Obama - no to Keystone pipeline

[dmcowen674]

It's a good project and the Republicans would be lax in their responsibility if they didn't try to get the bill passed. Plus as an added bonus it'll play good in the elections. win/win

It's good for profits for rich Republicans but certainly not in the best interest of the U.S. especially for the Midwest but of course you are all for profits above country.

You are right about one thing though, it will play good in the elections........... for Democrats.

 

[monovillage]

It's good for profits for rich Republicans but certainly not in the best interest of the U.S. especially for the Midwest but of course you are all for profits above country.

You are right about one thing though, it will play good in the elections........... for Democrats.

That's not my opinion. You are welcome to yours, even if I think it's wrong.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you believe that the States have the power to overrule any and all Federal studies if one of their agencies comes up with a different answer? How about environmental regulation since that is basically what we are talking about? If the State of Nebraska found that CO2 is not a "pollutant" should they be able to override the Federal EPA?

I understand they are sort of different issues and that Nebraska should have some say in where the pipeline is routed but they have had a long time to do this analysis themselves. How long should we allow a state to stall a Federal infrastructure project?

Please keep in mind that these exact same tactics will be (and have been) used to halt or slow down renewable energy projects, rail expansion, HSR, new and more efficient power plants, etc... The studies have been done on the alternate routes already. If they want it to run along the same route as the existing pipelines then fine, tell Transcanada that is what they must do but since the studies have already been done there is no reason to stall the project for years and perhaps lose the entire project if they get tired of waiting.

Sigh. Given the pace of the under staffed federal courts (thanks, Repubs!) the people of Nebraska might be able to delay the project for nearly a decade. Let's face it- what's in it for them is negligible. Obviously, it's better to find a route that meets with their approval, something that the Repub grandstanding demand didn't account for. Perversely, if Obama really wanted to kill the pipeline for the near future, he'd have met Repubs' demands, leaving it stalled in the court system until well past 2016...

Repubs efforts amount to contrivance in an attempt to manufacture an issue, divert attention from their own job killing agenda. Cut, cut, Cut! State & Federal spending, as if that won't mean layoffs & job loss... along with further infrastructure decay wrt things we all use, like roads, bridges & so forth-

If the public buys this red herring as fresh fish, we've degenerated into a nation of idiots.

 

[Darwin333]

It's a good project and the Republicans would be lax in their responsibility if they didn't try to get the bill passed. Plus as an added bonus it'll play good in the elections. win/win

I have probably been the biggest supporter of the pipeline here and have without a doubt laid out the best argument, backed by facts, on why it should be approved.

With that said, Obama is NOT going to change his mind before the election. It just simply will not happen so at this point the Reps are doing it purely for politics and I disagree with that. There is going to be a lot of wasted time and potentially good bills fucked up (not sure if the one in question is or isn't) from them playing politics.

I didn't agree with Obama's purely political decision and I don't agree with the Reps now either. I sort of agreed with them the first go 'round because I thought maybe Obama would approve it which I believe he always intended to just not right before the election. This time around though he damn sure isn't going to reverse his decision which will piss off a segment of his base even more and give the Reps even more mud to sling at him. No way it hell it happens.

 

[Darwin333]

I appreciate the candor but I don't understand why you think he would have approved it next year. His base is going to vote for him anyway, to me it seems even less likely that he would approve it once the election was over. I think you are hoping that when you take politics out of the equation he is a reasonable person that makes decisions based on facts but after the last three years I honestly don't believe that about him.

He had very large groups of environmentalists that did a TON of campaigning (both monetary and actual boots on the ground work) for him last election threatening to pull their support. Of course they would still vote for him but the lose of their support campaigning would have been a pretty big hit.

 

[monovillage]

I have probably been the biggest supporter of the pipeline here and have without a doubt laid out the best argument, backed by facts, on why it should be approved.

With that said, Obama is NOT going to change his mind before the election. It just simply will not happen so at this point the Reps are doing it purely for politics and I disagree with that. There is going to be a lot of wasted time and potentially good bills fucked up (not sure if the one in question is or isn't) from them playing politics.

I didn't agree with Obama's purely political decision and I don't agree with the Reps now either. I sort of agreed with them the first go 'round because I thought maybe Obama would approve it which I believe he always intended to just not right before the election. This time around though he damn sure isn't going to reverse his decision which will piss off a segment of his base even more and give the Reps even more mud to sling at him. No way it hell it happens.

Yours is a very honest and ethical position and I respect it.
I think that his rejection of the pipeline will resonate with the voters in June (primaries) and November and it's something I want in the news regularly.

 

[Darwin333]

Sigh. Given the pace of the under staffed federal courts (thanks, Repubs!) the people of Nebraska might be able to delay the project for nearly a decade. Let's face it- what's in it for them is negligible. Obviously, it's better to find a route that meets with their approval, something that the Repub grandstanding demand didn't account for. Perversely, if Obama really wanted to kill the pipeline for the near future, he'd have met Repubs' demands, leaving it stalled in the court system until well past 2016...

Repubs efforts amount to contrivance in an attempt to manufacture an issue, divert attention from their own job killing agenda. Cut, cut, Cut! State & Federal spending, as if that won't mean layoffs & job loss... along with further infrastructure decay wrt things we all use, like roads, bridges & so forth-

If the public buys this red herring as fresh fish, we've degenerated into a nation of idiots.

You didn't address the 2nd part of my post and I have addressed the alternate routes issue, as has Obama's State Department, numerous times.

I was at a very large solar convention not long ago and that was one of the main things that the industry people I spoke to foresaw impeding the replacement of fossil fuels with renewables going forward.

Edit: And I fail to understand your point with the State and local "investment" chart. State and local .govs have taken serious funding hits from high unemployment, plummeting real estate taxes and very high expenses (namely pensions).

 

[Darwin333]

Yours is a very honest and ethical position and I respect it.
I think that his rejection of the pipeline will resonate with the voters in June (primaries) and November and it's something I want in the news regularly.

I don't mind the keeping it the news part if that is what your team thinks will help them but I do mind the holding up potentially good legislation for something that will not possibly happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

You didn't address the 2nd part of my post and I have addressed the alternate routes issue, as has Obama's State Department, numerous times.

Not really. The Repubs offered only an up or down proposition- as is or not at all. Take it or leave it. They purposefully left Obama no room to maneuver around Nebraska's objections, to offer conditional approval based on alternate routes or anything else.

I don't mind the keeping it the news part if that is what your team thinks will help them but I do mind the holding up potentially good legislation for something that will not possibly happen.

How else will they keep it in the news if not through extortion? Otherwise, it's a dead issue.

 

[NeoV]

so the fact that it went from 100,000 jobs to a few thousand jobs is me being gullible?

How about the fact that the 'study' actually used 100 years as it's 'basis'? If that isn't misleading, I don't know what is.

 

[dmcowen674]

This is what happens when the Government gives approval for a pipeline

2-1-12

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/landowners-fight-eminent-domain-pa-215039548.html

Landowners fight eminent domain in Pa. gas field


Landowners fight pipeline co.'s eminent domain land grab in Pa.'s Marcellus Shale gas field


A pipeline operator assured federal regulators it would minimize using eminent domain against private landowners if given approval to lay a 39-mile natural gas pipeline in northern Pennsylvania's pristine Endless Mountains.

Within two days of winning approval, Central New York Oil & Gas Co., LLC went to court to condemn nearly half the properties along the pipeline's route — undercutting part of the regulatory commission's approval rationale and angering landowners who are now fighting the company in court.

Some of the complaining landowners say the company steamrolled them by refusing to negotiate in good faith on either monetary compensation or the pipeline's route. Their attorneys say the company has skirted Pennsylvania's eminent domain rules governing compensation.

Amy Gardner said a CNYOG company representative who made them the lowball offer told them to "take it or leave it." She would not publicly disclose what the company had offered.

"There's no negotiating with this company. They come and they tell you what they're going to do. They're telling you what they're going to pay. And they're counting on the government to enforce it"

The regulators said last year that they relied on the company's assertion it was acquiring land "through negotiated agreements with landowners, thus minimizing the need" to condemn people's land.


In reality, Central New York Oil & Gas had already prepared to take dozens of landowners to court. Within two days of getting the commission's approval on Nov. 14, it began eminent domain proceedings in court against 74 of 152 property owners along the pipeline's route through the mountains of Bradford, Lycoming and Sullivan counties.

Deborah Goldberg, an attorney for the environmental group Earthjustice, said the large number of condemnations suggests that the pipeline company "never made a serious effort to get negotiated agreements with the landowners that the landowners thought were fair."

Some landowners aren't interested in the money. They're more concerned about the pipeline's route.


The company told Bob Swartz that it plans to cut a 50-foot-wide, 400-foot-long gash through an ancient stand of trees across the front of his property. When Swartz proposed an alternate route through an open field that would preserve his trees and views, the company said it wasn't interested and offered instead to pay him for the wood.


"That's not negotiation. It was their way or no way, and 'we'll see you in court.' It's the little guys against Goliath," said Swartz, who has challenged the company in court.