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Obamacare to be MUCH MUCH More Expensive than promised!

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zsdersw said:
Liberals were 100% behind Obamacare, but not because Obamacare is what they want. They were 100% behind it because they were willing to push through almost any kind of healthcare reform, no matter how bad the reform may be.
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Not this liberal.
 
IronWing said:
No. The current private system is unsustainable. Throwing 16% of GDP at healthcare renders the US unable to compete in the global economy. Heathcare spending under the private model is killing us. Obamacare wasn't a a solution looking for a problem. It is simply the wrong solution to the problem of run away health insurance costs and healthcare delivery costs.
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Funny, but when Obamacare was proposed I suggested we look into how health care reform was best implemented before picking a course of action. Now the magic wand of UHC is invoked again, without so much as a simple explanation of how it could be done well given we have limitations on the power of government and two parties that would scorch the earth before curing cancer if that meant one side would gain the upper hand. This is a "magic missile, magic missile" solution. Besides, you are completely ignoring a lower population density than many nations who use government to rule health care, the necessary rationing which must follow, and most of all an aging demographic which MUST increase costs overall, and lastly that pesky Constitution which doesn't grant the government the power to take over it's people as this would require. Of course there are probably solutions which would be beneficial and legal, but why do something which requires thought and planning and heaven forbid we try that.
 
zsdersw said:
Liberals were 100% behind Obamacare, but not because Obamacare is what they want. They were 100% behind it because they were willing to push through almost any kind of healthcare reform, no matter how bad the reform may be.
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LMAO I am glad you can speak for ALL Liberals....🙄
 
How much did Iraq cost relative to right-wing projections? Did the right wingers have the same quibbles about money spent to send Americans to die as they do about money spent to cover Americans health and save some of them from dying early from lack of care? These hypocrites did nothing about health coverage for the uninsured, and blew trillions on useless wars when they were running the show, so they have no leg to stand on.
 
Ausm said:
LMAO what a crock of shit...The affordable healthcare act will not be fully implemented until 2014.
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We know that and so does the CBO. That's when your premiums go up, remember?

Nevertheless why did the left object so vociferously when it was suggested that this wasn't health care reform, that a bunch of politicians could fix things with a 2K plus bill which hadn't had due diligence applied to understanding the problems and solutions done first?

Please don't tell me about the Reps, because they are equally useless, but there is this religious faith in the ability of politicians to fix anything and no one dare question the Orthodoxy. Blasphemers aren't wanted, even if they are correct. The solution? Give absolute control to a body of inept, inexpert in every way when it comes to health care and they'll fix everything?

The health care systems in Europe have co-evolved with their society and government. Whatever they are doing can't be applied in a Frankenstein like amputation and grafting gorilla arms and ostrich legs to a person, especially when those doing the surgery will be as well matched to the task as a drunken taxi driver would be to piloting a space shuttle.

Again, we need a body of experts in the fields of health care, cost analysis and consumer advocates and I'll add legal experts familiar with health care legalities which are tasked to come up with an analysis of how things are, what can be done, and what it will cost along with the advantages and disadvantages of various options and let the public know. Then the politicians can screw it up at their peril, but at least they will have a proper groundwork. No doubt some will object to reasoned analysis of our needs and what can be done in America, but then they would be showing that it's their political needs which must be met, not the best outcome which is what's important to them.
 
senseamp said:
How much did Iraq cost relative to right-wing projections? Did the right wingers have the same quibbles about money spent to send Americans to die as they do about money spent to cover Americans health and save some of them from dying early from lack of care? These hypocrites did nothing about health coverage for the uninsured, and blew trillions on useless wars when they were running the show, so they have no leg to stand on.
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So you want to fuck up things in perpetuity because the Republicans did it with Iraq? Awesome.
 
I don't understand. When I go to the CBO website instead of trusting Fox News to provide accurate info, all I can find is this document which says that the net costs are slightly less than originally projected. :hmm:
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
So you want to fuck up things in perpetuity because the Republicans did it with Iraq? Awesome.
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Even 200B per year to cover 30 million Americans is not a "fuck up." You'd think a guy who let a patient die because the gubment wouldn't pay for drugs on the spot would know that.
 
What bothers me most about this CBO estimate is that it's obvious the Democrats lied about the costs when they were trying to get it passed so it would have more support from the public. Obama's estimates were the Obamacare Bill would cost under a trillion dollars over 10 years for PR reasons, it helped to gather more support for the Bill.
 
senseamp said:
Even 200B per year to cover 30 million Americans is not a "fuck up." You'd think a guy who let a patient die because the gubment wouldn't pay for drugs on the spot would know that.
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Yeah, the government wouldn't cough up the numbers on 12k worth of meds although they could have because they implemented a reg before sending out the new cards. Of course that's the government for you and the responsibility of anyone else to take the blame. Then again you would see doctors arrested who didn't follow a nonsense regulation and didn't let their patients die because of it. That's a great health care system you envision, Comrade.
 
IronWing said:
This. Obamacare is not a liberal policy. It is a corporatist policy designed to further enrich the medical insurance companies.
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But liberals in congress voted for it. So much for sticking to principles. Obama, Pelosi and Reid had to bribe and threaten members of their own party to vote for this. Again, so much for principles.

And of course the program is going to cost more than projected. The projections were a flat out lie to make it easier to extort votes from their own party.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Yeah, the government wouldn't cough up the numbers on 12k worth of meds although they could have because they implemented a reg before sending out the new cards. Of course that's the government for you and the responsibility of anyone else to take the blame. Then again you would see doctors arrested who didn't follow a nonsense regulation and didn't let their patients die because of it. That's a great health care system you envision, Comrade.
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Yeah, I am sure if he was uninsured, like you are OK with 30M Americans being, he would be doing just fine 😀
 
FerrelGeek said:
But liberals in congress voted for it. So much for sticking to principles. Obama, Pelosi and Reid had to bribe and threaten members of their own party to vote for this. Again, so much for principles.

And of course the program is going to cost more than projected. The projections were a flat out lie to make it easier to extort votes from their own party.
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This was never about providing quality care. It was about saying that something was done before an election. Throw in a bunch of stuff and stir. Then ignore any negative consequences and point to the good ideas and say that anyone who opposes the package is basically evil. Party uber alles.
 
senseamp said:
Yeah, I am sure if he was uninsured, like you are OK with 30M Americans being, he would be doing just fine 😀
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So why weren't you out there insisting this be done right the first time? Because you didn't care as long as control passes to those you want to have it, and consequences be damned.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
So why weren't you out there insisting this be done right the first time? Because you didn't care as long as control passes to those you want to have it, and consequences be damned.
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I don't care about control as long as the uninsured are covered. Control is a right wing paranoia thing, I am more interested in the results.
 
senseamp said:
I don't care about control as long as the uninsured are covered. Control is a right wing paranoia thing, I am more interested in the results.
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Then why didn't you object to this POS and join others in supporting that things were done properly? Insuring more people is desirable, but it's not health care. There's more trouble brewing than these dopes in DC want to know or are capable of dealing with so they ignore it and things will get worse not better. If those who wish to hand the whole system over to political ambitious fools get their way then Cthulhu help us.

That people don't want good solutions thought out in advance of implementation is staggering.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Then why didn't you object to this POS and join others in supporting that things were done properly? Insuring more people is desirable, but it's not health care. There's more trouble brewing than these dopes in DC want to know or are capable of dealing with so they ignore it and things will get worse not better. If those who wish to hand the whole system over to political ambitious fools get their way then Cthulhu help us.

That people don't want good solutions thought out in advance of implementation is staggering.
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I support universal single payer. But who are these "others" who want things "done properly?" Last I checked the people who voted against this did absolutely nothing about health care while the number of uninsured kept growing. (Aside from expanding Medicare RX bennies, how much was that over estimates?)
 
zsdersw said:
Actually, liberals want everyone on Medicare; full universal healthcare. They compromised and accepted this turd and defend Obama for it.
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Im pretty liberal on this issue and i dont know any liberals who defend Obama on this. They all think this compromise sucked and welcome true UHC with open arms. This healthcare plans sucks ass and everyone knows it. But that is what happens when you let lobbyists get their ways.
 
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