When discussing blame for the current economic crisis, it's quite appropriate to mention Bush and the Republican Congress - and some Democrats, too.
When discussing blame for the current economic crisis, it's quite appropriate to mention Bush and the Republican Congress - and some Democrats, too.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
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Then why are your GOP buddies proposing it as well? Spending will get us out of this (as well as cleaning up the subprime mess). There's no other way out of it, history has proven this is the best way to right the recession ship. In the least, it will shorten the recession which is a good thing. Please don't tell me you subscribe to doomsayer BS like hyperinflation and/or the dollar being worthless.
Because they are dumbasses as proved the last 6-8 years?!?!?!?!?!?!
Hyperinflation no, but we will see inflation when the economy comes around. The govt cant print\borrow this much without it showing up as inflation somewhere down the line. And imo that is one of the hidden crimes in all of this. The economy will eventually right itself and we set ourselves up for eroding the middle and lower class's buying power with inflation.
It's a blueprint. They don't have entire executive departments at their disposal. You want them to put hundreds, if not thousands of man-hours into a document that's going to be ignored?
Why do lefties criticize Reagans and Bush's first term deficits created in recessions they inherited?
I don't automatically fall back on it. I adopt it with trepidation, after considering my review of the history of the Great Depression and the lessons learned, the debate over Keynesian economics and what the data showed, after listening to what economists I think well of today have to say with their far larger expertise, and other factors, and I recognize the huge problems with the deficit. Then I accept the argument.
I'm still not convinced that there aren't better plans - that the financial industry doesn't have too many hooks in Washington to get a worse planned passed.
But even the better plans involve government spending.
One simple explanation I've heard that might help a little:
There are only three types of customers. Consumers, businesses, and govenment. When consumers and businesses drastically cut spending, there's only one source available.
It seems to me Obama's on the right track, when he says he hates this high spending to deal with this crisis - as long as his long term goals are as he says, deficit reduction.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
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Craig: Good post, pretty much believe the same thing.
GenX: As a fiscal conservative, I do think that the excessive spending sucks. The bailout sucks. It really sucks. But at the same time, I see many of my friends, family, and family's friends either unemployed or losing their jobs. I'd rather suck it up and accept that we will have to spend a lot more to create more jobs, because like Craig said, businesses and consumers aren't currently doing it. It's a lot better than seeing the ones I love having to suffer because there aren't any jobs.
I read the commentary and I watched Obama's speech. This guy is totally full of shit. He is welcome to his opinion but it does not correspond to what was actually said. He also defended Palin from irrational Democratic attack. Another blind asshole spewing shit.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
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I'm not ignoring that. Just saying that it's easy to critisize and lambaste the current spending proposal figures but not provide any of your own. Anyone can do that.
I hope the GOP blueprint turns into a viable solution, but right now it's just a blueprint so nobody is going to pay much attention to it until it's completely finished and figures are produced.
What jobs are your friends without jobs going to get from these deficits and stimulus package? And what did they do before being laid off?
sounded pretty ignorant and childish to me.
seeing as 99% of people don't know shit about economics, i'm fine with this.
this is probably a good thing.
sign #1 of ods, 'teleprompter'
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
- 143
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Most are blue collar, a few white collar. Friend's mom worked in a housing manufacturing plant, other worked for an IT Gov contracting firm (small company), other buddy worked for Home Depot. Brother worked in a metal factory.
Hopefully they can get jobs in areas such as infrastructure improvement like my brother (road crew). Maybe something in the green sector, I know a lot of colleges are offering "green" degrees now for that sector.
Thanks. I'll expand a little on the caution I mentioned, when I say I looked at the Grat Depression for lessons, since thos elessons show reason for caution.
The first is how some of the wealthiest people or banks put vast sums into the credit market trying to stimulate the economy - and merely delayed the big crash.
The second is how wrong the leading spokespeople were as they said how things were fine.
In fact, I'd made a list of some of the quotes last summer (wtih a few recent ones):
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
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That statement is somewhat ridiculous. It is the failed policy and failed ideology of socialism that will bring us "bye bye USA". It only matters that we are on this road, not the person driving us there. It could be the greatest executive on the planet, we'd still be screwed.
Uhmmm, this guy is a commentator at my local paper. Oh and yes, the San Diego U-T's editorial board is very much a bastion of conservatism. Described by wiki as 'reliably conservative'.
He is not only a right winger, he is a HARD right winger. His commentary is not only shitty, but it is downright incoherent a lot of the time. In the span of one article once he talked about how the position of Commerce Secretary back in the day was something that Republicans were slammed for offering to minorities as being a token gesture, and how unfair it was to the poor Republicans. Then in the same article he slammed Obama for appointing Richardson to the post, talking about how token a gesture it was. Oops!
Why do you think that a budget should have to have NUMBERS in it or something?!?
Basically they complained about Obama's spending and then offered up a budget proposal that said "hurr hurr, we should cut taxes". If that counts as a budget to someone, their standard is pathetic.
Then again it's Winnar. While he seems to be behaving a bit better after being threatened with banning, it's still Winnar.
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
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How's the air up there? Your opinion of yourself is that you're a high-brow deep thinker. If it works for you I guess you should run with it. Keeping that in mind, why do you even bother to respond to my post? It just drags you down to the level of the common folk.
The only time I get upset at disparaging remarks is when I have respect for the individual that made them. You don't have that respect. For a high-brow on the 'correct' side of this issue, all I see in the above post is juvenile name calling. You're wasting your time with a reply like this.
Of course I do understand that this is probably just the reaction of a cornered Obamabot. You find my post meaningless, but when you combine it with the rest of the anti-Obama posts, well, I understand that it can be overwhelming.
Some deep breathing in a paper bag will bring those feelings under control.
[/quote]
Fingolfin269
Lifer
- Feb 28, 2003
- 17,948
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jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
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Gotcha, op-ed pieces you agree with are 'thoughtful commentaries' and op-eds you disagree with make no sense. You then go on to call one of the brightest, most intellectual presidents we've had an "idiot." Well done.
If Einstein tried to explain relativity to you you'd probably walk away muttering that he was some crazy dude with out of control hair. You can't see that Obama's exceptionally bright? Go read his books, or skim them even. The reason you keep hearing how bright he is is because people who know (love him or hate him) him cite that as a defining characteristic. Only a partisan could attack Obama on his intellectual credentials with a straight face.
[/quote]Really? Tell me 5 things he has done that you are pleased with. Hell, tell me 3.[/quote]
Craig being the liberal that he is I can do that easily.
1. Lifted a ban on giving federal money to international groups that perform abortions or provide abortion information.
2. Set a deadline for the closing of Guantanimo.
3. Lifted the ban on stem cell research.
This is what Paul Krugman said last time the US was in a recession:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02...gs-debt-and-taxes.html
The responsible thing, for both the couple and the federal government, is not to give up on planning for the future; it is to make alternative investments. And if this means that the Social Security and Medicare trust funds must buy stocks and bonds from the private sector, so be it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01...ion/the-quiet-man.html
Last month, for example, Karl Rove explained that the tax cut, although originally proposed amid an economic boom, was designed to cope with the current recession. ''All the signs were there in the second, if not the second, the third quarter of 2000,'' Mr. Rove said. When a questioner gently pointed out that Mr. Bush had laid out his tax plan way back in 1999, Mr. Rove brushed him aside.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07...-banana-republics.html
The latest antics of the White House Office of Management and Budget have even the most hardened cynics shaking their heads. It's not just that projections for fiscal 2002 have gone from a $150 billion surplus to a $165 billion deficit in the space of a few months; it's not just that the O.M.B. projects a much smaller deficit next year, when everyone else -- including the Republican staff of the Senate Budget Committee -- says the deficit will increase. It's also the fact that O.M.B officials simply lie about what their own report says.
Oh, and this gem, about the deficit, in 2003:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01...ion/off-the-wagon.html
There's a reason Mr. Hubbard said what he did in his textbook. When the government sells bonds it competes with private borrowers. By the usual rules of economics, this competition should, other things equal, drive interest rates higher and investment lower.
It's O.K. to run a deficit during a recession, as long as the deficit is clearly temporary.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02...gs-debt-and-taxes.html
The responsible thing, for both the couple and the federal government, is not to give up on planning for the future; it is to make alternative investments. And if this means that the Social Security and Medicare trust funds must buy stocks and bonds from the private sector, so be it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01...ion/the-quiet-man.html
Last month, for example, Karl Rove explained that the tax cut, although originally proposed amid an economic boom, was designed to cope with the current recession. ''All the signs were there in the second, if not the second, the third quarter of 2000,'' Mr. Rove said. When a questioner gently pointed out that Mr. Bush had laid out his tax plan way back in 1999, Mr. Rove brushed him aside.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07...-banana-republics.html
The latest antics of the White House Office of Management and Budget have even the most hardened cynics shaking their heads. It's not just that projections for fiscal 2002 have gone from a $150 billion surplus to a $165 billion deficit in the space of a few months; it's not just that the O.M.B. projects a much smaller deficit next year, when everyone else -- including the Republican staff of the Senate Budget Committee -- says the deficit will increase. It's also the fact that O.M.B officials simply lie about what their own report says.
Oh, and this gem, about the deficit, in 2003:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01...ion/off-the-wagon.html
There's a reason Mr. Hubbard said what he did in his textbook. When the government sells bonds it competes with private borrowers. By the usual rules of economics, this competition should, other things equal, drive interest rates higher and investment lower.
It's O.K. to run a deficit during a recession, as long as the deficit is clearly temporary.
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