Obama: Raise Taxes, Penalize Business

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Carbo
Penalize Big Oil

Obama says he would impose oil windfall profits tax

From what I understand a "windfall profits' are profits that you made that where you made no investment in. So how is he going to tax oil companies on the huge profits derived from what those companies invested in?

Answer; he can't!

This statement appears to be nothing more than a meaningless but makes me look real good con mans tactic.

From a couple online dictionaries:

windfall profit - profit that occurs unexpectedly as a consequence of some event not controlled by those who profit from it

and especially apt:

An unexpected profit from a business or other source. The term connotes gaining huge profits without working for them ? for example, when oil companies profit from a temporary scarcity of oil.

They're quite taxable.

 

[Stunt]

He just finished campaigning for the Democrats...now that he is in general election mode; you will see far more moderate policies...even more moderate when he hopefully gets to the White house.
I've been told he has an amazing economic team and this is according to Kudlow of all people! 😱

 

[trenchfoot]

yep, cutting taxes is a great idea. look what those cuts and the umbrella fiscal policies it resides in that bush has been pushing since he took office have done to our economy so far. it's working realllly great......ain't it.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt
He just finished campaigning for the Democrats...now that he is in general election mode; you will see far more moderate policies...even more moderate when he hopefully gets to the White house.
I've been told he has an amazing economic team and this is according to Kudlow of all people! 😱

Coming from the very right leaning, Laffer worshiping Kudlow, that's saying something indeed!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Stunt
He just finished campaigning for the Democrats...now that he is in general election mode; you will see far more moderate policies...even more moderate when he hopefully gets to the White house.

HOPE!!! I guess when it's all you got to hold on to, go all in! 😛

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

So, let's try it again. Based on the numbers above, the average $70K person/family realized a 0.06% benefit (43/70,000 * 100) while the average millionaire realized a 3.9% benefit (39,000/1,000,000 * 100), 65 times greater. It is, in fact, the wealthy who see the overall greatest benefit from the preferential treatment of capital gains income compared to earned income, not only in total dollars, but also as a percentage of income.

Just to clarify, the program on CNBC stated that the average millionaire received $39,000 additional tax cuts for EVERY million owned. I know that the numbers may be skewed by billionaires and mega traders like Buffet, but regardless, the middle class received nothing but spit on the capital gains cuts while the millionaires and billionaires received the gold trophy.

OK, but....why should the group that contributes the least to the federal revenue realize a greater percentage gain than the group who contributes the most? Where's the good math in that?

and it isnt popular to lower taxes on the middle class either as response from the tax rebates...

And why does a group that makes most of it's money from capital gains pay a lower percentage of tax on that money than someone like me on my earnings (from labor)?

And the middle class doesn't pay the "least". We may not pay the most, but certainly not the least. Also, the top 1-2% of people pay a far lower % than most everyone else.

When I say least, Im talking about volume of revenue. MIA doesnt contrbute a significant amount. I get upset about local taxes, not federal. When I made $51k a few years ago, without owning a home (but had a few other write offs), my effective tax rate was 11%. Big fucking deal? I'd like to hear effective tax rates for the wealthy. Unfortunately those I know who are well of are only worth 8 figures (1 person) and 7 figures(3 people) otherwise I would ask. I know for a fact they pay 30-35% effective.

The only fair way to tax is a straight percentage. But this country is too full of wealth-envy people so it will never happen.

Is there any point at which wealth concentration would make you actually consider the effect of policies, andnot blind ideology, for your opinion?

If there was one guy who owned 99% of all the wealth in the nation, and millions dying in the streets of medical problems, would you ignore the situation and keep parroting this?

Or can you at some point recognize the situation a little besides your blind ideology, and recognize how distribution of wealth creates opportunity and prosperity, and that there needs to be a balance - not too little concentration so that incentives are not there for productivity, yet not too much so that the wealthy are wealthy for how much power they have to control the system and not because of 'incentive ofr productivity'?

I don't think you can, sadly. Zero of your posts shows me anything but blind ideology on these issues. You will say things on one side of the issue, but not the other.

There's more to the issue of wealth in the nation than the tax rate; if wealth is flowing fast to the very top who are owning 25%, 50%, 75% of all of it, you can see an issue growing.

Your homework assignment, if you have any interest in something beyond blind ideology, is to look into the trends since 1980 of how much the top 0.1% own of America's wealth.

Youre an idiot on this one Craig. You have no idea what it would be like if 99% of the wealth was controlled by a few. No clue. You have no idea what homelessness is. You have no idea what children running in the street with no parents to be found is like. You have no idea what its like in a country so corrupt you could buy your way out of a murder charge for $500. I do. Ive been to several like this.

You have no. fucking. clue. Go travel a little bit and get back to us on how corrupt our government is and how poor our middle class is partner. You havent a clue.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Carbo
Penalize Big Oil

Obama says he would impose oil windfall profits tax

From what I understand a "windfall profits' are profits that you made that where you made no investment in. So how is he going to tax oil companies on the huge profits derived from what those companies invested in?

Answer; he can't!

This statement appears to be nothing more than a meaningless but makes me look real good con mans tactic.

From a couple online dictionaries:

windfall profit - profit that occurs unexpectedly as a consequence of some event not controlled by those who profit from it

and especially apt:

An unexpected profit from a business or other source. The term connotes gaining huge profits without working for them ? for example, when oil companies profit from a temporary scarcity of oil.

They're quite taxable.

Let me ask you something. Lets take Chevron. They have regional offices all over the globe. Lets say Obama gets elected and somehow hypnotizes the senate into making this law (now were really stretching lol). Lets say Chevron says enough is enough, we're liquidating, delisting, and moving out of the country.

Do you have any idea what kind of economic mess that would create? At all?

 

[BlancoNino]

I think we can cut enough spending to get back to where we need to be without raising any taxes. The war, homeland security, department of education, healthcare, etc... there's just too much the federal government is trying to do, but nobody wants to vote for a guy that doesn't use his power to "do something" for certain groups of people (I'm talking about spending, passing laws, etc).

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

McCain: Lie to the US population to start more wars, and fund those wars by lowering taxes.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Socio

Originally posted by: Carbo
Penalize Big Oil

Obama says he would impose oil windfall profits tax

From what I understand a "windfall profits' are profits that you made that where you made no investment in. So how is he going to tax oil companies on the huge profits derived from what those companies invested in?

Answer; he can't!

This statement appears to be nothing more than a meaningless but makes me look real good con mans tactic.

From a couple online dictionaries:

windfall profit - profit that occurs unexpectedly as a consequence of some event not controlled by those who profit from it

and especially apt:

An unexpected profit from a business or other source. The term connotes gaining huge profits without working for them ? for example, when oil companies profit from a temporary scarcity of oil.

They're quite taxable.

That is a pretty big gray area as they do control their large profits by setting prices for their refined fuel and they do work for it by the simple fact they refine the oil for fuel.

So I think it is more likely that the windfall tax thing is really a lot of hot air and nothing will actually come of it except make Obama look good for saying it.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
McCain: Lie to the US population to start more wars, and fund those wars by lowering taxes.

When faced with imminent collapse because OPEC continues to raise prices, thus holding the world hostage and creating economic chaos, countries will go to war (not just the US) and take the oil from them. It is called survival of the fittest, it is no different than a lion that is hungry and sees a weaker lion whose hunting territory has better game. The hungry lion will go there kill the weaker lion and take that territory well before it allows itself to starve to death.

Just remember if and when that happens you cannot blame any country for doing it just the OPEC countries for forcing it upon themselves through sheer greed and desire to make the west suffer. Make no mistake those are the two motivation factors for cranking up the price, they are not your friend and in the end if they get attacked and their oil riches taken away they will have deserved it.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Investment income needs to be taxed higher.
Earned income needs to be taxed lower.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Investment income needs to be taxed higher.
Earned income needs to be taxed lower.

Who fucking cares where it comes from, it's this kind of pointless hair splitting that creates the hopelessly complex system of taxation we have today. Income is income, why we have all of these tiers and seemingly arbitrary classifications of what gets taxed and what doesn't? If we just put a logical flat or consumption based tax on the books we would do away with a hugely wasteful chunk of the federal government (IRS) and put everyone on the same playing field for taxation. The rich would pay more naturally, the poor less - punitive taxation to "punish the rich" is the work of jealous or useless douchebags who haven't the skill or luck to succeed on their own and feel the need to drag their betters down to their own level of mediocrity.

 

[piasabird]

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

So, let's try it again. Based on the numbers above, the average $70K person/family realized a 0.06% benefit (43/70,000 * 100) while the average millionaire realized a 3.9% benefit (39,000/1,000,000 * 100), 65 times greater. It is, in fact, the wealthy who see the overall greatest benefit from the preferential treatment of capital gains income compared to earned income, not only in total dollars, but also as a percentage of income.

Just to clarify, the program on CNBC stated that the average millionaire received $39,000 additional tax cuts for EVERY million owned. I know that the numbers may be skewed by billionaires and mega traders like Buffet, but regardless, the middle class received nothing but spit on the capital gains cuts while the millionaires and billionaires received the gold trophy.

OK, but....why should the group that contributes the least to the federal revenue realize a greater percentage gain than the group who contributes the most? Where's the good math in that?

and it isnt popular to lower taxes on the middle class either as response from the tax rebates...

And why does a group that makes most of it's money from capital gains pay a lower percentage of tax on that money than someone like me on my earnings (from labor)?

And the middle class doesn't pay the "least". We may not pay the most, but certainly not the least. Also, the top 1-2% of people pay a far lower % than most everyone else.

When I say least, Im talking about volume of revenue. MIA doesnt contrbute a significant amount. I get upset about local taxes, not federal. When I made $51k a few years ago, without owning a home (but had a few other write offs), my effective tax rate was 11%. Big fucking deal? I'd like to hear effective tax rates for the wealthy. Unfortunately those I know who are well of are only worth 8 figures (1 person) and 7 figures(3 people) otherwise I would ask. I know for a fact they pay 30-35% effective.

The only fair way to tax is a straight percentage. But this country is too full of wealth-envy people so it will never happen.

Is there any point at which wealth concentration would make you actually consider the effect of policies, andnot blind ideology, for your opinion?

If there was one guy who owned 99% of all the wealth in the nation, and millions dying in the streets of medical problems, would you ignore the situation and keep parroting this?

Or can you at some point recognize the situation a little besides your blind ideology, and recognize how distribution of wealth creates opportunity and prosperity, and that there needs to be a balance - not too little concentration so that incentives are not there for productivity, yet not too much so that the wealthy are wealthy for how much power they have to control the system and not because of 'incentive ofr productivity'?

I don't think you can, sadly. Zero of your posts shows me anything but blind ideology on these issues. You will say things on one side of the issue, but not the other.

There's more to the issue of wealth in the nation than the tax rate; if wealth is flowing fast to the very top who are owning 25%, 50%, 75% of all of it, you can see an issue growing.

Your homework assignment, if you have any interest in something beyond blind ideology, is to look into the trends since 1980 of how much the top 0.1% own of America's wealth.

Youre an idiot on this one Craig. You have no idea what it would be like if 99% of the wealth was controlled by a few. No clue. You have no idea what homelessness is. You have no idea what children running in the street with no parents to be found is like. You have no idea what its like in a country so corrupt you could buy your way out of a murder charge for $500. I do. Ive been to several like this.

You have no. fucking. clue. Go travel a little bit and get back to us on how corrupt our government is and how poor our middle class is partner. You havent a clue.

I heard ad hom attacks really convince the other person to consider your viewpoint. kek.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

Very true, what the short sighted "tax the evil corporation" dorks seem to forget is that the ultimate payer of corporate taxes are the consumers and end users of their goods. Higher taxes on business simply get passed on via higher prices to consumers, period. Windfall taxes on oil companies will simply mean higher prices at the pump, effectively a regressive tax on the poor and middle class who are less able to afford it than the wealthy. Higher taxation of high end luxury goods (yachts, for example) simply leads to fewer being sold which has a negative impact on the working class folks who build boats, bus tables at dockside restaurants, etc.

The so called champions of the working and middle class continue doing more harm than good with their short sighted attacks on business. What we need is a smaller, less expensive federal government (cut spending) and lower taxes for businesses and individuals. You do not create prosperity by removing people's incentive to succeed through punishing taxation...

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: piasabird
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

Very true, what the short sighted "tax the evil corporation" dorks seem to forget is that the ultimate payer of corporate taxes are the consumers and end users of their goods. Higher taxes on business simply get passed on via higher prices to consumers, period. Windfall taxes on oil companies will simply mean higher prices at the pump, effectively a regressive tax on the poor and middle class who are less able to afford it than the wealthy. Higher taxation of high end luxury goods (yachts, for example) simply leads to fewer being sold which has a negative impact on the working class folks who build boats, bus tables at dockside restaurants, etc.

The so called champions of the working and middle class continue doing more harm than good with their short sighted attacks on business. What we need is a smaller, less expensive federal government (cut spending) and lower taxes for businesses and individuals. You do not create prosperity by removing people's incentive to succeed through punishing taxation...

I agree with this (bolded), and what people don't understand is that the oil companies are not hurt at all by this, for it's a direct transfer of wealth from the people to the government via the tax. For example, say the profit tax is 10% and the oil company makes $100. The government gets $10. In order to stay at a profit level of $100, the oil company will now raise prices at the pump to get to the $112 profit threshold. 10% of that is $11.20, $112 minus $11.20 = $100.80 pure profit. The higher price difference is therefore transferred directly from the people to the government. The oil company is still going to make its $100 profit! 😉

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: piasabird
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

Very true, what the short sighted "tax the evil corporation" dorks seem to forget is that the ultimate payer of corporate taxes are the consumers and end users of their goods. Higher taxes on business simply get passed on via higher prices to consumers, period. Windfall taxes on oil companies will simply mean higher prices at the pump, effectively a regressive tax on the poor and middle class who are less able to afford it than the wealthy. Higher taxation of high end luxury goods (yachts, for example) simply leads to fewer being sold which has a negative impact on the working class folks who build boats, bus tables at dockside restaurants, etc.

The so called champions of the working and middle class continue doing more harm than good with their short sighted attacks on business. What we need is a smaller, less expensive federal government (cut spending) and lower taxes for businesses and individuals. You do not create prosperity by removing people's incentive to succeed through punishing taxation...

Well said. Im not sue why the "tax the evil corporations" dorks as you call them seem to think corps will continue to do business as usual, and if incorporated tell their investors tough shit.

Beware unintended consequences.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Investment income needs to be taxed higher.
Earned income needs to be taxed lower.

Who fucking cares where it comes from, it's this kind of pointless hair splitting that creates the hopelessly complex system of taxation we have today. Income is income, why we have all of these tiers and seemingly arbitrary classifications of what gets taxed and what doesn't? If we just put a logical flat or consumption based tax on the books we would do away with a hugely wasteful chunk of the federal government (IRS) and put everyone on the same playing field for taxation. The rich would pay more naturally, the poor less - punitive taxation to "punish the rich" is the work of jealous or useless douchebags who haven't the skill or luck to succeed on their own and feel the need to drag their betters down to their own level of mediocrity.

I agree, I want see both the IRS abolished as well as state sales taxes removed and replaced with a Federal sales tax this way no matter what, illegal, legal or citizen you will pay taxes but only on what you can afford to spend. Not to mention the removal of the IRS would save the tax payers billions in costs associated to run it.

 

[idiotekniQues]

trickle down economics is a failure. it is trickle out economics.

the rich get their tax cuts and get themselves nice toys, or outsource our jobs.

OBAMA '08!

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Youre an idiot on this one Craig. You have no idea what it would be like if 99% of the wealth was controlled by a few. No clue. You have no idea what homelessness is. You have no idea what children running in the street with no parents to be found is like. You have no idea what its like in a country so corrupt you could buy your way out of a murder charge for $500. I do. Ive been to several like this.

You have no. fucking. clue. Go travel a little bit and get back to us on how corrupt our government is and how poor our middle class is partner. You havent a clue.

You see, this is where your experiences are not unique and therefore prove how wrong you are on the subject.

I have lived in a country just like that also. A country so poor that electricity was intentionally turned off every day of the week to conserve it on a national level b/c of the financial constraints on the government. I knew a person that did just what you said...he ran a red light and killed a pedestrian. A few hundred dollars later, he was out of jail and headed back to the U.S. on an early flight. A country where those that were lucky enough to have a little all had armed guards stationed outside of gates surrounding their homes.

What you are doing is the same thing that those that enacted communism and socialism in other countries did. You are taking something that is very positive and fair in theory and trying to put it in place when reality makes it something that is impractical.

A flat tax is not the answer even though it sounds "fair" in theory. When you enact such a thing, you would still have to have it tiered and make it so that there are no deductions. If you don't the lower brackets have a massively disproportionate burden than the upper brackets do.

Proof. What is more taxing (pun intended) on a citizen:

A: Flat tax of 15% taking $7,500 of your $50,000 salary leaving you $35,000 to live on

or

B: Flat tax of 15% taking $150,000 of your $1,000,000 salary leaving you $850,000 to live on

How is this "fair" in any way, shape or form? Taxes are tiered for a reason, those that have the most are able to contribute more without having to sacrifice quality of life and that is what is truly a "Fair" tax system.

What should be done is a complete abolishment of deductions. Taxes could be lowered across the board (say 5% on first $50k, 7% on next $50k, 10% from $100,001 -300,000, 12.5% $300,001 - 1M, 15% on $1,000,001-10M, 17.5% on everything else) lessening everyone's effective tax rate, eliminating the need for the IRS in it's current form (would still need a skeleton crew for general purposes) and a resurgence of funds for the .gov because people wouldn't have any real reason to hide revenue anymore. This system would be applied to ALL monies (investment, earned, inherited, etc).

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: piasabird
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

Very true, what the short sighted "tax the evil corporation" dorks seem to forget is that the ultimate payer of corporate taxes are the consumers and end users of their goods. Higher taxes on business simply get passed on via higher prices to consumers, period. Windfall taxes on oil companies will simply mean higher prices at the pump, effectively a regressive tax on the poor and middle class who are less able to afford it than the wealthy. Higher taxation of high end luxury goods (yachts, for example) simply leads to fewer being sold which has a negative impact on the working class folks who build boats, bus tables at dockside restaurants, etc.

The so called champions of the working and middle class continue doing more harm than good with their short sighted attacks on business. What we need is a smaller, less expensive federal government (cut spending) and lower taxes for businesses and individuals. You do not create prosperity by removing people's incentive to succeed through punishing taxation...

Well said. Im not sue why the "tax the evil corporations" dorks as you call them seem to think corps will continue to do business as usual, and if incorporated tell their investors tough shit.

Beware unintended consequences.

Would any of you corporatist fanbois care to explain why, if the US corporations have the highest tax burden in the world, your predictions that the higher taxes would have led to the US corporations being less productive, less profitable, than other nations' corporations with lower tax burdens, that all the corporations would flee the US, have yet to occur, with the opposite in fact happening on the former?

Of course, you fail to say anything about the 'unintended consequences' of giving those corporations carte blanche, caving in to any demands.

What the embedded poster fails to note in his call for smaller government is the extent to which the corporatists have made government into a feeding trough.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

Tax Rates:

US Corporate tax rate: 15-39% federal income, 0-12% state income
Saudi Arabia: 20-85%, 11% social security
Barbados: 40%
Guyana: 35%/45%
India: 30%/40%

A lot of countries are in the 30-35% region. Unless the majority of US companies has to pay more than 40% total Barbados still beats the US.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: piasabird
The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

The Ultra Rich can afford to wait out the tax or buy big ticket items overseas.

What we need is a windfall profit tax on people who write books. If they make 10 million off of a book that is too much money for one person. Obama made lots of money writing books, so did Hilary Clinton and other people on the Left and Right and In-Between. Tax them at an even higher rate. Why is it only the ultra rich people propose these stupid taxes?

You know the people that will be hurt the worst are people who live in an area where the cost of living is high and they have to make a lot of money to pay for their House. Rich people pay poor people. This kind of stupid action will just hurt the bottom line and more businesses will move overseas.

The USA has the highest corporate tax rate in the World!

Clinton tried a windfall profit tax and had to cancel it. Higher taxes just makes slaves of hard working people to feed an ever-growing over-bloated Federal Government. The higher the taxes the worse off the poor are.

No, it doesn't. The US tax rate does not have the highest in the world (edit: actually, I looked this up, and it appears that Iowa with its state tax does in fact have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, oh boy). While poor struggling Japan has the highest corporate rate for any single nation.

Why, are you a hypocrite?

Wrong. Take an econ class someday. It could just as easily be argued that the rich couldn't be rich without the poor's labor. This is America. We're not slaves to corporate paychecks.

No, it doesn't.

Wrong. Take a fsckin econ class someday. Low taxes and deficit spending, like with the past 7 years, hurts the poor through inflation. Or how'd like that price at the pump? The ideal situation would be low taxes and low spending, but you're not advocating that.

And BTW, ignorance isn't strength.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Youre an idiot on this one Craig. You have no idea what it would be like if 99% of the wealth was controlled by a few. No clue. You have no idea what homelessness is. You have no idea what children running in the street with no parents to be found is like. You have no idea what its like in a country so corrupt you could buy your way out of a murder charge for $500. I do. Ive been to several like this.

You have no. fucking. clue. Go travel a little bit and get back to us on how corrupt our government is and how poor our middle class is partner. You havent a clue.

You see, this is where your experiences are not unique and therefore prove how wrong you are on the subject.

I have lived in a country just like that also. A country so poor that electricity was intentionally turned off every day of the week to conserve it on a national level b/c of the financial constraints on the government. I knew a person that did just what you said...he ran a red light and killed a pedestrian. A few hundred dollars later, he was out of jail and headed back to the U.S. on an early flight. A country where those that were lucky enough to have a little all had armed guards stationed outside of gates surrounding their homes.

What you are doing is the same thing that those that enacted communism and socialism in other countries did. You are taking something that is very positive and fair in theory and trying to put it in place when reality makes it something that is impractical.

A flat tax is not the answer even though it sounds "fair" in theory. When you enact such a thing, you would still have to have it tiered and make it so that there are no deductions. If you don't the lower brackets have a massively disproportionate burden than the upper brackets do.

Proof. What is more taxing (pun intended) on a citizen:

A: Flat tax of 15% taking $7,500 of your $50,000 salary leaving you $35,000 to live on

or

B: Flat tax of 15% taking $150,000 of your $1,000,000 salary leaving you $850,000 to live on

How is this "fair" in any way, shape or form? Taxes are tiered for a reason, those that have the most are able to contribute more without having to sacrifice quality of life and that is what is truly a "Fair" tax system.

What should be done is a complete abolishment of deductions. Taxes could be lowered across the board (say 5% on first $50k, 7% on next $50k, 10% from $100,001 -300,000, 12.5% $300,001 - 1M, 15% on $1,000,001-10M, 17.5% on everything else) lessening everyone's effective tax rate, eliminating the need for the IRS in it's current form (would still need a skeleton crew for general purposes) and a resurgence of funds for the .gov because people wouldn't have any real reason to hide revenue anymore. This system would be applied to ALL monies (investment, earned, inherited, etc).

In part, I agree. I think a flat tax *IF* deductions were removed IS fair. A percentage is a percentage. I really dont understand the thinking that if you have more its fair to pay more. To each his own I guess. But by removing deductions, it would, as you have pointed out, remove loopholes for people being able to squirrel away money tax free. This goes for middle class deductions as well: kids, mortgage, IRA, moving expenses, medical, etc. I also agree a "use tax" of sorts is appropriate, although I dont think a federal one is the way to go. Then we would have to rely on the feds to distribute monies back to the states for THEIR government expenses, and we all know how well the feds manage money 😉

My comments of third world countries were, in part, sarcastic. It was simply a response to those who seem to think we have it sooo bad in America. Our middle class is soooo poor. Blah blah blah. We dont, and they arent. In comparison. I understand many think comparisons are trivial, but you have to have a benchmark in order to decide what is poor. Or rich. Based on what? Thats all.