Obama Picks Arne Duncan for Education Post

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Picking people you know and trust is fine if they are qualified. In your book if the president personally knows someone who is highly qualified for the job he shouldn't appoint them simply because he knows them? Nice logic.

Harriet Miers was not qualified. Alberto Gonzales was not. That's why those picks are cronyism. Please point out someone Obama appointed that is not qualified. His picks are receiving wide bi-partisan support. Even Cheney thinks Obama picked a good team. If Obama picks someone with no experience for the post, you'll hear plenty about it here.

His national security team, which probably doesn't include the Secretary of Education....

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You got any support for those facts you casually threw out about the Chicago school district and the implied inadequacy of Arne Duncan as a result? Even if Chicago schools look bad now...how much has Duncan improved them? Come on, attack boy, let's at least PRETEND you want to have a reasonable discussion about this.

Personally I think a superintendent of schools in a big city is a good choice for the job of education secretary. If we picked someone from a district with the highest performance, we'd probably end up with the superintendent from a rich suburb who doesn't have to do beans to get good results, since he has more funding and a better situation to begin with. Like it or not, schools across the country have some serious problems...I'd like an education secretary with some experience dealing with those kinds of issues.

http://news.medill.northwester...go/news.aspx?id=107795

Rates have gone up by a tad, but guess what, they still suck compared to the state average. And Chicago is still behind the average city.

Chicago Public Schools has a 55 percent graduation rate. That means, out of all students who start in Chicago schools in 9th grade, roughly half of them will finish within five years.

While this number has increased in recent years -- it was about 47 percent in 2000 -- it is still well below the national average.

During the 2003-2004 school year, the national average was about 70 percent, according to Editorial Projects in Education Research Center. The average for urban districts is about 60 percent.

So you're saying that the graduation rates went up slightly under his stewardship, during a period in which the travesty that is NCLB effectively sought to undermine the entire educational system, particularly in dense urban areas? Sounds like he's been fighting the good fight to me.

What was it the democrats have been saying about new leadership at failed companies?

Don't worry - the failed leadership is on its way out; ducking questions and flying shoes in the process. Seeing Duncan's tenure as the real failure in leadership is a leap only the most unrepentant of hacks will make. IOW, sounds about right winnar!

What travesty? The state of Illinois saw an increase in graduation rates despite the Chicago district bringing it down.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Let us face one fact, Arne Duncan is definitely well qualified for the education position. Not only in the area of education, but in 15 years in the trenches of education policy. The fact that Duncan and Duncan were in Chicago allowed them to mutually discuss and debate educational policy, evidently those discussions impressed Obama, and as a result, Duncan is going to be Obama's choice for the education post.

Now some comment to Duncan critics.

1. Regardless if you voted for Obama or not, Obama will be our next President, and as such, is the sole arbiter of whom his cabinet picks will be. Subject to the advice and approval of the Senate, unless rejected by the Senate, those Obama picks are in.

2. In all well and fine to be unhappy, but a waste of thread space to bitch about a given Obama appointee, unless you can give a single GOOD reason why a democratic or republican senator should reject a given Obama appointee.

3. And pardon me Winnar111, if I point out, in nearly three thread pages, that you have failed to give A SINGLE GOOD REASON for any senator to reject Duncan, other than the fact you are unhappy with the pick. The world does not revolve around you or your unhappiness, but we can see you have gathered a circle of similar bitching GOP soreheads, proving misery loves company, so go forth and be unhappy together.

But please do not bother the rest of us without a good reason Winnar111. Your reasoning is pathetic in MHO.

That's rich dude.

After listening to you guys bitch whine and cry about everything Bush has done for the last 8 years all of a sudden it becomes 'he is President and can do whatever he wants' ??? The irony.

The lefties were crying about John Ashcroft from day 1.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Picking people you know and trust is fine if they are qualified. In your book if the president personally knows someone who is highly qualified for the job he shouldn't appoint them simply because he knows them? Nice logic.

Harriet Miers was not qualified. Alberto Gonzales was not. That's why those picks are cronyism. Please point out someone Obama appointed that is not qualified. His picks are receiving wide bi-partisan support. Even Cheney thinks Obama picked a good team. If Obama picks someone with no experience for the post, you'll hear plenty about it here.

His national security team, which probably doesn't include the Secretary of Education....

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism. See my post above.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Picking people you know and trust is fine if they are qualified. In your book if the president personally knows someone who is highly qualified for the job he shouldn't appoint them simply because he knows them? Nice logic.

Harriet Miers was not qualified. Alberto Gonzales was not. That's why those picks are cronyism. Please point out someone Obama appointed that is not qualified. His picks are receiving wide bi-partisan support. Even Cheney thinks Obama picked a good team. If Obama picks someone with no experience for the post, you'll hear plenty about it here.

His national security team, which probably doesn't include the Secretary of Education....

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism. See my post above.

This guy's experience is running a shitty school district and keeping it in that status.

Oh, btw, Alberto Gonzalez was a state Supreme Court judge.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: winnar111
The lefties were crying about John Ashcroft from day 1.

And they were right.

 

[First]

No point in responding to fringe wingnuts, they know they're trolls and poorly educated, especially since they've been wrong about everything from the election to the war.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Picking people you know and trust is fine if they are qualified. In your book if the president personally knows someone who is highly qualified for the job he shouldn't appoint them simply because he knows them? Nice logic.

Harriet Miers was not qualified. Alberto Gonzales was not. That's why those picks are cronyism. Please point out someone Obama appointed that is not qualified. His picks are receiving wide bi-partisan support. Even Cheney thinks Obama picked a good team. If Obama picks someone with no experience for the post, you'll hear plenty about it here.

His national security team, which probably doesn't include the Secretary of Education....

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism. See my post above.

404 Change Not Found

PS - I voted for the man, but his tune has changed since he won the election.

 

[BurnItDwn]

CPS have very little funding per student compared to most of the "nicer" suburbs ... because of that, they have a huge student/teacher ratio and subpar and ill maintained campuses. Mr Duncan has done very much with very little... He isn't a magician, but he's done a lot of good for Chicago Public Schools...

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: jonks
Answer the question. Where's the cronyism. See my post above.

This guy's experience is running a shitty school district and keeping it in that status.

You have amnesia or something? He's been director of the nation's third largest school system since 2001. The graph in your own post shows graduation rates in chicago, which were flat at 47% from 99-02, under his tenure went up to 55% by 2007, while drop-out rates fell nearly 10%.

But for shits and giggles, say I agreed that, despite this guy being involved in education advocacy and administration for almost 20 years, that he was "unqualified", that's one person. Where's the rampant cronyism?

Oh, btw, Alberto Gonzalez was a state Supreme Court judge.

He was not incredibly unqualified for atty gen, but it was just another step in the loyalty-reward system for a guy who never particularly distinguished himself. Appointed by Bush as a judge, after he was Secretary of State of Texas, also appointed by Bush, after working as Bush's general counsel. If he hadn't ended up as such a disgrace as atty gen, bush's next stop for him was as SC justice, an accolade reserved for the finest legal minds in the country, which Bush would have been happy to hand off to his personal lawyers as thank you notes.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism.

404 Change Not Found

PS - I voted for the man, but his tune has changed since he won the election.

404, your answer not found. I even laid out a nice long post with links for you. Come on, you can do it. You agreed with spidey about the disgusting level of rampant cronyism. Where is it. And like winnar, for sake of argument, I'll concede Arne. So let's put one in your column. Who else is unqualified and received appointment as a reward.

As to Obama changing his tune, yeah, he has. He's become even MORE centrist, to the point where the far left is pissed at his picks. He has broad support for almost all of his cabinet picks, even from conservative senators and pundits.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Picking people you know and trust is fine if they are qualified. In your book if the president personally knows someone who is highly qualified for the job he shouldn't appoint them simply because he knows them? Nice logic.

Harriet Miers was not qualified. Alberto Gonzales was not. That's why those picks are cronyism. Please point out someone Obama appointed that is not qualified. His picks are receiving wide bi-partisan support. Even Cheney thinks Obama picked a good team. If Obama picks someone with no experience for the post, you'll hear plenty about it here.

His national security team, which probably doesn't include the Secretary of Education....

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism. See my post above.

404 Change Not Found

PS - I voted for the man, but his tune has changed since he won the election.

I think that your idea of what change means in this context is different from everybody else's. This has already been pointed out to you, so I won't bother to explain it again.

It's as if you expect him to appoint somebody he's never met who works in a totally unrelated field. That sentiment is just bizarre, but that's about on par for anybody looking to be overly critical of the president-elect at this point.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Rainsford
You got any support for those facts you casually threw out about the Chicago school district and the implied inadequacy of Arne Duncan as a result? Even if Chicago schools look bad now...how much has Duncan improved them? Come on, attack boy, let's at least PRETEND you want to have a reasonable discussion about this.

Personally I think a superintendent of schools in a big city is a good choice for the job of education secretary. If we picked someone from a district with the highest performance, we'd probably end up with the superintendent from a rich suburb who doesn't have to do beans to get good results, since he has more funding and a better situation to begin with. Like it or not, schools across the country have some serious problems...I'd like an education secretary with some experience dealing with those kinds of issues.

http://news.medill.northwester...go/news.aspx?id=107795

Rates have gone up by a tad, but guess what, they still suck compared to the state average. And Chicago is still behind the average city.

Chicago Public Schools has a 55 percent graduation rate. That means, out of all students who start in Chicago schools in 9th grade, roughly half of them will finish within five years.

While this number has increased in recent years -- it was about 47 percent in 2000 -- it is still well below the national average.

During the 2003-2004 school year, the national average was about 70 percent, according to Editorial Projects in Education Research Center. The average for urban districts is about 60 percent.

So you're saying that the graduation rates went up slightly under his stewardship, during a period in which the travesty that is NCLB effectively sought to undermine the entire educational system, particularly in dense urban areas? Sounds like he's been fighting the good fight to me.

What was it the democrats have been saying about new leadership at failed companies?

Don't worry - the failed leadership is on its way out; ducking questions and flying shoes in the process. Seeing Duncan's tenure as the real failure in leadership is a leap only the most unrepentant of hacks will make. IOW, sounds about right winnar!

What travesty? The state of Illinois saw an increase in graduation rates despite the Chicago district bringing it down.

Oh Winnar, but you already admitted that Chicago has seen increased graduation rates. How long until you run away from this thread in shame too?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: winnar111
The lefties were crying about John Ashcroft from day 1.

And they were right.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to half agree with Red Dawn, Ashcroft turned out to be somewhat a international laughing stock when the prude clothed a nude Statue. But at least redeemed himself in my eyes when he resisted GWB on torture issues and got fired for his troubles.

The basic rule the Senate generally follows is to rubber stamp any Presidential appointment unless they have a good reason not to. And while I would have wished the Senate had been more critical of people like Rumsfeld, Brownie, Mukasey, Gonzales, and many others, GWB&co. was very successful in getting almost all his appointees through the advice and consent of the Senate process. Almost the lone exception was John Bolton who was a known total idiot and a disastrous recess appointment for the post of UN Ambassador. As for the Harriet Myers SCOTUS nomination, that one failed because of a GOP rebellion.

The time to bitch is usually when they become a disaster after they start in office.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Nothing to see here, just another troll post by loser11


Harvard Grad and also...


"He has seven years? experience as chief executive of the Chicago Public Schools, the nation?s third-largest school district, where he has earned a solid reputation for confronting pressing issues in public education, like how to raise teacher quality, how to transform weak schools and when to shutter those that are irredeemably failing."

Yep, the media is hard at work on their behalf. Too bad Chicago schools still suck.

WOW!

A 2 baseless troll post day for Winrar111. Nice job, you are upping your game.

Maybe tomorrow you can come up with 3 pointless posts =)

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism.

404 Change Not Found

PS - I voted for the man, but his tune has changed since he won the election.

404, your answer not found. I even laid out a nice long post with links for you. Come on, you can do it. You agreed with spidey about the disgusting level of rampant cronyism. Where is it. And like winnar, for sake of argument, I'll concede Arne. So let's put one in your column. Who else is unqualified and received appointment as a reward.

As to Obama changing his tune, yeah, he has. He's become even MORE centrist, to the point where the far left is pissed at his picks. He has broad support for almost all of his cabinet picks, even from conservative senators and pundits.

Sorry... really busy day... would love to school you, but it will have to wait.

Looking forward to Clinton 2.0, though.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Sorry... really busy day... would love to school you, but it will have to wait.

Looking forward to Clinton 2.0, though.

:laugh:

What a joke you are, and everyone else who flings crap while hiding from the real debate. There are about a half-dozen of you in this thread, and its always the usual suspects.

At least Duwelon and Butterbean post links. All you can come up with is some lame excuse about how busy you are? You really come here with this crap? :roll:

 

[DealMonkey]

Hmmm, I wonder what Fox News has to say about Duncan:

Arne Duncan -- President-elect Barack Obama's longtime friend and head of the country's third largest school district -- has a reputation as a tough education reformer.

And the setting for Obama's announcement Tuesday that Duncan is his choice for education secretary was meant to make that case. The Dodge Renaissance Academy -- once a failing school on Chicago's West Side -- was reopened by Duncan, Chicago's public schools chief, in 2002. It is now a thriving academy for students from pre-kindergarten through eighth grade, and a training site for student teachers.

[...]

As Chicago's education boss for seven years, Duncan, who attended Harvard University but has no degree in education, has been credited with boosting student test scores, raising the graduation rate by nearly 6 percent and creating 53 new public schools.

"In just seven years, he's boosted elementary test scores here in Chicago from 38 percent of students meeting the standards to 67 percent. The dropout rate has gone down every year he's been in charge," Obama said of Duncan.

[...]

Former Chicago public schools CEO Paul Vallas, who hired Duncan as his chief of staff in the mid-1990s, praised Duncan as a "bona fide school reformer" who is a "strong supporter of charter schools."

"His expansion of the number of charter schools in Chicago and his closing of a number of failing schools under Renaissance 2010 is clear testimony to that," Vallas told FOXNews.com.

"He pretty much had a cordial relationship with the union and was able to push very aggressive reforms without alienating union leaders or the rank and file," he said.

Vallas described Duncan as "unassuming" and "polite."

"He doesn't demagogue," said Vallas, adding that Duncan's "style, personality and temperament were well-suited for the job in Chicago and will be well-suited for his job as secretary of education."

Vallas said Duncan has called for more flexibility in the No Child Left Behind school accountability law, but does not plan to scrap the initiative entirely.

"He supports it, but wants to improve it," Vallas said.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...mer-chicago-educators/[/quote]

How is this guy not an excellent pick for education secretary?!?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Sorry... really busy day... would love to school you, but it will have to wait.

Looking forward to Clinton 2.0, though.

:laugh:

What a joke you are, and everyone else who flings crap while hiding from the real debate. There are about a half-dozen of you in this thread, and its always the usual suspects.

At least Duwelon and Butterbean post links. All you can come up with is some lame excuse about how busy you are? You really come here with this crap? :roll:

Yep. Not all of us have all day to argue with strangers, so I just come and go for quick jabs when I have a moment. When I have time, I participate much more, but I'm swamped with work, school, and the family at the moment.

But hey, look on the bright side: I'm finally paying attention to you!

 

[First]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Sorry... really busy day... would love to school you, but it will have to wait.

Looking forward to Clinton 2.0, though.

:laugh:

What a joke you are, and everyone else who flings crap while hiding from the real debate. There are about a half-dozen of you in this thread, and its always the usual suspects.

At least Duwelon and Butterbean post links. All you can come up with is some lame excuse about how busy you are? You really come here with this crap? :roll:

Yep. Not all of us have all day to argue with strangers, so I just come and go for quick jabs when I have a moment. When I have time, I participate much more, but I'm swamped with work, school, and the family at the moment.

But hey, look on the bright side: I'm finally paying attention to you!

Says the guy with 5400 posts in 3 years. :laugh:

 

[AbAbber2k]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: winnar111

http://news.medill.northwester...go/news.aspx?id=107795

Rates have gone up by a tad, but guess what, they still suck compared to the state average. And Chicago is still behind the average city.

Chicago Public Schools has a 55 percent graduation rate. That means, out of all students who start in Chicago schools in 9th grade, roughly half of them will finish within five years.

While this number has increased in recent years -- it was about 47 percent in 2000 -- it is still well below the national average.

During the 2003-2004 school year, the national average was about 70 percent, according to Editorial Projects in Education Research Center. The average for urban districts is about 60 percent.

What was it the democrats have been saying about new leadership at failed companies?

So in his 7 years or so of being in charge, the Chicago schools have increased their graduation rate by nearly 20% and you're saying this is a bad thing? Can we declare Winnar patient zero for ODS?

That's like taking a dirty shirt to the cleaners and paying him for clearing out only half the stain before he gives you your shirt back.

You fail on so many levels it isn't even funny. :roll:

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
This kind of shit really pisses me off.

Then you can get on a plane and leave.

Oh wait... that's your folks' line. Sorry about that... forgot which side I was arguing for.

I assure you, no one else did

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Hmmm, I wonder what Fox News has to say about Duncan:

Arne Duncan -- President-elect Barack Obama's longtime friend and head of the country's third largest school district -- has a reputation as a tough education reformer.

And the setting for Obama's announcement Tuesday that Duncan is his choice for education secretary was meant to make that case. The Dodge Renaissance Academy -- once a failing school on Chicago's West Side -- was reopened by Duncan, Chicago's public schools chief, in 2002. It is now a thriving academy for students from pre-kindergarten through eighth grade, and a training site for student teachers.

[...]

As Chicago's education boss for seven years, Duncan, who attended Harvard University but has no degree in education, has been credited with boosting student test scores, raising the graduation rate by nearly 6 percent and creating 53 new public schools.

"In just seven years, he's boosted elementary test scores here in Chicago from 38 percent of students meeting the standards to 67 percent. The dropout rate has gone down every year he's been in charge," Obama said of Duncan.

[...]

Former Chicago public schools CEO Paul Vallas, who hired Duncan as his chief of staff in the mid-1990s, praised Duncan as a "bona fide school reformer" who is a "strong supporter of charter schools."

"His expansion of the number of charter schools in Chicago and his closing of a number of failing schools under Renaissance 2010 is clear testimony to that," Vallas told FOXNews.com.

"He pretty much had a cordial relationship with the union and was able to push very aggressive reforms without alienating union leaders or the rank and file," he said.

Vallas described Duncan as "unassuming" and "polite."

"He doesn't demagogue," said Vallas, adding that Duncan's "style, personality and temperament were well-suited for the job in Chicago and will be well-suited for his job as secretary of education."

Vallas said Duncan has called for more flexibility in the No Child Left Behind school accountability law, but does not plan to scrap the initiative entirely.

"He supports it, but wants to improve it," Vallas said.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...mer-chicago-educators/

How is this guy not an excellent pick for education secretary?!?[/quote]

Because he's Obama's pick?

Honestly, I know I'm trying to defend the guy too, because I think he's a good choice. By anybody in this thread who thinks it's about anything more than Obama-bashing is fooling themselves...

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Sorry... really busy day... would love to school you, but it will have to wait.

Looking forward to Clinton 2.0, though.

:laugh:

What a joke you are, and everyone else who flings crap while hiding from the real debate. There are about a half-dozen of you in this thread, and its always the usual suspects.

At least Duwelon and Butterbean post links. All you can come up with is some lame excuse about how busy you are? You really come here with this crap? :roll:

Yep. Not all of us have all day to argue with strangers, so I just come and go for quick jabs when I have a moment. When I have time, I participate much more, but I'm swamped with work, school, and the family at the moment.

But hey, look on the bright side: I'm finally paying attention to you!

Says the guy with 5400 posts in 3 years. :laugh:

Like I said, there are times when I have all day to jerk around on here. Now isn't one of those times. Good reading comprehension, though :thumbsup:

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: spidey07
The amount of cronyism Obama is displaying is downright disgusting.

This

Answer the question. Where's the cronyism.

404 Change Not Found
PS - I voted for the man, but his tune has changed since he won the election.

404, your answer not found. I even laid out a nice long post with links for you. Come on, you can do it. You agreed with spidey about the disgusting level of rampant cronyism. Where is it. And like winnar, for sake of argument, I'll concede Arne. So let's put one in your column. Who else is unqualified and received appointment as a reward.

As to Obama changing his tune, yeah, he has. He's become even MORE centrist, to the point where the far left is pissed at his picks. He has broad support for almost all of his cabinet picks, even from conservative senators and pundits.

Sorry... really busy day... would love to school you, but it will have to wait.
Looking forward to Clinton 2.0, though.

No worries, I can wait. Bookmarked for next week, or the week after, seeing as how the holidays is a busy time for everyone. Hopefully you'll get a chance some time in the new year to backup your position that the level of cronyism in Obama's appointments is disgusting. I mean, if you were able to come to that conclusion so quickly, surely it couldn't be hard to explain how, especially with the help of those links I left you. So, I'm all ready to be schooled when you have a chance. Have a nice week, and happy holidays.