Obama Makes Another Threat

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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0
For what its worth, the US and Nato now say they have video proof that the attack killed 35 militants and 7 only seven civilians.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...2nzG_qVALBNSaSFMdvaA8F

Since I cannot comment one way or the other on information not yet released, I just post the link on yahoo news.

I also now edit in a three page article in today's NYT showing what the US report must
contend with.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09...ml?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Including the first claim that the main Taliban target on the raid has called in and said he was never in that village and is alive and well.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Palehorse, you may well be right that Pakistani checkpoints being a joke, but perhaps your delusion is that Pakistan does not share all US priorities because it has different priorities of its own.
Yes, I know. Unlike the U.S. and NATO, Pakistan supports the Taliban

Thanks for keeping up.

What you are by implication asserting is that its all Nato's way or the highway, black or white, with no shades of gray in between. And if you demand perfect co operation between countries, you will never find it on the face of this earth. But in terms of a reliable partner in the war on terror, Pakistan has arrested more Al-Quida agents than the rest of the world combined, leaving Nato a far distant second or thirds. In my mind, that makes Pakistan a pretty good partner to have.
The Taliban have grown stronger in Pakistan during the last six years. Do you find that acceptable?

But if you complain about imperfect Pakistani checkpoints, you do have the option to set up perfect Nato ones on your side of the border, but whatver you do do not rely on Afghan run checkpoints, because the entire Afghan government is sadly and almost totally corrupt.
Do you have any proof that Afghan forces are working with, financing, or otherwise directly supporting AQ and the Taliban? If so, please post it.

Thanks

And instead of doing the things you can do, namely help reduce the corruption in the Afghan government, and help stamp out the opium trade in Afghanistan, you ask some other governments to do things not in their national interests.
Destroying the Taliban -- and every other violent terrorist group -- is in the World's interest. Pakistan needs to be on board with that, or they need to get the fuck out of the way. Period.

Your job is limited to fixing Afghanistan, Afghanistan, and Afghanistan. And there is one hell of a lot of positive things you could be doing in Afghanistan that you are simply not doing.
My job is finding and destroying AQ, the Taliban, and every other terrorist group. Period.

Please never presume to tell me my job again Mr. Interwebz Warrior.

Leaving your complaints about Pakistan more of an excuse than anything else.

And news flash to you, you are not the guru of the world, and you cannot expect everyone to fall at your feet and await your orders.
They simply need to get out of my way unless they feel the need to support my enemies. In that case, they'll die with the rest.

I'm finished with you chump.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Let me ask palehorse, which is more important, stopping Al-Quida or the Taliban? The reason I ask that question is that old line mujaheddin with CIA training are increasingly joining the anti Nato forces, they do not share the Taliban creed, but that is increasing becoming your opposition and that implies the Taliban will also be changing its focus.

I also noted you had no comment on either the yahoo news link or the NYT link I posted, but my guess is that the Azizabad strike and its aftermath will greatly change what Nato is and is not permitted to do inside of Afghanistan in terms use of air power. And may also likely result in Nato being absolutely forbidden to operate inside of Pakistan by both the UN and Pakistan. Especially if Nato is unable to demonstrate that it killed even one single Taliban fighter.
 

Blunc

Senior member
Oct 4, 2007
268
0
71
perhaps we should just do as green bean wants, America should just quit being the "police of the world"....and while the USA is no longer giving the smackdown to tyrants that invade Kuwait anymore then maybe the USA will just quit giving out billions in aid to every country that has their needy little hands out.
no more superior weapons sold to anyone
no more earthquake relief
no more rebuilding countries that attacked the USA first
no more oil dependency...period! you have no power over us if we don't need your stuff!

who will the rest of the world go crying to if/when the USA says "ENOUGH!"?, China...Russia...Venezuela....Switzerland...Iraq...Iran?

I think it would be a real "eye opener" for the rest of the world if the USA just took all their marbles and went home for just one year, no assistance to or from anyone.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: Blunc
perhaps we should just do as green bean wants, America should just quit being the "police of the world"....and while the USA is no longer giving the smackdown to tyrants that invade Kuwait anymore then maybe the USA will just quit giving out billions in aid to every country that has their needy little hands out.
no more superior weapons sold to anyone
no more earthquake relief
no more rebuilding countries that attacked the USA first
no more oil dependency...period! you have no power over us if we don't need your stuff!

who will the rest of the world go crying to if/when the USA says "ENOUGH!"?, China...Russia...Venezuela....Switzerland...Iraq...Iran?

I think it would be a real "eye opener" for the rest of the world if the USA just took all their marbles and went home for just one year, no assistance to or from anyone.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Blunc basically puts a 1 year cap on the Ron Paul position and predicts that the world would then fall apart.

But it still becomes somewhat revisionist history when applied to Gulf war 1, Gulf war 2, and Afghanistan, where US meddling was very much the precursor in all three. And while we are at it, why not add in Iran Vietnam, Israel, plus a pile of other nations the USA and Nato have used as pawns as we have fought a cold war
with the evil empire of the Soviet Union.

Never mind the fact that the evil Russians who we thought we beat in the early 90's are now back, meanwhile we had to have an enemy to keep the military industrial complex alive, and a war on terror fit that bill.

But to not write a book about other conflicts, what we now have in Afghanistan is an occupation on the cheap that keeps Afghanistan in a State of perpetual state of chaos, corruption, and anarchy, because Nato tries to bite off more than it can chew. And if Nato goes into the tribal regions of Pakistan, all its going to create is chaos and anarchy in a larger area. Brutal as the Taliban is, the Afghan people would be better off under their control that it is now to be in a shooting gallery where both elements vie for control and consign all of Afghanistan into a shooting gallery in perpetuity.

The US and Nato can hardly claim to be fighting in the interests of the Afghan people, we are in it for our own self interests and are not even doing a good job at that.

Our enemy is and remains Al-Quida which is an international terror movement which can and is basing itself anywhere. And any smart doable strategy must drive a wedge between Al-Quida and the Taliban which is a local homegrown movement
largely made more vicious and empowered by the Nato Presence which it wants to expel. Including the Taliban in the political process would allow the wedge to be driven and allow Nato a chance to find common cause fighting corruption and anarchy.

Since six years has taught us that our current strategy is failing, maybe its time to
try something smarter. And once economic development in Afghanistan is made possible, the Taliban as a popular movement will moderate their ideas. As it is, we fossilize their position and create a self fulfilling prophesy that is a lose lose lose strategy for everyone except Al-Quida.

If nothing else, Vietnam should have taught us, that in an insurgency, even if the other side has nothing to offer, when the country is made into a long term shooting gallery, the home grown insurgency wins every time.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: Blunc
perhaps we should just do as green bean wants, America should just quit being the "police of the world"....and while the USA is no longer giving the smackdown to tyrants that invade Kuwait anymore then maybe the USA will just quit giving out billions in aid to every country that has their needy little hands out.
no more superior weapons sold to anyone
no more earthquake relief
no more rebuilding countries that attacked the USA first
no more oil dependency...period! you have no power over us if we don't need your stuff!

who will the rest of the world go crying to if/when the USA says "ENOUGH!"?, China...Russia...Venezuela....Switzerland...Iraq...Iran?

I think it would be a real "eye opener" for the rest of the world if the USA just took all their marbles and went home for just one year, no assistance to or from anyone.

Considering there are more than 100 countries and we have piss poor support i don't really think we'd miss you that much since there are a 100 country big airforce ready to get in the air.

There is NOT ONE American who has crossed the border on ground, perhaps you should think about that before you dismiss the troops that actually do something besides driving prisoners and diplomats?

I'm in a pissy mood, no offence palehorse?
 

Blunc

Senior member
Oct 4, 2007
268
0
71
I don't recall saying the world would fall apart. I merely suggested that if the USA was going to quit doing what everyone is whining about and clean up the crap on it's own continent then people would start whining that the USA is not doing enough to help all the "poor" downtrodden countries.

I don't like that we have to have troops stationed in any other country so the other countries don't self-destruct, I'm all for eliminating the homeless/jobless people in the USA by keeping federal money on the continent.

If the USA was out of all the middle-eastern countries would the taliban and Al Quaida have anything left to complain about?
 

Blunc

Senior member
Oct 4, 2007
268
0
71
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Blunc
perhaps we should just do as green bean wants, America should just quit being the "police of the world"....and while the USA is no longer giving the smackdown to tyrants that invade Kuwait anymore then maybe the USA will just quit giving out billions in aid to every country that has their needy little hands out.
no more superior weapons sold to anyone
no more earthquake relief
no more rebuilding countries that attacked the USA first
no more oil dependency...period! you have no power over us if we don't need your stuff!

who will the rest of the world go crying to if/when the USA says "ENOUGH!"?, China...Russia...Venezuela....Switzerland...Iraq...Iran?

I think it would be a real "eye opener" for the rest of the world if the USA just took all their marbles and went home for just one year, no assistance to or from anyone.

Considering there are more than 100 countries and we have piss poor support i don't really think we'd miss you that much since there are a 100 country big airforce ready to get in the air.

There is NOT ONE American who has crossed the border on ground, perhaps you should think about that before you dismiss the troops that actually do something besides driving prisoners and diplomats?

I'm in a pissy mood, no offence palehorse?


I'm confused as to which side you're on here.

(time to release the sharks with laser beams....)
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: Blunc
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Blunc
perhaps we should just do as green bean wants, America should just quit being the "police of the world"....and while the USA is no longer giving the smackdown to tyrants that invade Kuwait anymore then maybe the USA will just quit giving out billions in aid to every country that has their needy little hands out.
no more superior weapons sold to anyone
no more earthquake relief
no more rebuilding countries that attacked the USA first
no more oil dependency...period! you have no power over us if we don't need your stuff!

who will the rest of the world go crying to if/when the USA says "ENOUGH!"?, China...Russia...Venezuela....Switzerland...Iraq...Iran?

I think it would be a real "eye opener" for the rest of the world if the USA just took all their marbles and went home for just one year, no assistance to or from anyone.

Considering there are more than 100 countries and we have piss poor support i don't really think we'd miss you that much since there are a 100 country big airforce ready to get in the air.

There is NOT ONE American who has crossed the border on ground, perhaps you should think about that before you dismiss the troops that actually do something besides driving prisoners and diplomats?

I'm in a pissy mood, no offence palehorse?


I'm confused as to which side you're on here.

(time to release the sharks with laser beams....)

I'm SAS, working in the border area but lately mostly inside of Pakistan, does that answer your question on who's side i am on?

What i am asking for are more boots on the ground, Airforce is doing their part extremely well, (as to be expected, airforce is as always better).
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Blunc
I don't recall saying the world would fall apart. I merely suggested that if the USA was going to quit doing what everyone is whining about and clean up the crap on it's own continent then people would start whining that the USA is not doing enough to help all the "poor" downtrodden countries.

I don't like that we have to have troops stationed in any other country so the other countries don't self-destruct, I'm all for eliminating the homeless/jobless people in the USA by keeping federal money on the continent.

If the USA was out of all the middle-eastern countries would the taliban and Al Quaida have anything left to complain about?

The Taliban and AQ are only part of the problem.

 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: Blunc
I don't recall saying the world would fall apart. I merely suggested that if the USA was going to quit doing what everyone is whining about and clean up the crap on it's own continent then people would start whining that the USA is not doing enough to help all the "poor" downtrodden countries.

I don't like that we have to have troops stationed in any other country so the other countries don't self-destruct, I'm all for eliminating the homeless/jobless people in the USA by keeping federal money on the continent.

If the USA was out of all the middle-eastern countries would the taliban and Al Quaida have anything left to complain about?

The Taliban and AQ are only part of the problem.

Yup, and troops in foreign countries is hardly a problem and about 0.2% of yearly costs.

The biggest threat today isn't even from the ME, if Russia would attack a NATO country and get hold of it then the strategic advantages in Europe would be great.

May i remind you (blunc) that Russia has aggresively attacked several nations in the last few years?

Besides, Common is in the know, you're lucky if you pass your high school tests, there is a reason why Common is considered a valued asset to the airforce and why you are considered... what?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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0
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Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
palehorse are you in any form of military?
yes.

On another note, since the last 5-10 questions I asked here have gone unanswered by TGB, I'm finished with this thread until he does so.

More LL bullshit in 3... 2... 1...
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Well call it lemon Law bullshit if you will, but the cell phone video is coming out.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...WTUeXkqMVIkFMAaQas0NUE

Dead children, dead children, and dead children with their heads blown off. All in the name of God and the Nato way. I have one damn question, who is going to take ownership for this? Are we going to blame the Taliban when there is no proof that even a single Taliban fighter was killed and its clearly American bombs doing this.

Seriously, are we hiring human beings to do our fighting or is Nato now Lt. Calley, Linde England, and Charles Granger all wrapped up in one. If this were an isolated incident this might be one thing, but its not.

I do not recognize my country if this is what we do on a routine basis. Please tell me that someone will be called home to face a Courts Marshall for this planning in Azizabad.

Meanwhile, maybe you sadists can enjoy the deaths of children, plenty of video for you to enjoy. Have we killed enough civilians yet? Is this the raid JOS so proudly planned? I love Nato intel, it takes no intelligence, just technology, an admixture of total gullibility, a healthy mixture of moral bankruptcy, and a total denial that the cure is sometimes worse than the disease itself. And heavens forbid, that we would ever think there might be a smarter way because a military solutions is always best. And after six years of failure of the military solution, the failure is not in using enough brute force yet.

 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
palehorse are you in any form of military?
yes.

On another note, since the last 5-10 questions I asked here have gone unanswered by TGB, I'm finished with this thread until he does so.

More LL bullshit in 3... 2... 1...

I would've answered if there was any point to it. I'm as angry as any Pakistani that NATO has crossed the border and I think things can now only get worse. If NATO can not control Afghanistan with the 72000 troops they have fighting in the open; how can they have ANY effect in Pakistan? A few more ground attacks and the government will be really pissed. And don't even think about holding a town or village. When the Joints chiefs of staff is threatening a retaliation there might as well be one. What would be NATO's response? If we shot down a couple of your planes or captured a dozen of your soldiers what do you think would happen? I don't even think America can afford an air campaign anymore. You simply don't have the cash to do it. And to do it against us would be far more expensive than Afghanistan or Iraq. And it would also mean that your bases in Afghanistan would be fair game for us. I don't think a response to another attack would be a blunder. It would give the USA something to think about. UN sanctions? I don't think so. Georgia got no sanctions for an offensive. Russia won't let it happen.

And the taliban threat is blown way out of proportion. When at the top of our agenda we have a judicial issue, the economy and general security, Islamabad doesn't think much about the current war. I bet they're more worried about an Indian push in Kashmir. The taliban are a far greater threat to us than to you. However, I'd me more worried about external threats. NATO for the short term. And we will always have a hostile neighbor in Afghanistan.

To say it in short. NATO needs to worry about securing and building Afghanistan before they create new enemies across the border.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Not to step on The Green Bean post, but is it it not time to 3,2,1, ask what the military rank of JOS and palehorse is? As I recall JOS is a mere captain, and palehorse, as far as I know is a mere NCO. Anyone who knows anything about military , have to wonder how these lower level people can speak for a hopefully and presumably smarter Nato Leadership?

But cheer up, if any want to assume palehorse and JOS speak for proven idiots in GWB&co, Rice, Cheney, poodle Tony Blair, I might agree with them.

But its still leaves that 3,2,1 what is your military rank JOS and palehorse question unanswered?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
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Originally posted by: The Green Bean
To say it in short. NATO needs to worry about securing and building Afghanistan before they create new enemies across the border.

That's what you completely fail to understand... our old and existing enemies are across the border in Pakistan -- and they're not you or other peaceful Pakistanis... yet.

The Taliban and AQ, declared enemies of the entire free world, are supported, trained, and based in your fucking country.

Destroy them, or we will. Period.

I hear that we hit 7 to 9 more today... good stuff! :thumbsup:

I just wish the fucking cowards would stop hiding behind their women and children...

/thread
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
To say it in short. NATO needs to worry about securing and building Afghanistan before they create new enemies across the border.

That's what you completely fail to understand... our old and existing enemies are across the border in Pakistan -- and they're not you or other peaceful Pakistanis... yet.

The Taliban and AQ, declared enemies of the entire free world, are supported, trained, and based in your fucking country.

Destroy them, or we will. Period.

I hear that we hit 7 to 9 more today... good stuff! :thumbsup:

I just wish the fucking cowards would stop hiding behind their women and children...

/thread
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
palehorse 3,2,1 we ask you again son, what is your rank, so we can take it to the bank?

But meanwhile, some high ranking Nato generals are going to have to answer some serious questions, I hope they have better answers than you do?
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: palehorse
I hear that we hit 7 to 9 more today... good stuff! :thumbsup:

Scratch that... we killed 25, or more! Fucking-A!

Guard: Al Qaeda chief in Pakistan killed

excerpt:
The guard said the death toll from the attack has climbed to 25 and at least 20 were injured.

The guard said three other al Qaeda members died Tuesday from injuries sustained in Monday's attack -- Abdullah, a Saudi; Abu Hamza, another Saudi and Zain Ul Abu Qasim, an Egyptian.

Don't worry TGB, we'll handle it...
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
The pieces are beginning to fall into place. Good stuff...

US to focus on Pakistani border

Excerpts:
Adm Mike Mullen said he had asked for a "a new, more comprehensive military strategy for the region that covers both sides of that border."
"In my view, these two nations are inextricably linked in a common insurgency that crosses the border between them," he said.

"We can hunt down and kill extremists as they cross over the border from Pakistan... but until we work more closely with the Pakistani government to eliminate the safe havens from which they operate, the enemy will only keep coming."
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
edit:
removing my feelings on that matter 'cause I was asked to clarify, but don't want to get into personal reasons publicly
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,742
18,916
136
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: K1052

I highly doubt Pakistan would have the chance to accomplish that, regardless it would be extremely unwise. Supplying nuclear arms to terrorists would make you directly responsible for any attacks carried out with them and open to in kind retaliation.

We don't even want a war against the Pakistani government. We just need to clean up what you won't or can't deal with.

You are only making things worse.

And we probably have hundreds of dummy silos. There is no way you will be destroying them all in one go.

Given that the US has long experience (50 years) at contemplating just such strike scenarios (a la the Soviet Union) I wouldn't be too confident of what you think can't be done in a limited time frame.

I don't think he knows what a HEMP is, either.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
i feel sorry civilians got killed BUT where is the OP's outrage when the pussy taliban and AQ cut off heads of the same civilians and rape their children? where is the outrage then uh?

yea i though so. go back to you cave and sip your tea and let real men fight a war.

 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Blunc
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Blunc
perhaps we should just do as green bean wants, America should just quit being the "police of the world"....and while the USA is no longer giving the smackdown to tyrants that invade Kuwait anymore then maybe the USA will just quit giving out billions in aid to every country that has their needy little hands out.
no more superior weapons sold to anyone
no more earthquake relief
no more rebuilding countries that attacked the USA first
no more oil dependency...period! you have no power over us if we don't need your stuff!

who will the rest of the world go crying to if/when the USA says "ENOUGH!"?, China...Russia...Venezuela....Switzerland...Iraq...Iran?

I think it would be a real "eye opener" for the rest of the world if the USA just took all their marbles and went home for just one year, no assistance to or from anyone.

Considering there are more than 100 countries and we have piss poor support i don't really think we'd miss you that much since there are a 100 country big airforce ready to get in the air.

There is NOT ONE American who has crossed the border on ground, perhaps you should think about that before you dismiss the troops that actually do something besides driving prisoners and diplomats?

I'm in a pissy mood, no offence palehorse?


I'm confused as to which side you're on here.

(time to release the sharks with laser beams....)

I'm SAS, working in the border area but lately mostly inside of Pakistan, does that answer your question on who's side i am on?

What i am asking for are more boots on the ground, Airforce is doing their part extremely well, (as to be expected, airforce is as always better).

my BULLSHIT meter just pegged.

sorry pal, no SAS troop would ever say info like that in a public forum.