutely is. Hell, I can give you several examples if you want. You must be living in some serious bubble.

BTW, wage increases at the low end is part of the housing problem in Boston.

Sounds like a skills issue.

It most definitely is not up 80%. In fact, we have data that can tell us how much the increases are and we don't have to rely on anecdotes.

Food Price Outlook - Summary Findings | Economic Research Service

ERS research and reporting of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for food contributes to an understanding of which food categories experience substantial price changes, how consumers spend their incomes on food, and how and why prices change.

www.ers.usda.gov

The food-at-home (grocery store or supermarket food purchases) CPI increased 0.7 percent from December 2023 to January 2024 and was 1.2 percent higher than January 2023

Food-at-home prices are predicted to increase 1.6 percent, with a prediction interval of -1.8 to 5.3 percent,

Recent Historical Overview
Between the 1970s and early 2000s, food-at-home prices and food-away-from-home prices increased at similar rates. However, between 2009 and 2019, their growth rates diverged; while food-at-home prices deflated in 2016 and 2017,... In 2020, food-at-home prices increased 3.5 percent...In 2021, all food prices increased 3.9 percent as prices began accelerating in the second-half of the year....

In 2022, food prices increased by 9.9 percent, faster than any year since 1979. Food-at-home prices increased by 11.4 percent, while food-away-from-home prices increased by 7.7 percent. Food prices rose partly due to a highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) outbreak that affected egg and poultry prices and the conflict in Ukraine, which compounded other economy-wide inflationary pressures such as high energy costs. All food price categories increased by more than 5 percent, and all food categories grew faster than their historical average rate.

In 2023, food prices increased by 5.8 percent. Food price growth slowed in 2023 as economy-wide inflationary pressures, supply chain issues, and wholesale food prices eased from 2022. Food-at-home prices increased by 5.0 percent, and food-away-from-home prices increased by 7.1 percent. While prices increased for all food categories except for pork, prices grew more slowly in 2023 than in 2022 for all categories.

 

[IEC]

Your "basket" of items that you frequently buy will reflect inflation differently, because the average number is approximately 25% according to the BLS (2020 to Q1 2024 numbers), while inflation according to the newer calculation was at least 20% in the same time frame.

So even before adjusting for inflation, on select items it may be true that prices are up 80%+ (I have seen some of these in my circa 2020 basket of frequently purchased items and subsequently stopped buying the items in question or made substitutions). If you had a weird basket I could see it being up >50% quite easily, but if you're buying a variety of foods it shouldn't be anywhere near 80% on average.

Of course on some items I have noticed that compared to pre-pandemic pricing, not only are they 20-30% more expensive per package, the amount included in a package is also smaller (eg. 5-10% less by weight, or in the case of some canned drinks, 18 packs instead of 24 packs).

Between inflation and shrinkflation I can see why people are pissed off, because even if after adjusting for inflation the numbers aren't as egregious, most people who did not have the luxury of WFH haven't had the increase in income necessary to offset the ridiculous increase in housing, insurance, and groceries.

Especially for the lower quartile of earners, groceries will likely be >20% (and bottom 10% = >40%) of their income, which makes the sting of high prices that much more noticeable.

 

[jpiniero]

Sounds like a skills issue.

I suppose it's possible that high end grocery brands just sucked it up a bit... and didn't rise as much.

Or you just aren't paying attention at prices when shopping.

 

[Brainonska511]

I suppose it's possible that high end grocery brands just sucked it up a bit... and didn't rise as much.

Or you just aren't paying attention at prices when shopping.

As the grocery buyer for my household, I very much pay attention to what I am buying and spending. I have found that some things have gone up a little (particularly noticeable with paper products), and spending a little bit more than in years past, but it's nowhere near 80% more. Certainly not shopping "high end" either. Just your typical neighborhood, mass-market grocery chain.

 

[IronWing]

I talked with a financial advisor who provided a recommended asset allocation which includes significantly increasing my stake in short and intermediate term bonds. The funds would come out of a government bond fund. Given how much the corporate bond market has sucked for many years, I'm waffling on taking the advice. On one hand, one is supposed to invest when things are cheap and bleak. On the other hand, government bonds have been out performing corporate bonds for ten years running.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I bought some organic golden beets today and broccoli. I just learned you want to damage the broccoli before you eat it and let it sit injured for 90 minutes which was the test time used to get it to release chemicals that are good for you including cancer prevention. I guess violence isn't always bad.

You sir are an inspiration 🙏 🙌

Bravo!

 

[Moonbeam]

You sir are an inspiration 🙏 🙌

Bravo!

Thank you. I supposed it couldn't be helped. As a young man long ago, I kissed the Blarney Stone.