Obamacare to be MUCH MUCH More Expensive than promised!

[Hayabusa Rider]

I support universal single payer. But who are these "others" who want things "done properly?" Last I checked the people who voted against this did absolutely nothing about health care while the number of uninsured kept growing. (Aside from expanding Medicare RX bennies, how much was that over estimates?)

The people who voted for this didn't want things done well either. The problem is politics first. If you were against obamacare you were against reform. I remember that well when the Dems circled the wagons just the same as the Reps did with Iraq. In fact I coined the term "healthocons" then to describe those who had to have this no matter the consequences. If it did one thing right and ten badly then all that was seen was the former.

This leads to a bigger point though. Our system of creating laws and regulations has become completely inadequate. Ultimately decisions are made by the uneducated and ignorant, driven by political considerations more than anything else. The complexities of modern life are beyond the ability of any generalist to understand when hundreds of other decisions are waiting to be made all competing for limited time.

I believe it's time we consider involving experts in sifting through the quagmires before deciding on a course of action in order to provide the best informed opinions. Congressional aides no longer cut it.

 

[bfdd]

I support a universal single payer as well, but EVERYONE must pitch in or else I don't care at all if they have coverage or not. I mean if you aren't willing to work for society, why should society work for you?

 

[senseamp]

The people who voted for this didn't want things done well either. The problem is politics first. If you were against obamacare you were against reform. I remember that well when the Dems circled the wagons just the same as the Reps did with Iraq. In fact I coined the term "healthocons" then to describe those who had to have this no matter the consequences. If it did one thing right and ten badly then all that was seen was the former.

This leads to a bigger point though. Our system of creating laws and regulations has become completely inadequate. Ultimately decisions are made by the uneducated and ignorant, driven by political considerations more than anything else. The complexities of modern life are beyond the ability of any generalist to understand when hundreds of other decisions are waiting to be made all competing for limited time.

I believe it's time we consider involving experts in sifting through the quagmires before deciding on a course of action in order to provide the best informed opinions. Congressional aides no longer cut it.

You asked me why I didn't join others who wanted this done right. Who are these "others" you referred to?

 

[soulcougher73]

Show me liberals who didn't vote for Obamacare.

I didnt and i want UHC. Obamacare is a insurance companies wet dream. Nothing to do with helping people.

 

[senseamp]

Im pretty liberal on this issue and i dont know any liberals who defend Obama on this. They all think this compromise sucked and welcome true UHC with open arms. This healthcare plans sucks ass and everyone knows it. But that is what happens when you let lobbyists get their ways.

I defend Obama on it. To get to universal single payer, we needed to get the individual mandate out of the way, otherwise Republicans would bring it up as their alternative if universal single payer ever became a possibility, like it did in the 90s. Obama just poisoned that well for the conservatives. So even if Obamacare is overturned, next time there is attempt to reform health care, it will be between doing nothing and Medicare for all.

 

[monovillage]

I defend Obama on it. To get to universal single payer, we needed to get the individual mandate out of the way, otherwise Republicans would bring it up as their alternative if universal single payer ever became a possibility, like it did in the 90s. Obama just poisoned that well for the conservatives. So even if Obamacare is overturned, next time there is attempt to reform health care, it will be between doing nothing and Medicare for all.

The ends justify the means.

 

[HomerJS]

Wouldn't have been an issue if we hadn't gone into Iraq.

 

[woolfe9999]

Not only did the OP misrepresent what is in the linked article, but the linked article is a pile of horseshit in its own right.

The CBO originally gave not one, but TWO estimates of the cost/revenue balance for the bill: one at 10 years out, and another at 20 years out. The GOP quoted in the article are now claiming this is a bait and switch, that it was purposefully evaluated to 10 years to hide the true cost. What estimate will they next claim should have been made? 15 years? 27.5 years?

If the GOP was looking for a Big Cost Number they already had a much bigger one back when the bill was under debate, and in fact they touted that bigger number at the time. Now THIS is news?

Total thread fail and total Faux News fail.

 

[woolfe9999]

double post

 

[soundforbjt]

Not only did the OP misrepresent what is in the linked article, but the linked article is a pile of horseshit in its own right.

The CBO originally gave not one, but TWO estimates of the cost/revenue balance for the bill: one at 10 years out, and another at 20 years out. The GOP quoted in the article are now claiming this is a bait and switch, that it was purposefully evaluated to 10 years to hide the true cost. What estimate will they next claim should have been made? 15 years? 27.5 years?

If the GOP was looking for a Big Cost Number they already had a much bigger one back when the bill was under debate, and in fact they touted that bigger number at the time. Now THIS is news?

Total thread fail and total Faux News fail.

OP constantly links to Fox articles, he thinks they are "Fair and Balanced" towards his beliefs.

 

[woolfe9999]

OP constantly links to Fox articles, he thinks they are "Fair and Balanced" towards his beliefs.

Honestly I could care less about Hannity and all the pundits there. It's their fact reporting that is insidious. This is just another typical example.

Mention that a 13 year estimate is higher than a 10-year estimate, as if that is news. Then quote republicans claiming that the true cost of the bill was hidden. But make sure not to remind the reader that the original CBO estimates went out to 20 full years, and also fail to mention that at the time the GOP was waiving this 20-year price tag around like it was the coming Armageddon. Nothing pisses me off more than misleading readers about the facts.

 

[soundforbjt]

Honestly I could care less about Hannity and all the pundits there. It's their fact reporting that is insidious. This is just another typical example.

Mention that a 13 year estimate is higher than a 10-year estimate, as if that is news. Then quote republicans claiming that the true cost of the bill was hidden. But make sure not to remind the reader that the original CBO estimates went out to 20 full years, and also fail to mention that at the time the GOP was waiving this 20-year price tag around like it was the coming Armageddon. Nothing pisses me off more than misleading readers about the facts.

You just described their methods to a "T". There's so many examples of them doing this for years, yet their faithful never seem to notice. Probably why they "use" so many hot women there to confuse those that watch.

 

[NeoV]

and suddenly it's very quiet in here from the circle-jerkers attacking Obama...

 

[woolfe9999]

You just described their methods to a "T". There's so many examples of them doing this for years, yet their faithful never seem to notice. Probably why they "use" so many hot women there to confuse those that watch.

The cognitive dissonance of their listeners is mind boggling. Anyone who actually followed this bill at all, as it was extensively covered for close to a full year, even if you followed it through the filter of Faux News itself, has to remember that the CBO gave a 10 year and a year 20 estimate. I can see not remembering this if you're senile or if you didn't follow it much at the time, but otherwise I see no excuse. These people are being lied to but more importantly, they are lying to themselves.

 

[bfdd]

and suddenly it's very quiet in here from the circle-jerkers attacking Obama...

Only idiots would attack Obama over "Obamacare". Please, we have plenty of legislators who deserve attacking based on this subject before that gentleman. Seriously some of you guys give the president way to much credit. The dude isn't a goddamn dictator, he's mostly a figure head.

 

[dank69]

and suddenly it's very quiet in here from the circle-jerkers attacking Obama...

Shira pointed it out all the way back in post 13 and that didn't stop them.

 

[woolfe9999]

I'll make the following gentlemanly wager of pride to anyone interested. I'll bet that in another approximately 2-3 years, the CBO will give another 10 year out estimate, which will be about 15 years out from the original bill, because they are charged with continually updating their projections. And I'll bet that this will once again appear at Faux News as a Shocking New Revelation that the cost estimate for the original bill has once again been higher than the original estimate. Wash, rinse, repeat every couple of years when the CBO makes a new projection 10 years out from whenever the estimate is given.

 

[Ninjahedge]

This is a bunch of BS.


Obamacare DOES suck, but this story is just plain stupid.

What should have been focused on is a universal PHCS that works on the base level of preventative care and general practitioners.

You KEEP people healthy, you get better production and less cost. You eliminate the middleman and you instantly get a savings.

You eliminate things like uncontrolled pharmaceutical costs (cover generic with marginal coverage of trademarked/patented drugs) and expensive special surgeries beyond appendix or tonsil surgeries and you get a very affordable general plan.

THEN the "American People" can start deciding whether or not they want to pay to insure themselves against the true life-ruining risks of Cancer et all.

This bill just does too little for too many different things.

 

[woolfe9999]

Shira pointed it out all the way back in post 13 and that didn't stop them.

Shira made the first valid point, that the CBO was projecting 3 years further out. That, however, only contradicted the OP's misrepresentation of the article. I can't recall him mentioning that the CBO also gave a 20 year out projection which makes the article itself bunk. That point makes this doubly worse, because the GOP is claiming that the cost was hidden since only a 10 year estimate was made.

No matter. Both points will be ignored by opponents of the bill.

 

[Ausm]

Show me liberals who didn't vote for Obamacare.

There is a difference between Liberals/progressives/Democrats and Liberals/Progressives/Democrats in Congress.

 

[senseamp]

The ends justify the means.

The ends are providing health coverage to everyone.
The means are implementing a conservative idea to see if it works. If it does, great, if not, knowing that it doesn't work is great too. Since the status quo wasn't working either, still a step forward.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Shira made the first valid point, that the CBO was projecting 3 years further out. That, however, only contradicted the OP's misrepresentation of the article. I can't recall him mentioning that the CBO also gave a 20 year out projection which makes the article itself bunk. That point makes this doubly worse, because the GOP is claiming that the cost was hidden since only a 10 year estimate was made.

No matter. Both points will be ignored by opponents of the bill.

It's still the wrong solution for the wrong problem. Why didn't we have a comprehensive examination in advance of legislation? Because of political expediency? You bet it is. There is neither wit nor will to tackle health care and make it what it ought to be. You might as well say the solution to bad jurisprudence is to build more court houses.

 

[Ausm]

Yeah actually liberals such as myself want much more government spending than this on health care, we want full single payer health care. The fact that health care is expensive is most certainly a no shit sherlock.

BTW, did anyone notice that the article states that this new analysis shows that the ACA will reduce the deficit by even more than previously stated? Full deficit reduction due to the ACA now tops $1.1 trillion for those of you that don't like deficits.

Deficits only matter to Rightists when the President has a "D" after his last name.

 

[Throckmorton]

The main point of "Obamacare" isn't to cover people. It's to force them to buy insurance.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The main point of "Obamacare" isn't to cover people. It's to force them to buy insurance.

Then give people a dollar for dollar tax credit towards premiums if they do.