Obama had Trumps phone tapped?

[alien42]

Are you suggesting Russia leaked it?

Fern

can you provide a copy of this supposedly leaked conversation you keep talking about?

i'm not sure it actually exists.

 

[alien42]

And yet the FBI had vetted him and cleared him.

Fern

when exactly was this? and once again, please provide some proof for your statements.

 

[fskimospy]

And yet the FBI had vetted him and cleared him.

Fern

Where are you getting your information that the FBI vetted him?

 

[cytg111]

Are you suggesting Russia leaked it?

Fern

I am suggesting its a possibility.

 

[Fern]

can you provide a copy of this supposedly leaked conversation you keep talking about?

i'm not sure it actually exists.

You can't be serious?

Jeebus man, discussions of the leak of Flynn's call is all over the news.

Inform yourself: http://www.latimes.com/politics/was...concern-leaks-about-1490023461-htmlstory.html

And as to a copy, I've been patiently waiting to see a transcript. There have been a lot of accusation against Flynn. Merely speaking to a Russian isn't anything nefarious. Most members of Congress and many in the exec branch do it routinely. I've been waiting to see what he said.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

You can't be serious?

Jeebus man, discussions of the leak of Flynn's call is all over the news.

Inform yourself: http://www.latimes.com/politics/was...concern-leaks-about-1490023461-htmlstory.html

And as to a copy, I've been patiently waiting to see a transcript. There have been a lot of accusation against Flynn. Merely speaking to a Russian isn't anything nefarious. Most members of Congress and many in the exec branch do it routinely. I've been waiting to see what he said.

Fern

Lying to the FBI is pretty nefarious though, wouldn't you agree? That's a felony after all and presumably you don't want the National Security Adviser committing felonies.

It's interesting to see how totally you've adopted the Republican narrative that the leaks here are the biggest story and not that the FBI is currently investigating an espionage case involving the White House.

 

[Fern]

when exactly was this? and once again, please provide some proof for your statements.

Welp, looks like I'm wrong.

I thought he was in trouble precisely for that. I.e., lying to the FBI during the vetting process. I can't find any info on vetting, so I now assume he wasn't.

Fern

 

[Fern]

I am suggesting its a possibility.

Then you don't believe Flynn is a Russian 'puppet' as some here claim?

Fern

 

[alien42]

You can't be serious?

Jeebus man, discussions of the leak of Flynn's call is all over the news.

Inform yourself: http://www.latimes.com/politics/was...concern-leaks-about-1490023461-htmlstory.html

And as to a copy, I've been patiently waiting to see a transcript. There have been a lot of accusation against Flynn. Merely speaking to a Russian isn't anything nefarious. Most members of Congress and many in the exec branch do it routinely. I've been waiting to see what he said.

Fern

you are resetting the bar there champ, your exact quote "Let's be optimistic that one day liberals will understanding that leaking recorded phone calls involving US citizens is illegal."

yet the recorded phone call wasn't actually leaked now was it?

you are playing the same bullshit word games that Trump does.

 

[Fern]

Lying to the FBI is pretty nefarious though, wouldn't you agree? That's a felony after all and presumably you don't want the National Security Adviser committing felonies.

It's interesting to see how totally you've adopted the Republican narrative that the leaks here are the biggest story and not that the FBI is currently investigating an espionage case involving the White House.

Re: Flynn's call:

FBI reviewed Flynn’s calls with Russian ambassador but found nothing illicit

The FBI in late December reviewed intercepts of communications between the Russian ambassador to the United States and retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn — national security adviser to then-President-elect Trump — but has not found any evidence of wrongdoing or illicit ties to the Russian government, U.S. officials said.

The calls were picked up as part of routine electronic surveillance of Russian officials and agents in the United States, which is one of the FBI’s responsibilities, according to the U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss counterintelligence operations.
-snip-

So, I'm not concerned about Flynn's discussions with the Russian ambassador.

I saw Comey yesterday saying the leak was a serious felony and that the FBI takes it seriously.

As far as to whether his 'lie' was nefarious or not, I'd like to see a copy of what was said before judging.

As to charges of "espionage", I have not heard of that ("espionage").

Of all the stuff being flung around lately, I do find the leaking most concerning because it gives the appearance that our I.C. has become politicized to the extent they engage in political assassinations against US politicians.

Fern

 

[Fern]

you are resetting the bar there champ, your exact quote "Let's be optimistic that one day liberals will understanding that leaking recorded phone calls involving US citizens is illegal."

yet the recorded phone call wasn't actually leaked now was it?

you are playing the same bullshit word games that Trump does.

Wut?

I watched some of the hearings yesterday, which did not involve Trump, and it was consistently referred to as a "leak".

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Re: Flynn's call:

So, I'm not concerned about Flynn's discussions with the Russian ambassador.

You're not concerned with the National Security Adviser lying to the FBI and putting himself at risk of blackmail by a hostile foreign power? Holy shit.

I saw Comey yesterday saying the leak was a serious felony and that the FBI takes it seriously.

As far as to whether his 'lie' was nefarious or not, I'd like to see a copy of what was said before judging.

As to charges of "espionage", I have not heard of that ("espionage").

Comey acknowledged that the FBI's investigation involves if there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the hackers responsible for attacking the DNC. That is by definition espionage. Never before in US history that I am aware of has the FBI had to investigate if the president or his associates were colluding with a hostile foreign power to tip our election in their favor. Isn't that by FAR the most concerning thing? I mean by about eight or nine country miles?

Of all the stuff being flung around lately, I do find the leaking most concerning because it gives the appearance that our I.C. has become politicized to the extent they engage in political assassinations against US politicians.

Fern

You think that notifying the country that the president has been notified that his national security adviser has been potentially compromised by a hostile foreign power and has done nothing is a 'political assassination'? What????

 

[ch33zw1z]

And Trump just loved the leaks during the campaign, so oh well...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-flip-flop-leaks-and-release-secret-informat/

boo fucking hoo

 

[cytg111]

Then you don't believe Flynn is a Russian 'puppet' as some here claim?

Fern

I believe the leaks are correct. The question is who is responsible for the leaks.

 

[fskimospy]

And Trump just loved the leaks during the campaign, so oh well...

The whole thing is just insane. It would be dereliction of duty NOT to leak that information. I mean think about it, the president was told that a cabinet level official was compromised and susceptible to blackmail by one of our primary strategic adversaries and did nothing for weeks.

That means:

1) He is incompetent to the extent that he's unable to rationally assess obvious security risks at the highest levels of government. The country needs to know this so that appropriate measures can be taken to minimize the damage.

2) He's in on it.

I can't think of a third explanation. Can you? I personally think it's #1 but that's still terrifying.

 

[alien42]

Wut?

I watched some of the hearings yesterday, which did not involve Trump, and it was consistently referred to as a "leak".

Fern

not all leaks are created equal. the point is that no confidential or secret information was leaked, what was leaked was very important for the American people to know.

i don't care who leaked it, be it an Obama holdover or a current member of the White House.

 

[Fern]

You're not concerned with the National Security Adviser lying to the FBI and putting himself at risk of blackmail by a hostile foreign power? Holy shit.

I've seen no evidence of anybody putting themselves at risk of being black mailed.

As I said before, I've waiting to see what was actually said before judging (or getting hysterical).

We don't don't know if the lie was of any substance. We do know that the FBI found nothing illicit. If the FBI found nothing illicit etc. I see no reasonable possibility of blackmail.

Comey acknowledged that the FBI's investigation involves if there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the hackers responsible for attacking the DNC. That is by definition espionage. Never before in US history that I am aware of has the FBI had to investigate if the president or his associates were colluding with a hostile foreign power to tip our election in their favor. Isn't that by FAR the most concerning thing? I mean by about eight or nine country miles?

1. I've seen Clapper testify that there is no evidence of collusion between WH and Russia.

2. I know of no definition of espionage that includes colluding to influence an election. It also seems that for espionage to be alleged there must be a flow of secret US info to Russia. I am unaware of any claims that occurred.

You think that notifying the country that the president has been notified that his national security adviser has been potentially compromised by a hostile foreign power and has done nothing is a 'political assassination'? What????

I think selectively releasing such info to destroy a person's political career is the very definition of political assassination.

I am unaware of anything that could be "compromising". Again, the FBI has already decided nothing illicit etc occurred.

Fern

 

[agent00f]

Let's be optimistic that one day liberals will understanding that leaking recorded phone calls involving US citizens is illegal.

Fern

Let's not pretend that's what you were talking about or even care about breaking the law as long as it benefits Trump.

And yet the FBI had vetted him and cleared him.

Fern

Rather ominous that we learn the national security adviser is a lying russian stooge from some legit patriot when Comey or the admin doesn't see a problem with it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Flynn, specifically

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...urkish-client-during-trump-campaign/98917184/

No worries, he's straight legit

 

[fskimospy]

I've seen no evidence of anybody putting themselves at risk of being black mailed.

As I said before, I've waiting to see what was actually said before judging (or getting hysterical).

We don't don't know if the lie was of any substance. We do know that the FBI found nothing illicit. If the FBI found nothing illicit etc. I see no reasonable possibility of blackmail.

That makes absolutely no sense. We know he lied to the FBI which put both his job and his freedom at risk. That is the potential for blackmail there and that much should be obvious.

Also, the FBI didn't ask him if he chatted on the phone that one day, they asked him if he had any contact. We know that was a lie based on the evidence but that just raises the question if there were other conversations that weren't intercepted. All we know is that Flynn lied about his overall contact.

1. I've seen Clapper testify that there is no evidence of collusion between WH and Russia.

Comey literally testified yesterday that it is under active investigation. The FBI clearly believes there is potential for collusion there.

You don't know what evidence there is until the investigation is complete. I mean come on.

2. I know of no definition of espionage that includes colluding to influence an election. It also seems that for espionage to be alleged there must be a flow of secret US info to Russia. I am unaware of any claims that occurred.

If you believe that a political campaign colluding with a hostile foreign power to put that person in the White House would not lead to secret US information flowing to that power I simply don't know what to say because that's facepalm worthy.

Again...come on.

I think selectively releasing such info to destroy a person's political career is the very definition of political assassination.

I am unaware of anything that could be "compromising". Again, the FBI has already decided nothing illicit etc occurred.

Fern

I assume I cleared that up above and you now agree that commission of a potential felony is easily sufficient.

 

[agent00f]

Thats debatable I think, cause if you've crossed that mental barrier, that I need to invoke my inner patriot, then where is the line in the sand really?
That being said, this is a text-book example of how a certian someone incites riot and unrest and from the looks of it you are playing into it. The leaks *must* be found cause to my mind there is a good chance that its not "corrupt IC staff"

The line in the sand for patriotism is where people prioritize country over self/etc. Rather obviously heroic to make some personal sacrifice for that greater good.

You can tell the traitors who prioritize party leadership first, eg "don't mind that russian stooges are taking over the gov cus leaks are illegal".

 

[Jhhnn]

I've seen no evidence of anybody putting themselves at risk of being black mailed.

As I said before, I've waiting to see what was actually said before judging (or getting hysterical).

We don't don't know if the lie was of any substance. We do know that the FBI found nothing illicit. If the FBI found nothing illicit etc. I see no reasonable possibility of blackmail.



1. I've seen Clapper testify that there is no evidence of collusion between WH and Russia.

2. I know of no definition of espionage that includes colluding to influence an election. It also seems that for espionage to be alleged there must be a flow of secret US info to Russia. I am unaware of any claims that occurred.



I think selectively releasing such info to destroy a person's political career is the very definition of political assassination.

I am unaware of anything that could be "compromising". Again, the FBI has already decided nothing illicit etc occurred.

Fern

If Flynn's conversations were so innocuous, why hasn't the White House released a full transcript to clear the air?

Political assassination? The Benghazi hearings were political assassination. All the raving over Hillary's emails was political assassination. What the Repub propaganda machine made out of hacked DNC & Podesta emails was political assassination.

 

[Fern]

That makes absolutely no sense. We know he lied to the FBI which put both his job and his freedom at risk. That is the potential for blackmail there and that much should be obvious.

No, we do not know that he put his "freedom at risk".

I'd like to see the transcript, or a charge or indictment before claiming he's subject to a prison sentence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...63470bf0401_story.html?utm_term=.a1b3c4cbe4fc

The Jan. 24 interview potentially puts Flynn in legal jeopardy. Lying to the FBI is a felony offense. But several officials said it is unclear whether prosecutors would attempt to bring a case, in part because Flynn may parse the definition of the word “sanctions.” He also followed his denial to the FBI by saying he couldn’t recall all of the conversation, officials said.

Several officials said that while sanctions were discussed between Flynn and Kislyak in the December call, they did not see evidence in the intercept that Flynn had an “intent” to convey an explicit promise to take action after the inauguration.

“It wasn’t about sanctions. It was about the 35 guys who were thrown out,” Flynn told the Daily Caller in an interview just before he resigned and published Tuesday. “So that’s what it turned out to be. It was basically, ‘Look, I know this happened. We’ll review everything.’ I never said anything such as, ‘We’re going to review sanctions,’ or anything like that.”

Again, I need to see the transcript. Not sure why that is not forthcoming since the FBI has determined that nothing illegal, or even illicit, occurred.

If it's as Flynn has said I see zero opportunity for blackmail.

Fern

 

[agent00f]

If Flynn's conversations were so innocuous, why hasn't the White House released a full transcript to clear the air?

Political assassination? The Benghazi hearings were political assassination. All the raving over Hillary's emails was political assassination. What the Repub propaganda machine made out of hacked DNC & Podesta emails was political assassination.

Obviously when you're going to be the national security adviser and obama announces sanctions, your first response is call the russians to make sure things are going to be square. It's what any conservative would do.

 

[Fern]

If Flynn's conversations were so innocuous, why hasn't the White House released a full transcript to clear the air?

Well, since Comey is now claiming an ongoing investigation I suppose that's thereason the transcript hasn't been released. Active investigation and all that.

I am intensely curious about what was discussed.

Political assassination? The Benghazi hearings were political assassination. All the raving over Hillary's emails was political assassination. What the Repub propaganda machine made out of hacked DNC & Podesta emails was political assassination.

Nah. That's just typical political fighting. Accusing your opponent of illegal/improper conduct is not "political assassination".

Fern