Obama is flunking economics

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
SAN DIEGO, California (CNN) -- Welcome to March Madness on the Potomac.

Many Americans are so emotionally invested in the Obama presidency that they consider it too historic to fail.

They won't tolerate any criticism of the president or his administration, finding it easier to simply attack critics. And whatever goes wrong that they can't defend or deflect, they just blame on George W. Bush.

But to many of the rest of us, it's clear that President Obama is flunking economics. He is trying to do too much at once, and so he is not doing any of it well. He vows to cut the federal deficit while proposing an avalanche of new spending that will -- says the Congressional Budget Office -- increase it by as much as $9.3 trillion over the next decade.

Here's the really bad news, though. No matter what else goes awry, Obama's strong suits are supposed to be communications and marketing. Yet, this week we learned that this isn't the case when he has to communicate and market his message on economics.

It doesn't help matters much that Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner seems too small for his chair. When he needs to inspire confidence, Geithner does the opposite. Whenever he speaks and comes up short on specifics, the Dow plummets. And when that happens, the Obama supporters don't care and insist that Wall Street is part of the problem and thus can't recognize the solution.

This week, after learning of the Treasury Department's plan to help banks unload so-called toxic assets, the market bounced back a bit. And now the Obama supporters are singing a different tune.

But here's the big question: When Wall Street smiles on a government bailout, is it a good or bad thing for average Americans? It depends on how much is being given away and who has to pay the bill.

This much is indisputable: The administration's economic plan is so sweeping, and our financial situation so precarious, that the administration needs nothing less than a master salesman for its economic agenda. Clearly, Geithner isn't up to the job. The sooner he steps aside, the better it will be for the administration.

According to the pundits, Obama is supposed to pick up the slack and seal the deals that Geithner can't seem to close. However, anyone who tuned into this week's press conference has to wonder whether the president hasn't lost his touch. The popular narrative from conservatives -- that Obama stumbles when he is off the teleprompter -- is becoming more believable.

When asked by a reporter about whether his budget would blow up the deficit and stick future generations with the bill, Obama got defensive and turned his answer into a slam against Republicans and then obfuscated his way through the rest of the question.

When CNN's Ed Henry asked the president why it took him so long to publicly condemn the more than $150 million in AIG bonuses, as opposed to New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo who turned the issue into a national outrage, Obama appeared to take a swipe at Cuomo, a fellow Democrat, by saying: "I like to know what I'm talking about before I speak."

Or maybe it's just that Obama realized that his administration wasn't guilt-free in the AIG debacle. There are many unanswered questions. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Connecticut, told CNN last week that someone at the Treasury Department told him to put in the language in the bailout bill allowing for executive bonuses.

If he's telling the truth (and really who knows, given that CNN caught Dodd being untruthful on the subject earlier) we need to know who in the Obama administration ordered the loophole. And that person needs to be removed.

This week's news conference wasn't exactly Obama's finest hour. Still, it wasn't as bad as making a mocking reference to the Special Olympics on "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno" or joking about the recession on CBS' "60 Minutes."

How is it possible that someone who was so likeable and so inspiring while running for president could, day by day, be so unlikable and so uninspiring as president?

It's become more common for people to say that they want President Obama to FAIL. I don't want him to fail. I want him to succeed. I just don't see how we get there from here.

Source



WTF? CNN allowing thoughtful commentaries that make sense??? I don't really know who Navarrette is, but I'm liking him!

Soon, America will realize it only elected a junior senator with no real executive experience. Obama's rubber boat is getting holes poked in it by the day. And I hope the media is realizing more and more that elevating an idiot to the level of Messiah simply because of the color of his skin is no way to create a President. Perhaps during good times. But give us another 4-8 years with an idiot in times like these, bye bye USA.

We are already bankrupt. This nation is living on borrowed time. Pay off the federal debt...or else.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
WTF? CNN allowing thoughtful commentaries that make sense??? I don't really know who Navarrette is, but I'm liking him!

He's a right-wing commentator at a city newspaper, and his article made little sense. CNN runs plewty of right-wing junk, despite your surprise.

Soon, America will realize it only elected a junior senator with no real executive experience.

More of this crap from you? Give it a rest. I's diet popcorn, if not the hot air that popped it.

Obama's rubber boat is getting holes poked in it by the day. And I hope the media is realizing more and more that elevating an idiot to the level of Messiah simply because of the color of his skin is no way to create a President.

But it does explain why the media 'elevated' Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton the same way, as you play the race card in one of the most asinine and clumsy ways I've seen in years.

Obama's an idiot? You and the four other people who think that must get lonely.

Perhaps during good times. But give us another 4-8 years with an idiot in times like these, bye bye USA.

Not a bad comment - for 2001.

We are already bankrupt. This nation is living on borrowed time. Pay off the federal debt...or else.

Uh, ya, the debt your boys made - and first we generate the wealth with which to do it.

Why don't you just go watch sports or something and leave the economy to the non-idiots.

You and your guys had your shot, and you blew it again and again.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
81
GWB was a Republican in name only...and no, I never considered him to be one of "my" guys...I only considered him to be better than the Gore/Kerry alternatives.
 

Medellon

Senior member
Feb 13, 2000
812
2
81
Obama a brillant man? If I have heard that once I've heard it a thousand times. What makes him brilliant, the fact that he can read and present a prepared speech well? Honestly I just don't see his brilliance.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Navarette is a right winger according to left wingers, he is a left winger according to right wingers.

He is on the editorial board of the San Diego Union-Tribune. Are editorial boards bastions of conservatism?

This guy in the past lambasted the GOP and Bush. Now he lambasts Obama and Dems. Sounds to me like he follows current trends and attacks from the sidelines.

His big thing is immigration from what I have read of him.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Medellon
Obama a brillant man? If I have heard that once I've heard it a thousand times. What makes him brilliant, the fact that he can read and present a prepared speech well? Honestly I just don't see his brilliance.

That says more about you than it does about Obama. As someone who has not been that big an Obama fan during the campaign, the 'idiot' comments are still, well, idiotic.

Though he's grown on me a lot as President now.

You don't get to be the editor of the Harvard Law Review for no reason. His policy statements have, IMO, been outstanding on these complex issues. Idiot, indeed.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Navarette is a right winger according to left wingers, he is a left winger according to right wingers.

This guy in the past lambasted the GOP and Bush. Now he lambasts Obama and Dems. Sounds to me like he follows current trends and attacks from the sidelines.

His big thing is immigration from what I have read of him.

From the little I've seen of him, he doesn't appear far right, and some right-wingers have criticized him for being an 'Arlen Specter type' right-winger. But he's on the right, IMO.

My criticism of him here isn't for that, it's for not having anything decent to say on the issue he wrote on.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Genx87
Navarette is a right winger according to left wingers, he is a left winger according to right wingers.

This guy in the past lambasted the GOP and Bush. Now he lambasts Obama and Dems. Sounds to me like he follows current trends and attacks from the sidelines.

His big thing is immigration from what I have read of him.

From the little I've seen of him, he doesn't appear far right, and some right-wingers have criticized him for being an 'Arlen Specter type' right-winger. But he's on the right, IMO.

My criticism of him here isn't for that, it's for not having anything decent to say on the issue he wrote on.

What are you expecting him to write anyways? A detailed plan on how he would approach the situation? No, the point of his commentary is to point out the many flaws of Obama and if you do point them out him or his supporters, you are attacked in force.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
GWB was a Republican in name only...and no, I never considered him to be one of "my" guys...I only considered him to be better than the Gore/Kerry alternatives.

It wasn't just him, hence my use of the plural, it was a Republican Congress, too.

Did you support or vote for Bush in 2000 and/or 2004? If so, take some responsibility.

I predicted in 2001 that Bush would be a huge screwup and Republicans would try to say 'he's not a real conservative' after they had *incredibly enthusiastically* cheered him.

He was the 'dream candidate'. I said they were being duped, and they didn't listen - and you obviously have not learned any lesson from the experience, ready for the next duping.

The policy you guys advocate don't work - and you keep siding agianst Democrats to support Republicans who don't even follow th epoliices you want much of the time.

You think liberals get a little sick of the "vote for A, oops, A is bad, vote for B, oops B is bad, vote for C" song and dance? Maybe you are missing something about their agenda?

In the meantime, you are trying to block the good politicians from getting elected, in our view. Oops, C is bad, you say?

I understand the 'lesser of two evils' situation, but at some point you have to take some responsibilty when you support someone.

For you to say the danger of 8 bad years is OBAMA andnot Bush is perverse, deluded.

 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
What are you expecting him to write anyways? A detailed plan on how he would approach the situation? No, the point of his commentary is to point out the many flaws of Obama and if you do point them out him or his supporters, you are attacked in force.

Some good points about the flaws of Obama would be a good start.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Yet another thread about GOP screaming "WE'RE GOING TO BE BANKRUPT" alarmist bullsht when the only way out of this recession is to inject more money into it. Here's usually how this process works, test it out in other partisan threads today:

a) Obama is critisized for proposing too much money.
b) Conservatives come in and say he's going to bankrupt us and our kids.
c) Conservatives have no better solution to offer than Obama's big spending plan.
d) Rinse and repeat until the recession is over.

PS: I'm a fiscal conservative and have no problem with injecting the economy with more money to get us out of this flaming financial mess.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Genx87
Navarette is a right winger according to left wingers, he is a left winger according to right wingers.

This guy in the past lambasted the GOP and Bush. Now he lambasts Obama and Dems. Sounds to me like he follows current trends and attacks from the sidelines.

His big thing is immigration from what I have read of him.

From the little I've seen of him, he doesn't appear far right, and some right-wingers have criticized him for being an 'Arlen Specter type' right-winger. But he's on the right, IMO.

My criticism of him here isn't for that, it's for not having anything decent to say on the issue he wrote on.

What are you expecting him to write anyways? A detailed plan on how he would approach the situation? No, the point of his commentary is to point out the many flaws of Obama and if you do point them out him or his supporters, you are attacked in force.

You might as well stop trying to have a reasonable discussion with an apologist.
 

Medellon

Senior member
Feb 13, 2000
812
2
81
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Medellon
Obama a brillant man? If I have heard that once I've heard it a thousand times. What makes him brilliant, the fact that he can read and present a prepared speech well? Honestly I just don't see his brilliance.

That says more about you than it does about Obama. As someone who has not been that big an Obama fan during the campaign, the 'idiot' comments are still, well, idiotic.

Though he's grown on me a lot as President now.

You don't get to be the editor of the Harvard Law Review for no reason. His policy statements have, IMO, been outstanding on these complex issues. Idiot, indeed.

What a joke! You really didn't care for Obama during his campaign when he was making all his "wonderful" hope and change speeches and being treated as if he were the second coming of Christ. Now that he has been in office his approval ratings have steadily dropped and really has no solid plan of what to do, he grows on you?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Medellon
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Medellon
Obama a brillant man? If I have heard that once I've heard it a thousand times. What makes him brilliant, the fact that he can read and present a prepared speech well? Honestly I just don't see his brilliance.

That says more about you than it does about Obama. As someone who has not been that big an Obama fan during the campaign, the 'idiot' comments are still, well, idiotic.

Though he's grown on me a lot as President now.

You don't get to be the editor of the Harvard Law Review for no reason. His policy statements have, IMO, been outstanding on these complex issues. Idiot, indeed.

What a joke!

Your claim that there's something wrong with my opinion not following the majority? Yes, that is a joke.

You really didn't care for Obama during his campaign when he was making all his "wonderful" hope and change speeches and being treated as if he were the second coming of Christ. Now that he has been in office his approval ratings have steadily dropped and really has no solid plan of what to do, he grows on you?

For the record, you are misrepresenting what i said. I supported Obama once he was the nominee, period. He was not my first choice for the nomination.

With some reservations I've expressed previously, as president, I'm overall very pleased with him.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yet another thread about GOP screaming "WE'RE GOING TO BE BANKRUPT" alarmist bullsht when the only way out of this recession is to inject more money into it. Here's usually how this process works, test it out in other partisan threads today:

a) Obama is critisized for proposing too much money.
b) Conservatives come in and say he's going to bankrupt us and our kids.
c) Conservatives have no better solution to offer than Obama's big spending plan.
d) Rinse and repeat until the recession is over.

PS: I'm a fiscal conservative and have no problem with injecting the economy with more money to get us out of this flaming financial mess.

The Republicans just unveiled their own budget.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: shinerburke
You might as well stop trying to have a reasonable discussion with an apologist.

You really aren't in a position to say anything about reasonable conversation.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
WTF? CNN allowing thoughtful commentaries that make sense??? I don't really know who Navarrette is, but I'm liking him!

Soon, America will realize it only elected a junior senator with no real executive experience. Obama's rubber boat is getting holes poked in it by the day. And I hope the media is realizing more and more that elevating an idiot to the level of Messiah simply because of the color of his skin is no way to create a President. Perhaps during good times. But give us another 4-8 years with an idiot in times like these, bye bye USA.

We are already bankrupt. This nation is living on borrowed time. Pay off the federal debt...or else.
How do we rein in this administration and Congress? I don't think we are going to be able to hold on through his term if they keep blowing through 'magic' money at this dizzying pace. The rest of the world is aghast at what's going on in this country. The level of irresponsibility and incompetence would be laughable to us as citizens of this country if it wasn't happening to us right now, in real time.

I understand fully how he got elected. He promised everyone ice cream. Everybody likes ice cream. He never told us how he was going to pay for it though. A junior Senator from the arguably most corrupt political system in the nation. One whose voting record was dominated by voting "Present". One who stumbles and stammers when not in front of a teleprompter and who thinks people like Geithner are the right person for the job!

One who takes the low road consistently. It's too damned hard to solve these problems, so throwing money at them is a nice stop-gap measure. We'll bankrupt the nation, throw generations into poverty, but who gives a shit because we're getting ours. We'll just move on and watch our libraries be built. All wrapped up in a persona of self-righteousness because you know, we're not Republicans!

It's become painfully obvious to every one in this nation that spending beyond our means is a recipe for disaster. It's obvious to everyone but the people running the country! It's bad for you, but wonderful for us. My 14 year old grandson understands that he can't spend what he doesn't have. Puts him head and shoulders above Washington as a whole.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yet another thread about GOP screaming "WE'RE GOING TO BE BANKRUPT" alarmist bullsht when the only way out of this recession is to inject more money into it. Here's usually how this process works, test it out in other partisan threads today:

a) Obama is critisized for proposing too much money.
b) Conservatives come in and say he's going to bankrupt us and our kids.
c) Conservatives have no better solution to offer than Obama's big spending plan.
d) Rinse and repeat until the recession is over.

PS: I'm a fiscal conservative and have no problem with injecting the economy with more money to get us out of this flaming financial mess.

The Republicans just unveiled their own budget.

Link please?

 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yet another thread about GOP screaming "WE'RE GOING TO BE BANKRUPT" alarmist bullsht when the only way out of this recession is to inject more money into it. Here's usually how this process works, test it out in other partisan threads today:

a) Obama is critisized for proposing too much money.
b) Conservatives come in and say he's going to bankrupt us and our kids.
c) Conservatives have no better solution to offer than Obama's big spending plan.
d) Rinse and repeat until the recession is over.

PS: I'm a fiscal conservative and have no problem with injecting the economy with more money to get us out of this flaming financial mess.

The Republicans just unveiled their own budget.

Link please?

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/b...road-to-recovery-final
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I'm amazed and appalled at how challenged some posters here are.

Here we go, point by point.

Originally posted by: boomerang
How do we rein in this administration and Congress? I don't think we are going to be able to hold on through his term if they keep blowing through 'magic' money at this dizzying pace.

From the rest of your post, which doesn't once say a word about the Bush administration as having any blame for any of this, I assme you did not 'rein them in' much.

Did you vote for Bush in 2000 or 2004? (I didn't get an answer to that from GTaudiophile).

They aren't going to keep blowing through cash like this. As Obama said, the last thing he wanted to do was to have to start his administration with all this spending.

Oh by the way, the spending he's doing to save the economy is crippling his own spending prioritues in many areas. There will be more, but the pace won't continue as it is.

The economists will explain to you, if you bother to see what they say, why the government is the only source for the spending now needed to stimulate the economy.

The rest of the world is aghast at what's going on in this country. The level of irresponsibility and incompetence would be laughable to us as citizens of this country if it wasn't happening to us right now, in real time.

It's just boggling how you can say that and not mean it about the Bush administration, not the Obama administration. It's incredibly delusional.

And now, for your parade of right-wing talking points:

I understand fully how he got elected. He promised everyone ice cream. Everybody likes ice cream. He never told us how he was going to pay for it though.[/quote]

'Democrats win by making irresponsible promises' talking point - check. You guys even use the same ice cream cliche evey time. Can't it be pir or cake once in a while?

A junior Senator from the arguably most corrupt political system in the nation.

Two birds with one stone - junior senator talking point, check. Chicago corruption (not that you prove Obama is corrupt) talking point - check.

One whose voting record was dominated by voting "Present".
]

'opted present' talking point - check. Look you did not win the election with that talking point - time to drop it.

One who stumbles and stammers when not in front of a teleprompter and who thinks people like Geithner are the right person for the job!

The teleprompter talking point - check. You really hit almost all of them. At least you hit one legitimate controversy - not any solid point, but at least arguable - Geithner.

One who takes the low road consistently.

You're perverse, too. He constantly takes the high road, unlike the last guy, your guy I presume.

It's too damned hard to solve these problems, so throwing money at them is a nice stop-gap measure. We'll bankrupt the nation, throw generations into poverty, but who gives a shit because we're getting ours. We'll just move on and watch our libraries be built. All wrapped up in a persona of self-righteousness because you know, we're not Republicans!

You're getting froth on the keyboard now - spouting about their libraries? There's not enogh there to say anything about, just foam.

It's become painfully obvious to every one in this nation that spending beyond our means is a recipe for disaster. It's obvious to everyone but the people running the country!

'Reagan proved deficits don't matter," Dick Cheney told Paul O'Neill during a Cabinet meeting. "We won the (2002) midterms. This is our due."

I - and liberal economists - are very concerned about the deficit. What they're saiying is that regrettably massive government spending is needed to get the economy fixed.

Had my preference been followed - the suprplus-creating Clinton administration followed by a Gore administration - we could have perhaps not in nearly as bad a situation (there were still big problems, though.) But the economy is in crisis, and the extremely bad deficit situation may be the lesser of evils from the economy crashing much worse than it has.

It's bad for you, but wonderful for us. My 14 year old grandson understands that he can't spend what he doesn't have. Puts him head and shoulders above Washington as a whole.

It's just that sort of folksy, naive commentary that has brought us the corrupt politicians who can sucker people like that so easily in the first place.

You think the politicians who have done what they did are analogous to the 14 year old? Hardly. They're agents of corruption who can obviously fool you pretty easily.

You just go on saying they spend too much - and voting for the R's who do.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
They won't tolerate any criticism of the president or his administration, finding it easier to simply attack critics. And whatever goes wrong that they can't defend or deflect, they just blame on George W. Bush.

OK, so the author of this article has been reading a lot of P&N, for what he says is truth. I have ridiculed Bush for years now, but when people bring him up constantly in these topics today I die a little inside.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yet another thread about GOP screaming "WE'RE GOING TO BE BANKRUPT" alarmist bullsht when the only way out of this recession is to inject more money into it. Here's usually how this process works, test it out in other partisan threads today:

a) Obama is critisized for proposing too much money.
b) Conservatives come in and say he's going to bankrupt us and our kids.
c) Conservatives have no better solution to offer than Obama's big spending plan.
d) Rinse and repeat until the recession is over.

PS: I'm a fiscal conservative and have no problem with injecting the economy with more money to get us out of this flaming financial mess.

The Republicans just unveiled their own budget.

Link please?

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/b...road-to-recovery-final

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no financial figures attached to their "solution". Easy to bash the Democratic plan when you're too scared to attach numbers to your solution. GOP, tell us how much your solution will cost? Give us figures, not BS propaganda.

All in all, this belies the point that more spending is needed to get out of this recession. All this alarmist bankruptcy BS is the GOP's only argument and yet they move to the stance that "Ok, it may not bankrupt us, but our spending solution will cost less!". Allow me to laugh.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yet another thread about GOP screaming "WE'RE GOING TO BE BANKRUPT" alarmist bullsht when the only way out of this recession is to inject more money into it. Here's usually how this process works, test it out in other partisan threads today:

a) Obama is critisized for proposing too much money.
b) Conservatives come in and say he's going to bankrupt us and our kids.
c) Conservatives have no better solution to offer than Obama's big spending plan.
d) Rinse and repeat until the recession is over.

PS: I'm a fiscal conservative and have no problem with injecting the economy with more money to get us out of this flaming financial mess.

The Republicans just unveiled their own budget.

Link please?

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/b...road-to-recovery-final

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no financial figures attached to their "solution". Easy to bash the Democratic plan when you're too scared to attach numbers to your solution. GOP, tell us how much your solution will cost? Give us figures, not BS propaganda.

All in all, this belies the point that more spending is needed to get out of this recession. All this alarmist bankruptcy BS is the GOP's only argument and yet they move to the stance that "Ok, it may not bankrupt us, but our spending solution will cost less!". Allow me to laugh.

Why do people assume more spending by govt is the only way out of a recession?