Obama supports the Constitutional Right of Mosque being built near WTC

[Malak]

The only fools who are offended by the mosque are those that equate all of Islam with the attack on the WTC. That somehow, even American citizens who happen to be Muslim share some responsibility for the attacks. You also have the right to be stupid in this country. Exercise it proudly.

Just like other countries blame all Christians for the acts of our government, even if the actions are not in anyway a part of the ideals of the religion.

 

[skyking]

<rant>The media talks about it like it is at 'ground zero'. IT is a couple of blocks away from the WTC site.
So some of you think it is in bad taste to build it "on" 'ground zero'. It is not on the WTC properties.
It is a couple of blocks away, but the media has whipped up a frenzy about it. So how close is too close? Where does it stop?
When do you let the terrorists destroy that which makes our country and ideals different than the rest of the world?

Oh and further more, I take great exception in the use of 'ground zero'. It was a phrase used to describe the point directly below an atomic blast. As bad as it was it is in no way comparable to the horrors of a nuclear blast.
</rant>

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Hey lets put a West Bro style Church near a Harvey Milk memorial in SF !! Sure that would work out well and garner tons of support from the left.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Here is the truth of the matter. They have a legal right, no question. A constitutional right, no question. But the truth is if they truly loved this country, sympathized with their fellow citizens, and were truly disgusted with the act perpetrated there, they wouldn't build there. They wouldn't do it.

wow, classy and i agree. this is a first!

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

It's only because it's a mosque, and not a church, that there's an uproar, and knowing this pretty indisputable reality, it's a very clearcut case of anti-Muslim bigotry and/or run-of-the-mill ignorance about what Islam is that's causing this rather overblown uproar.

mosque = place of worship for muslims.

if 9/11 attacks weren't carried out by muslims, this would be a non-issue.

 

[First]

mosque = place of worship for muslims.

if 9/11 attacks weren't carried out by muslims, this would be a non-issue.

Except they weren't actual Muslims, and even if they were, it's entirely irrelevant to the rest of peaceful Islam.

 

[jackschmittusa]

It still comes down to a single point about those who oppose the mosque. There is no way that you can be offended unless you feel that all Muslims are somehow "tainted" because of a handful of nutjob terrorists. That even your fellow Americans who are Muslims are now so tainted that it is considered unseemly for them to exercise their Constitutional rights. New boundaries must be set on these Americans (either through legal means or attempts at shaming them) to keep the stench of their religion at arm's length. Where in this land of freedom, even the location of a house of worship is considered disgusting if a twisted mind can conceive of it as an imaginary symbol.

I've read some of the most BS arguments in these threads. The "Saudi Arabia doesn't support freedom of religion, so why should we?" argument is laughable. How about a hypothetical "You kill babies, so we're going to kill them too until you stop." The argument that is is the symbol of a conqueror akin to the Marines raising the flag on Mt. Surabachi is stupid. What claim does AQ have to this mosque? What makes it their symbol? Simply nothing!

You fair weather patriots willing to abandon the great principles of our country at the drop of a hat are by far the greatest danger to the future of this country. AQ can kill a few of us, but those of you who would discard what it really means to be America can destroy the entire country. Many of you are likely to be proponents of "American exceptionalism" but seem to be almost eager to create "American mediocrity" instead. Emotional argument is fine at the dinner table or maybe Sunday School, but only rational thinking will preserve the future of our great nation.

 

[xj0hnx]

It still comes down to a single point about those who oppose the mosque. There is no way that you can be offended unless you feel that all Muslims are somehow "tainted" because of a handful of nutjob terrorists.

Bullshit. Seems to me that Red Dawn, Engineer, and a few others think the idea is offensive, and don't think that all Muslims are terrorist, so that's just a load of loaded fail right there.

 

[Zebo]

It still comes down to a single point about those who oppose the mosque. There is no way that you can be offended unless you feel that all Muslims are somehow "tainted" because of a handful of nutjob terrorists. That even your fellow Americans who are Muslims are now so tainted that it is considered unseemly for them to exercise their Constitutional rights. New boundaries must be set on these Americans (either through legal means or attempts at shaming them) to keep the stench of their religion at arm's length. Where in this land of freedom, even the location of a house of worship is considered disgusting if a twisted mind can conceive of it as an imaginary symbol.

I've read some of the most BS arguments in these threads. The "Saudi Arabia doesn't support freedom of religion, so why should we?" argument is laughable. How about a hypothetical "You kill babies, so we're going to kill them too until you stop." The argument that is is the symbol of a conqueror akin to the Marines raising the flag on Mt. Surabachi is stupid. What claim does AQ have to this mosque? What makes it their symbol? Simply nothing!

You fair weather patriots willing to abandon the great principles of our country at the drop of a hat are by far the greatest danger to the future of this country. AQ can kill a few of us, but those of you who would discard what it really means to be America can destroy the entire country. Many of you are likely to be proponents of "American exceptionalism" but seem to be almost eager to create "American mediocrity" instead. Emotional argument is fine at the dinner table or maybe Sunday School, but only rational thinking will preserve the future of our great nation.

I love how religion gets an exemption and acceptance just because its religion. Religious people are "tainted" - they are living by 2000 year old mores, tenants and atmospherics, get over it. We have evolved, something called enlightenment, natural rights, the individual, democracy, reason, science among other things. To the degree people remove themselves from religion the less tainted they are.

I believe in freedom so I have zero problem with mosque but to say they are not tainted is retarded.

 

[Craig234]

Here is the truth of the matter. They have a legal right, no question. A constitutional right, no question. But the truth is if they truly loved this country, sympathized with their fellow citizens, and were truly disgusted with the act perpetrated there, they wouldn't build there. They wouldn't do it.

Ya, and the Catholic Church wouldn't build near there, either.

Oh, what, you are not holding them to the same standards, why is that?

Because the attackers were purportedly 'Muslim', not Catholic?

Oh, so you don't get the point I've made over and over yet, that the Muslim people are the target and enemies of these attackers - their 'victim' as much or more than you are.

So, you are really just for wrong discrimination. Again.

 

[Infohawk]

Not a good political move to get involved with this. He doesn't really have a say so best to shut up.

Muslims probably have a constitutional right to build a mosque there, but the rest of America has a right to hate them for it too. Tacky and unnecessary choice to build a mosque.

 

[Craig234]

I love how religion gets an exemption and acceptance just because its religion. Religious people are "tainted" - they are living by 2000 year old mores, tenants and atmospherics, get over it. We have evolved, something called enlightenment, natural rights, the individual, democracy, reason, science among other things. To the degree people remove themselves from religion the less tainted they are.

I believe in freedom so I have zero problem with mosque but to say they are not tainted is retarded.

You completely missed his good point, not about 'religion', but about how mosque opponents want to share some of the blame - the taint - for the attack to all Muslims.

 

[Craig234]

Not a good political move to get involved with this. He doesn't really have a say so best to shut up.

It's the President's business to comment on the national issue like this. When the black guy got drug behind the truck, IIRC Bush commented on the 'local' matter.

The nation is aware of the mosque, and many are wrongly opposing it because of wrongly blaming all Muslims - like you are. Good for him to speak out on the issue.

Muslims probably have a constitutional right to build a mosque there, but the rest of America has a right to hate them for it too. Tacky and unnecessary choice to build a mosque.

I've explained repeatedly in this thread why it's not tacky and the view that it is comes from mistakenly blaming our fellow victim of the attacks, Al Queda's target, the Muslims.

It was the Muslim people Al Queda was trying to get invaded (successfully) by the US, to create conflict - conflict you are furthering.

 

[Craig234]

Hey lets put a West Bro style Church near a Harvey Milk memorial in SF !! Sure that would work out well and garner tons of support from the left.

Yes, the inherently offensive, bigoted Phelps is the same type of group as innocent Muslims.

You are the supporter of Al Queda. They wanted US-Muslim conflict, and so do you.

 

[Craig234]

It still comes down to a single point about those who oppose the mosque. There is no way that you can be offended unless you feel that all Muslims are somehow "tainted" because of a handful of nutjob terrorists. That even your fellow Americans who are Muslims are now so tainted that it is considered unseemly for them to exercise their Constitutional rights. New boundaries must be set on these Americans (either through legal means or attempts at shaming them) to keep the stench of their religion at arm's length. Where in this land of freedom, even the location of a house of worship is considered disgusting if a twisted mind can conceive of it as an imaginary symbol.

I've read some of the most BS arguments in these threads. The "Saudi Arabia doesn't support freedom of religion, so why should we?" argument is laughable. How about a hypothetical "You kill babies, so we're going to kill them too until you stop." The argument that is is the symbol of a conqueror akin to the Marines raising the flag on Mt. Surabachi is stupid. What claim does AQ have to this mosque? What makes it their symbol? Simply nothing!

You fair weather patriots willing to abandon the great principles of our country at the drop of a hat are by far the greatest danger to the future of this country. AQ can kill a few of us, but those of you who would discard what it really means to be America can destroy the entire country. Many of you are likely to be proponents of "American exceptionalism" but seem to be almost eager to create "American mediocrity" instead. Emotional argument is fine at the dinner table or maybe Sunday School, but only rational thinking will preserve the future of our great nation.

Great post.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Could be worse, could be Mormon Masters.
Their beliefs are just as whacked if not more.

Not as wacked out as the Democrat Party. :twisted:

 

[umbrella39]

I can`t wait for school to start that way people hacp will have something to occupy the day rather than opening their mouth and inserting foot!!

I bet that kid hasn't seen the light of day in years and is home schooled.

 

[yllus]

A courageous and rather unpoliticianlike thing for him to say. I am impressed.

 

[umbrella39]

and i would've denouncing him for it, like I am obama now.
but you seem to make it an issue of Rep vs Dem.

It's not even close to being a Rep vs Dem issue was my point. How you can denounce ANY president for siding with such a fundamental right is beyond me. Hell, this isn't a very wise idea by any stretch but how the hell do we win by trying to prevent this mosque? Becoming what we hate is not the solution.

 

[xj0hnx]

Great post.

No it wasn't, it was a bunch of BS like yours have been. People don't have to hate Islam, or Muslims to think it's a bad, or offensive idea, as proven by more than a couple posters in this thread.

 

[jackschmittusa]

xj0hnx


Sorry, proof not found anywhere in the thread. At least none that makes any sense to a rational mind.

You cannot even respect these people as Americans first. They are just more Muslims.

And don't come back with any diversionary crap like you don't think they think of themselves as anything but Muslim first. We're discussing your obligation to accept their status as fellow citizens who have committed no act that should cause them to face restrictions.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Obama on healthcare = fail

Obama on illegal immigration = fail

Obama on WTC mosque = fail

Stimulus = fail


Its like he couldn't try harder to fail

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

He went from a 79 percent approval rating to a 44 percent approval rating = fail

And yet he will be president again. Let me rephrase that, the political actions set in motion will continue.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It is in bad taste for the people to build their Mosque there, but this has nothing to do with what Obama said. He carefully worded his statement so that it represented his view of the legal aspect of the issue. Muslims bought the plot so they have every right to build there. Nothing Obama said was wrong in this instance. Obama did not say that he thought it was a good thing for them to do, he only said that he thought it was a legal thing for them to do.

edit: in this sense, the title of the thread is misleading.

Well, i have not changed my view. Building a mosque right there is not a problem for me. The date of the opening however was a problem because it showed a lack of respect towards the people who lost relatives and friends in a meaningless act of mindless stupidity and ignorant hatred. I do must stress that next to the mosque, a western cultural centre must be build. As such can be seen that when cultures are moderate, educated and embrace compassionate logical thinking before acting, there is no difference amoung people.

 

[Craig234]

Just like other countries blame all Christians for the acts of our government, even if the actions are not in anyway a part of the ideals of the religion.

There is some difference - our government is elected, Al Queda is not.

When the Iraq war shot Bush's ratings from 50% to 90%, it was fair to say most American Christians supported the Iraq, war, for example.

To the extent Christians oppose the government's actions - not that common in this large majority Christian nation - you have a point.

But do remember our very Christian nation has the most powerful military in the world, and most have usually backed its use.

Al Queda's relationship to the Muslims is very different from the US government's relationship to US Christians.

 

[xj0hnx]

xj0hnx

Sorry, proof not found anywhere in the thread. At least none that makes any sense to a rational mind.

You cannot even respect these people as Americans first. They are just more Muslims.

Look next time ...

Personally I wish they wouldn't build it there, hell I wish they'd just go away and take all religious followers with them but that pesky Constitution,

I personally don't like and think that it's a slap in the face of NYC/911 victims,

.. I personally think that they should not do it

I do think its a slap in the face of the US and NY to build it right where they are planning.

is it wrong? yes. is it insulting? yes. do i think they should move it? hell yes. is it against the law for them to build it? nope.

later in thread

And rightfully so. I think its a very bad idea for them to build it. they would score so many more points with people in the US and hell the world if they just moved it out of respect.

while i think its disgusting and disrespectful they have the right to build it.

Just because the mosque CAN be built there does not mean it SHOULD.