RY62
Senior member
- Mar 13, 2005
- 891
- 153
- 106
Exactly
And to quote Michelle Obama...
"If we don't know who people are inside, if we don't trust their instincts and understand where they're coming from, then we can't follow them, which is why we've tried to be so open and clear about who we are and how we think," she said.
With that in mind, I'm seeking clarity on these 2 statements.
3-14-2008 Interview on FOX:
"None of these statements were ones that I had heard myself personally in the pews."
3-18-2008 Race speach
"Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes."
Though Rainsford provided an insightful answer, it's still not clear to me. I'm beginning to think it's going to be like trying to determine what the definition of "is" is.
Well, they finally got the dirt they wanted on Obama. That no experience thing was getting pretty old anyway. What a silly stupid game politics is.
The question may be about judgement, but since you have yet to provide any answers... You guys keep saying "judgement", "Obama" and "Wright" in close proximity as many times as possible and hope you sort of stumble sideways into an argument about why people shouldn't vote for Obama for President. How exactly did Obama show poor judgement here, and if so, what makes it bad enough that the other candidates would be better choices? Those are two questions I have yet to see a real answer for.
Indeed...and when an argument relies chiefly on linguistic hair splitting, chances are good that it's not a very good argument to begin with. But look at who's actually DOING the linguistic hair splitting, it's not Obama or his supporters. Obama has said many times, flat out, that he doesn't agree with what Wright said. His opponents, on the other hand, keep repeating just two words Obama said..."moral compass", as if that were the entire argument. In terms of a link to previous situations, the way Kerry was attacked for "global test" would seem to be more appropriate.
Originally posted by: lupi
Actually I believe Hussein said he wasn't present when the comments that are now youtube stars were made, but he did know of the material he preached. He just didn't approve of it.
Kinda like voting "present"
:roll: Tool
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
- 144
- 106
Wright = apples
Imus = oranges
It is funny why no one seems to care about that. Instead we get these half ass arguments that Obama is showing poor judgement over including a CHRISTIAN PASTOR in his inner circle of trusted people.
Pastors are masters of hyperbole...and (for the most part) that is what we are seeing in these video segments. I agree though that some of it is just poor judgement and thinking...
What Imus said was brainless and meant to be funny in a very racist way. Fortunately no one got the "joke."
Imus = oranges
It is funny why no one seems to care about that. Instead we get these half ass arguments that Obama is showing poor judgement over including a CHRISTIAN PASTOR in his inner circle of trusted people.
Pastors are masters of hyperbole...and (for the most part) that is what we are seeing in these video segments. I agree though that some of it is just poor judgement and thinking...
What Imus said was brainless and meant to be funny in a very racist way. Fortunately no one got the "joke."
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
I'll have a go. Obama showed poor judgment because he was aware of the very controversial statements his pastor made, by his own admission at the time he ran for president, and he still put him on his campaign. Obama was outspoken against Imus and stated anyone on his campaign who said something like that would be fired. Instead, he hired someone like that. See RY62's post above for the long list of public statements Wright has made on race and whites. I can't put Obama in the pew everytime one of these statements was made, but I'm going to put the burden on him of proving he was somehow unaware after 20 years of almost weekly attendance of his pastors views. I don't think that's unreasonable. He hasn't to my satisfaction explained away his ignorance of Wright's views. Distancing yourself from his comments isn't good enough. He didn't explain enough of why he'd stay at a church where these things are standard MO.
And if you believe Obama chose to allign himself with this guy despite the hateful rhetoric, then it's not unreasonable to question his judgment, which has been the cornerstone of his campaign. Last week Obama admitted the amount Rezko raised for him was substantially higher than he first revealed. And he involved himself with Rezko even after a federal investigation was underway. That's bad judgment. And if you throw his judgment into question, as all candidates have made questionable decisions over their lives, the next qualification would be experience, and he loses out there.
I don't expect any Obama supporter to drop their support over this, given the 2 alternatives in the race, but it does get a bit annoying seeing every issue raised with regard to Obama explained away and shrugged off as if nothing matters and he's innocent in every situation. I've disagreed with various Clinton tactics or positions this election cycle, from her repeatedly citing McCain as more experienced than Obama (thou shalt not promote a Rep over a fellow Dem!) to calling for the FL/MI "primaries" to count. Yet I don't see any Obama supporters giving any credence to any criticism of him. He gets the benefit of the doubt with regard to every single thing thrown at him, and it makes his supporters look brainwashed.
Is there nothing he's done that you people disagree with at all?
Being a Christian pastor makes the crap he's spewing even worse... and on top of that it's been going on for how long?
Very poor, but he has the right to lead his flock the way he sees fit. I don't agree with what he's saying and if i were black I would hope I would go to a different church rather then sit there and listen to that. Instead I see people applauding and slapping Wright on the back the more oputrageous he gets.
Yeah, Imus was wrong but what he did was more of a brainfart, what Wright did was planned in advance in order to whip his congregation into a moral fervor. Which is worse?
cubeless
Diamond Member
- Sep 17, 2001
- 4,295
- 1
- 81
the country was founded by a bunch of capitalists who wanted to keep more of their profit... slavery was just another tool to further that goal...
unconstrained capitalism will, from time to time, be used by bad people to do bad things... just like any tool... a resonable political system is one that can help constrain the baser instincts of it's populace to keep the overachievers from killing the goose that lays the golden eggs...
at it's core, slavery wasn't about being mean to blacks, it was about utilizing an available resource to improve profits... too bad that the founding fathers weren't, amongst all of their other amazing capabilities, intelligent enough to see the long term unsustainability of the system and be bold enough to fix it... you can see the corrolory in the oil and american auto industries... when short term profit is the goal, the long term consequences get overlooked...
lupi
Lifer
- Apr 8, 2001
- 32,539
- 260
- 126
Asked why he didn't denounce the controversial comment when he first heard of them more than a year ago, Obama noted Wright was on the verge of retirement.
"I told him that I profoundly disagreed with his positions. As I said before, he was on, at that stage, on the verge of retirement. ... You make decisions about these issues. And my belief was that given that he was about to retire, that for me to make a political statement respecting my church at that time wasn't necessary."
Or just keep believing what you "know".
OH! WOW! Like anyone sitting in the pews on a Sunday morning remembers or even listens to what the man behind the pulpit says. Man thoughts on Sunday," game, beer, nice tits, zzzz, butt hurts, hammock, boat, beer, fishing, nap, game, nice ass, zzz, boner, cross legs, cook out, steak, zzzz, HUH!, OWW!(wife gives poke in ribs) Amen and time to go home".
Blown way out of proportion by nitpicking politicals, how many interns where researching the pastor's sermons?
Blown way out of proportion by nitpicking politicals, how many interns where researching the pastor's sermons?
:thumbsup:
I remember when I used to go to church on Sundays. Man, sitting in the back row next to the window. Those were the best naps of my life. There's nothing better than a good Sunday meal right after church service. Wow, I miss those days.
GodlessAstronomer
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2007
- 17,009
- 5
- 0
If I were American I would be more worried about politicians in general garnering advice and a moral compass from religious "leaders".
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