Of course Bush sounds dumb...

[JellyBaby]

zippy,

I've talked with a friend I know who lives in Europe. The general consensus over there is that Shrub is a complete and utter idiot. If elected, the rest of the world will be laughing heartily at Shrub for next 4 years, even if he doesn't truly deserve the ridicule.

As for Clinton, I personally can't stand the man. It took me 4 years to convince myself he was actually president. Every time I see him on TV I turn the channel. I guess I'm "totally disrespectful" as you put it but he earned my chastisement.

That said I'm eager for the vice presidential candidate debates. I'm impressed by both of these guys and am eager to see what they have to say. Even Censorman, who needs a tight least, has earned my respect in some areas.

 

[403Forbidden]

If Dubya is prez, can you imagine US negotiations w/ other countries like
China, Japan, and the EU?

Damn they will just laugh at us.

 

[403Forbidden]

Jellybaby



<< Is this same government that pays several million dollars of our money for each frickin' mile of highway built? The same government that pays high wages to a bunch of fat-ass contruction workers so they can rest against their shovels 7 out of 8 hours each day? >>




I am fully aware of these things. But to simply say that &quot;the governemnt produces nothing&quot;,
is simply foolish. These same things would/did happen with Republican presidents.

 

[IronMike]

To all you who have a minimum wage job, and cheat your employer of so much value (GOD knows what else), and are saping our national strength - Knock it off you lazy, stealing SOB's.

To all of you who make the big bucks, never stop working and teach proper attitudes to the scum - We look up to you.

 

[zippy]

I betcha' even the Canadians will laugh at us if George W. is elected...the CANADIANS!!!

hehe, no offense to canadians, heck, some of my best friends are Canadians.

 

[403Forbidden]

Yeah that's it...

we should all strive to be like Nike and The Gap...

make those big bucks...

while at the same time, making sure to keep an eye on those scam artists (our employees
who we pay the horrible high rate of minimum wage)...

 

[403Forbidden]

WOAH! it's already been more than 5 minutes since my post and still no reply thebestMAX yet so I guess he is on his way home from his minimum wage job where he cheats his employer out of valuble time by just posting on the net all day.

No offense to all you others who post all day intended. Hahaha lol

 

[Double Trouble]

403, the prez does not do any real 'negotiating' with any foreign countries. It just doesn't work that way. By the time the 'heads of state' actually get together, whatever agreements are to be made have already been established and hammered out by career diplomats. Gore or Bush (whoever is elected) just has to make sure he has the right people around him.

Red, for the most part I'm in agreement with you. The system is corrupt, both parties are equally corrupt, and we have a very weak seat of candidates. One I perceive as sincere but not too bright, and the other is an arrogant robot intent on doubling the size of government and taking credit for everything hard working people do. That being said, there is the lesser of two evils, and in my opinion that would be Bush by a small margin.

Bestmax: The government is supposed to govern, not produce. Today I heard Gore saying in Michigan that through his programs he's gonna &quot;add 20,000 good jobs in Michigan&quot;. That's the whole idiotic perception that somehow the government should 'create jobs'... which couldn't be further from the truth. The government should do it's best to stay out of the way of the hard working people and create an environment that fosters economic growth -- not increase it's own size and call that 'growth'. A smaller government is a better government, something that apparently is lost on both the major parties.

Another thing that came to mind in watching these guys speak. Did anyone notice that both sides seem to take for granted in their budgeting that the economy will continue to grow at the current pace?? Their spending plans are based on these massive surpluses they anticipate. If for some reason the economy slows down somewhat, we will still be stuck footing the bill for these programs -> better grab your wallet before the feds do.

 

[JellyBaby]

<< These same things would/did happen with Republican presidents. >>

403Forbidden,

But not when independents and others who use common sense are calling the shots. The government creates services, tangibles, and intangibles but there's little cost control. And why should they bother? They're rolling in our tax money and have no qualms spending it unwisely.

<< That being said, there is the lesser of two evils, and in my opinion that would be Bush by a small margin.>>

tagej,

Do you have any idea just how tired some of us are choose between the lesser of two evils?

<< The government should do it's best to stay out of the way of the hard working people and create an environment that fosters economic growth >>

Amen. Get the federal government out of the way, empower states and cities to do what the fine people in their communities feel is best.

 

[Double Trouble]

<< Do you have any idea just how tired some of us are choose between the lesser of two evils? >>



Yep, I sure do. Surely there's a better way, but there's no way to get to that better way with the current political structure. The two major parties have basically spent 100 years making sure the political infrastructure is such that they are in control..... and that forces many good candidates and leaders out of the running.

Oh well, that's a lot of whining and bitching, but I recognize that at least we have some freedom to choose, which is more than a lot of people have.

 

[locutus4]

My take:



Gore: Give everyones money to everyone else in hopes that it will make it better

Busch: Take some of peoples money and give it to organizations to REFORM faling things like public schools and social security etc.....

 

[JellyBaby]

tagej,

The two party system could work if only both weren't so tainted with bribe money. Yes bribe money. Individuals and corporations don't donate to the DNC simply out of preference for their party. They want results. Trent Lott doesn?t give out hand(shakes) in dark rooms because he?s congenial. Folks want him to front policy in their favor. And all of this goes on with the public blindly applauding state of the union addresses. ?The state of our nation is strong? so said wild bill last time. BS. It happens to be strong enough to generate tax revenues to continue your sloppy politics, that?s all.

Anyway, the one well-known candidate who stood a chance at fixing things so the two party system might live a long life didn't make the cut (in truth he was hamstrung by extremists).

So it's clear to me there's simply no way to fix the existing system. Apart from a revolution which nobody here wants, we need to get in a new party or independent thinkers. I've also heard mention of fixing the voting process. But under this tyrannical two party system, we will never change the voting process.. Thus the final option is to vote in independents and third-party folk until there are enough of them to cause positive change. It's simple, it's long term, it goes against &quot;instant gratification&quot; but it just happens to be the right thing to do.

 

[Zucchini]

These threads are a waste of time. Its not a discussion when you are just trying to strengthen your own beliefs. and no one is going to change their opinion based upon the lousy arguements in these forums. Peoples minds are set. If you like bush, vote bush and be happy. If you like gore, vote gore and be happy. This is so %#@ pointless!

 

[JellyBaby]

Zucchini, all you need to is unsubscribe and leave if you don't like the content. And for the record, any dialogue has the potential to change minds. I've learned a lot from participating in these forums (especially the political and drug threads). They are not pointless.

 

[Zucchini]

Its just an observation on the current bush vs gore threads.

 

[Sephiroth_IX]

Either that or he just snorted a pixy stick... One of the two.

 

[glenn1]

It doesn't really matter if Bush is dumb (although i disagree with the assertion that he is stupid, i think we can agree we are choosing a President, not the winner of the smartest man in America contest) if he can accomplish what he sets out to do. Likewise, it doesn't matter if Gore is a liar/untrustworthy (again, i don't think he's a pathological liar, but again, we are choosing a President, not national fact checker), so long as those he needs to work with to accomplish things, trust him enough to engage in the process and see it through to completion.

Although i disagree with Gore politically and philosophically, i don't think it will be a tradgedy if he is elected. Those who feel the same about Bush's outlook should be similiar... the Republic will survive if either one gets elected. I give either man credit to think that he will act in what he regards as in the best interest of the country, i would hope that all would extend both men the same courtesty in return. I don't think i'd feel comforable with the process at all, if either of the two parties were to nominate someone who would not put the needs of the country first, although we might disagree with what those needs are, and how to achieve them.

Those who are upset about their perception of the quality of the two major candidates (&quot;lesser of two evils&quot;, the 'party machinery' gave us two weak candidates, etc.) let me remind you that the two were chosen by a given and predetermined electoral process. That you do not like the results is tough. The majority of other voters disagreed with you. The American voter gets what they collectively want, even when you think that the results suck. I'm sure that back in the day, that people were grousing too about the &quot;poor choice&quot; that was offered between the two parties, when Thomas Jefferson and John Adams were the candidates.

 

[Napalm]

403Forbidden:

Its encouraging to see someone with more than half a brain posting in a political thread (no offence intended to all those of you with less than half a brain).

Napalm

 

[Zucchini]

&quot;<< PRIVATE JESUIT SCHOOL PAID FOR BY MY MONEY AND GI BILL. I served my country and earned my education, did you? >>
&quot;

You dissapoint me, are you really a member of that great generation? If you know anything about history, the GI bill was a very very controversial piece of legislation. This big government subsidy program opened higher education to the masses for the first time in the history of the country and created the middle class. Many universitys were upset that they would have to allow people other then the elite into their schools.

 

[thebestMAX]

RED DAWN

You are right. His personal questions to me just struck a vey exposed nerve. See rest of post.

403-

NOT, Deleted!

IRONMIKE-

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm there. Are you emulating Russ?
Ha HA HA

TAGEJ-

Are you with me or against me? I think that was my point and I agree with your statement 90%. You just stated it better that I did, I guess.

Zucchini-

I think you just missed my point. GI Bill, pros and cons are well known to me as well how much some of the &quot;elite&quot; were anti. Things have changed. I just meant I gave up 4 years of my life by enlisting during a dangerous time for all and feel that what I got was in my &quot;contract&quot; so to speak, earned by me. I knew that GI Bill was one of the &quot;earned benefits&quot; I would get. The last year I was in the AF, I earned less than $3,600 including the allowance for my wife. GI Bill didnt even pay for my entire tuition for the 2 years it took me to complete the 96 hours I needed to graduate. I majored in Biochemistry so you can see between work and school, I went about 2 years without sleep. I feel the same way about Social Security, 20 year service retiremnt pensions and so on. A contract. You say you will do something and then do it and you have earned whatever was agreed on. This went a little off topic but I hope you understand what I am getting at.

 

[MrPALCO]

One of the best leaders of all Time....poorly spoken by the standards of the unwashed, and not polished.......






Moses.


Go GWB!!!!!

 

[thebestMAX]

Where is everybody today? Some new playground that I missed or did they just take their footballs and go home?

 

[JellyBaby]

Some of us felt bad about wasting all of yesterday discussing politics (well I did at any rate). I know I didn't get any work done. Possibly we're all trying to makeup for that today. (Or it could be everyone's pissed off and/or plum tuckered out.)

 

[thebestMAX]

JELLY-

<< (Or it could be everyone's pissed off and/or plum tuckered out.) >>

Well, I know I was. I guess I just let things get to me too much sometimes and then feel bad about it aFterwards. Dont usually lose my cool.

But &quot;Im feeling MUCH BETTER now.&quot;

 

[Double Trouble]

glenn1

<< Those who are upset about their perception of the quality of the two major candidates (&quot;lesser of two evils&quot;, the 'party machinery' gave us two weak candidates, etc.) let me remind you that the two were chosen by a given and predetermined electoral process. That you do not like the results is tough. >>



I have absolutely no problem accepting that I might be part of a mintority, or that there is a larger part of the population that might feel differently than I do -- that's just how a democracy works. I do lament the fact that we have a system now that is really controlled by big money. The better leader doesn't win, it's the one that has the most money backing him that wins. Bush beat McCain simply because he had a huuuuuge amount of money to spend (nothing against Bush, that's just an example).

Further, don't forget that in reality only 33 percent of the people in the country vote in the presidential elections. Of those, about 18% will vote one way, while the remaining 15% vote for someone else. What that means is that really 18% of the people eligible to vote in the country are determining the national policy that will affect everyone. The masses simply take their rights for granted and have grown jaded and apathetic.