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Obama Makes Another Threat
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The Green Bean
Diamond Member
I could say the same for you.
And as far as "rescuing us" goes. We don't need your help. Go back to your barracks and stop bothering us.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
Inside the disputed areas and even inside the border areas they are getting tired of the ISI's corruption and the Talibans, we are pretty much welcomed anywhere we go by the population.
you COULD ask for help and fix this but then again, you don't even have a government that works right now.
I am waiting for you to blame that on NATO too.
As someone who don't really give a shit, if you're in Pakistan, you need to get out of there.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
So now you are claiming to have visited populated areas of Pakistan? Villages and towns? :roll:
We don't want your "help"
Come again. Are you trying to say my livelihood is under threat from the Taliban or NATO? :/
As far as leaving Pakistan. I'm not going anywhere.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
I am NOT American, son.
There are well over 100 countries who are involved in this, this is not the USA against Pakistan, this is the world against the Taliban, did you hear what happened to Afghanistan when the Taliban refused to hand Al Quaida over? Now what do you expect, with worldwide support, that we will do to your country if you fail to let us do our job?
Why do you think we can walk in and out all day with prisoners and find targets for the airforce to strike?
Not even Russia is on your side, not China, not any EU nation, not Japan, not Syria, not SA, hell, not even Iran.
You're on your own in this and you don't dictate shit, you were given an option we have got no reply because you have no government that CAN reply, well we simply can't wait so we'll do what we need to do and if you fight us on it we will kill them, it's as simple as that.
Lemon law
Lifer
To JOS who says "NATO has close to 100% support inside Afghanistan, this is truth, your made up shit doesn't help anyone, not ANYONE."
Funny, I only know of two people on this forum deployed to Afghanistan who make that statement or advocate the unilateral Nato incursion into the tribal areas of Pakistan. And that is just the tag team of JOS and palehorse.
I have already posted a number of google links on this thread that cast serious doubts on your 100% claim, and you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. But the fact is that Nato is very rapidly losing Afghan support and its zero in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
I do not hate JOS or palehorse, we share the same goals, but sorry, I do not believe your tactics will lead us to victory, and that is why I oppose you. You can call me pathetic all day long, but who is the patriot if you lead us to defeat?
I have just spent two hours searching for the perfect recent google link, and failed to find it, but on the other hand, I found no google links in all that mess to anything but state Nato is losing support. And worse yet, Russia may soon withdraw their support, more a snit over Georgia, but a blow none the less.
Pardon me if I suggest there are smarter ways to win.
Funny, I only know of two people on this forum deployed to Afghanistan who make that statement or advocate the unilateral Nato incursion into the tribal areas of Pakistan. And that is just the tag team of JOS and palehorse.
I have already posted a number of google links on this thread that cast serious doubts on your 100% claim, and you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. But the fact is that Nato is very rapidly losing Afghan support and its zero in the tribal areas of Pakistan.
I do not hate JOS or palehorse, we share the same goals, but sorry, I do not believe your tactics will lead us to victory, and that is why I oppose you. You can call me pathetic all day long, but who is the patriot if you lead us to defeat?
I have just spent two hours searching for the perfect recent google link, and failed to find it, but on the other hand, I found no google links in all that mess to anything but state Nato is losing support. And worse yet, Russia may soon withdraw their support, more a snit over Georgia, but a blow none the less.
Pardon me if I suggest there are smarter ways to win.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
I'm not your son.
You fail to distinguish between the violent taliban and tribal leaders that are getting pissed off by American actions inside our territory. And the world really doesn't care for the taliban. They really don't have anything to do with it so they just said ok fine do as you want. China and Russia could care less for getting rid of the taliban. And there is NO way in hell you will get universal support to wage war against us EVEN if we aided the taliban in some way. Now what you are going to do is just injustice and oppression if you invade us without even proving we are helping them.
Why was the taliban able to walk in and out all day and do all the horrible atrocities you claim they do? Just because the Afghans hate you less doesn't mean they support you.
My side? Are you even remotely suggesting Pakistan is supporting the taliban. We are even according to your leaders a pivotal state against the war on terror.
We have killed more taliban that you have. I don't understand how you can even claim that we aren't doing enough. If we were to really support the taliban things would've been different.
Edit: I honestly think both you and Palehorse sound brainwashed by your military academies.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
Son, i don't give a SHIT about you or those like you, i don't need to, i get my thanks from the people who, unlike you (YET) have been subjected to the Talibans.
I wouldn't need their thanks either, this is my job.
When the last of the taliban is dead, my job is over.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
I'm not telling you anything, let's just forget that i ever said that, you got it the first time anyway. And livelihood isn't what i'd be worried much about, family outside of any for the cities, such things may be more important to you, i dunno, i mean you know pretty well where the Taliban reside.
It will get worse later. but hey, look from the bright side, i won't be involved, i'll be living over in a successful democratic county which does not mix religion with state...
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
The only place the taliban will be residing is in the jails and prisons unless you decide to screw it up by earning sympathy for them. My city has 100+ different faiths and not one square inch do I see affected by the taliban's ideology. Do explain how the taliban has suddenly sprung up inside Pakistan when they are according to you getting their arses whopped in Afghanistan? It's been 60 years and Pakistan is more secular than ever. Nobody even feels threatened that the taliban may come here. The evangelics are as likely to take over London as the taliban Karachi.
Why do you people tend to oversimplify things. Is it because the only people you care for our yourselves? Or is it because you think you are superior?
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
Twat, i've asked you numrous times to stop misrepresenting my words by quoting my entire posts, if you can't get that i suggest you stop quoting me at all.
Because you will not get any decent response from me before you do that and apologise for calling me a murderer of civilians inclusing women and babies.
You're a disgusting piece of shit and that is all you are, you know nothing but keep spewing your bullshit.
palehorse
Lifer
Then I'll pose to you a few simple questions: if that were true, then why have cross-border attacks in Afghanistan, by Pakistani Taliban, increased over the last six years? Why has the Taliban, and their Pakistani support structure, been able to grow exponentially in your country? If you are arresting so many, and fighting so hard, how is it that the enemy keeps growing stronger in your country?
I suspect the answer lies in your government's tendency to fight and finance the enemy simultaneously... but, I can't wait to hear your excuse!
EDIT: Don't you dare tell me that it's due to the handful of effective attacks we've launched on your territory... you're going to have to do better than that. Please see JoS' last post if you're having problems coming up with the right answer....
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
*raises hand*
Could it be because ISI is more corrupt than ever and almost one third of it has their loyalties towards the Taliban rather than the Pakistani People and their Government?
Just a wild guess thrown out there...
palehorse
Lifer
The bottom line is that Pakistan harbors several of the most dangerous and violent terrorist organizations in the world, they are exporting that violent terrorism in all directions, and that is simply unacceptable. We've given Pakistan 6+ years to stop the hemorrhage, but they've completely failed to do so.
We're done waiting.
Game on.
We're done waiting.
Game on.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
Actually, the game has been on for quite some time, it's just that it's in the open now.
We find, we call, there will not be any left when we're done, this is the ONE mission conceringing almost all of the military of 100 countries in some way and the major troop operations are European, Canadian and American, this isn't Iraq, this ones got the support to keep it going for 100 years if need be, there is no mandate to ever stop it until the work is done and the Taliban is no more.
The sooner Pakistan gets that, the sooner they can get out of my way.
Lemon law
Lifer
JOS, it just amazes me how closed your mind is. After six years of losing tactics, and without a single US or British General to support your mantra, you may be a legend in your mind, but you certainly are not winning.
Its just you, yourself , and palehorse. Where does this stuff come from that you speak for all of the Nato coalition, Where is your proof or cited links, how can you speak for the all the Afghan people, and why do many also deployed to Afghanistan not come out and in mass agree with you? Pardon me, where is a single other person posting on P&N and deployed to Afghanistan that agrees with you and palehorse? And even if you can come up with three or four more, that hardly constitutes a majority of 72,000 troops.
Its just you, yourself , and palehorse. Where does this stuff come from that you speak for all of the Nato coalition, Where is your proof or cited links, how can you speak for the all the Afghan people, and why do many also deployed to Afghanistan not come out and in mass agree with you? Pardon me, where is a single other person posting on P&N and deployed to Afghanistan that agrees with you and palehorse? And even if you can come up with three or four more, that hardly constitutes a majority of 72,000 troops.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
Well, i'd tell you the most obvious thing, but i doubt you have the intelligence to understand it since you STILL cannot quote.
You're a stupid wise and beautiful woman, that is all you'll ever be, and yes, mods, i said wise and beautiful woman, ban me for life and get me away from this fucking wise and beautiful woman.
I'm done here.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
I fucking love you man, the first to have an argument, it took some time to get it out of the way... and now you are here.... standing up for me.
*in attention* i salute you.
Please explain why this past summer, you were panicking that the Taliban might takeover/control/overrun a Pakistani city. The Taliban have influence in the tribal areas where the Pakistani military have chosen not not patrol.
The Taliban have a greater influence within your country and the ISI than you want to admit or face up to. soonthere will be two Pakistans, the tribal areas that may be joined at the hip to the Taliban and Aq and the population centers where the civilized people bury their heads in the sand and blame everyone else for their problems.
If Pakistan becomes unstable, maybe India can straighten out the mess, because the Pakistan people can not.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
It was tabloid news. One that sells papers. It turned out to be that.
Actually the US media is painting a twisted portrait of Pakistan just like they did against Iraq and are doing against Iran. Pakistan is nothing like it has been described so many times. If you want to believe your biased lying media then fine. If you want to believe posters that make ludicrous claims then fine. But the truth is that things can hardly ever be seen in black and white. All of you need to study Pakistan and its politics before you make ridiculous claims against it.
And I don't know why India keeps coming up. India has so many problems of its own. They aren't in the media because the US is full of shit and wages propaganda wars against states like us. Did you read about the recent massacres against muslims by the Indian army in Kashmir? Or are all muslims suddenly evil and the Indian army is divine? What about the massacres in Gujrat? So please don't expose your stupidity by bringing India that is on the other side of our borders in this argument.
The Green Bean
Diamond Member
You, yourself were the one that was parniod over the situation - it may have been tabloid news, but it concerned you enough to post about it.
Your own media has reported that your own government has admitted to assisting the Taliban.
Some of your posts state the Taliban are not evil; then others you state how bad the Taliban and AQ are.
You state that AQ is the enemy; seemly ignoring that fact that AQ was sheltered by the Taliban and both are a damaging influence in your tribal areas.
Then you come back later and state how much damage the Taliban have done to Pakistan and how Pakistan has arrested so many of those people.
I am not stating that you can not get your facts straight; but if you(who is educated) can not maintain consistency over a 6-12 month period in what you state/claim/feel; what should the world believe about Pakistan.
Pakistan has two automatic stikes against it in that they 1) allowed nuke research to be sold to the highest bidder and 2) They have provided assistance to AQ via the ISI.
Both of the above have been admitted to and documented by your government.
The plus item on the leger is that they have allowed the supply routes through.
Much of the price that Pakistan has paid is instability because they have attempted to play both sides; the islamic militants and the western aid.
palehorse
Lifer
Unstable states that export violent terrorism?
If so, you're right... however, it's not usually called "propaganda" when it's the truth.
your "checkpoints" are a joke. Osama Bin Laden himself could cross in plain sight for a few measly dollars!
Oh, and so much for the route closing being your first hard-handed response to NATO, eh? LOL! :laugh:
too damn funny...
Lemon law
Lifer
Palehorse, you may well be right that Pakistani checkpoints being a joke, but perhaps your delusion is that Pakistan does not share all US priorities because it has different priorities of its own. What you are by implication asserting is that its all Nato's way or the highway, black or white, with no shades of gray in between. And if you demand perfect co operation between countries, you will never find it on the face of this earth. But in terms of a reliable partner in the war on terror, Pakistan has arrested more Al-Quida agents than the rest of the world combined, leaving Nato a far distant second or thirds. In my mind, that makes Pakistan a pretty good partner to have.
But if you complain about imperfect Pakistani checkpoints, you do have the option to set up perfect Nato ones on your side of the border, but whatver you do do not rely on Afghan run checkpoints, because the entire Afghan government is sadly and almost totally corrupt. And instead of doing the things you can do, namely help reduce the corruption in the Afghan government, and help stamp out the opium trade in Afghanistan, you ask some other governments to do things not in their national interests.
Your job is limited to fixing Afghanistan, Afghanistan, and Afghanistan. And there is one hell of a lot of positive things you could be doing in Afghanistan that you are simply not doing.
Leaving your complaints about Pakistan more of an excuse than anything else.
And news flash to you, you are not the guru of the world, and you cannot expect everyone to fall at your feet and await your orders.
But if you complain about imperfect Pakistani checkpoints, you do have the option to set up perfect Nato ones on your side of the border, but whatver you do do not rely on Afghan run checkpoints, because the entire Afghan government is sadly and almost totally corrupt. And instead of doing the things you can do, namely help reduce the corruption in the Afghan government, and help stamp out the opium trade in Afghanistan, you ask some other governments to do things not in their national interests.
Your job is limited to fixing Afghanistan, Afghanistan, and Afghanistan. And there is one hell of a lot of positive things you could be doing in Afghanistan that you are simply not doing.
Leaving your complaints about Pakistan more of an excuse than anything else.
And news flash to you, you are not the guru of the world, and you cannot expect everyone to fall at your feet and await your orders.
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