Obama to ask G8 to suspend Russia

[Jaskalas]

How would you feel with the growing Hispanic population in Texas that one day they held a vote and thanks to the Mexican American majority the states voted for Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico to go back to Mexico?

I strongly support a people's right to self determination and your example is no exception. The people of a land own that land. It is not for outsiders to claim ownership over them, they are not slaves.

 

[Fayd]

Does Russia have the right to sanction the United States if California voted to return to Mexico?

not accurate analogy.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

not accurate analogy.

It's an accurate portrayal of the workings of his mind.

 

[Genx87]

I figured we were attempting pressure to force them back. Yet if we are thinking of it as a foregone conclusion that Russia will never leave Crimea, what is it that we're doing. Exacting an economic penalty?

Yes, letting them know invading a foreign country and annexing it will result in a poorly performing economy.

 

[Genx87]

That's an extremely poor analogy.

Here is a better one :

The US and Canada decide to merge and become one country, with Canada becoming a semi-autonomous province of the US.

30 years later the US gifts the state of Wisconsin to the Canadian Province of the USA. No one cares because it's still the USA.

Then 30 years after that, the US can't afford Canada's social programs so Canada - along with the Wisconsin - becomes a separate country again.

Then 30 years after that, with Canada-Wisconsin on our border, Canada's democratically elected gov't is overthrown and run out by "protesters", and a new unelected Canadian Gov't decides to become close allies of China - a known opponent / enemy of the US.

One of the first things this new "unelected democracy" does is tell Wisconsinites that they can't have media in English and their local Gov't functions will all be done in French.

People in Wisconsin, still being mostly "Americans" speaking English, ask the US to take them back.


What would you do?

Where is the ethnic cleansing of Wisconsin in your analogy?

 

[PokerGuy]

I don't have any problem with the bummer getting Russia kicked out of the G8. It's largely a symbolic thing anyway, it's not going to have any real effects. In fact, that's kind of the underlying reality here: if you strip away the bluster and politics, Russia has the military power on the ground, and the nukes to make sure nobody (like the US) interferes with their land grabs. There's nothing obummer or any other president can really do about this. All the other stuff (like sanctions, visa restrictions and such) is just political theater.

 

[norseamd]

Where is the ethnic cleansing of Wisconsin in your analogy?

exactly

and wisconsin is mostly germans plus some irish and scandanavians

 

[norseamd]

Genie is out of the bottle. Russia is there to stay.

russia is not as stable as you might think

 

[Texashiker]

not accurate analogy.

Sure it is. You just do not want to admit it.

The people in Crimea are not Ukraine, they are Russian.

The scary part is what happens if the Mexican population in California or Texas outnumber other ethnic groups.

President obama is terrified that the illegal immigrants in the border states may demand those states return to Mexico. What happened in Crimea is the will of the people. By opposing the Crimea referendum, obama opposes democracy.

 

[norseamd]

Putin is not insane like Hitler was.

used to seem like this

not so sure anymore

Nobody wants to go to war with Russia.

no one wanted to go to war with germany either. look how long it took the rest of europe to declare war on germany. especially the us to get involved in either war

England and France were quick to declare war on Germany in 1939. Europe is showing a little more restraint this time around.

they were bound by treaty

 

[norseamd]

The people in Crimea are not Ukraine, they are Russian.

a small majority

there are a lot of tatars and ukrainians there also

 

[norseamd]

The scary part is what happens if the Mexican population in California or Texas outnumber other ethnic groups. President obama is terrified that the illegal immigrants in the border states may demand those states return to Mexico

then if that is a problem for you you might have to leave texas. remember that the actions of texas settlers were neither legal nor just

also this is decades away

 

[Texashiker]

used to seem like this

not so sure anymore

I also wonder what Putin is doing. Surely he knows how the rest of the world is going to react.

But then again, Crimea is none of our business.

then if that is a problem for you you might have to leave texas.

I have the ability to become a son of the republic of Texas.

My family was in Texas before it became a state. I have no plans on leaving.

 

[Genx87]

Sure it is. You just do not want to admit it.

The people in Crimea are not Ukraine, they are Russian.

The scary part is what happens if the Mexican population in California or Texas outnumber other ethnic groups.

President obama is terrified that the illegal immigrants in the border states may demand those states return to Mexico. What happened in Crimea is the will of the people. By opposing the Crimea referendum, obama opposes democracy.

These people left Mexico for a reason. You think they are eager to rejoin Mexico?

Your idea reminds me of an Onion article from about a decade ago. I believe the title went something like this. "Southern California secedes from United States and joins Mexico. Immigrants seen heading north out of LA towards US border".

 

[norseamd]

I have the ability to become a son of the republic of Texas. My family was in Texas before it became a state. I have no plans on leaving.

and you are fine with being a part of a country where to population is a mixture of mexican and white and black and they do not view themselves as either american or mexican but texan?

 

[norseamd]

These people left Mexico for a reason. You think they are eager to rejoin Mexico?

Your idea reminds me of an Onion article from about a decade ago. I believe the title went something like this. "Southern California secedes from United States. immigrants seen heading north out of LA".

political and cultural allegiance are not the same thing. just remember that much of the us and not just the south might become mexican so really the whole country might become a culturally mexican country and not feel like they need to join with the mexican homeland

 

[Coalfax]

The OP wants democracy and fair voting. Something akin to the North Korea vote recently in which there wasn't even one vote NOT for the current regime.

Yep, the vote in Crimea was democratic all right.. in the face of Russian military might that is.

I wont argue the fact that OK, a majority of the people may actually SPEAK Russian, but that doesn't mean that they should be part OF Russia.

 

[Texashiker]

and you are fine with being a part of a country where to population is a mixture of mexican and white and black and they do not view themselves as either american or mexican but texan?

I would like to see those people leave this glorious state. If you do not consider yourself a Texan above all else, then you need to leave and go to wherever you consider home.

These people left Mexico for a reason. You think they are eager to rejoin Mexico?

For the same reason Muslims in France and Germany cling to the heritage they fled from.

Why are immigrants in London setting up Sharia zones?

Why do Mexicans here in the states celebrate cinco-de mayo?

Even though Mexicans fled Mexico, they see California and Texas as still part of Mexico. The traitor Santa Anna gave that land away, which he had no right to do.

 

[Genx87]

political and cultural allegiance are not the same thing. just remember that much of the us and not just the south might become mexican so really the whole country might become a culturally mexican country and not feel like they need to join with the mexican homeland

Absolutely. Just like all the Irish, Germans, Italians and English didnt vote to rejoin their homelands neither.

Mexicans value our economy, political representation, and upward mobility compared to Mexico. Culturally parts of the country may look like Mexico. But I highly doubt those people will want to politically become Mexico again.

 

[norseamd]

I would like to see those people leave this glorious state. If you do not consider yourself a Texan above all else, then you need to leave and go to wherever you consider home.

not sure if you entirely understood my question?

i was asking if a racially mixed population that thought of themselves as texans and not americans or mexicans was fine with you?

 

[Genx87]

I would like to see those people leave this glorious state. If you do not consider yourself a Texan above all else, then you need to leave and go to wherever you consider home.




For the same reason Muslims in France and Germany cling to the heritage they fled from.

Why are immigrants in London setting up Sharia zones?

Why do Mexicans here in the states celebrate cinco-de mayo?

Even though Mexicans fled Mexico, they see California and Texas as still part of Mexico. The traitor Santa Anna gave that land away, which he had no right to do.

You ever think Europe's lack of inclusiveness leads to Sharia zones in London? Why dont we have Sharia zones in predominately muslim areas of our country?

Do you have an idea what Cinco-De-Mayo is and where its celebration was started? Hint, it is a celebration originating within the US. We celebrate it here more than people in Mexico.

 

[Texashiker]

i was asking if a racially mixed population that thought of themselves as texans and not americans or mexicans was fine with you?

Of course I am fine with that.

 

[cubby1223]

Do you know about the economic war jews declared on German goods? It was more of a boycott than an actual war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_boycott_of_German_goods

The nazis used the boycott to fuel anti-Jewish sentiments.

Now that the G8 has kicked Russia out, how to you think this is going to affect the typical Russian citizen. Do you think they may feel like the Germans did in the 1930s? Do you think Russian citizens feel the G8 is trying to damage the Russian economy? Kinda like how German citizens felt about the jewish boycott?

As the world turns against Russia national pride with get stronger. Now all we need is a spark. All we need is an Russian ethic group in some nation that is being oppressed. Putin invade to protect his people, Europe declares war on Russia.

This is an almost exact replay of World War II.




Will of the people.

Seriously? Remember when the world agreed to let Hitler keep Czechoslovakia in hopes his aggression would be stopped then and there?

I mean, you're making the Nazi reference, I'm just making sure you're examining all angles of it, not just the one slice that you choose to pick out and make your shining example of how great you are.

 

[cubby1223]

and a new unelected Canadian Gov't decides to become close allies of China - a known opponent / enemy of the US.

One of the first things this new "unelected democracy" does is tell Wisconsinites that they can't have media in English and their local Gov't functions will all be done in French.

If you believe China is an enemy of the U.S.... reading these threads is like, what the f is going on with all you? Did you all fail life?

 

[cubby1223]

I mean, fuck, throughout history lands and territories have changed hands a lot everywhere. It's stupid to go back to one period of time, and declare the rulers of then the rightful rulers today, because you can always go to another time and make a different decree.

What matters most today is that we understand the benefits of stability and rule of law as betterment to the world, it allows businesses to function, it allows citizens to work, it allows trade to help different regions.

What Russia is doing today is absolutely the wrong thing to do, and should be opposed by everyone.

Let's not forget Russia also has a deep history of serious oppression towards its people. It took the U.S. over 100 years since the civil war before starting to really correct the problems towards the African-American population. Does anyone really believe Russia has changed their ways over the past even 30 years?