Obama working to create unsecured boarder with Mexico

[michal1980]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/19/obama-designate-national-monument-new-mexico/

Mr. Obama will declare about 500,000 acres as the Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National Monument. About half of that land is expected to be set aside as wilderness, meaning it will be closed to vehicles and construction. ... Administration officials said the declaration will incorporate a 2006 agreement between the Interior Department and the Homeland Security Department that allows U.S. Border Patrol some access to the land.
That agreement prevents most routine patrols through wilderness, though it does allow them to continue to follow smugglers in hot pursuit

Why even bother having a border and laws? Just let all Mexicans become USA citizens whenever they want.

When will this president work to strength our borders and laws, instead of contest pandering to illegal immigrants?


and then he and the democrats wonder why there are plenty of republicans that don't want to pass the amnesty bill. Its because we know he wont enforce any of the boarder laws, and just allow any and all illegals to entire the country. All the while lowering wages, and increasing the burden on public services.

 

[mrjminer]

So, it's just the current border situation, but without a wall?

 

[shortylickens]

This isnt news.

We all know he loves illegals, mexican illegals especially.

I promise you if most illegal aliens were white the liberals and democrats would NOT be bending over backwards for them.

 

[michal1980]

So, it's just the current border situation, but without a wall?

No its worse, because at least right now we can attempt to patrol the border, after this we wont.

Basically telling all the illegals where to cross.

 

[Wreckem]

You do realize the closet land to the border starts 10 miles inland right? I am pretty sure the goal of border security is to stop them at the border, not 10 miles inland.

And the alleged wilderness areas inside the national monument have to be approved by Congress.

 

[mrjminer]

No its worse, because at least right now we can attempt to patrol the border, after this we wont.

Basically telling all the illegals where to cross.

You do realize the closet land to the border starts 10 miles inland right? I am pretty sure the goal of border security is to stop them at the border, not 10 miles inland.

And the alleged wilderness areas inside the national monument have to be approved by Congress.

Yea, they would still get to patrol the surrounding area. I'm too lazy to check the article or look it up, but this would increase the border patrol area, and I would guess that would result in increased cost of having the same efficacy as the current border. Depending on the cost of the wall and wall maintenance. As to whether or not they would increase the budget of the border patrol accordingly to accommodate is a question -- and whether the net result would be a deficit if it would cost more than the wall and maintenance.

 

[michal1980]

You do realize the closet land to the border starts 10 miles inland right? I am pretty sure the goal of border security is to stop them at the border, not 10 miles inland.

And the alleged wilderness areas inside the national monument have to be approved by Congress.

per the article

"The monument would cover hundreds of thousands of acres right next to the Mexican border."

from this map it looks far closer then 10 miles http://www.organmtnfriends.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Proposed-Organ-Mts-Desert-Peaks-NM.pdf

 

[brycejones]

per the article

"The monument would cover hundreds of thousands of acres right next to the Mexican border."

from this map it looks far closer then 10 miles http://www.organmtnfriends.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Proposed-Organ-Mts-Desert-Peaks-NM.pdf

Well the article is wrong.

Based on the map from your link its ~5 miles from the border. Plenty of room for the border patrol to patrol and fortify the border.

 

[CLite]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/19/obama-designate-national-monument-new-mexico/




Why even bother having a border and laws? Just let all Mexicans become USA citizens whenever they want.

When will this president work to strength our borders and laws, instead of contest pandering to illegal immigrants?


and then he and the democrats wonder why there are plenty of republicans that don't want to pass the amnesty bill. Its because we know he wont enforce any of the boarder laws, and just allow any and all illegals to entire the country. All the while lowering wages, and increasing the burden on public services.

Welcome to Stewox status. Let me guess the UN blue helmets are involved somehow?

 

[MongGrel]

Welcome to Stewox status. Let me guess the UN blue helmets are involved somehow?

:biggrin:

 

[MasterOfUsers]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/19/obama-designate-national-monument-new-mexico/




Why even bother having a border and laws? Just let all Mexicans become USA citizens whenever they want.

When will this president work to strength our borders and laws, instead of contest pandering to illegal immigrants?


and then he and the democrats wonder why there are plenty of republicans that don't want to pass the amnesty bill. Its because we know he wont enforce any of the boarder laws, and just allow any and all illegals to entire the country. All the while lowering wages, and increasing the burden on public services.

In reality this Obama administration has deported more illegal immigrants than any other administration in the history of the US and unlike Reagan who's amnesty bill didn't ask for enforced border the only amnesty bill presented from this admin has been asking FOR enforced borders.

I understand the Liberal bill to enforce the border using forces that are today focused on finding illegal immigrants because it's an impossible task to find them compared to protecting the border.

So, while you are spewing your crap illegals are coming in while we spend a load of time trying to catch people who do not want to be found in a society full of people... This makes sense to you? This make more sense than to scrap searching for these people, giving them amnesty and citizenship so they can contribute to society legally while using that effort that doesn't make a shit of difference to enforce a border that isn't that big?

And no, this landmass isn't even close to the border so this is just retarded propaganda from a man who has no will to know what is true, only propagandise his own retarded idiocy.

 

[IronWing]

The Border Patrol has more than sufficient resources to secure the border. They choose not to. They would have to get out of their trucks or take time away from harassing U.S. citizens.

 

[Vic]

An anti immigration stance (ie a border wall, "illegal" immigrants, etc) is inconsistent with free market philosophy and non-statist liberty in general.

 

[michal1980]

In reality this Obama administration has deported more illegal immigrants than any other administration in the history of the US and unlike Reagan who's amnesty bill didn't ask for enforced border the only amnesty bill presented from this admin has been asking FOR enforced borders.

I understand the Liberal bill to enforce the border using forces that are today focused on finding illegal immigrants because it's an impossible task to find them compared to protecting the border.

So, while you are spewing your crap illegals are coming in while we spend a load of time trying to catch people who do not want to be found in a society full of people... This makes sense to you? This make more sense than to scrap searching for these people, giving them amnesty and citizenship so they can contribute to society legally while using that effort that doesn't make a shit of difference to enforce a border that isn't that big?

And no, this landmass isn't even close to the border so this is just retarded propaganda from a man who has no will to know what is true, only propagandise his own retarded idiocy.

1) Obama has not deported more illegals. That's just a lie.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...amned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/

2) Obama being for enforced boarders is like Obama enforcing drug police or Obamacare. He'll take amnesty and delay all enforcement.

3) According to the Washington this landmass is on the boarder. According to one group its really close.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

An anti immigration stance (ie a border wall, "illegal" immigrants, etc) is inconsistent with free market philosophy and non-statist liberty in general.

I would say that non-statist liberty is an oxymoron in today's world, your liberties are protected by the state.

 

[Vic]

I would say that non-statist liberty is an oxymoron in today's world, your liberties are protected by the state.

Liberties are inherent. The state can do nothing but force one to regret exercising them.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

1) Obama has not deported more illegals. That's just a lie. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...amned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/

Neat article, try reading it, it supports my point.

2) Obama being for enforced boarders is like Obama enforcing drug police or Obamacare. He'll take amnesty and delay all enforcement.

This is a retarded argument not worthy of a reply, if you can't see your problem being in conflict with reality and still spouting propaganda against that reality i cannot help you.

3) According to the Washington this landmass is on the boarder. According to one group its really close.

As previously shown, it's not really close, a five mile border is too fucking wide, it should be enforced within 100 yards if it is going to be successful, i'll give* you an example of how that is done, Israel. To take propaganda as truth and disregarding reality is a religious problem, it can only be dealt with by forcing people to be less religious regarding their beliefs, not everything is gods word because you heard it from a source you might associate with someone that proclaims to be speaking "gods truth". In the 1500's that would be grounds for torture.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

Liberties are inherent. The state can do nothing but force one to regret exercising them.

That is a stupid idea, liberties are inherent as long as they are protected, if they are no protected they can be taken away at any whim. Let's say the state doesn't exist and i want to dump shit in your drinking water, what the hell are you going to do about it? I've just bought the rights to do that from another land owner.

 

[brycejones]

3) According to the Washington this landmass is on the boarder. According to one group its really close.

So I'm curious how far from the border should we clear cut and tear down buildings so you feel like there is sufficient defense in depth?

 

[rudder]

In reality this Obama administration has deported more illegal immigrants than any other administration in the history of the US and unlike Reagan who's amnesty bill didn't ask for enforced border the only amnesty bill presented from this admin has been asking FOR enforced borders.

In reality morons keep saying the obama administration has deported more illegals than any other administration. You should have said the obama administration has changed the way deportations are counted (now counting turn arounds at the border) to make it look the the number of deportations is amazingly high.

Don't feel bad... obama's silver tongue has suckered a lot of other people as well.

 

[sportage]

Im confused. Keep them out or keep them in?
I mean really, why flee a third world country for another third world country?

 

[rudder]

Im confused. Keep them out or keep them in?
I mean really, why flee a third world country for another third world country?

Not quite a third world yet.... the U.S. can still sell debt so illegals can live much better than the country they came from.

 

[IronWing]

Can we ban michal1980 until he agrees to fix the spelling of border? If you're going to bitch about an issue you know little to nothing about, at least spell it correctly.

 

[nehalem256]

An anti immigration stance (ie a border wall, "illegal" immigrants, etc) is inconsistent with free market philosophy and non-statist liberty in general.

I don't think that is right. Unless "free market" is code for anarchy.

Even libertarians would claim that protecting property rights is the province of the state. Opposing illegal immigration is a natural extension of that.

 

[IronWing]

Here is the language of accompanying legislation to create the wilderness areas.

Here is a map of the Potrillo section of the monument, not a great map but it shows five miles between the proposed monument and the border. Other sections of the monument are farther from the border.

South of the proposed monument is a two mile zone that is proposed to be closed to motor vehicles except for law enforcement and border security. This is in the proposed legislation. We'll have to see what is included in Obama's proclamation.