Obama - no to Keystone pipeline

[Darwin333]

Originally Posted by soundforbjt
Makes no difference when we don't get the oil.



No, just the opposite.

They are building this to cut off the midwest market hubs and to ship oil out from the Gulf.

Does anyone actually read the articles in here?

Now they are going to build a pipeline completely within the borders of Canada and you're still going to get cut off.

All your oil are belong to them.

 

[dmcowen674]

Now they are going to build a pipeline completely within the borders of Canada and you're still going to get cut off.

All your oil are belong to them.

No, that means the current pipeline from Cushing Oklahoma would continue to deliver oil to the Midwest.

 

[readymix]

Originally Posted by spidey07
I bet China is laughing all over themselves.

I dont blame them, since some of that oil will find its way there.

they did'nt invest 15 bil. up there the last few years for only some of it.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No, that means the current pipeline from Cushing Oklahoma would continue to deliver oil to the Midwest.

As long as the Canadians don't choose to divert it sources to their west coast.

 

[Darwin333]

No, that means the current pipeline from Cushing Oklahoma would continue to deliver oil to the Midwest.

If they wanted to divert it for exports then why wouldn't they still do so with the pipeline they build to the westcoast for the sole purpose of exporting oil? The pipelines will be tied in to each other so all they would have to do is close a few valves and open a few and voila, no more oil for you.

The end result is the same.

 

[theeedude]

There was not enough time to study this in the 60 days schedule that the Republicans forced. This was the only responsible decision in that time frame.

 

[Fern]

There was not enough time to study this in the 60 days schedule that the Republicans forced. This was the only responsible decision in that time frame.

Hahaha.

This thing has been under 'study' since 2008.

Fern

 

[NeoV]

so why the 60-day GOP imposed deadline?

Why is looking at or proposing alternate routes for the pipeline such a problem?

 

[CanOWorms]

So you think the Canadians are going to just stop oil production in the tar sands? They already have a plan to build a pipeline that is completely within their borders to their east coast and export it from there. How do you suppose that Obama stop them from doing that? Maybe he could put tariffs on the oil they already sell us?

Don't they want to send it to the Gulf for refining purposes? They don't want to just export the oil, but the refined products.

Also, Obama is no friend of Canada. He has been realigning US interests in one of the greatest feats of international relations. I'm sure he can find many ways to us US resources to prevent any Canadian activity. For example, he can further promote other energy resources to further diminish the usefulness of oil from the Canadian tar sands.

 

[Tom]

the big lie..

if this is all about private industry then why don't they just build it ?

the fact is the politicians in the big refinery states want the rest of us to subsidize this for them. Welfare is great if it's for corporations..

the other fact is, nothing Obama did will affect the project one way or the other at this point. It's a convenient political issue for the Republicans to feed their base with, at this time.

 

[cybrsage]

Yes, they want to use US refineries to turn their oil into many different products.

 

[cybrsage]

the big lie..

if this is all about private industry then why don't they just build it?

Obama said they cannot build it. That is the entire reason this thread exists. You cannot legally just build whatever you want, you need a permit (or many permits).

It's a convenient political issue for the Republicans to feed their base with, at this time.

Unions are not typically a republican base. Unions wanted this thing to be approved. Obama basically told them to pound sand. Know why? He knows they will vote for him anyway, no matter what he does to them.

 

[bfdd]

Our leaders are idiots. Not Obama specifically, but the people who "lead" us are. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ia-after-obama-rejects-keystone-pipeline.html No shit? No one saw this happening? How is it a good idea to turn down the opportunity to create a lot of wealth and jobs for the USA and Canada? Fucking morons down here in the States, Canada is doing the smart/right thing by them. Good for them. When the USA finally comes a crumbling down and we Balkanize I'm going to say "I told you so" for you idiots who wanted to continue to hack away at the only things we really have left supporting us, our food industry and our energy industry.

 

[herm0016]

You guys know this is a pipeline to let Canada ship their oil to the Gulf right? It doesn't benefit us...

to be refined in our refineries in TX. that benifits us!

as far as the tar sands go, the oil will be produced no matter what. they will just send it somewhere else at a higher cost.

 

[K1052]

Hahaha.

This thing has been under 'studied' since 2008.

Fern

There have been concerns about the DOS final EIS for the project, consequently the President kicked it over to the Inspector General to review the EIS. Given that the current route is likely to embroil the government in a number of lawsuits some of which could even be brought by state AGs along the route (Nebraska in particular) it was reasonable to do so. The Republican demand to forgo any further review was irresponsible (and politically motivated to manufacture a controversy) in light of the circumstances.

TransCanada will end up adjusting the route and it will probably be approved somewhere down the road after the election. Overall I find the purported economic benefits to be questionable at best since the vast majority of that oil will end up refined product that gets shipped out of the country. All we get are a couple thousand temporary construction jobs for assuming the risk of transport.

 

[bfdd]

to be refined in our refineries in TX. that benifits us!

as far as the tar sands go, the oil will be produced no matter what. they will just send it somewhere else at a higher cost.

Exactly, wtf? Not to mention it has to go through our ports and our hands, we get some cut of it. This creates wealth AND jobs for the USA, for very very little risk. This is absolute non-sense from eco-kooks pushing against this. To many people in this country are misinformed or completely uninformed when it comes to our energy production and really should shut the fuck up and exit the goddamn conversation. This includes a large majority of our "leadership."

 

[alphatarget1]

It's all part of the master plan to drive oil and gas prices higher so people will spend money they don't have to buy foreign built electric cars.

I can't help but think Obama and the Democrats are doing this out of spite. For a big project like this, there's got to be alternative alignments/routes that were considered. You could argue as an environmentalist that developing tar sand is bad for the environment, but do they really think that by killing this pipeline, Alberta will just sit on the tar sand and not do anything with it? Hell no, they will find some other market and sell it that way.

It wouldn't surprise me if Obama and the Democrats are doing this to get back at states that will never vote for him, states that are becoming more and more powerful as opposed to Democratic blue states.

 

[Tom]

Obama said they cannot build it. That is the entire reason this thread exists. You cannot legally just build whatever you want, you need a permit (or many permits).



Unions are not typically a republican base. Unions wanted this thing to be approved. Obama basically told them to pound sand. Know why? He knows they will vote for him anyway, no matter what he does to them.

eminent domain used for a private purpose is a government subsidy.

in my opinion it's also a violation of the Constitution which only gives that power for public interests.

 

[K1052]

Exactly, wtf? Not to mention it has to go through our ports and our hands, we get some cut of it. This creates wealth AND jobs for the USA, for very very little risk. This is absolute non-sense from eco-kooks pushing against this. To many people in this country are misinformed or completely uninformed when it comes to our energy production and really should shut the fuck up and exit the goddamn conversation. This includes a large majority of our "leadership."

The entire point of this exercise is to avoid Canadian and US taxes by exporting lucrative refined product through free trade zones to foreign countries instead of the US market. Leaving us with all the environmental risk and little of the reward.

 

[Fern]

There have been concerns about the DOS final EIS for the project, consequently the President kicked it over to the Inspector General to review the EIS. Given that the current route is likely to embroil the government in a number of lawsuits some of which could even be brought by state AGs along the route (Nebraska in particular) it was reasonable to do so. The Republican demand to forgo any further review was irresponsible (and politically motivated to manufacture a controversy) in light of the circumstances.

TransCanada will end up adjusting the route and it will probably be approved somewhere down the road after the election. Overall I find the purported economic benefits to be questionable at best since the vast majority of that oil will end up refined product that gets shipped out of the country. All we get are a couple thousand temporary construction jobs for assuming the risk of transport.

I thought Canada said 'fish or cut bait'. I.e., no approval soon and they go to plan 'B'.

An (new) alternate route will face every hurdle the original faced. More enviro studies, more lawsuits etc. will all be necessary to proceed.

My guess is that it isn't worth it. More delays, more money etc with no certainty of success.

Maybe they'll wait until Nov to see if Obama is out and try again.

Fern

 

[DucatiMonster696]

This is just a plain stupid move. As others have stated this operation of extracting tar sands oil is going to occur no matter what we decide because Canada is already embarking on this venture full steam ahead. However due to Obama's action likelihood is that the economic benefits of refinement and exportation will occur elsewhere since there will be no pipe line into the US and no oil refined will pass through our refineries or ports. Seriously some of you people need a freaking crash course on economics and logic.

 

[K1052]

I can't help but think Obama and the Democrats are doing this out of spite. For a big project like this, there's got to be alternative alignments/routes that were considered. You could argue as an environmentalist that developing tar sand is bad for the environment, but do they really think that by killing this pipeline, Alberta will just sit on the tar sand and not do anything with it? Hell no, they will find some other market and sell it that way.

It wouldn't surprise me if Obama and the Democrats are doing this to get back at states that will never vote for him, states that are becoming more and more powerful as opposed to Democratic blue states.

Nebraska is a blue state? The governor asked Obama to kill the pipeline as currently routed and he's not exactly a die hard liberal.

 

[Bitek]

I think the concerns are valid but it isn't exactly an insurmountable engineering challenge to limit damage in case of leakage/blowout. It's not on the bottom of the sea floor, for one. As long as it's well designed and they have a good response plan, I think the risks are managable.

That's why I think it was wise he disapproved this plan. Nonpartisan sources said the plan was not complete and needed much fleshing out before it could be reviewed. Rs took a hold of it and forced it into the tax deal to try and stick Obama in the eye.

This should have never been put in the bill in the first place. My bet is that it will be resubmitted once the plan is complete and will be approved.

The company building the pipeline is the one who got screwed here. They got put in the middle of a petty fight and now is having their time wasted. Congress would be wise to stay out.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

There have been concerns about the DOS final EIS for the project, consequently the President kicked it over to the Inspector General to review the EIS. Given that the current route is likely to embroil the government in a number of lawsuits some of which could even be brought by state AGs along the route (Nebraska in particular) it was reasonable to do so. The Republican demand to forgo any further review was irresponsible (and politically motivated to manufacture a controversy) in light of the circumstances.

TransCanada will end up adjusting the route and it will probably be approved somewhere down the road after the election. Overall I find the purported economic benefits to be questionable at best since the vast majority of that oil will end up refined product that gets shipped out of the country. All we get are a couple thousand temporary construction jobs for assuming the risk of transport.

So you are suggesting that the taxes collected on these transactions would be nill. WTF are you smoking.

 

[umbrella39]

Obama to kill a huge job producer..

More lies from the Resident Pinocchio. Grow up Spidey and BTW......GOOD!

One of the few correct things Obama has done in 4 years.