Obama wants to grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Pathetic. This whole driver's license debate really just shifts the focus away from the problem of illegal immigration. We're not longer noticing that they violated the law big time by sneaking into our country, and we're turning this into a human rights issue. This is ridiculous. Come on. Deport them already.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: techs
Just like Republicans saying they will cut spending.

all politicians do what they need to do to get elected

Obama :thumbsdown:

Clinton :thumbsdown:

Romney :thumbsdown:

McCain :thumbsdown:

Pissed off at the status quo and not voting unless Ron Paul runs 3rd party :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Next year we can change our sig's to, "Don't blame me, I wasted a vote on Ron Paul."

fixed

Considering the choices, Moonbeam, it is not us who are wasting votes. 😉

I'm an idealist but I live in a real world. You should ask yourself, I think, why you hate government when the government is you.

I wouldn't say we hate government. I know government is needed but not at the current size nor any bigger. What needs to be bigger is personal liberties. But everyone including you are going to waste a vote for a status quo "winner". While you guys are bitching about how bad this president is, we will stand back and say "We told you so". In the end its your vote, but those who vote for more government have no moral right to bitch when it ends up biting them in the ass. Your Obama is hardly any "change" at all, just another man with a different viewpoint on how more government can be implemented.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: techs
Just like Republicans saying they will cut spending.

all politicians do what they need to do to get elected

Obama :thumbsdown:

Clinton :thumbsdown:

Romney :thumbsdown:

McCain :thumbsdown:

Pissed off at the status quo and not voting unless Ron Paul runs 3rd party :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Next year we can change our sig's to, "Don't blame me, I wasted a vote on Ron Paul."

fixed

Considering the choices, Moonbeam, it is not us who are wasting votes. 😉

I'm an idealist but I live in a real world. You should ask yourself, I think, why you hate government when the government is you.

You can ask me this after telling me I am wasting my vote? Think about it, Moonbeam, you're asking me to vote for someone I don't think has everything they need to be President. That I should vote for Obama because he has a better chance of winning. Then that I hate government because I am the one voting for bad candidates?

Come on, now, Moonie, I don't need to tell you what's wrong with that. 😀

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: Harvey
NO! Illegal aliens should NOT have any official, government issued documentation that even approches something that could be used to convince others they were anything but what they are... illegal.

I've seen nothing suggesting that Obama's proposal would do anything other than create drivers licenses which would be very visually different from those of legal US residents. This shouldn't particularly be useful for persuading anyone they are legal US citizens, and any sort of forgery probably is more effective for that already. Of course your other point about how its a policy that is decided by individual states is relevant regardless.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: loki8481
yeah... I mean, why on earth would we want to document and keep track of people who are in our country illegally? 😕

How about we document them at the fvcking border and send em packing?

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: Harvey
NO! Illegal aliens should NOT have any official, government issued documentation that even approches something that could be used to convince others they were anything but what they are... illegal.

:thumbsup:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Socio

The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."

That is a hell of a lot cheaper than what it cost us to keep them here!

No elected official in our national legislature would touch a bill that endorsed mass deportation. When our leaders don't want them out, they are never going out. They will be having kids (who will have full citizenship), raising families, working jobs, committing crimes, and driving cars, like the rest of us.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE HERE TO STAY. Once you admit that, then we can start discussing solutions to coexist more peacefully with them.

MASS DEPORTATION WILL NEVER HAPPEN. In all honesty, you would have to be certifiably insane to believe there is a real chance of it happening. The war on illegal immigration is a poorly funded, poorly executed dream, just like the war on drugs; and both are about as likely to succeed.

In closing, I would prefer that illegals in this country be allowed to get licenses and auto insurance. And I'm sure they would prefer driving around with a license and insurance vs. getting towed/detained every time they break a minor traffic law and get pulled over.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: FoBoT

Originally posted by: techs
Just like Republicans saying they will cut spending.

all politicians do what they need to do to get elected

Obama :thumbsdown:

Clinton :thumbsdown:

Romney :thumbsdown:

McCain :thumbsdown:

Pissed off at the status quo and not voting unless Ron Paul runs 3rd party :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Next year we can change our sig's to, "Don't blame me, I wasted a vote on Ron Paul."

fixed

Considering the choices, Moonbeam, it is not us who are wasting votes. 😉

I'm an idealist but I live in a real world. You should ask yourself, I think, why you hate government when the government is you.

You can ask me this after telling me I am wasting my vote? Think about it, Moonbeam, you're asking me to vote for someone I don't think has everything they need to be President. That I should vote for Obama because he has a better chance of winning. Then that I hate government because I am the one voting for bad candidates?

Come on, now, Moonie, I don't need to tell you what's wrong with that. 😀

Bad candidates? I told Obama to run and he announced the next day. You think I did that cause he's lousy. Hell no. He's Abraham Lincoln. You are obviously no advanced Lama like me.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bad candidates? I told Obama to run and he announced the next day. You think I did that cause he's lousy. Hell no. He's Abraham Lincoln. You are obviously no advanced Lama like me.

😀

Tell you what, if Paul isn't on the ballot, and Obama is, then Obama gets my vote.

If Paul is on the ballot as a 3rd party candidate, then the Democrats will win regardless. Paul will take enough votes away from whichever douchebag fake Republican gets the nomination.

All Obama has to do is get the nomination. That may not be an easy task though.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Farang
Give them licenses. I have an education so they aren't taking my job. Nor are they taking my tax dollars

LOL!! That's what you think! In fact, as am educated middle or upper class American, your dollars are exactly those being used to pay for many free handouts illegals already receive. (ie. the education of their children).

duh.

Actually many studies have shown illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in social benefits, as they are not eligible for social security, medicare, food stamps, etc. The notion of free handouts to illegal aliens is overblown.

show me ONE.

 

[1prophet]

Unless President Obama is somehow able to overturn the Real ID act this whole debate about giving licenses to illegals is just a farce to stir people up. Text

 

[IGBT]

..a KOOK idea from a KOOK. now who's surprised about this.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bad candidates? I told Obama to run and he announced the next day. You think I did that cause he's lousy. Hell no. He's Abraham Lincoln. You are obviously no advanced Lama like me.

😀

Tell you what, if Paul isn't on the ballot, and Obama is, then Obama gets my vote.

If Paul is on the ballot as a 3rd party candidate, then the Democrats will win regardless. Paul will take enough votes away from whichever douchebag fake Republican gets the nomination.

All Obama has to do is get the nomination. That may not be an easy task though.

Good, then I guess I can tell you that Paul is Patrick Henry.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bad candidates? I told Obama to run and he announced the next day. You think I did that cause he's lousy. Hell no. He's Abraham Lincoln. You are obviously no advanced Lama like me.

😀

Tell you what, if Paul isn't on the ballot, and Obama is, then Obama gets my vote.

If Paul is on the ballot as a 3rd party candidate, then the Democrats will win regardless. Paul will take enough votes away from whichever douchebag fake Republican gets the nomination.

All Obama has to do is get the nomination. That may not be an easy task though.

Good, then I guess I can tell you that Paul is Patrick Henry.

Give me Liberty, or give me Death!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I'm going to get myself a bunch of licenses and just use a new one every time I get pulled over.

Well if his plan is anything like the plan was in NY state all you will need is a big pile of valid foreign passports. You have those right? Everyone here complaining about this issue knows that at least for NY states plan you needed a valid foreign passport, a document far harder to get and to forge then a US driver's license.... right?

And exactly what percentage of those illegal immigrants picking vegetables and cleaning houses have passports? So who exactly is this program for? The wealthy person who overstayed their visa and doesn't want to get sent back?

Approximately 50% of illegal immigrants are visa overstays, why do you ask?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Farang
Give them licenses. I have an education so they aren't taking my job. Nor are they taking my tax dollars

LOL!! That's what you think! In fact, as am educated middle or upper class American, your dollars are exactly those being used to pay for many free handouts illegals already receive. (ie. the education of their children).

duh.

Actually many studies have shown illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in social benefits, as they are not eligible for social security, medicare, food stamps, etc. The notion of free handouts to illegal aliens is overblown.

show me ONE.

Well, that wasn't hard.

Happy now?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I'm going to get myself a bunch of licenses and just use a new one every time I get pulled over.

Well if his plan is anything like the plan was in NY state all you will need is a big pile of valid foreign passports. You have those right? Everyone here complaining about this issue knows that at least for NY states plan you needed a valid foreign passport, a document far harder to get and to forge then a US driver's license.... right?

And exactly what percentage of those illegal immigrants picking vegetables and cleaning houses have passports? So who exactly is this program for? The wealthy person who overstayed their visa and doesn't want to get sent back?

Approximately 50% of illegal immigrants are visa overstays, why do you ask?

That is correct. Most illegal immigrants outside of border states are over stayed visas. Most commonly over stayed student visas.

 

[Modelworks]

My concern with this is that once you have a DL you can then begin to make it appear that your are here 100% legally.
Once you have that DL you can open bank accounts, get loans, establish employment, etc.
The problem I have with that is that the people that just crossed the border, not referring to those here on visas, have no way of proving who they really are.

They could have been a murderer before entering the country and we would never know.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: babylon5
Nonsense. Like others pointed out, illegals are paying more in taxes than you. I don't know the exact figure, but each Illegal contribute probably at least thousands of dollars each year. They just give and give.

cough*bullshit*cough

there is an old saying...figures lie and liars figure....if that applies to anything it certainly applies to the notion that illegals pay their fair share of taxes.

Using the same logic that capital punishment costs more than life in prison because of the cost of the appellate process.

You can't take the cost of enforcing a law and use that to prove that it costs less to increase enforcement.
Illegal immigration is not going away. We can either help these people to achieve citizenship and assimilate into our society, as my forefathers did when your forefathers washed ashore (or vice versa, whatever), or you can keep playing the Nationalist bullsh!t crying about the cost of enforcing illegal immigration...

You are right, BUT it can be GREATLY reduced.

This is not the country of your forefathers...I know it gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling to think that they would greet each and every illegal that snuck across the border, but that is not the case....remember these are the same people that burned people at the stake for being witches.

They would be clammering for those borders to be sealed. as they should.

You get a few good engineers, some concrete, iron and non-violent criminals serving time and I guarantee you we can build a barrier that will significantly stem the tide of illegals flowing into this country....and it would cost less in the long AND short term to do that than it does to allow them to come in here and suck off our system and pay no taxes.

It is not about nationalism...it is about the fact that they are a 19th century mentality sneaking into a 21st century civilization and people like you will want use to dumb ourselves down to accommodate them. Pretty soon you will want to offer them free education just so they can get caught up to our standards.

How long has Mexico been around? Several hundred of years BEFORE this country and they have done what with their system? How many people other than criminals do you see sneaking across the border the other way?

They have had hundreds of years to make their country as good as this one and have failed....so then, what make you think they will contribute to this nation if they won't even build their own?

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

You get a few good engineers, some concrete, iron and non-violent criminals serving time and I guarantee you we can build a barrier that will significantly stem the tide of illegals flowing into this country....and it would cost less in the long AND short term to do that than it does to allow them to come in here and suck off our system and pay no taxes.

This is something that has always bothered me about the border problems.
The cost they associate with it and saying its too expensive , etc.
We are the country that did things like the alaska pipeline, the hoover dam, and yet we can't build a fence ?

Really you don't even need a fence.
Just put up cameras every 5000feet.
Yeah its a lot of cameras, but its not a technical issue. London has way more cameras than it would take and they do just fine.
Send it to a place to monitor it and station it there with troops with helicopters. Send them out when there is a problem.
I would rather see our military do that than die in iraq.

I live in a rural area and there are lots of illegals here.
How do I know they are illegal ?
They all work jobs on local farms that pay at the end of the day or week in cash only.
There was a local meat company here that got busted for hiring 75% of its workforce that were illegal. My brother got w2 statements for over 15 people in his mailbox.
All with latin names.
He asked about it at the county and was told that illegals often just pick a address out of the phone book for job applications.

And do not say "well they are doing jobs that noone else will do "
Thats a crock as well.
Before the illegals came here, the farms around here hired locally and paid upwards of 8-9.00 per hour. Now they pay 7.00 .
wonder why ?

Go to the local social services office and it is filled with latin women with children.
All receiving food stamps, medical coverage, rental assistance.
None of whom pay any taxes.

It must be nice , go to another country, have all the children you want, and the government will pay you for it without you paying anything.

 

[xochi]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Farang
Give them licenses. I have an education so they aren't taking my job. Nor are they taking my tax dollars

LOL!! That's what you think! In fact, as am educated middle or upper class American, your dollars are exactly those being used to pay for many free handouts illegals already receive. (ie. the education of their children).

duh.

Actually many studies have shown illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in social benefits, as they are not eligible for social security, medicare, food stamps, etc. The notion of free handouts to illegal aliens is overblown.

show me ONE.

Dallas Morning News - Texas Comptroller

Originally posted by: [/L]

from the article

And when it comes to taxes, illegal immigrants are a boon. They cost the state $1.16 billion in services, such as public health services and education, but they pay $1.58 billion every year in taxes and fees, according to the report, released Thursday.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I think I've just lost any enthusiasm I might have had for Obama.

<Sigh> Once again, all of the candidates are bad. The question is not, "Under which candidate's administration will the country rebound?" Rather, the question is, "Under which candidate will the rate of the nation's decline be the slowest?"

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
This no calculated move at all.
The illegals are already driving.....so whats the big issue....oh I get it they should continue to drive illegally and also if you are in an accident withy an uninsured motorist you are basically screwed...hmmm

What we should do is lure them to Secretary of State offices (or wherever) with the promise that they'll receive a driver's license. They should then be handcuffed and deported. The best way to keep illegal aliens from driving without licenses and insurance in the United States is...to boot them out of the United States.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: jpeytonAnd no, sadly, with the leaking sieve that describes our border with Mexico, illegals will not be removed from our country anytime soon. They are here to stay. Face it.

Only because we, as a nation, don't want to deport them. If we really wanted to get rid of the illegals, we could probably rid ourselves of 95% of them within less than a month. It's just a matter of having the desire to do it and the willingness to do whatever is necessary.

"If you are in the nation illegally after (three weeks from today) then we will imprison you and your organs will be used for organ transplants."

"If you are in the nation illegally three weeks from today, then you will have the right to receive a bullet through the back of your head."

"Any business owner who knowingly or recklessly employed illegal aliens will be shot and his assets will be seized."

I'm not advocating any of that. My point is merely that we could get rid of the illegals if we really wanted to.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: Wheezer

You get a few good engineers, some concrete, iron and non-violent criminals serving time and I guarantee you we can build a barrier that will significantly stem the tide of illegals flowing into this country....and it would cost less in the long AND short term to do that than it does to allow them to come in here and suck off our system and pay no taxes.

This is something that has always bothered me about the border problems.
The cost they associate with it and saying its too expensive , etc.
We are the country that did things like the alaska pipeline, the hoover dam, and yet we can't build a fence ?

Really you don't even need a fence.
Just put up cameras every 5000feet.
Yeah its a lot of cameras, but its not a technical issue. London has way more cameras than it would take and they do just fine.
Send it to a place to monitor it and station it there with troops with helicopters. Send them out when there is a problem.
I would rather see our military do that than die in iraq.

I live in a rural area and there are lots of illegals here.
How do I know they are illegal ?
They all work jobs on local farms that pay at the end of the day or week in cash only.
There was a local meat company here that got busted for hiring 75% of its workforce that were illegal. My brother got w2 statements for over 15 people in his mailbox.
All with latin names.
He asked about it at the county and was told that illegals often just pick a address out of the phone book for job applications.

And do not say "well they are doing jobs that noone else will do "
Thats a crock as well.
Before the illegals came here, the farms around here hired locally and paid upwards of 8-9.00 per hour. Now they pay 7.00 .
wonder why ?

Go to the local social services office and it is filled with latin women with children.
All receiving food stamps, medical coverage, rental assistance.
None of whom pay any taxes.

It must be nice , go to another country, have all the children you want, and the government will pay you for it without you paying anything.

If you do some research you will see that there is a significant number of illegals in the prison system.

Part of my idea would be to use the non-violent illegal alien offenders to construct a wall something along the lines of the Berlin wall.....much bigger. The cost we are paying to incarcerate them and give them 3 hots and a cot is more over the long haul than it would be to use them for construction and maintenance.

Then, after they are done....dump their asses on the other side with a thank you and slam the doors shut....let Mexico deal with it's own criminals.

well they are doing jobs that noone else will do

yeah that is BS...how many drop-outs do we have?

homeless?

Those with high functioning mental disorders that could and would do this kind of work?

yeah, there is no one that would do it.