Obama had Trumps phone tapped?

[agent00f]

I have to agree in part. Nobody can remain lucky for 70 years, but at the same time his behaviour in that time has been atrocious, ignorant, braggadocios, and pretty much every single synonym of narcissistic. Yet he remains supposedly rich, supposedly business savvy. I dunno, maybe he is some sort of business idiot savant, or more like a marketing idiot savant, because he rarely if ever delivers on promise, just the sizzle, no steak.

If you inherit Trump level money/real-estate and run father's business via nepotism it's almost impossible to become poor. Trump's one legit talent is in getting poor people to think he's some of self-made man, but in fairness it's something americans are prone to believe. Witness any number of youtube channels for rich kids and their toys (often cars), and their subscribers often legit believe the laundering business their parents set up for them ("movie production", etc) is their real source of income.

 

[zinfamous]

I have to agree in part. Nobody can remain lucky for 70 years, but at the same time his behaviour in that time has been atrocious, ignorant, braggadocios, and pretty much every single synonym of narcissistic. Yet he remains supposedly rich, supposedly business savvy. I dunno, maybe he is some sort of business idiot savant, or more like a marketing idiot savant, because he rarely if ever delivers on promise, just the sizzle, no steak.

Remember when Trump tried to rob the already jobless rustbelters after the financial crisis with his 2009 Multi-Level Marketing scam (aka: pyramid scheme), The "Trump network"?

Pepperidge Farm remembers!

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...ulti_level_marketing_companies_felt_like.html

 

[Sea Ray]

Really? Where can you point to any evidence or statements that Flynns phone was tapped by credible people? I ask seriously as I have seen no such evidence.

So you're denying that Flynn's call was tapped? Really?

 

[Sea Ray]

It's bullshit. If they tapped Kislyak, they tapped everybody he talked to. It's not like they just listen to one side of the conversation.

You raise a great question. Did they tap Flynn or the Russian ambassador? If you know the answer then you know classified information. Sen Tom Cotton said last night that he could not say whether the Russian Ambassador was the subject of a phone tap because such information is classified.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/03/...tton-trump-tower-michael-flynn-russia-wiretap

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So you're denying that Flynn's call was tapped? Really?

No. You made a definitive statement that it was. I am asking you for the proof to that claim since I haven't seen it. I know the Russian Ambassadors calls were monitored and that Flynn was captured through that. I have seen no evidence Flynn himself was directly tapped.

I'm assuming you can provide the link to that evidence given the certainty of your statements correct?

 

[soundforbjt]

So you're denying that Flynn's call was tapped? Really?

Yes. How it this hard to understand? If I tap your phone and your dad calls you, I hear both sides on the conversation, I don't need to tap his phone if you call him or he calls you.

 

[Sea Ray]

reliable sources are important, not about to click on that garbage.

it has been pointed out repeatedly over the past few days that Kislyak was being monitored at all times and everyone who contacted him was recorded.

that isn't the same thing as wire tapping Trump Tower.

do you really not understand the difference?

just wait till the info on Kremlin money going to Trump and his campaign comes out. who will you blame then?

If what you say is a fact then why didn't Sen Cotton say so when asked last night? Sounds like a pretty simple answer to me, but he couldn't confirm or deny it due to it being classified. Since that's the case, you can't confirm it either. Sounds like you've got something to "understand".

 

[Sea Ray]

No. You made a definitive statement that it was. I am asking you for the proof to that claim since I haven't seen it. I know the Russian Ambassadors calls were monitored and that Flynn was captured through that. I have seen no evidence Flynn himself was directly tapped.

I'm assuming you can provide the link to that evidence given the certainty of your statements correct?

The proof that he was tapped is that there's a transcript of the conversation that was leaked. We know that exists. It's what got Flynn in hot water. There's no way a transcript could be written unless the line was tapped.

 

[Sea Ray]

Yes. How it this hard to understand? If I tap your phone and your dad calls you, I hear both sides on the conversation, I don't need to tap his phone if you call him or he calls you.

But we don't know who was being tapped. How hard is that for you to understand?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The proof that he was tapped is that there's a transcript of the conversation that was leaked. We know that exists. It's what got Flynn in hot water. There's no way a transcript could be written unless the line was tapped.

That is not proof he himself was tapped. It's equally plausible, actually far more likely, that he was intercepted as part of signals intelligence while the Ambassador was being monitored whom he made repeated calls with. It takes far less to monitor a foreign official than an American citizen.

You just posted a link that claimed saying the Russian Ambassador was tapped was classified. How can you say with such certainty that Flynn was in light of that exact same statement.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

But we don't know who was being tapped. How hard is that for you to understand?

Yet you said Flynn was with absolute certainty. How hard is it for you to understand your statement here is directly in conflict with your previous claim?

 

[Sea Ray]

That is not proof he himself was tapped. It's equally plausible, actually far more likely, that he was intercepted as part of signals intelligence while the Ambassador was being monitored whom he made repeated calls with. It takes far less to monitor a foreign official than an American citizen.

You just posted a link that claimed saying the Russian Ambassador was tapped was classified. How can you say with such certainty that Flynn was in light of that exact same statement.

You must not have followed this whole thread. I said earlier there is a question as to who was tapped. I don't know who was tapped. What I do know is that Flynn's conversation with the Russian Ambassador was tapped.

 

[fskimospy]

But we don't know who was being tapped. How hard is that for you to understand?

It is frankly baffling to me that you keep trying to push this nonsense. We know for a fact the Russian ambassador's phone was tapped because the Russian ambassador's phone is ALWAYS tapped. This is an open secret. The idea that you're trying to spread uncertainty where we don't know which one was tapped might work inside the right wing media bubble but it's laughable nonsense everywhere else. Your only possible escape is if both people had active wiretaps on them, but that's simply not a very likely answer.

The overwhelmingly likely answer is that the call was intercepted due to the Russian ambassador's communications being monitored, as they always are. This is just common sense.

 

[Sea Ray]

Yet you said Flynn was with absolute certainty. How hard is it for you to understand your statement here is directly in conflict with your previous claim?

I said with absolute certainty that Flynn's conversation with the Russian Ambassador was tapped. How hard is that for you to understand? How many more times do I have to write that?

 

[Sea Ray]

It is frankly baffling to me that you keep trying to push this nonsense. We know for a fact the Russian ambassador's phone was tapped because the Russian ambassador's phone is ALWAYS tapped. This is an open secret. The idea that you're trying to spread uncertainty where we don't know which one was tapped might work inside the right wing media bubble but it's laughable nonsense everywhere else. Your only possible escape is if both people had active wiretaps on them, but that's simply not a very likely answer.

The overwhelmingly likely answer is that the call was intercepted due to the Russian ambassador's communications being monitored, as they always are. This is just common sense.

How do we know with absolute certainty that the Russian Ambassador's phone is always tapped? Sen Cotton doesn't know that. You know more than a guy on the intelligence committee

 

[MomentsofSanity]

I said with absolute certainty that Flynn's conversation with the Russian Ambassador was tapped. How hard is that for you to understand? How many more times do I have to write that?

Uh no. You didn't. You said we know for a fact that Trump Tower lines were tapped and you cited Flynn's conversation as that evidence. Your exact words.

Newt Gingrich last night said something very interesting. We all know for a fact that Gen Flynn was wiretapped. What we didn't know until last night was that Flynn was using a phone at Trump Tower when that happened. So now we know for a fact that Trump Tower lines were wire tapped. What we don't know is by who. I'd say it had to be either by our gov't or by the Russians.

http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2...ation-with-kislyak-wiretapped-at-trump-tower/

That statement is bullshit. What you are saying right now is in direct conflict to that statement. This is not a matter of interpretation.

 

[fskimospy]

How do we know with absolute certainty that the Russian Ambassador's phone is always tapped? Sen Cotton doesn't know that. You know more than a guy on the intelligence committee

Cotton said he couldn't say because it was classified, not that he didn't know. Are you even reading your own links? As for whether or not we tap the Russian ambassador's phone, the Russian foreign minister acknowledges that the ambassador's calls are routinely monitored and has said as much publicly.

This is also reported in by the Washington Post, which you considered a credible source earlier in this thread:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...-0811pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.b35d639f2d8b

Intelligence analysts began to search for clues that could help explain Putin’s move. The search turned up Kislyak’s communications, which the FBI routinely monitors, and the phone call in question with Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general with years of intelligence experience.

Are you prepared to acknowledge that the overwhelmingly likely answer is that the ambassador was the one being wiretapped now? Enough with this nonsense.

 

[Sea Ray]

Uh no. You didn't. You said we know for a fact that Trump Tower lines were tapped and you cited Flynn's conversation as that evidence. Your exact words.



That statement is bullshit. What you are saying right now is in direct conflict to that statement. This is not a matter of interpretation.

We know for a fact that a call made from Trump Tower was tapped. Does that make you happy?

 

[Sea Ray]

Cotton said he couldn't say because it was classified, not that he didn't know. Are you even reading your own links? As for whether or not we tap the Russian ambassador's phone, the Russian foreign minister acknowledges that the ambassador's calls are routinely monitored and has said as much publicly.

This is also reported in by the Washington Post, which you considered a credible source earlier in this thread:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...-0811pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.b35d639f2d8b



Are you prepared to acknowledge that the overwhelmingly likely answer is that the ambassador was the one being wiretapped now? Enough with this nonsense.

Are you even reading my posts? I clearly stated that Cotton couldn't comment one way or another. I said:

Sounds like a pretty simple answer to me, but he couldn't confirm or deny it due to it being classified.

Now you want me to take what's written in the very liberal WaPost over what a Senator is willing to say on the record? Forget it. You can't take that to the bank.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

We know for a fact that a call made from Trump Tower was tapped. Does that make you happy?

Again. You have no proof where the call originated. So again your statement is an assumption which you are trying to assert as fact.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you even reading my posts? I clearly stated that Cotton couldn't comment one way or another. I said:

Sounds like a pretty simple answer to me, but he couldn't confirm or deny it due to it being classified.

Then you said this:

How do we know with absolute certainty that the Russian Ambassador's phone is always tapped? Sen Cotton doesn't know that. You know more than a guy on the intelligence committee

You have no way of saying Cotton doesn't know that, this was a false statement.

Now you want me to take what's written in the very liberal WaPost over what a Senator is willing to say on the record? Forget it. You can't take that to the bank.

Hahaha, when you thought the Washington Post agreed with you it was fine, then when it tells you things you don't want to believe it's suddenly unreliable. Cotton didn't say one way or the other whether the ambassador's phone was tapped. Both the Russian Foreign Minister and the Washington Post said it is.

Again, try and put aside ideology and think about this logically. The answer is not hard to arrive at.

 

[Sea Ray]

Again. You have no proof where the call originated. So again your statement is an assumption which you are trying to assert as fact.

Fair enough. Newt Gingrich went on record as saying that but perhaps he's lying

 

[zinfamous]

So you're denying that Flynn's call was tapped? Really?

Are you still confused about who's phone was actually tapped? Do you understand the gulf of difference, especially legal, that this little detail entails?

 

[zinfamous]

Fair enough. Newt Gingrich went on record as saying that but perhaps he's lying

It's Newt. If his lips are moving....

 

[Sea Ray]

Then you said this:



You have no way of saying Cotton doesn't know that, this was a false statement.



Hahaha, when you thought the Washington Post agreed with you it was fine, then when it tells you things you don't want to believe it's suddenly unreliable. Cotton didn't say one way or the other whether the ambassador's phone was tapped. Both the Russian Foreign Minister and the Washington Post said it is.

Again, try and put aside ideology and think about this logically. The answer is not hard to arrive at.

You're just playing the gotcha game but it gets us nowhere. We don't know what Cotton knows because the info is classified so you can't say with certainty who tapped the phone call between Flynn and the Ambassador