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Obamacare is "repealed" in the House

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zsdersw said:
No, this was just grandstanding because there's nothing to lose by doing it... and for politicians their #1 goal is avoiding things that cost them.
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It was also grandstanding because they decided to play politics and call the bill "Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act." In addition, if they wanted to replace, they could have repealed and replaced in one bill instead of repeal and promise (LOL) to replace with something better at a later date.

I'm certainly not happy with the health care reform bill in its present form, but it is a step in the right direction. IMO, it's better that there is something on the books that can be reformed as problems arise or just made better. If there was nothing passed, the issue would have been dead for a long time. I am annoyed at the fact that they did not just build a system based off of one of the many examples that exist today - pick the best of each system.

As for the Republicans being "shut-out". What a bogus claim. They were given plenty of opportunity to participate, but instead of participating, they just screamed "No!" and propagated bullshit nonsense like "death panels" and "socialism".
 
The Republicans were given every chance to vote for a Democrat-crafted bill to which they were fundamentally opposed. The bill passed by a strict partisan vote; opposition on the other hand was bipartisan, as some House Democrats voted against Obamacare. That some aspects of the very large bill resemble parts of a bill once put forth by a Republican does not make it a Republican bill.
 
And - I have to think there would be a number of people who would shout 'They didn't keep their campaign promise to repeal the health care act' if they didn't try. I mean if they got elected and one of their big promises was to try and repeal the act and they follow through on that promise, how is this a bad thing?

umbrella39 said:
People are waking up it seems. My 22 in AZ who is working part time and taking part time classes is now covered under my insurance at work. I'm supposed to be upset over this.
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I am upset that I am forced to subsidize your decision to breed
 
I don't get why anybody would criticize them for doing something futile. Duh, it's a symbolic action that they promised to do.

I'm all for them being on the public record as physically passing a bill to repeal healthcare reform, with a petty and stupid name, without an alternative, and with the impractical promise to reinstate the preexisting conditions coverage without a mandate (on the record as not understanding insurance).
 
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werepossum said:
The Republicans were given every chance to vote for a Democrat-crafted bill to which they were fundamentally opposed. The bill passed by a strict partisan vote; opposition on the other hand was bipartisan, as some House Democrats voted against Obamacare. That some aspects of the very large bill resemble parts of a bill once put forth by a Republican does not make it a Republican bill.
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It was a compromise bill. It contained major Republican ideas like the individual mandate. Republicans and conservative Democrats even killed public option, and still Republicans didn't vote for the bill.

Republicans chose to oppose healthcare reform to score political points. The fact that their strategy is being "party of no" doesn't mean that every single bill is a partisan democratic socialist Hugo Chavez bill.
 
Originally Posted by IGBT
the repeal vote got more votes the the approval vote that made it law.


Gee garhootie, how wondrous, but under our system of governance, it means absolutely nothing. Its gotta pass in the Senate to even get a veto from the executive branch. In short the GOP is pulling a grand standing stunt they know can never work. Because its a gonna die in the Senate.
 
her209 said:
alg_healthcare2.jpg


healthcare_summit.gi.top.jpg


esq-health-care-summit-022510-lg.jpg


I recall the bill going to the different committees and was held up in the Finance Committee for the longest time.

The Republicans had multiple opportunities to have input in the bill but they stomped their feet and threw their tantrums like little children.
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pcgeek11 said:
The pictures in your post are NOT from any of the committee meetings developing the bill. They were from the Blair House Meeting after the fact. It was presidential grandstanding at its finest.

President Barack Obama, meets with Republican and Democratic leaders to discuss health care reform at the Blair House in Washington on Thursday, February 25, 2010. " Tuesday, the White House released a letter to congressional leadership from President Barack Obama which points to several GOP suggestions from last week’s health care reform summit targeted at improving the existing health care reform legislation already passed by the House and the Senate.


Your post fails.
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her209,

When are you going to answer why you misrepresented these pictures you posted? You're not are you? I figured as much. You posted it, you own it.

Your credibility is ZERO.
 
pcgeek11 said:
her209,

When are you going to answer why you misrepresented these pictures you posted? You're not are you? I figured as much. You posted it, you own it.

Your credibility is ZERO.
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It gave the GOP a public format to discuss their differences and ideas for change the bill. Some of the ideas GOP leaders discussed during that meeting were incorporated into the bill. If I remember correctly, they secured some funding for examining tort reform, as well as some other stuff. Not to mention there were what...3 Senate committees, at least one of which was bi-partisan through much of the process, that worked on the actual legislation?

When are you going to stop spewing the talking point gibberish that Republicans were "shut out"? It's so freaking goofy, and easily shown through video documentation to be false, that I really don't know if there is any hope for you. Many of those GOP Congressman and Senators CHOSE not to participate in crafting the legislation as a political maneuver. Stop acting like Democrats barricaded the door.

Look up the words "loony" and "credibility." I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Oh, as an FYI...here are where MANY of the ideas came from. Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993. Note the sponsors. Oh yeah, its 600 pages long.
 
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pcgeek11 said:
her209,

When are you going to answer why you misrepresented these pictures you posted? You're not are you? I figured as much. You posted it, you own it.

Your credibility is ZERO.
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pcgeek11,

Why can't you accept that you misrepresented that the Republicans were shut out?

Your intelligence is ZERO.
 
pcgeek11 said:
Sorry, but I ignore idiots with nothing to say... 🙁
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OK, how 'bout this then: Everyone in this thread can obviously see that you're on the losing end of whatever argument you're trying make and that you're digging yourself deeper and deeper in the hole by being childishly stubborn about it.

"Prepare an exit strategy and think things through or you may commit yourself to a position that is impossible to defend". - Debate 101

Howz'zat? :biggrin:

edit - correction
 
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Why is it, when suggested that those repubs railing against gov't run healthcare should be true to their convictions and opt out of their free gov't supplied health benefits as House members... only 3 out of 242 would?

hypocrites,
 
soundforbjt said:
Why is it, when suggested that those repubs railing against gov't run healthcare should be true to their convictions and opt out of their free gov't supplied health benefits as House members... only 3 out of 242 would?

hypocrites,
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Because leading by example is impossible for them. Their actions and words are all aimed at regaining full control of the gov't. For them, nothing else matters. To lead by example would show their true nature and intent, which runs counter to their modus operandi: Say one thing for appeasement, but do the opposite for effect.

By their very nature and ideology, they are takers, not givers.
 
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her209 said:
pcgeek11,

Why can't you accept that you misrepresented that the Republicans were shut out?

Your intelligence is ZERO.
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I guess the same reason you cannot admit you posted some bullshit pictures and tried to pass them off as something that they were not.

🙂
 
Blackjack200 said:
Well, if they were interested in serving their consituents instead of serving themselves they could have done what happens on pretty much all other legislation: compromised with the other pary to deliver some of what they promised even if all of it was impossible.

Instead they decided to grandstand. What's next? Vote to ban abortion? Go back to the gold standard? Flat tax?

Go for it tea bagger GOPs, the stage is yours. Make sure you read the constitution before everything you do too.
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Looks like some people should have been listening to the Constitution being read
 
Throckmorton said:
I don't get why anybody would criticize them for doing something futile. Duh, it's a symbolic action that they promised to do.
-snip-
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Might be futile, might not.

But I think it's the first step in a long march.

I think the Dems would like to consider HC a closed matter now that they got Obamacare passed and just move on.

But I don't think the Repubs will let that happen. I think we're going to be having debates about HC through the next election cycle and beyond, particularly as new elements in Obamacare continue to be placed into effect. What is it, 2014 before it becomes fully effective? Then for some time after that we'll judging the effectiveness of the different elements.

I don't know if Obamacare will be repealed, but I'm confident it will never be implemented in it's current form.

If Obamacare ends up being repealed or substantially modifed then this 1st step will not have been futile.

Fern
 
Carmen813 said:
It gave the GOP a public format to discuss their differences and ideas for change the bill. Some of the ideas GOP leaders discussed during that meeting were incorporated into the bill. If I remember correctly, they secured some funding for examining tort reform, as well as some other stuff. Not to mention there were what...3 Senate committees, at least one of which was bi-partisan through much of the process, that worked on the actual legislation?

When are you going to stop spewing the talking point gibberish that Republicans were "shut out"? It's so freaking goofy, and easily shown through video documentation to be false, that I really don't know if there is any hope for you. Many of those GOP Congressman and Senators CHOSE not to participate in crafting the legislation as a political maneuver. Stop acting like Democrats barricaded the door.

Look up the words "loony" and "credibility." I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Oh, as an FYI...here are where MANY of the ideas came from. Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993. Note the sponsors. Oh yeah, its 600 pages long.
Click to expand...
President Obama truly showed that he is the Messiah by incorporating ideas from the February 25th, 2010 Blair House debate into a bill passed by the Senate on November 24th 2009 and passed without change by the House on March 21st, 2010. Having demonstrated the ability to travel back in time (a feat not accomplished by even the soon to be sainted Pope John Paul), surely he managed to insert all the good Republicans ideas, leaving no logical reason for their opposition except pure cussedness. Anything else is clearly freaking goofy Republican talking point gibberish; the very fact that Obama met with Republicans months after the bill was passed clearly indicates the bipartisanship of Walks-On-Water.

Here is the listing of the bill's amendments. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/amendments?page=1
(Note that the description is to revise the tax code for first time home buyers who are military or federal employees. Don't let that fool you. Constitutionally all spending bills must originate in the House, but the Senators don't like limits on their power, so they commonly take a spending bill from the House and make it whatever they want at the time. This is a Senate thing, not a Democrat thing.)

Peruse all fifty-one pages of amendments. The only successful Republican participation is David Vitter's amendment to prevent the recommendation for limiting mammograms to be enforced. But the Democrats were participating, right? The noble Democrats were standing up for the best interests of their constituents, right? Well, not exactly. All other amendments listed as passed are by Harry Reid. The conceit that this bill was carefully crafted by a bi-partisan team of legislators is pure bunk. This bill was crafted by a very small number of very powerful Senators - as most are, and again like most was probably actually authored by a variety of special interests and pulled together by Reid's staff - and passed almost exactly as written. With the notable exception of Vitter's amendment, all the Amendments were wholesale substitutions by Reid as the bill was updated, all passed by party line votes. (Vitter's was passed by voice vote; everyone wants healthy boobies.) It is the Party bill, and for some reason Republicans failed to accept their Messiah-given role - which evidently was to laud it loudly and nothing else.

This was followed up by the quickly written Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, which did away some of the more embarrassing aspects of PPACA and added the things Pelosi had promised her more liberal House Democrats to persuade them to vote for PPACA. Note again that Republicans failed to get a single amendment passed. (I'll leave it to those who care to discover exactly how many were NOT shot down by party line votes.) Once again support was purely partisan, but this time opposition was bipartisan in the Senate as well as in the House. Nonetheless, because Democrats put this inside the yearly reconciliation bill, they managed not only to do away with the most politically damaging aspects of PPACA and get what the House Democrat leadership wanted, but as a bonus got student loan reform. Now if you work for the federal government - suffering through earning more money, having better benefits, and enjoying ironclad job security compared to the equivalent private sector smucks who pay your salary - you may be eligible to have your student loans forgiven! Let the working class pay your student loans for you, they're all Republicans anyway! (I'll stop for a moment to let the cheering subside.) The Republicans did manage to get two Pell Grant provisions struck down - not because of Democrat participation, but because they were not legal within a reconciliation bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_and_Education_Reconciliation_Act_of_2010

To re-emphasize:
In the Senate, the bill faced numerous amendments made by the Republicans, all of which failed.
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Feel free to bash and refute with irate Daily Kos articles, I'm off for an all-night session to finish designing a theater and shan't be back tonight. And don't take me too seriously, Carmen, I'm not angry or anything. You know I still love you, man, I'm just ragging on you. And I will look at that bill when I have more time. I already suspect the parts of Obamacare I like are Republican ideas. 😀
 
her209 said:
How are they bullshit? How did I to pass them off?

😀
Click to expand...

My god you are thick:

Originally Posted by pcgeek11
You need to get out more. The Obamacare is 100% Dem bill. They shuttered out the GOP and the US population as they developed the bill behind closed doors. Then Pelosi made the grand statement " You will know what is in the bill after it passes".

In response you posted the pictures of the Blair House meeting held AFTER the HC Bill was passed. With this comment:

Originally Posted by her209
I recall the bill going to the different committees and was held up in the Finance Committee for the longest time.

The Republicans had multiple opportunities to have input in the bill but they stomped their feet and threw their tantrums like little children.

That was how. It was a clear misrepresentation of the photos.
 
werepossum said:
President Obama truly showed that he is the Messiah by incorporating ideas from the February 25th, 2010 Blair House debate into a bill passed by the Senate on November 24th 2009 and passed without change by the House on March 21st, 2010. Having demonstrated the ability to travel back in time (a feat not accomplished by even the soon to be sainted Pope John Paul), surely he managed to insert all the good Republicans ideas, leaving no logical reason for their opposition except pure cussedness. Anything else is clearly freaking goofy Republican talking point gibberish; the very fact that Obama met with Republicans months after the bill was passed clearly indicates the bipartisanship of Walks-On-Water.

Here is the listing of the bill's amendments. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3590/amendments?page=1
(Note that the description is to revise the tax code for first time home buyers who are military or federal employees. Don't let that fool you. Constitutionally all spending bills must originate in the House, but the Senators don't like limits on their power, so they commonly take a spending bill from the House and make it whatever they want at the time. This is a Senate thing, not a Democrat thing.)

Peruse all fifty-one pages of amendments. The only successful Republican participation is David Vitter's amendment to prevent the recommendation for limiting mammograms to be enforced. But the Democrats were participating, right? The noble Democrats were standing up for the best interests of their constituents, right? Well, not exactly. All other amendments listed as passed are by Harry Reid. The conceit that this bill was carefully crafted by a bi-partisan team of legislators is pure bunk. This bill was crafted by a very small number of very powerful Senators - as most are, and again like most was probably actually authored by a variety of special interests and pulled together by Reid's staff - and passed almost exactly as written. With the notable exception of Vitter's amendment, all the Amendments were wholesale substitutions by Reid as the bill was updated, all passed by party line votes. (Vitter's was passed by voice vote; everyone wants healthy boobies.) It is the Party bill, and for some reason Republicans failed to accept their Messiah-given role - which evidently was to laud it loudly and nothing else.

This was followed up by the quickly written Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, which did away some of the more embarrassing aspects of PPACA and added the things Pelosi had promised her more liberal House Democrats to persuade them to vote for PPACA. Note again that Republicans failed to get a single amendment passed. (I'll leave it to those who care to discover exactly how many were NOT shot down by party line votes.) Once again support was purely partisan, but this time opposition was bipartisan in the Senate as well as in the House. Nonetheless, because Democrats put this inside the yearly reconciliation bill, they managed not only to do away with the most politically damaging aspects of PPACA and get what the House Democrat leadership wanted, but as a bonus got student loan reform. Now if you work for the federal government - suffering through earning more money, having better benefits, and enjoying ironclad job security compared to the equivalent private sector smucks who pay your salary - you may be eligible to have your student loans forgiven! Let the working class pay your student loans for you, they're all Republicans anyway! (I'll stop for a moment to let the cheering subside.) The Republicans did manage to get two Pell Grant provisions struck down - not because of Democrat participation, but because they were not legal within a reconciliation bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_and_Education_Reconciliation_Act_of_2010

To re-emphasize:


Feel free to bash and refute with irate Daily Kos articles, I'm off for an all-night session to finish designing a theater and shan't be back tonight. And don't take me too seriously, Carmen, I'm not angry or anything. You know I still love you, man, I'm just ragging on you. And I will look at that bill when I have more time. I already suspect the parts of Obamacare I like are Republican ideas. 😀
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Dude, I wrote a response regarding the health care stuff, but I think you are just messing with me. Find me a single time when I've linked from DailyKOS. I don't even visit that website, so I can't imagine it's ever happened. I will say that I consider the Democrats reform plan a damn sight better than anything the GOP proposed, and I read them all. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it good? I think it does more good than harm, but it's far from ideal. From my perspective, the GOP made the health care debate into a political game. Their proposals were gimmicky, vague, and weak. I read every single one of them and was constantly infuriated by what I saw. Why? Because this is an area that has severely impacted me on a personal level and not a god damn game. I actually care about policy because it impacts lives, both my own and that of my clients.

As for the loan program you bashed, do you actually know anything about it? I've looked into it because it's one of the few things that might make public service in my field worth entering. In particular, I want to work for the VA with Combat Vets, but it's hard for various reasons in my field and the pay isn't great, but there is tremendous need because we seem to enjoy fighting wars. The loan forgiveness makes doing so possible. It requires you work for 10 years, make all of your payments on time, and then the rest is waived tax free. You need to work in areas where there are critical shortages of professionals in your field. This same program is available if you work private sector and make payments for 25 years, but the waived amount is taxable. It is for people who enter health care and education. This is similar to how ROTC Scholarships work: we pay for school, you serve. Oh, and it stopped cut $70 billion from the deficit by stopping one form of corporate welfare to banks.
 
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