EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Actual everything you said were personal observations and experiences.
That's not fact.
Actually that is common place. It is rampant and if you do not understand rationing of healthcare sorry and a general lack of caring by your healthcare provider sorry. Next time when you are in a line of 20 people at the post office with one attendant ask yourself "Do I want these people running my healthcare?" It's a hell of alot closer to fact than anything you offered.
Do you have UHC? Do your theories mean more than my experience where the rubber hits the road? Or do you just listen to partisans that tell you we'll take care of you and sign your life away to people that just want more and more power?
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,122
- 5,654
- 126
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Actual everything you said were personal observations and experiences.
That's not fact.
Actually that is common place. It is rampant and if you do not understand rationing of healthcare sorry and a general lack of caring by your healthcare provider sorry. Next time when you are in a line of 20 people at the post office with one attendant ask yourself "Do I want these people running my healthcare?" It's a hell of alot closer to fact than anything you offered.
Do you have UHC? Do your theories mean more than my experience where the rubber hits the road? Or do you just listen to partisans that tell you we'll take care of you and sign your life away to people that just want more and more power?
I know of a couple(Husband American, Wife Canadian) who at one time had a Small Business and a Net Worth > $2million US, who lost it all and eventually moved to Canada after he ran into Health Problems.
- Aug 23, 2003
- 25,375
- 142
- 116
It wouldn't stay as is, you'll be paying more for those benefits now, but they'll remain the same.
Just because you have crushing medical bills for the rest of your life for your substandard care... doesnt mean that it cant be improved...
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,929
- 142
- 106
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Actual everything you said were personal observations and experiences.
That's not fact.
Actually that is common place. It is rampant and if you do not understand rationing of healthcare sorry and a general lack of caring by your healthcare provider sorry. Next time when you are in a line of 20 people at the post office with one attendant ask yourself "Do I want these people running my healthcare?" It's a hell of alot closer to fact than anything you offered.
Do you have UHC? Do your theories mean more than my experience where the rubber hits the road? Or do you just listen to partisans that tell you we'll take care of you and sign your life away to people that just want more and more power?
Nobody is saying UHC is going to stamp out private healthcare in the US. A happy medium can be reached to offer UHC to people who cannot afford it and/or reserve it for only serious injuries. Nobody is saying the US will become a healthcare shthole like Canada, we're quite aware that Canada has ALOT of improving to do.
The problem is the hospitals and doctors aren't going to lower their fee's, because they know they will be paid.
Universal Health Care/Coverage is nothing more than a sound bite to help win re-elections. The reality of it is the Healthcare system needs to be completely overhauled from the ground up.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 31
- 91
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 31
- 91
Are you telling us that you can't wait for them to sign a bill that you haven't even seen yet? Wow that's a lot of trust.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 31
- 91
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: EXman
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Actual everything you said were personal observations and experiences.
That's not fact.
Actually that is common place. It is rampant and if you do not understand rationing of healthcare sorry and a general lack of caring by your healthcare provider sorry. Next time when you are in a line of 20 people at the post office with one attendant ask yourself "Do I want these people running my healthcare?" It's a hell of alot closer to fact than anything you offered.
Do you have UHC? Do your theories mean more than my experience where the rubber hits the road? Or do you just listen to partisans that tell you we'll take care of you and sign your life away to people that just want more and more power?
Nobody is saying UHC is going to stamp out private healthcare in the US. A happy medium can be reached to offer UHC to people who cannot afford it and/or reserve it for only serious injuries. Nobody is saying the US will become a healthcare shthole like Canada, we're quite aware that Canada has ALOT of improving to do.
The UHC for the uninsured in Tennessee went over very well... But no one ever brings that up as a positive talking point for UHC for some reason.
There is a problem that millions are uninsured and need health insurance but even if they were able to get it, they will still go bankrupt/not afford it. Healthcare costs for insured are insane. Our healthcare system needs to be looked at from many different angles, not just focusing on the millions that don't have health coverage. The fact is they won't be able to afford healthcare even if they are insured.
It's not rocket science. Compensate the medical industry fairly, they take the patients and treat them. No non-paying clients drives costs down, GDP expenditure remains <= current expenditure, and everybody lives with a better quality of life.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 31
- 91
I'd love to hear some ideas on this 'fair' wage scale in terms of doctors. Will all doctors of the same specialization be compensated union-esque?
They should get same wages as their counterparts in other countries where we outsource. Other industries are adapting to a global economy to reduce wages, why not medical? In that case 10-15 bucks a hour sounds about right.
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
- 31
- 91
Originally posted by: EXman
SNIPPED
Well I am happy to see that you can be honest about it being a huge shit sandwich!
There are a few points where we disagree and I say you are flat wrong. But rather than taking it point by point I'll just point out the obvious statement that is wrong.
I have 1st hand knowledge of three reasons why that is not correct.
1st reason: I used to work for a canadian company. Guess what people came to our U.S. based part of the company to visit while they were on one of their 4 paid weeks of vacation? Healthcare. Yup they would come down here get a procedure done stop by our place to say hi and see how the Yanks were doin then go home. in 5 years I saw maybe a dozen people I know of in a small company do this. 12 isn't much but that is just the ones that I know of.
2nd reason: My father-in-law needed knee replacement surgery. He is a veteran. He has UHC as a part of DVA. How long did it take to get the MRI? 20 days. How long did it take to get the knee replacement? almost 3 years. They are backlogged and well younger vets get first priority. No kidding they tried to talk him out of it since he was to old late 50's.
3rd reason: My Kiddos are covered by our state run Schip. UHC for poor kids. Since I make alot by thier standards I have to pay for it and it is CHEAP! Guess what you get what you pay for. No doctor will take my kids and if they do they try and diagnose from the phone or give you a 2 minute office visit. Yea I said 2 minutes! Oh and guess what? You have to go through a bureaucracy to get it and you never talk to the same caseworker twice. They treat you as sub-human. They lose your paperwork. They deny paying for benefits and then guess what I have to end up paying the doctors cash due to the bureaucratic scumbags F'ed up as usual. So now the Cheap insurance costs a fortune and the sevice is on par with a post office late in the day. And since they are a government entity you cannot complain. No one cares! Thier jobs are safe! Doctors often get stuck with the bill and refuse to see patients that have our governments UHC for kids. You think you have Shitty service now? You have not seen anything! UHC is the most frustration thing I have ever delt with in my entire life and i'm married!
I am glad to share that with anyone. Really I do not think everyone knows we already have UHC for kids and vets. It sucks. It sucks huge! Remember when dealing with bureaucrats you are going to lose every time. There is no benefit for them to be nice to you. There is no sense of urgency to get you proper care. Good doctors are hard to find. Finding a bureaucrat to care is impossible. You're screwed!
I have a HSA and I have to shop for a good deal on all medical expenses. My care is completely better in every way. Doctors love me cause I pay in cash (A HSA debit card) and I can get discounts.
As someone pointed out this is again anecdotal evidence, but to be completely fair even one bad experience is too much.
I truly believe that at this day in age in a country as great as ours we should consider great healthcare (not adequate, not good, great) as a right and not a privilege. I realize this is incredibly naive but I feel that pessimism about the system is one of the major contributors to how bad it is. You have to believe we can do better to actually make things better.
With that said, I 100% agree with you about veteran services. They are horrible. It is despicable how this country takes care of veterans and almost every story I hear about it is stomach churning. However, the problems with veteran's services run much much deeper than what can be blamed on UHC. In fact part of the problem is the fact that aren't really universally covered.
The biggest problem is the lack of investment in the program. It is quite sad to say that our country is much more interested in blowing the shit out of things than making sure those that do that dirty work are taken care of.
Fuck if you think the medical care/physical well being is bad I would highly suggest putting your fingers in your ears and jamming your head in the ground if anyone starts to talk about psychological health. The Veteran's affair service completely turns their back on these people. One of my first calls as an EMT when I was in undergrad was to pick up a recently discharged Iraq War Vet. He was denied 4 times to be psychologically evaluated, so he did what any person would do and started to self medicate with whiskey. It was truly a sad sad case. I chuckle every time I see a "Support our Troops" ribbon.
The problem with Veteran's affairs is veteran's affairs. Maybe if we really supported our troops like we pretend we do, we'd stop producing million dollar fighters that just sit around and start pumping money into taking care of them.
With that rant done, I'm interested as to what state your children are covered in? For the most part CHIP/SCHIP/etc. programs are usually praised as fairly decent coverage. There are bad examples but for the most part I understand it is much better than Medicare.
Finally this all goes back to what I originally said. American's are too stubborn and politicians are too corrupt to give ourselves a great Health Care system. We won't fix it. We will eventually get a Psuedo-Socialized system, which will suck and we will ride that until it starts to be as shitty as it is now.
So do you intentionally try to be dense or just born that way?
Fairly means the same thing it has meant when Obama has been setting up cost cutting measured with insurance companies.
It means that if you go to the hospital 2 Tylenol won't cost 28 dollars. Cutting costs and reducing waste.
Medical Industry does not equal the doctor's paycheck. But have fun patting yourself on the back because you can't fathom how much better our nation could be.
Considering I will be $280,000 in debt because of Medical School alone this isn't going to work. First there needs to be a drastic overhaul of medical Malpractice Disputes and Insurance. Second, they need to significantly decrease the cost of medical school. And third they need to work on adequately compensating doctors.
Based on amount of schooling and general intelligence doctors are some of the lowest paid. If we really wanted to make money, I'd go be a lawyer or an Exec of some company. Fuck, I'd even go be an engineer. Medicine does not pay outstandingly. The time of doctors being overpayed rich pillars of the community has long since passed.
People need to stop thinking that. It is insulting.
EDIT: And I was payed $11/hour in undergrad to work as a TA with little accountability and barely any responsibility. If you honestly think you are going to get someone to work 60+ hours a week while taking countless individuals lives in their hands all for the wage of a greeter at walmart you are sadly mistaken.
Actually costs are severely overinflated because of the insurance companies. I don't care about doctor salaries they are a drop in the bucket when it comes to overall costs.
But I'm not going to cry for the underpaid doctor's at night.
http://www.allied-physicians.c...physician-salaries.htm
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Actually costs are severely overinflated because of the insurance companies. I don't care about doctor salaries they are a drop in the bucket when it comes to overall costs.
But I'm not going to cry for the underpaid doctor's at night.
http://www.allied-physicians.c...physician-salaries.htm
Funny, I personally think 200-400k a year is reasonable for SAVING LIVES. Talk to your average jerk off and they swear it highway robbery. But again, like I said, it isn't the money that brought me into medicine. Just everyone once in a while, I'd appreciate people not bitching about our salaries and just appreciating what we do.
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Actually costs are severely overinflated because of the insurance companies. I don't care about doctor salaries they are a drop in the bucket when it comes to overall costs.
But I'm not going to cry for the underpaid doctor's at night.
http://www.allied-physicians.c...physician-salaries.htm
Funny, I personally think 200-400k a year is reasonable for SAVING LIVES. Talk to your average jerk off and they swear it highway robbery. But again, like I said, it isn't the money that brought me into medicine. Just everyone once in a while, I'd appreciate people not bitching about our salaries and just appreciating what we do.
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