IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
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What? Blue collar workers generally have some of the best insurance there is because employers need them healthy and strong. Look at any plan an auto manufacturer or large factory offer union and non. VERY good insurance.
nobodyknows
Diamond Member
- Sep 28, 2008
- 5,474
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IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
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Originally posted by: nobodyknows
:laughlease. stop it, your killing me:laugh:
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
That's a bullshit number by the way. In order to put that increase in perspective, you'd have to take into account the fact that average HI profit margins are still only sitting at roughly 3 to 5%. Where's all that money going from the supposed 400% increase? It sure as hell isn't present in their actual profit margins, or in their salaries which are already factored into those profit margins, so it must be being spent somewhere... on something. One must conclude that overhead for the HI has also risen almost 400%. So, perhaps it's the costs to the HI companies that might be a problem? hmm...Originally posted by: Ausm
Sure it will!! What's the problem with the Insurance companies raping everyone raw and laughing all the way to the bank? I really don't see how a 400% increase in profits in the last ten years would do this.
The fact is that HI profits account for less than 2% of the total U.S. expenditures on healthcare. That bears repeating: HI profits account for less than 2% of the total U.S. expenditures on healthcare!
Any 5th-grader could deduce that the real problem must lie elsewhere. hmm...
If you truly want to address the issue and fix the actual problems, you'd first have to acknowledge the above. The problem, for too many of you, is that these facts get in the way of most of your rhetoric -- you just gotta have your fall-guy or boogieman, don't ya?
I been working in the manufacturing industry for 30+ years so I think I have a firm grasp on REALITY.
Come back after you hit puberty.
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
That's a bullshit number by the way. In order to put that increase in perspective, you'd have to take into account the fact that average HI profit margins are still only sitting at roughly 3 to 5%. Where's all that money going from the supposed 400% increase? It sure as hell isn't present in their actual profit margins, or in their salaries which are already factored into those profit margins, so it must be being spent somewhere... on something. One must conclude that overhead for the HI has also risen almost 400%. So, perhaps it's the costs to the HI companies that might be a problem? hmm...Originally posted by: Ausm
Sure it will!! What's the problem with the Insurance companies raping everyone raw and laughing all the way to the bank? I really don't see how a 400% increase in profits in the last ten years would do this.
The fact is that HI profits account for less than 2% of the total U.S. expenditures on healthcare. That bears repeating: HI profits account for less than 2% of the total U.S. expenditures on healthcare!
Any 5th-grader could deduce that the real problem must lie elsewhere. hmm...
If you truly want to address the issue and fix the actual problems, you'd first have to acknowledge the above. The problem, for too many of you, is that these facts get in the way of most of your rhetoric -- you just gotta have your fall-guy or boogieman, don't ya?
Yep, 3%.. that is how some of these companies have increased profits by 1000% in 5 years.. gotcha.
Yeah, the ceos of these companies admitting they deny people for profit all the time.. that's cool.
Want some facts?
Take a look at a recent report "Insuring Health or Ensuring Profit?; A look at the Financial Gains of Washington's Health Insurers." According to the report, the big three carriers in Washington, Regence BlueShield, Premera Blue Cross and Group Health Cooperative saw profits increase from $11 million in 2002 to $243 million in 2003 and $431 million in 2006. Their cash surplus went from $833 million in 2002 to $2.2 billion (with a "B") in 2006. Interestingly enough they did it while covering less people. Over 2.37 million people were covered by the three in 2002 compared to 1.9 million in 2006.
http://vancouver.injuryboard.c...r.aspx?googleid=230780
Potter, who spent 15 years at CIGNA, said health plans have a financial incentive to cancel the policies of their most costly members and have implemented strategies to do so. ?They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy,? he testified. And canceling policies for even a small number of such members can have ?a big effect? on the bottom line, he added. ?Where is the logic and the humanity of having pre-existing conditions not covered in our society?? Potter asked. He noted that his testimony wasn?t aimed at CIGNA specifically, but rather at an industry that he said is ?taking this country in the wrong direction.?
http://www.aishealth.com/Bnow/hbd070909.html
""They confuse their customers and dump the sick ? all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," said Wendell Potter, who retired as CIGNA's vice president of corporate communications last year. He spent nearly 15 years at the company and four years at Humana."
"Potter, for instance, recalled a trip on a corporate jet from Philadelphia, where CIGNA is headquartered, to Connecticut, where the company's health insurance business is based in Bloomfield. During the flight, he was served lunch on gold-rimmed china with a gold-plated knife and fork.
"I realized for the first time that someone's insurance premiums were paying for me to travel in such luxury," he said on his blog."
"He condemned insurers' efforts to get rid of unprofitable customers, sell policies that can mislead consumers and offer very limited coverage, and pay out as small a portion of premiums as possible for claims in order to boost profits and please Wall Street."
"Potter described in written testimony how insurers use "purging" ? unrealistic rate increases ? to drive off less profitable employers. Citing a USA Today report, he recalled how CIGNA boosted rates in 2006 for the Entertainment Industry Group Insurance Trust so much that for some family plans, premiums would have topped $44,000 a year."
"CIGNA, responding to Potter's testimony, said Wednesday, "Although we respect that there are different opinions on the solutions, we strongly disagree with the suggestion that, motivated by profits, the insurance industry has deliberately attempted to confuse or unfairly treat covered individuals.""
http://www.courant.com/busines...tjun25,0,4107201.story
"Among the other testimony heard by the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation was that of Robin Beaton. It reflected some of the insurance company tactics condemned by Potter.
It was a nightmare scenario. The day before she was scheduled to undergo a double mastectomy for invasive breast cancer, Robin Beaton's health insurance company informed her that she was "red flagged" and they wouldn't pay for her surgery. The hospital wanted a $30,000 deposit before they would move forward. Beaton had no choice but to forgo the life-saving surgery.
Beaton had dutifully signed up for individual insurance when she retired from nursing to start a small business. She had never missed a payment, but that didn't matter. Blue Cross cited two earlier, unrelated conditions that she hadn't reported to them when signing up ? acne and a fast beating heart ? and rescinded her policy.
Beaton pleaded with the company and had her doctors write letters on her behalf to no avail. It was not until Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) personally called Blue Cross that her policy was reinstated and she could undergo surgery. In that year, Beaton's tumor doubled in size, leading to further complications necessitating the removal of her lymph glands as well."
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
That's a bullshit number by the way. In order to put that increase in perspective, you'd have to take into account the fact that average HI profit margins are still only sitting at roughly 3 to 5%. Where's all that money going from the supposed 400% increase? It sure as hell isn't present in their actual profit margins, or in their salaries which are already factored into those profit margins, so it must be being spent somewhere... on something. One must conclude that overhead for the HI has also risen almost 400%. So, perhaps it's the costs to the HI companies that might be a problem? hmm...Originally posted by: Ausm
Sure it will!! What's the problem with the Insurance companies raping everyone raw and laughing all the way to the bank? I really don't see how a 400% increase in profits in the last ten years would do this.
The fact is that HI profits account for less than 2% of the total U.S. expenditures on healthcare. That bears repeating: HI profits account for less than 2% of the total U.S. expenditures on healthcare!
Any 5th-grader could deduce that the real problem must lie elsewhere. hmm...
If you truly want to address the issue and fix the actual problems, you'd first have to acknowledge the above. The problem, for too many of you, is that these facts get in the way of most of your rhetoric -- you just gotta have your fall-guy or boogieman, don't ya?
Yep, 3%.. that is how some of these companies have increased profits by 1000% in 5 years.. gotcha.
Yeah, the ceos of these companies admitting they deny people for profit all the time.. that's cool.
Want some facts?
Take a look at a recent report "Insuring Health or Ensuring Profit?; A look at the Financial Gains of Washington's Health Insurers." According to the report, the big three carriers in Washington, Regence BlueShield, Premera Blue Cross and Group Health Cooperative saw profits increase from $11 million in 2002 to $243 million in 2003 and $431 million in 2006. Their cash surplus went from $833 million in 2002 to $2.2 billion (with a "B") in 2006. Interestingly enough they did it while covering less people. Over 2.37 million people were covered by the three in 2002 compared to 1.9 million in 2006.
http://vancouver.injuryboard.c...r.aspx?googleid=230780
Potter, who spent 15 years at CIGNA, said health plans have a financial incentive to cancel the policies of their most costly members and have implemented strategies to do so. ?They look carefully to see if a sick policyholder may have omitted a minor illness, a pre-existing condition, when applying for coverage, and then they use that as justification to cancel the policy,? he testified. And canceling policies for even a small number of such members can have ?a big effect? on the bottom line, he added. ?Where is the logic and the humanity of having pre-existing conditions not covered in our society?? Potter asked. He noted that his testimony wasn?t aimed at CIGNA specifically, but rather at an industry that he said is ?taking this country in the wrong direction.?
http://www.aishealth.com/Bnow/hbd070909.html
""They confuse their customers and dump the sick ? all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors," said Wendell Potter, who retired as CIGNA's vice president of corporate communications last year. He spent nearly 15 years at the company and four years at Humana."
"Potter, for instance, recalled a trip on a corporate jet from Philadelphia, where CIGNA is headquartered, to Connecticut, where the company's health insurance business is based in Bloomfield. During the flight, he was served lunch on gold-rimmed china with a gold-plated knife and fork.
"I realized for the first time that someone's insurance premiums were paying for me to travel in such luxury," he said on his blog."
"He condemned insurers' efforts to get rid of unprofitable customers, sell policies that can mislead consumers and offer very limited coverage, and pay out as small a portion of premiums as possible for claims in order to boost profits and please Wall Street."
"Potter described in written testimony how insurers use "purging" ? unrealistic rate increases ? to drive off less profitable employers. Citing a USA Today report, he recalled how CIGNA boosted rates in 2006 for the Entertainment Industry Group Insurance Trust so much that for some family plans, premiums would have topped $44,000 a year."
"CIGNA, responding to Potter's testimony, said Wednesday, "Although we respect that there are different opinions on the solutions, we strongly disagree with the suggestion that, motivated by profits, the insurance industry has deliberately attempted to confuse or unfairly treat covered individuals.""
http://www.courant.com/busines...tjun25,0,4107201.story
"Among the other testimony heard by the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation was that of Robin Beaton. It reflected some of the insurance company tactics condemned by Potter.
It was a nightmare scenario. The day before she was scheduled to undergo a double mastectomy for invasive breast cancer, Robin Beaton's health insurance company informed her that she was "red flagged" and they wouldn't pay for her surgery. The hospital wanted a $30,000 deposit before they would move forward. Beaton had no choice but to forgo the life-saving surgery.
Beaton had dutifully signed up for individual insurance when she retired from nursing to start a small business. She had never missed a payment, but that didn't matter. Blue Cross cited two earlier, unrelated conditions that she hadn't reported to them when signing up ? acne and a fast beating heart ? and rescinded her policy.
Beaton pleaded with the company and had her doctors write letters on her behalf to no avail. It was not until Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) personally called Blue Cross that her policy was reinstated and she could undergo surgery. In that year, Beaton's tumor doubled in size, leading to further complications necessitating the removal of her lymph glands as well."
I respect Wendell Potter for turning whistle blower and telling the REAL story about how the insurance industry is screwing Americans. I just hope Capital hill will listen but I doubt it because the Insurance lobby is spending 1.4 million/day to keep the status quo.
lol.. and yet, demonstrable greed and unethical practices aside, neither of you addressed the simple fact that HI profits account for less than 2% of total US expenditures on healthcare.
What do you -- or the Admin -- plan on doing to address the 50% of total expenditures that are a result of real problems in our entire healthcare system? After all, out-of-control rising costs are the number one problem, and therefore the number one priority for reform, are they not?
Is your only goal to teach those 2% scumbags a lesson, or do you wish to address the real problems anytime soon?
Please repeat the phrase "less than 2%" over and over to yourself until it fucking sinks in.
What do you -- or the Admin -- plan on doing to address the 50% of total expenditures that are a result of real problems in our entire healthcare system? After all, out-of-control rising costs are the number one problem, and therefore the number one priority for reform, are they not?
Is your only goal to teach those 2% scumbags a lesson, or do you wish to address the real problems anytime soon?
Please repeat the phrase "less than 2%" over and over to yourself until it fucking sinks in.
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
- 27,399
- 3,948
- 126
the health insurance industry has done a number on this topic. Firstly destroying any talk of uhc and single payer - then destroying any talk of a government option - and now destroying any talk of mandatory health coverage and mandatory insurance.
Bravo, health insurance industry, bravo.
Bravo, health insurance industry, bravo.
Originally posted by: blanghorst
Originally posted by: nobodyknows
:laugh
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
Every post you make
Many thanks to those that put this tool and his buds in their place :thumbsup: :beer:
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Uhh... you can try to blame them all you want but there are many of us that are against all those things it didn't take a word or a dime from those big bad evil Insurers...
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
Re: The bolded part above.
Are you sure about that?
The last thing I saw (last week IIRC) was that they were complaining about the new Senate Bill (Baucus's) because mandatory HI was "watered down" and the number expected to be induced into purchasing HI was reduced.
I think you've got it wrong. The HI companies want people to be forced to purchace HI (i.e., the product they sell).
Fern
Well there are those that just hate the country to the core like you.
You and buds in that category are well represented in here.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,042
- 4,689
- 126
Would you be ok if you were forced to buy a burger from me for $1,000,000? You see, my business pays me a salary of $980,293.16 per burger that I make. The company has a meager profit of $19,607.84 per hamburger sold. Heck, they'll throw in the cheese and ketchup for free. You'll buy that for sure, because, well there is only a 2% profit margin. I'm sure that Wendy's, or Burger King have more than a 2% profit margin, so I'm a bargain. Right?
Your point is correct. We have to address other parts of the health insurance pie. That is where we can make the biggest gains. We need to reduce demand for tests and proceedures of minimal utility. We need to increase supply of doctors to bring their salaries down. We need to move tasks from expensive areas to inexpensive areas. That is where we'll make the biggest gains.
But, your point is just plain silly when you focus only on the profit margin where there is a lot of fat in the expense line (my $980k salary per burger example). Insurance companies can cut a lot of fat and still make a nice profit while saving far more than 2%.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2004
- 11,465
- 1
- 0
First off you lost me with the title, anything titled "Obamacare" is obviously a one sided partisan post. Secondly a study commisioned by the insurance lobby is laughable and absolutely bullshit.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
- 126
You'll have to forgive Dave McOwned. He has been owned so many times and shown to be wrong on so many occasions, it has permanently scarred his brain.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
- 126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blanghorst
Originally posted by: nobodyknows
:laugh
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
Every post you make
Many thanks to those that put this tool and his buds in their place :thumbsup: :beer:
Ah yes, the official forum jester weighs in with his usual non-input. Put me in my place? Dave, you've been owned so many times that your name needs to officially change to McOwned. The only thing you know regarding putting things in place is putting SETI copies on computers illegally and then getting your ass fired. Even those on the left in this forum acknowledge you're the forum joke.
Since neither of you can seem to read, let me quote it again:
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
and again
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
and again
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
Here is a definition:
lie: an inaccurate or false statement.
Since the definition contains the words "inaccurate" and "false," this means a lie can only apply to facts being lied about, not opinions. So once again:
OK, time to put your money where your mouth is. Please document, with quotes and refuting sources, where I have lied.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
- 33,655
- 688
- 126
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