Obama: Raise Taxes, Penalize Business

Carbo

Diamond Member
Aug 6, 2000
5,244
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So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
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Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?

Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,914
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?

Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.

And negate the lessened load by higher prices and lower pay! YAY OBAMA!

and btw, capital gains tax now will hit a huge chunk of the middle class.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?
Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.
Exactly. Believe it or not, some people think that's a bad thing. Even stranger, these people will personally benefit from these changes, or at worse, be only modestly affected, while people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who would be affected the most have publicly declared they believe they should pay more since they have benefited so much. Go figure.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
It would be helpful if you'd link us up to the specifics of his proposals.

I'd like to know how high he suggests raising the cap gains rate, and when (at what income level) the higher rates kick-in.

And, as mentioned above, more info on the windfall profits tax.

TIA

Fern

 

mxyzptlk

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2008
1,893
0
0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?

Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on that.. I mean, I'm certainly part of the 99%.. it's definitely good for me. But I'm cursed with the gift of empathy.. I can understand why the 1%'ers wouldn't be pleased with that turn of events..

I feel the same way about bans on cigarette smoking. I don't smoke. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke. Every time some local so-cal city bans smoking in public, I should be happy because it means that I wont have to smell it anymore.. but I'm not. I feel bad because it's the government treating people (who could be me under slightly different circumstances) unfairly.

It would be enough for corporations to only have to pay the same taxes as you or I. They shouldn't be able to get out of paying taxes via offshore accounts and other such loopholes but I don't agree with this windfall tax business either. You shouldn't be penalized for having good business.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
And negate the lessened load by higher prices and lower pay! YAY OBAMA!
Nonsense.


and btw, capital gains tax now will hit a huge chunk of the middle class.
Or, to be more accurate, taxing capital gains equitably with earned income will have a minuscule impact on a huge chunk of the middle class (wage earners) and a significant impact on the very wealthy.
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Carbo
Obama: Raise Taxes, Penalize Business

This is the exact kind of policy that put Michigan into the worst economy in all 50 states.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?
Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.
Exactly. Believe it or not, some people think that's a bad thing. Even stranger, these people will personally benefit from these changes, or at worse, be only modestly affected, while people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who would be affected the most have publicly declared they believe they should pay more since they have benefited so much. Go figure.

Will Obama not raise income taxes by raising capital gains? Otherwise I dont see how this will benefit me.

btw I never understood the filthy rich complainers about capital gains and income taxes. Nothing is stopping them from writing a check to the govt for more than they legally owe but feel they morally should pay. Yet you never see them doing this. Nothing is stopping either from writing a ridiculous check above and beyond what they owe if they feel that way.

What will happen of course is it filters down so somebody like me who is middle of road pays the same rate as Bill Gates on my 50K when he cashes in his 1 billion. Perhaps a progressive capital gains tax should be implemented?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Well let's see. Increase taxes to pay off debts *or* continue bleeding money out like a sieve. The first choice removes some of the debt burdens on our children and the latter increases it. I am not a fan of higher taxes, but I do understand that spending and debt control is sorely needed. We will have to do our part to bring this country back to its former glory, and to do that we must clean up other people's poor spending habits (governmental) including our own. You and many others may scream about how high taxes are during the next four years, but you same few will forget it was the SPENDING before hand that caused the tax hike. I personally think Obama is the least of the three evils, more of the status quo. If you want big government, spending and taxes then you vote for government shills like this one. The simple fact is, if the size of government was decreased even 10% every few years, we wouldn't have to raise taxes to compensate for the radical spending that has occurred in the last 8 years. IMO You guys don't have the right to bitch when you vote for presidential candidates that will increase size of government knowing that money has to come from somewhere to pay for it. Do you think its free? Are government services free?!?! If you don't pay your children will. Then you get the "OMG THEY RAISED TAXES OH WHAT SHALL WE DO!!" crap. You asked for it, deal with it. /thread
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Why oh why can we not just cut government spending??????

SLASH AND BURN!!!

Why not do both? That's how we ended up with a surplus in the late 90s.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Carbo
Obama: Raise Taxes, Penalize Business

This is the exact kind of policy that put Michigan into the worst economy in all 50 states.

No, being a one-trick pony put Michigan into the worst economy in all 50 states. Nice strawman though.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?
Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.
Exactly. Believe it or not, some people think that's a bad thing. Even stranger, these people will personally benefit from these changes, or at worse, be only modestly affected, while people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who would be affected the most have publicly declared they believe they should pay more since they have benefited so much. Go figure.

Will Obama not raise income taxes by raising capital gains? Otherwise I dont see how this will benefit me.

btw I never understood the filthy rich complainers about capital gains and income taxes. Nothing is stopping them from writing a check to the govt for more than they legally owe but feel they morally should pay. Yet you never see them doing this. Nothing is stopping either from writing a ridiculous check above and beyond what they owe if they feel that way.

What will happen of course is it filters down so somebody like me who is middle of road pays the same rate as Bill Gates on my 50K when he cashes in his 1 billion. Perhaps a progressive capital gains tax should be implemented?
I'd be surprised if either of them owe much on taxes considering the monumental amount they donate every year.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: Carbo
Penalize Big Oil

He better watch it. He could end up with more holes than he has currently if he goes messing around with oil companies. But I will say this, he just gained a few points from me if he follows through.

Originally posted by: Genx87

Wow for supposedly being so smart. That is one dumbass idea.
The only people who will actually feel that are American drivers when the price is passed along at the pump.

This is also true of which I didn't think of at first. But wouldn't increasing prices to compensate also increase the taxes they would have to pay? Almost seems like it would be a vicious circle.

"I'll make oil companies like Exxon pay a tax on their windfall profits, and we'll use the money to help families pay for their skyrocketing energy costs and other bills," the Illinois senator said.

Sounds like socialist values to me. Why not just cut government back Obama? Is it really that hard? :disgust:
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: Carbo
Penalize Big Oil

He better watch it. He could end up with more holes than he has currently if he goes messing around with oil companies. But I will say this, he just gained a few points from me if he follows through.

Originally posted by: Genx87

Wow for supposedly being so smart. That is one dumbass idea.
The only people who will actually feel that are American drivers when the price is passed along at the pump.

This is also true of which I didn't think of at first. But wouldn't increasing prices to compensate also increase the taxes they would have to pay? Almost seems like it would be a vicious circle.

Possibly. But I am willing to bet nearly 100% of the tax will be passed along to the pump.

What concerns me a bit is his idea about using that money to help American families purchase more oil. Which could be an even more vicious cycle. Like I said in another oil thread. If we wanted the govt could lower the cost of gasoline by 100% and have us pay for it on the backend via income taxation. The result however would be astronomical consumption which would raise the price through the roof. If he going to tax them then give us prebates which will mean we are not only paying at the pump but also increasing our use due to a percieved lowering of price?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
Makes perfect sense. Nice to have somme Intelligence behind Policy, no?

Going after big oil with a windfall profit tax is purely political and emotional. It is pandering of the worst degree because it will actually hurt the people he is pandering to.

The only thing I can give him in the intelligence dept about this is he realizes people are so stupid about this issue he can lead them over the cliff while they push the cart with glee.

I really dont see this any different than the stupid ass idea to suspend fed gas taxes. Just in reverse.
 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
76
Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: Carbo
So far, this empty suit has been specific on two things: he is going to increase the Capital Gains tax, and now he wants to impose a windfall profits tax. Do you see a pattern here?

Yes I do. He is going to make those that have reaped the biggest benefits over the Bush admin's reign to pay back some of it to lessen the load for the other 99% of us.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand on that.. I mean, I'm certainly part of the 99%.. it's definitely good for me. But I'm cursed with the gift of empathy.. I can understand why the 1%'ers wouldn't be pleased with that turn of events..

I feel the same way about bans on cigarette smoking. I don't smoke. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke. Every time some local so-cal city bans smoking in public, I should be happy because it means that I wont have to smell it anymore.. but I'm not. I feel bad because it's the government treating people (who could be me under slightly different circumstances) unfairly.

It would be enough for corporations to only have to pay the same taxes as you or I. They shouldn't be able to get out of paying taxes via offshore accounts and other such loopholes but I don't agree with this windfall tax business either. You shouldn't be penalized for having good business.

That's funny. Cuz I can guarantee you that the other 1% could give a damn about you or us lol. That's for sure.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,414
8,356
126
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Or, to be more accurate, taxing capital gains equitably with earned income will have a minuscule impact on a huge chunk of the middle class (wage earners) and a significant impact on the very wealthy.

because certainly the middle class doesn't have 401(k)s!
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,516
2,716
136
Income tax does not equal capital gains tax. Income tax is a tax on income. Capital gains tax is a tax on realized wealth.

Increasing CGT is stupid. That discourages saving, investing, and wealth building. That is the LAST thing we should be discouraging. That is made even more relevant since our benevolent government, no matter which party was "in control", has never proven to be able to allocate increased tax revenue to paying down debt. Instead, it has an almost-perfect history of allocating the new revenue to more unnecessary programs and expenditures. Increasing the CGT has all of the drawbacks of reduced savings AND all of the drawbacks of increased spending, with none of the benefits of increased revenue.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,929
142
106
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Why oh why can we not just cut government spending??????

SLASH AND BURN!!!
/agree, and cut unnecessary agencies, like DHS (that was created because "we were scared!"). I hear a pig oinking in a barrel somewhere, and it gets larger and louder every 4 years. :disgust: